Do the Jets not understand how Comp picks work?

[SayNoToDMC]

Who give a sh*t? Idzik ruined these for me, I still have nightmares about our 2014 draft

The only player acquired through him many compensatory picks that's had any positive impact on our franchise, did it breaking somebody's jaw in the locker room. I'll take Forte

[j4jets]

16 hours ago, Shockwave said:

Not signing FA's obviously feels terrible in the moment. But we are starved for draft picks and theres only ONE consistent way to accumulate draft picks. That is to accumulate compensatory picks every year.  

Long term the best and most successful teams do it: The Patriots, Broncos, Ravens, Bengals. Even the Browns who are usually clueless are going to look amazing when they go into next years draft with 10 draft picks. Please see OTC chart in link. 

http://overthecap.com/compensatory-draft-picks-cancellation-chart/

This is definetly a major flaw in our FO's thinking. Next year well be asking ourselves if Matt Forte, Mclendon, and Jarvis Jenkins were worth a 4th rounder, 5th rounder, and 6th rounder. 

Keep in mind:

1- you can trade Comp picks next year. 

2- You can still acquire players and get comp picks. The Jets could have signed CJ anderson, Josh Hil, Khiry Robinson,  RG3 or any cut player and still would have received the above picks. 

Idzik couldn't draft for sh*t. But this is the one place he was clearly better then this FO. Going into a draft with 10-12 draft picks is something we will likely not see again as this FO just doesn't get this part of the game. 

I do not think Antonio Allen's contract is a "non qualifying" one. If I recall correctly, any contract above the vets minimum is a part of the consideration. AA received 800k. Vets minimum for 4+ years of experience is 760k. That should free up a 3rd rounder for Snacks.

But I agree, I wasn't jumping out of my chair when I saw we picked up couple of barely average players and dinged on our comp picks. Either way, the NFL gets to decide if a team is deserving or not and since the formula has never been made public, it leads me to believe the NFL can issue a comp pick if it feels a team is deserving of one.

Lets all hope we lose Fitzpatrick. That'll net us two 3rd rounders. My hope is that a team picks up Darrin Walls and Leger Douzable and pay them more than vets minimum. Pipedream, I know, but one can always hope.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

The only way to really answer a question like this is to also post a head to head comparison of the productivity of the veteran players who were brought in that sacrificed a comp pick. Unless I've been completely missing something over the past several years, the Pats and Broncos have invested pretty heavily in acquiring aging free agents to make their perennial runs. Success breeds success. Once your ship is righted and well-stocked, every option for replenishment is made that much easier. Bad teams under bad management are forever digging out of a hole, overspending, coming up short due to risk-taking to be competitive, and then cycling through the same sorry process all over again. And these are teams with high draft picks, which should be worth far more than a few bottom-feeding comp picks. Somewhere in the process you have to get at least a little lucky, but you also have to hold to a roster building strategy over years, which requires stable, smart management.

[Shockwave]

7 hours ago, SayNoToDMC said:

Who give a sh*t? Idzik ruined these for me, I still have nightmares about our 2014 draft

The only player acquired through him many compensatory picks that's had any positive impact on our franchise, did it breaking somebody's jaw in the locker room. I'll take Forte

[Embrace the Suck]

When you have a deep and talented roster you can let guys walk and not sign guys because backups step up, which enables you to play the compensatory game. Unfortunately we don't have a deep and talented roster. We don't have depth that can step up because we've been crapping out in the draft for the most part for some time now.

[Gastineau Lives]

18 hours ago, Shockwave said:

Def Fair point. 

Idzik absolutely had the right idea to build a team but just drafted horribly.  Mac did great last year with his picks IMO. Besides trading for Fitz/Marshall Mouldin was a great grab in the 3rd. While we don't know how good Harrison and Simon are he addressed anticipated needs a year early. If you look at his style and his words I think well be looking at a LT, C, and CB early draft picks. But thats a separate topic. 

I would love to see Mac go into the draft with 10 picks. With a tough schedule this year it might be a down year. You really want those reinforcements to be ready as our roster is one of the oldest in the NFL. 

I guess you missed the part of the thread where you were shown 157 comp picks and not one was worth passing on an established player at a position of need for your team.

[Gastineau Lives]

By the way, does anyone have a chart of the free agent signings that cost their team a fifth round comp pick that helped the signing team? If you can include a chart with the incredible players that those comp picks were going to be used on, that would be a help, too.

