Will this team just play?

[Jetster]

Has the "we think we could be the best ever" talk finally dissipated with the arrival of Todd Bowles? It takes some time to get the stink from an old coach off of a team. If there was one thing I couldn't stand about Rex Ryan it was him constantly bragging about how great the defense was going to be. And that bravado would seep into the players themselves.

Dont get me wrong, I understand being confident, but the Jets weren't just confident, they were downright full of themselves. Then, we would all watch in horror as our self appointed best defense in football would wilt in the 4th quarter & never get a stop and give up 3rd & longs.

If you go to the Jets official site & watch some of the interviews it seems Bowles has finally washed that stink off and changed the mindset of this organization. Guy talk about, "we need to get better", or, "I need to do more", "if we play as a team". Even the youngsters like Leo are buying into the fact it's your actual play on the field that matters. Leo has said, "whatever they need me to do, I'll do it. I have to learn each position to help this team". Sheldon hasn't said a thing. Pryor? Quiet. Jenkins & Lee? All business. 

Guys in the secondary are still fighting for roster spots. There are 2/3 LBs fighting. Guys are still fighting for the #2 CB spot. Bench players are hustling for playing time. No more free rides. No more guys telling us how great this defense is gonna be. It's a welcome change this modest approach. I wish Bowles success, he deserves it. I love his calm demeaner, but you can just tell you better not piss him off. His players respect him. I'm really excited to see how he slowly incorporates these young LBs. How he utilizes Lee.

I see Macc & Bowles here for a long run. If we ever want to be the next Kings of the AFC east we have finally got to keep continuity in this organization. I've been a fan for a very long time & starting over has never been good to us. Sure we'd have those 2 seasons but bringing in Mercinaries like Parcells is short lived. With Macc I actually see a plan, an excellent scouting dept., an attempt to fill out the roster with depth & competition. I see a bright future instead of quick bursts of success & 5 years of ineptitude. I've always been proud to be a Jet fan, I honestly think Jet fans are some of the most loyal based on our past. With this regime I think we'll see the largest influx of new young Jet fans.

That doesn't guarantee success but at least we're no longer run by a bunch of slapdicks.

 

[nyjunc]

to be fair we usually had a top 10 D under Rex and we had some really successful seasons.  it's as if people only remember 2014 when he was sabotaged by his GM.

[Jetsfan80]

15 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

to be fair we usually had a top 10 D under Rex and we had some really successful seasons.  it's as if people only remember 2014 when he was sabotaged by his GM.

Define "usually"?  Because these were Rex's defensive ranks in points against and yardage from 2011-2014:

2011:  20th in points against, 5th in yardage allowed

2012:  20th, 25th

2013:  19th, 22nd

2014:  24th, 27th

Was he "sabotaged" ALL of those years?  By two different GM's?

More realistically, the simple answer is that Rex sucked for most of his tenure.  2 very good years when we spent like crazy and Rex's defensive scheme took the league by storm.  4 awful years when the salary cap issues reared its ugly head, the league figured Rex out, and he sucked at his job, resulting in a losing record overall. 

FYI he's not doing any better with that super talented defense in Buffalo (that was a top 5 unit under his predecessor Jim Schwartz), either.  No one has "sabotaged" him there.  In fact, they're giving him every chance to succeed and a very good roster to work with.  He's still finding new and creative ways to f*ck up.  Much like your boy Mark Sanchez f*cked up in Philadelphia and Denver, because he is also terrible at his job.

Rex sucks.

[peekskill68]

Also to be fair you never really heard a peep out of Revis when he was the best in football, from the OL when they were among the best, Thomas Jones, T Rich etc.  I agree with your point but the trash talk wasn't coming from everyone...

[The Crusher]

13 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

to be fair we usually had a top 10 D under Rex and we had some really successful seasons.  it's as if people only remember 2014 when he was sabotaged by his GM.

2 back to back  NFL final four appearances is no joke .  

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Define "usually"?  Because these were Rex's defensive ranks in points against and yardage from 2011-2014:

2011:  20th in points against, 5th in yardage allowed

2012:  20th, 25th

2013:  19th, 22nd

2014:  24th, 27th

Was he "sabotaged" ALL of those years?  By two different GM's?