To sit here and assert that certain GM's don't help their teams with free agent signings so that they can acquire comp picks and that is a winning formula is mind boggling to me.

 

[Gastineau Lives]

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000567319

 

NFL's all-time undrafted team

 

WINNING TEAMS SIGN UNDRAFTED FREE AGENTS. All you have to do is sign twenty of these guys a year and bingo.

[Thor99]

6 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

By the way, does anyone have a chart of the free agent signings that cost their team a fifth round comp pick that helped the signing team? If you can include a chart with the incredible players that those comp picks were going to be used on, that would be a help, too.

To sit here and assert that certain GM's don't help their teams with free agent signings so that they can acquire comp picks and that is a winning formula is mind boggling to me.

 

This is basically what Idzik did. It got everyone fired.  

 

 

[Shockwave]

6 hours ago, j4jets said:

I do not think Antonio Allen's contract is a "non qualifying" one. If I recall correctly, any contract above the vets minimum is a part of the consideration. AA received 800k. Vets minimum for 4+ years of experience is 760k. That should free up a 3rd rounder for Snacks.

But I agree, I wasn't jumping out of my chair when I saw we picked up couple of barely average players and dinged on our comp picks. Either way, the NFL gets to decide if a team is deserving or not and since the formula has never been made public, it leads me to believe the NFL can issue a comp pick if it feels a team is deserving of one.

Lets all hope we lose Fitzpatrick. That'll net us two 3rd rounders. My hope is that a team picks up Darrin Walls and Leger Douzable and pay them more than vets minimum. Pipedream, I know, but one can always hope.

That would be great if Allen counted. I actually was pretty disappointed he signed elsewhere. He was super cheap and cost nothing. He has speed and covered tight ends well. I was hoping for a Mark Barron like conversion to LB for him but we are only into slow guys at that position. 

46 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

The only way to really answer a question like this is to also post a head to head comparison of the productivity of the veteran players who were brought in that sacrificed a comp pick. Unless I've been completely missing something over the past several years, the Pats and Broncos have invested pretty heavily in acquiring aging free agents to make their perennial runs. Success breeds success. Once your ship is righted and well-stocked, every option for replenishment is made that much easier. Bad teams under bad management are forever digging out of a hole, overspending, coming up short due to risk-taking to be competitive, and then cycling through the same sorry process all over again. And these are teams with high draft picks, which should be worth far more than a few bottom-feeding comp picks. Somewhere in the process you have to get at least a little lucky, but you also have to hold to a roster building strategy over years, which requires stable, smart management.

Def thought provoking response. 

To me this conversation is extremely simple. 

1. The whole game in the NFL is getting cheap young talent with upside. You may only hit on a Enunwa, Brady, Beachum, Antonio Brown on a small percentage of draft picks but even cheap backups that fill in as an adequate backup for 500K are extremely valuable as they may not count against your 52. When you have 53 players on your team signing depth players like Jarvis Jones for 2-3m is just bad business. Because when you have depth guys making that amount how can you pay all your studs? Even paying backups 1.5 is just stupid. Paying guys near 30 with low ceilings on the downside of their career? It makes no sense. That is why getting as many draft picks as possible will always be the name of the game. 

2. Your going to lose players to FA at some point. Everyone does. At the same time successful teams rarely are big players in FA. So many FA's bust. The Good teams just avoid paying for crazy contracts and will take Free Draft picks every time. How? Because they had extra draft picks ready to step up to be that backup/Starter for the guy that just left. Obviously this is a common football theme so I know this isn't breaking news. 

Let this be my last responce in the thread - Ill give you an example of how the Pats game the system. And why we should hope MAC eventually employs this system. Because honestly he still has no QB --and a low amount of draft picks PLUS no QB will get anyone fired sooner then later. 

Lets look at how the Jets Handled Mo Wilkerson vs the Pats handling of Chandler Jones. 

I think its safe to say by Woody's comments and most peoples comments that the Jets knew they could not sign Mo Wilkerson for some time now. The Patriots knew they couldn't sign Jones too. 

The Non Contending Jets decided to hold onto Mo Wilkerson instead of trading him. They played their other star at OLB in Sheldon Richardson which obviously was a stubborn/dumb move. Then Mo Broke his leg. We franchised him which basically has suffocated all types of movement, trades, and FA. Was it worth it? All for a possible second round pick? I guess well see. There certainly is a chance that we get no trading partner, he plays out next year and leaves for free. If that happens it will be an extremely simple minded stubborn collection of thoughts for the Jets - But lets see. 