More realistically, the simple answer is that Rex sucked for most of his tenure.  2 very good years when we spent like crazy and Rex's defensive scheme took the league by storm.  4 awful years when the salary cap issues reared its ugly head, the league figured Rex out, and he sucked at his job, resulting in a losing record overall. 

FYI he's not doing any better with that super talented defense in Buffalo (that was a top 5 unit under his predecessor Jim Schwartz), either. 

Rex sucks.

D's are ranked by yards allowed

 

2009: 1

2010: 3

2011: 5

2012: 8

2013: 11

2014: 6

 

that is ONE season outside the top 10(barely)

average ranking: 5.7

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

2 back to back  NFL final four appearances is no joke .  

especially for our franchise.  he doubled our AFC title game apps.  From 1970-2008 we had 2, from 2009-2014 we had 2.

[Bleedin Green]

4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

D's are ranked by yards allowed

 

2009: 1

2010: 3

2011: 5

2012: 8

2013: 11

2014: 6

 

that is ONE season outside the top 10(barely)

average ranking: 5.7

Exactly.  Everyone knows the winners of NFL games are determined solely based upon which team had more yards.  80 needs to get with it.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, Bleedin Green said:

Exactly.  Everyone knows the winners of NFL games are determined solely based upon which team had more yards.  80 needs to get with it.

I think we overuse many stats, no one single ranking tells all but when people talk about top ranked Ds they use yards allowed.  We have to remember especially from 2012-2014 we had an offense that turned it over like crazy and gave away points on an almost weekly basis. There's only so much a D can do but they kept us in most games despite all that.

[drsamuel84]

Sooooo many new guys here who weren't around for the Rex years.  Sure the Mangold's and Revis' were around but still it's not only a different mentality from a coaching standpoint but the GM I think has made it a point to bring in a mix of star power and solid role players like Enunwa.  Tanny was too starstruck with big names and his biggest problem was he just didn't value draft picks enough which is why we fell off a cliff so quickly after the back to back AFC championship games.

[UnitedWhofans]

13 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Exactly.  Everyone knows the winners of NFL games are determined solely based upon which team had more yards.  80 needs to get with it.

The other problem is that pick sixes count against defenses, as do turnovers deep in our territory 

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, drsamuel84 said:

Sooooo many new guys here who weren't around for the Rex years.  Sure the Mangold's and Revis' were around but still it's not only a different mentality from a coaching standpoint but the GM I think has made it a point to bring in a mix of star power and solid role players like Enunwa.  Tanny was too starstruck with big names and his biggest problem was he just didn't value draft picks enough which is why we fell off a cliff so quickly after the back to back AFC championship games.

I will agree he liked to trade draft picks but to say he was only concerned about star power isn't true.  he built those teams w/ some excellent role players and in some cases those role players had to step up after big injuries in 2009 and 2010.

 

he completed transformed the OL heading into 2008

role players he acquired to hel[p those 2009-2010 teams

Leon washington(when he got hurt Greene stepped up)

Brad Smith

Eric Smith(who stepped up when Leonhard got hurt in 2010)

Drew Coleman

Tony Richardson

Robert Turner

Wayne Hunter(laugh all you want, he saved us when woody went down in 2010)

Dwight Lowery

Wallace Wright

Brodney Pool

Trevor Pryce

Mike Devito

james Ihedigbo

Jim Leonhard

etc...

 

 

[nyjunc]

7 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

The other problem is that pick sixes count against defenses, as do turnovers deep in our territory 

this is why stats are a guide but do not tell us all.  Our offenses in those latter years set up opponents to score, on the flip side that helps a D in yardage rankings too.  I don't think we were as good as those rankings either but I think we were much closer to our yards allowed ranking than points allowed ranking.

[nycdan]

18 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I think we overuse many stats, no one single ranking tells all but when people talk about top ranked Ds they use yards allowed.  We have to remember especially from 2012-2014 we had an offense that turned it over like crazy and gave away points on an almost weekly basis. There's only so much a D can do but they kept us in most games despite all that.