The Contending Patriots with a 40 year old QB went the opposite route. They traded Chandler Jones for a second round pick and avoided the Jets Mess. They also got a player in Cooper that still has upside but likely will leave next year in FA which will get them a comp pick. They then signed Chris Long who will also likely play well and get them a comp pick. The Whole process will likely net them 3 draft picks.... They did a similar move with the Revis and basically ensuring themselves a 3rd round pick upon signing his contract. Like literally before the guy joined the team they already thought ahead to how he would get them a draft pick. Thats what they do. 

I think Mac is a really smart guy. I think he has a few of these checkmate type moves in him. Perhaps hes just in a bad situation now where he's screwed by the last Gm's lack of success drafting. But Long term for him to have any shot at maintaining his job hes going to need to have some large draft classes. And the easiest way to get free draft picks is playing the comp pick game all the other GM's play. 

 

 

[Gastineau Lives]

3 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

That would be great if Allen counted. I actually was pretty disappointed he signed elsewhere. He was super cheap and cost nothing. He has speed and covered tight ends well. I was hoping for a Mark Barron like conversion to LB for him but we are only into slow guys at that position. 

Def thought provoking response. 

To me this conversation is extremely simple. 

1. The whole game in the NFL is getting cheap young talent with upside. You may only hit on a Enunwa, Brady, Beachum, Antonio Brown on a small percentage of draft picks but even cheap backups that fill in as an adequate backup for 500K are extremely valuable as they may not count against your 52. When you have 53 players on your team signing depth players like Jarvis Jones for 2-3m is just bad business. Because when you have depth guys making that amount how can you pay all your studs? Even paying backups 1.5 is just stupid. Paying guys near 30 with low ceilings on the downside of their career? It makes no sense. That is why getting as many draft picks as possible will always be the name of the game. 

2. Your going to lose players to FA at some point. Everyone does. At the same time successful teams rarely are big players in FA. So many FA's bust. The Good teams just avoid paying for crazy contracts and will take Free Draft picks every time. How? Because they had extra draft picks ready to step up to be that backup/Starter for the guy that just left. Obviously this is a common football theme so I know this isn't breaking news. 

Let this be my last responce in the thread - Ill give you an example of how the Pats game the system. And why we should hope MAC eventually employs this system. Because honestly he still has no QB --and a low amount of draft picks PLUS no QB will get anyone fired sooner then later. 

Lets look at how the Jets Handled Mo Wilkerson vs the Pats handling of Chandler Jones. 

I think its safe to say by Woody's comments and most peoples comments that the Jets knew they could not sign Mo Wilkerson for some time now. The Patriots knew they couldn't sign Jones too. 

The Non Contending Jets decided to hold onto Mo Wilkerson instead of trading him. They played their other star at OLB in Sheldon Richardson which obviously was a stubborn/dumb move. Then Mo Broke his leg. We franchised him which basically has suffocated all types of movement, trades, and FA. Was it worth it? All for a possible second round pick? I guess well see. There certainly is a chance that we get no trading partner, he plays out next year and leaves for free. If that happens it will be an extremely simple minded stubborn collection of thoughts for the Jets - But lets see. 

The Contending Patriots with a 40 year old QB went the opposite route. They traded Chandler Jones for a second round pick and avoided the Jets Mess. They also got a player in Cooper that still has upside but likely will leave next year in FA which will get them a comp pick. They then signed Chris Long who will also likely play well and get them a comp pick. The Whole process will likely net them 3 draft picks.... They did a similar move with the Revis and basically ensuring themselves a 3rd round pick upon signing his contract. Like literally before the guy joined the team they already thought ahead to how he would get them a draft pick. Thats what they do. 

I think Mac is a really smart guy. I think he has a few of these checkmate type moves in him. Perhaps hes just in a bad situation now where he's screwed by the last Gm's lack of success drafting. But Long term for him to have any shot at maintaining his job hes going to need to have some large draft classes. And the easiest way to get free draft picks is playing the comp pick game all the other GM's play. 

 

 

I love how Tom Brady becomes "a 40 year old QB" in this post.

[Shockwave]

49 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

I guess you missed the part of the thread where you were shown 157 comp picks and not one was worth passing on an established player at a position of need for your team.

Thats simply incorrect. 