 

There are some legitimate concerns when using yards allowed in a vacuum.  If you have a high-powered, passing offense, you are going to give the other team a lot more plays from scrimmage to compile yards than if you have a ball-control offense.  It's still a useful stat over 16 games but flawed. 

I always like the idea of average yards allowed by possession - perhaps not counting possessions that start inside the offenses 5 or the defenses 20.  That would seem to give you a better read on how effective the defense really is.  You are still going to be skewed a bit if the other team is always behind, but I think it provides a useful metric in addition to what's usually looked at.

 

 

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

48 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I think we overuse many stats, no one single ranking tells all but when people talk about top ranked Ds they use yards allowed.  We have to remember especially from 2012-2014 we had an offense that turned it over like crazy and gave away points on an almost weekly basis. There's only so much a D can do but they kept us in most games despite all that.

But wait....wasn't Mark Sanchez the starter in 2012?  Are you partly blaming his turnovers for Rex's failures here?  Because you also think Mark Sanchez is awesome too.  Quite the conundrum you've created for yourself there.

Rex and Sanchez:  Both awesome at their jobs somehow because nyjunc says so, and stupid "stats" are for geeks and nerds and stuff.

[Jetsfan80]

38 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

The other problem is that pick sixes count against defenses, as do turnovers deep in our territory 

But according to nyjunc Mark Sanchez is a really good QB and Idzik wasn't here yet, so clearly the media is to blame for that whole 2012 season thingy. 

[Jetster]

1 hour ago, peekskill68 said:

Also to be fair you never really heard a peep out of Revis when he was the best in football, from the OL when they were among the best, Thomas Jones, T Rich etc.  I agree with your point but the trash talk wasn't coming from everyone...

Rex only cared about his defense. Our offense couldn't say sh*t, they weren't that good. The running game was great in 2009,2010 behind a great Oline.

[Jetster]

59 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

especially for our franchise.  he doubled our AFC title game apps.  From 1970-2008 we had 2, from 2009-2014 we had 2.

2009 was a complete fluke based on Polian/Colts sitting Payton, I think the 1st play for their backup was a strip score for the Jets?

2010 was legit but Rex defense layed a huge f*cking egg in the AFCCG! Even though the offense got back in it his D gave up the huge 3rd down in the 4th.

Rex highlight game was the win in Gillette, but he was also the coach for 3 absolutely embarrassing losses to the Pats. The type of losses where you really think twice about sporting your Jets sweatshirt or hat,lol.

[Big Blocker]

anyone who knows the game knows there is no single stat by which to fairly assess an overall Defense. But that is a digression.

I don't know if Bowles has succeeded in fully eliminating the stink from the Ryan years.  But I think he's done as much as can be reasonably expected in that regard.   I also expect it will continue to get better under him.  That is one of the best things I like about him.  Bombast is out. 

[whodeawhodat]

6 minutes ago, Jetster said:

2009 was a complete fluke based on Polian/Colts sitting Payton, I think the 1st play for their backup was a strip score for the Jets?

2010 was legit but Rex defense layed a huge f*cking egg in the AFCCG! Even though the offense got back in it his D gave up the huge 3rd down in the 4th.

Rex highlight game was the win in Gillette, but he was also the coach for 3 absolutely embarrassing losses to the Pats. The type of losses where you really think twice about sporting your Jets sweatshirt or hat,lol.

dude, we buried the football.  We ended the pats season in Gillette, one of most fulfilling wins I witnessed as a Jet. I enjoyed it immensely!

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Rex highlight game was the win in Gillette, but he was also the coach for 3 absolutely embarrassing losses to the Pats. The type of losses where you really think twice about sporting your Jets sweatshirt or hat,lol.

It's funny how, when Rex arrived in New England, he was slapped with the label of "He can beat the Patriots!" on him.

Rex is 4-11 against Bill Belichick as a HC, including (as you noted with those "3 embarrassing losses") deficits of 42 in 2010, 30 in 2012, and 21 in 2011.

[Jetster]

4 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

anyone who knows the game knows there is no single stat by which to fairly assess an overall Defense. But that is a digression.