1- Please describe your established players. Sure Forte is established but good lord don't tell me your talking about Jarvis Jenkins and Mclendon. Guys near 30 that barely visited any other NFL teams? These guys are JAG rotational players that will play a low percentage of snaps for us and will be out of the NFL once these contracts are done. 

2-Of those 157 Comp picks there are a TON of players that EVERY NFL team would take before your favorite players Mclendon and Jarvis Jones. However most of the players above don't even count on against teams starting 52. Im not even talking about past comp picks like Tom Brady etc - Im talking about players on that list that will play just as many meaningful snacks or more as your boys Jenkins/Mclendon. 

You/someone posted the last few years of comp picks which is a fairly small sample since some of those picks can't even be judged yet. Ive posted several pro bowlers and good players throughout the thread but since you have trouble reading post ill try posting an article or Pictures for you. 

[Gastineau Lives]

1 minute ago, Shockwave said:

Thats simply incorrect. 

1- Please describe your established players. Sure Forte is established but good lord don't tell me your talking about Jarvis Jones and Mclendon. Guys near 30 that barely visited any other NFL teams? These guys are JAG rotational players that will play a low percentage of snaps for us and will be out of the NFL once these contracts are done. 

2-Of those 157 Comp picks there are a TON of players that EVERY NFL team would take before your favorite players Mclendon and Jarvis Jones. However most of the players above don't even count on against teams starting 52. Im not even talking about past comp picks like Tom Brady etc - Im talking about players on that list that will play just as many meaningful snacks or more as your boys Jones/Mclendon. 

You/someone posted the last few years of comp picks which is a fairly small sample since some of those picks can't even be judged yet. Ive posted several pro bowlers and good players throughout the thread but since you have trouble reading post ill try posting an article or Pictures for you. 

So, who do you like in the sixth this year? Can we get that guy with our regular ol' sixth rounder or is someone going to snatch him up?

[Shockwave]

4 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

So, who do you like in the sixth this year? Can we get that guy with our regular ol' sixth rounder or is someone going to snatch him up?

Compensatory picks are between the 3rd-7th round. Please learn to read. 

[Gastineau Lives]

1 minute ago, Shockwave said:

Compensatory picks are between the 3rd-7th round. Please learn to read. 

So, you're saying we missed out on a third rounder because of Jarvis Jenkins?? Now I'm pissed!  I apologize for everything I've typed so far.

[Shockwave]

Its actually pretty shocking how little intelligent football dudes know about the topic. I thought it would be a discussion about strategy but really its become a pretty boring debate on how "Draft picks are good" and "What is a comp pick". 

Im done replying in this thread but thanks for the responses. The best player of our lifetimes was a comp pick as well as many HOF.  Draft picks are definitely a good thing and even if they don't "Boom" getting guys like Quincy Enunwa who didn't even count against our salary cap last year is a MILLION times better then signing a JAG like Jarvis Jones to play rotational snaps for 3.5m yearly. 

 

Quote

Most impactful NFL compensatory picks of all time

Andy Fenelon

NFL.com

Each year, when the NFL announces its compensatory draft picks distribution, it receives little fanfare. No blaring headlines, more chirping on social media than chatter. But maybe it should receive more attention, considering the impact past compensatory picks have made in the NFL. There is already one former compensatory pick in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, and another three looking like they'll be enshrined one day. There is also a threesome of Super Bowl MVPs, and a multitude of big-game heroes. We compiled a list of the 18 most impactful NFL compensatory picks of all time.

18 Photos Total

 

 

• 

  Mike Roemer/Associated Press 

  18. Aaron Brooks (Green Bay, Round 4, Pick No. 131 overall, 1999)

  A typical pick-and-store quarterback choice of Ron Wolf in Green Bay, Brooks was traded to the Saints in 2000 and went on to start 90 career NFL games.

•  

  Elaine Thompson/Associated Press 

  17. David Tyree (N.Y. Giants, Round 6, Pick No. 211 overall, 2003)

  Tyree didn't have a great NFL career, but this list is about impact. He made a Pro Bowl as a special teams player, but what he's most known for is the miraculous helmet catch in Super Bowl XLII that will go down as one of the greatest plays in Super Bowl history. It also helped give the Giants an improbable victory over the previously undefeated Patriots.

•  

  Ric Tapia/NFL 

  16. Malcolm Smith (Seahawks, Round 7, Pick No. 242 overall, 2011)

  Smith wasn't even invited to the NFL Scouting Combine but he showed enough at his pro day (at a school where his NFL head coach recruited him) to get drafted late. His interception return for a touchdown in Super Bowl XLVIII earned him MVP honors.

•  

  Ben Liebenberg/NFL 

  15. Ahmad Bradshaw (N.Y. Giants, Round 7, Pick No. 250 overall, 2007)

  Bradshaw was not only on two Super Bowl-winning teams, he was the leading rusher in each game. He rushed for more than 1,000 yards twice with the Giants and has 35 career touchdowns.

•  

  Tony Gutierrez/Associated Press 

  14. Tim Ruddy (Miami, Round 2, Pick No. 65 overall, 1994)

  Ruddy, Dan Marino's center for most of the Hall of Fame quarterback's career, started 140 of 156 career games with the Dolphins. He made his only Pro Bowl in 2000.

•  

  Tony Gutierrez/Associated Press 

  13. Josh Sitton (Green Bay, Round 4, Pick No. 135 overall, 2008)

  Sitton has been a full-time starter with the Packers since his second season, starting all but two games. He made the Pro Bowl in 2012 and 2014 and was a second-team All-Pro member in 2013.

•  

  Roy Dabner/Associated Press 

  12. Pat Tillman (Arizona, Round 7, Pick No. 226 overall, 1998)

  Leaving Tillman off this list would feel a little un-American. But he was a good player for the Cardinals in his own right. Unfortunately, his career -- and life -- ended way too early.

•  

  Michael Conroy/Associated Press 

  11. Antoine Bethea (Indianapolis, Round 6, Pick No. 207 overall, 2006)

  Bethea has started every game he's appeared in since entering the NFL and hasn't missed a start in six consecutive seasons. He's versatile (can play both safety positions) and supports the run. He has been to two Pro Bowls, seven postseasons, and owns a Super Bowl ring.

•  

  Brian Blanco/Associated Press 

  10. Pierre Garcon (Indianapolis, Round 6, Pick No. 205 overall, 2008)

  Usually when players go from being a No. 2 at their position to No. 1 with another team, they aren't quite up to the challenge. Garcon is the exception. He has thrived as Robert Griffin's primary target in Washington, catching 113 passes in 2013, tops in the NFL and the 17th most in league history.

•  

  Nick Wass/Associated Press 

  9. Derrick Alexander (Cleveland, Round 1, Pick No. 29 overall, 1994)

  In nine NFL seasons (with four teams), Alexander was a consistently productive player, a deep threat who hauled in 417 career passes for almost 7,000 yards and 40 touchdowns.

•  

  Stephan Savoia/Associated Press 

  8. Mike Vrabel (Pittsburgh, Round 3, Pick No. 91 overall, 1997)

  One of the most versatile players in modern NFL history, Vrabel moved from defensive end in college to outside linebacker, then inside, and even lined up at tight end in goal-line situations, in the pros. He played 14 seasons in the NFL, eight with the Patriots where he won three Super Bowls. He was an all-pro in 2007.

•  

  Morry Gash/Associated Press 

  7. Matt Hasselbeck (Green Bay, Round 6, Pick No. 187 overall, 1998)

  After sitting behind Brett Favre for two seasons, Hasselbeck was traded to Seattle, where he led the Seahawks to six playoff appearances and a Super Bowl, and became the franchise's all-time leading passer. He was also voted to three Pro Bowls.

•  

  John Froschauer/Associated Press 

  6. Marques Colston (New Orleans, Round 7, Pick No. 252 overall, 2006)

  All Colston did to start his career was set the record for most receptions (168) in a player's first two seasons. He has seven receptions for 83 yards in the Saints' Super Bowl XLIV victory. He holds New Orleans career marks for receptions, yards and touchdowns.

•  

  Paul Sakuma/Associated Press 

  5. La'Roi Glover (Oakland, Round 5, Pick No. 166 overall, 1996)

  Glover was a fabulous player during his 13-year NFL career, making six Pro Bowls and four All-Pro teams, while being named to the NFL's 2000s All-Decade Team. He led the NFL in sacks in 2000 with 17, the year he was named NFC Defensive Player of the Year.