I don't know if Bowles has succeeded in fully eliminating the stink from the Ryan years.  But I think he's done as much as can be reasonably expected in that regard.   I also expect it will continue to get better under him.  That is one of the best things I like about him.  Bombast is out. 

I love Bowles attitude. You can tell he's not a "tell me" guy, he's a "show me" guy. Playing on a Super Bowl team doesn't hurt his rep with the players either. Bowles was a stick your head in there player. I truly believe if Macc keeps bringing in the right players with the right attitude, Bowles can coach them up. His calm demeaner led to some awesome late 4th quarter wins last year. He teaches that "don't get too high", "don't get too low" attitude. It's that get up & dust yourself off and think about the next play & do your job. Works for the Pats, should work for us too.

[Jetster]

6 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

dude, we buried the football.  We ended the pats season in Gillette, one of most fulfilling wins I witnessed as a Jet. I enjoyed it immensely!

Sorry, I live in New England & yes that was the most amazing Sunday! But we didn't FINISH IT and didn't show up in Pittsburgh until it was too late. That was a great win in Gillette, but Pats fans got to sit down the next week, crack open & beer and laugh at us while the Steelers ran the ball down our throats. Just like Alec Baldwin said "COFFEE IS FOR CLOSERS!"

[Patriot Killa]

14 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

dude, we buried the football.  We ended the pats season in Gillette, one of most fulfilling wins I witnessed as a Jet. I enjoyed it immensely!

That still stands as my favorite Jets game ever. Emotions were so high. Divisional round win against the Chargers a year before isn't far behind.

[whodeawhodat]

11 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Sorry, I live in New England & yes that was the most amazing Sunday! But we didn't FINISH IT and didn't show up in Pittsburgh until it was too late. That was a great win in Gillette, but Pats fans got to sit down the next week, crack open & beer and laugh at us while the Steelers ran the ball down our throats. Just like Alec Baldwin said "COFFEE IS FOR CLOSERS!"

and Flo from progressive says sprinkles are for winners.  We came out flat against the steelers and couldnt climb out of that 1st half hole. I know the story, doesnt change teh fact that the week before I telling Terrific Tom and Mumbles McGee to suck it!!!!

 

 

[nyjunc]

43 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

But wait....wasn't Mark Sanchez the starter in 2012?  Are you partly blaming his turnovers for Rex's failures here?  Because you also think Mark Sanchez is awesome too.  Quite the conundrum you've created for yourself there.

Rex and Sanchez:  Both awesome at their jobs somehow because nyjunc says so, and stupid "stats" are for geeks and nerds and stuff.

but wait... if you actually read my posts you would know I NEVER said Markw as great and I said he was one of the worst QBs in the league in his LONE bad season for us in 2012.  of course we had the worst skill talent in the league then but he and the O were awful.

 

isn't it amazing how Rex sucked, Mark sucked, the OC sucked, the GM sucked yet we made back to back title games?  how did that happen?

40 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

But according to nyjunc Mark Sanchez is a really good QB and Idzik wasn't here yet, so clearly the media is to blame for that whole 2012 season thingy. 

reading comprehension isn't your friend.

31 minutes ago, Jetster said:

2009 was a complete fluke based on Polian/Colts sitting Payton, I think the 1st play for their backup was a strip score for the Jets?

2010 was legit but Rex defense layed a huge f*cking egg in the AFCCG! Even though the offense got back in it his D gave up the huge 3rd down in the 4th.

Rex highlight game was the win in Gillette, but he was also the coach for 3 absolutely embarrassing losses to the Pats. The type of losses where you really think twice about sporting your Jets sweatshirt or hat,lol.

we won enough games to make the playoffs, i believe we won 5 of our last 6.  we earned it and no it wasn't their first possession w. the backup, it was the 2nd I believe.

so your are discounting the biggest win in franchise history outside of 1968 b/c of other bad games vs. the Pats?  come on.

 

[Pac]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

2 back to back  NFL final four appearances is no joke .  