•  

  Stephan Savoia/Associated Press 

  4. Hines Ward (Pittsburgh, Round 3, Pick No. 92 overall, 1998)

  Ward is the Steelers' all-time leader in catches, yards and TD receptions, and finished his career as one of just eight players to record at least 1,000 receptions. He is a two-time Super Bowl champion and won MVP honors in XL. He appears to have a solid case for induction into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

•  

  Tom Mihalek/Associated Press 

  3. Brian Dawkins (Philadelphia, Round 2, Pick No. 61 overall, 1996)

  Like Hines Ward, Dawkins appears headed to the Hall of Fame after a career that included nine Pro Bowls, six All-Pro teams and a Super Bowl. A member of the NFL 2000s All-Decade Team, Dawkins finished his career with 1,131 tackles, 26 sacks, 37 forced fumbles, 37 interceptions (two returned for TDs) and 175 passes defensed.

•  

  National Football League 

  2. Larry Allen (Dallas, Round 2, Pick No. 46 overall, 1994)

  Allen is the only compensatory draft pick in the Hall of Fame. He had quite a career in the NFL, starting 197 of 203 games and making 11 Pro Bowls and seven All-Pro teams. He was voted to both the NFL's 1990s and 2000s All-Decade Teams.

•  

  Aaron M. Sprecher/NFL 

  1. Tom Brady (New England, Round 6, Pick No. 199 overall, 2000)

  Brady is a lock for the Hall of Fame with credentials that include two NFL MVPs, three Super Bowl MVPs, four Super Bowl titles and nine Pro Bowl selections. He is the Patriots' all-time leader in passing yards, completions and career wins.

 

[Gastineau Lives]

15 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

16 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

Its actually pretty shocking how little intelligent football dudes know about the topic. I thought it would be a discussion about strategy but really its become a pretty boring debate on how "Draft picks are good" and "What is a comp pick". 

Im done replying in this thread but thanks for the responses. The best player of our lifetimes was a comp pick as well as many HOF.  Draft picks are definitely a good thing and even if they don't "Boom" getting guys like Quincy Enunwa who didn't even count against our salary cap last year is a MILLION times better then signing a JAG like Jarvis Jones to play rotational snaps for 3.5m yearly. 

 

 

Its actually pretty shocking how little intelligent football dudes know about the topic. I thought it would be a discussion about strategy but really its become a pretty boring debate on how "Draft picks are good" and "What is a comp pick". 

Im done replying in this thread but thanks for the responses. The best player of our lifetimes was a comp pick as well as many HOF.  Draft picks are definitely a good thing and even if they don't "Boom" getting guys like Quincy Enunwa who didn't even count against our salary cap last year is a MILLION times better then signing a JAG like Jarvis Jones to play rotational snaps for 3.5m yearly. 

 

 

More than 75 percent of comp pics are accrued in rounds 5-7. If you think that a team is going to purposely not sign an established NFL player at a position of need for their football team in hopes of drafting a fifth, sixth or seventh rounder at "fill in the blank" position hoping that they can be, hopefully, as productive on the NFL level as the guy they didn't sign at the position of need, or,  in hopes of winning the comp pick lottery then I don't really know what to tell you.

Maybe you should just have a conversation with MacCagnan to set him straight. He's obviously incompetent.

[Bleedin Green]

28 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

Its actually pretty shocking how little intelligent football dudes know about the topic. I thought it would be a discussion about strategy but really its become a pretty boring debate on how "Draft picks are good" and "What is a comp pick". 

Im done replying in this thread but thanks for the responses. The best player of our lifetimes was a comp pick as well as many HOF.  Draft picks are definitely a good thing and even if they don't "Boom" getting guys like Quincy Enunwa who didn't even count against our salary cap last year is a MILLION times better then signing a JAG like Jarvis Jones to play rotational snaps for 3.5m yearly. 

 

 

This list includes 18 players over a 22 year period, 4 of which were drafted in rounds 1 and 2, which no longer exist as comp picks.  You're really not helping your case here.

[Il Mostro]

2 hours ago, Shockwave said:

 I love this as the foundation of your thesis. You really are a one-trick donkey.  

[Jet Nut]

On March 24, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Shockwave said:

Sounds like a Rex Ryan responce. 

Most people would have preferred CJ anderson this offseason to Forte. In fact the Bears tried to sign CJ Anderson and didn't even offer Forte a contract. So No - Your not passing up on better players. 

And Yes - Ill take 12 draft picks every year. Thankyou. 

So you agree with the Bears and their genius GM for trying to get comp picks over talent?  

So you think that their trade of B Marshall to the Jets for a late round draft pick was the move of a smart GM?  That the Bears won that deal? 

[rex-n-effect]

46 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

This list includes 18 players over a 22 year period, 4 of which were drafted in rounds 1 and 2, which no longer exist as comp picks.  You're really not helping your case here.

His argument just keeps getting worse. You can draw a clear line from the poor arguments in his individual posts to the poor argument of his comp pick theory.

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, Gastineau Lives said:

So, you're saying we missed out on a third rounder because of Jarvis Jenkins?? Now I'm pissed!  I apologize for everything I've typed so far.

It's far from over.  If Fitz signs elsewhere and/or if Antonio Allen is actually a "qualifying" UFA rather than "non-qualifying" then we will have a net loss in UFA's (assuming Mac doesn't sign any other Qualifying UFAs between now and June 1) and the round we get would depend on whether Fitzpatricks average annual compensation on his new team is closer to those of Snacks or Ivory.  If both Allen and Fitz count, then we'll have 2 picks.

[Shockwave]

1 hour ago, Gastineau Lives said:

So, you're saying we missed out on a third rounder because of Jarvis Jenkins?? Now I'm pissed!  I apologize for everything I've typed so far.

Yes my friend - Thats the point of the thread that the majority of people that responded in the thread can not comprehend. This isn't some theory. This isn't even a debate. Its just what the good GM's in the NFL do. They don't pass on 3rd and 4th round comp draft picks for players like Mclendon and Jenkins. This is just standard practice in the NFL. 

10 minutes ago, Dcat said:

It's far from over.  If Fitz signs elsewhere and/or if Antonio Allen is actually a "qualifying" UFA rather than "non-qualifying" then we will have a net loss in UFA's (assuming Mac doesn't sign any other Qualifying UFAs between now and June 1) and the round we get would depend on whether Fitzpatricks average annual compensation on his new team is closer to those of Snacks or Ivory.  If both Allen and Fitz count, then we'll have 2 picks.

I def see what your saying DCAT and absolutely hope for the same. However it is far more likely we resign Fitz and Allen ends up playing a backup role for the texans and wouldn't count against the threshold. 

 

[CrazyCarl40]

I can't believe this thread is still a thing. Wow.

[Shockwave]

1 hour ago, Gastineau Lives said:

So, you're saying we missed out on a third rounder because of Jarvis Jenkins?? Now I'm pissed!  I apologize for everything I've typed so far.

*Its a huge part of how successful teams organize their offseason attack. The Owner of the Ravens talks about altering there strategy and going after Weddle based on them this year: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqZvrNrB0K4

[Dcat]

9 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

Yes my friend - Thats the point of the thread that the majority of people that responded in the thread can not comprehend. This isn't some theory. This isn't even a debate. Its just what the good GM's in the NFL do. They don't pass on 3rd and 4th round comp draft picks for players like Mclendon and Jenkins. This is just standard practice in the NFL. 

I def see what your saying DCAT and absolutely hope for the same. However it is far more likely we resign Fitz and Allen ends up playing a backup role for the texans and wouldn't count against the threshold. 

 

at the very least, it provides yet another small reason to walk away from Fitz.  Good for those that don't want Fitz back.  assuming Allen will be "non-qualifying",  for all practical purposes at this moment, Fitz signing elsewhere gives us at least a 3rd/4th or 4th/5th depending on his new annual average salary.  

Rather than Fitz, I'll take the equivalent in the stronger armed McCown at a back up's price + a comp pick rather than Fitz at some absurd starters' price. 

[Shockwave]

7 minutes ago, Dcat said:

at the very least, it provides yet another small reason to walk away from Fitz.  Good for those that don't want Fitz back.  assuming Allen will be "non-qualifying",  for all practical purposes at this moment, Fitz signing elsewhere gives us at least a 3rd/4th or 4th/5th depending on his new annual average salary.  

Rather than Fitz, I'll take the equivalent in the stronger armed McCown at a back up's price + a comp pick rather than Fitz at some absurd starters' price. 

Definitely Agree. Ill take McCown at 4m plus a 3rd Rounder any day over Fitzpatrick at 16m. 

[ZachEY]

2 hours ago, Shockwave said:

Let this be my last responce in the thread

awww man... you made it bold and everything... come on!

[Bleedin Green]

6 minutes ago, gEYno said:

awww man... you made it bold and everything... come on!

It was also like the 4th time he said that.  Did you really get your hopes up?

[Dcat]

It's actually a very interesting thread.  I learned a lot about comp picks from reading Jason's highly detailed and most likely accurate descriptions of the comp pick process in Over-The-Cap (links in the OP).  For all the ridicule being launched at Shockwave, in the end he has a valid point and the best GM's do indeed have these factors in mind, among many others of course, in making FA decisions.  Credit where credit is due.  I'm glad Shockwave started the thread.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

It's actually a very interesting thread.  I learned a lot about comp picks from reading Jason's highly detailed and most likely accurate descriptions of the comp pick process in Over-The-Cap (links in the OP).  For all the ridicule being launched at Shockwave, in the end he has a valid point and the best GM's do indeed have these factors in mind, among many others of course, in making FA decisions.  Credit where credit is due.  I'm glad Shockwave started the thread.

There's a lot of tl;dr in here.  But, I don't think anyone's denying that comp picks can be helpful, and getting them is a good thing.  I think counterargument is generally that the Jets do not have the luxury to place comp picks over players at this point.  When you have a QB, and a lot of talent elsewhere, you have the freedom to do a lot of things that the Jets currently do not.  Unless, of course, you're comfortable with the full scale rebuild.  Which many fans may be, but players, GMs, and coaching staff may not be.

[Shockwave]

50 minutes ago, gEYno said:

There's a lot of tl;dr in here.  But, I don't think anyone's denying that comp picks can be helpful, and getting them is a good thing.  I think counterargument is generally that the Jets do not have the luxury to place comp picks over players at this point.  When you have a QB, and a lot of talent elsewhere, you have the freedom to do a lot of things that the Jets currently do not.  Unless, of course, you're comfortable with the full scale rebuild.  Which many fans may be, but players, GMs, and coaching staff may not be.

Great Post. 

2 hours ago, Dcat said:

It's actually a very interesting thread.  I learned a lot about comp picks from reading Jason's highly detailed and most likely accurate descriptions of the comp pick process in Over-The-Cap (links in the OP).  For all the ridicule being launched at Shockwave, in the end he has a valid point and the best GM's do indeed have these factors in mind, among many others of course, in making FA decisions.  Credit where credit is due.  I'm glad Shockwave started the thread.

TY.

Been on these boards for over 10 years - I don't post much but if I post a topic its going to be controversial with hopes of a good football discussion or to stimulate thought. Every single topic I start will have a bunch of ridicule- Thats the point. With that ridicule will come some excellent responses that I learn from - From some of the intelligent guys here. 

The goal of the thread to was to discuss "Geyno's" thoughts above.  Check the first post: It is clear as day Cleveland, Cincinnai, Denver, KC, Miami and us were going to lose bigtime FA's this offseason. So we have Superbowl Winners, Playoff teams, Bubble teams, and Full Rebuilds in that grouping. Most of them certainly have room to sign FA's. 

Out of all of those teams I feel like Miami, KC, and the Jets were all in the same grouping - But they handled things completely different. Andy Reid and Mike T have alot more pressure on them then us yet they went the opposite route. Perhaps its bc they somewhat have a Franchise QB as the poster states? Certainly possible but would u really think Tannehill and Smith are Franchise guys? 

You can see John Elway has planned this. However you have to wonder if CJ Anderson would have been retained if he was a FA. The tender the Broncos wouldn't have netted them any pick which somewhat forced their hand. The way the Broncos played their hand with their other FA's its fair to wonder if they wouldn't have matched his offer if he was simply a FA as they would have likely received a decent pick for him and still been able to go after a Forte/Foster. Instead Elways made a big mistake and they would have received nothing which forced them to match his offer sheet. 

You also had mentioned not signing Fitzpatrick before. However that goes against the Jets strategy so far this offseason. The Jets clearly feel they are not far away. They feel they don't need to rebuild and can simply retool. Otherwise why sign a bunch of 30 year olds? If your in a rebuild you sign McCown and Draft a QB. 

What the Jets are saying by their signings is they have had a draft plan all along before FA. These guys Mclendon/Jenkins are signs Mo will be gone on draft day or before and they don't plan on using any resources at those positions in the draft there or at RB.  Some will say that is a huge mistake with perhaps the deepest Dline draft in recent memory upon us - But my guess is by all their actions(Meetings and workouts) that well be going very heavy on Oline and LB with a QB and CB thrown in somewhere.