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/01/20/nfl-afc-nfc-championships-arizona-cardinals-carolina-panthers-denver-broncos-new-england-patriots

[The Crusher]

12 minutes ago, Pac said:

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/01/20/nfl-afc-nfc-championships-arizona-cardinals-carolina-panthers-denver-broncos-new-england-patriots

The Andy Benoit trophy will be presented to the winners?  

[Jetster]

14 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

and Flo from progressive says sprinkles are for winners.  We came out flat against the steelers and couldnt climb out of that 1st half hole. I know the story, doesnt change teh fact that the week before I telling Terrific Tom and Mumbles McGee to suck it!!!!

 

 

I think Pats fans got over it since then:

7-1 record over the Jets from 2011-2014

4 AFC EAST TITLES

2 CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIPS

ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WIN

And we're like, "but remember 2010?"

The 2010 Jets are blip in the rear view mirror of the New England Patriots

When BB & Brady retire & Pats fans start selling their seats because the Jets are coming to town & they don't want to witness another azz whooping by the Jets is what I'm looking forward too. F*cking front running fans.

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I think Pats fans got over it since then:

7-1 record over the Jets from 2011-2014

4 AFC EAST TITLES

2 CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIPS

ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WIN

And we're like, "but remember 2010?"

The 2010 Jets are blip in the rear view mirror of the New England Patriots

When BB & Brady retire & Pats fans start selling their seats because the Jets are coming to town & they don't want to witness another azz whooping by the Jets is what I'm looking forward too. F*cking front running fans.

it's nothing to them but for us it's the biggest win in franchise history outside of the 1968 season.

[whodeawhodat]

Just now, Jetster said:

I think Pats fans got over it since then:

7-1 record over the Jets from 2011-2014

4 AFC EAST TITLES

2 CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIPS

ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WIN

And we're like, "but remember 2010?"

The 2010 Jets are blip in the rear view mirror of the New England Patriots

When BB & Brady retire & Pats fans start selling their seats because the Jets are coming to town & they don't want to witness another azz whooping by the Jets is what I'm looking forward too. F*cking front running fans.

I agree in the grand scheme of things there are no trophies or commemorative ESPN coins going around for that game.  But as far making a pats fan cry and me drink their tears as if they taste like skittles, mmmmmmmm.  

Here is to the NYJs punching them in the mush THIS YEAR!

/refills Kool Ade

[Jetster]

25 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

I agree in the grand scheme of things there are no trophies or commemorative ESPN coins going around for that game.  But as far making a pats fan cry and me drink their tears as if they taste like skittles, mmmmmmmm.  

Here is to the NYJs punching them in the mush THIS YEAR!

/refills Kool Ade

? Not until we sweep their azzes & take this division will they start seeing the beginning of the end for their beloved Patriots. Much like the Celtics after the Bird era when you could hear crickets at the Bahston Gahden the same thing will happen in Gillette soon enough. They've had quite a run, if I was Kraft I'd sell that b*tch before the crash. 

Who would want to follow Belichick & Brady? OMG! Talk about a no win situation. Pats fans are so spoiled they boo Brady & the Pats when they run into the locker room TRAILING at home, at HALFTIME! LOL! 

God, it's gonna be a beautiful thing to see them crash & burn, it has to happen eventually....right?

[Big Blocker]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

I love Bowles attitude. You can tell he's not a "tell me" guy, he's a "show me" guy. Playing on a Super Bowl team doesn't hurt his rep with the players either. Bowles was a stick your head in there player. I truly believe if Macc keeps bringing in the right players with the right attitude, Bowles can coach them up. His calm demeaner led to some awesome late 4th quarter wins last year. He teaches that "don't get too high", "don't get too low" attitude. It's that get up & dust yourself off and think about the next play & do your job. Works for the Pats, should work for us too.

Especially if I am inclined to attribute the decisions behind any questions I have with roster issues to Macc, I am a big fan of Bowles.  There were some questionable game moves last year, and I wish he'd done something sooner about how special teams were playing.  But on the whole for a first time HC I thought he did great.  More on your point I love is attitude and approach to being the HC for the team.  Going forward I hope he learns more about how the O is run and should be run, since I don't think he can or should defer to Gailey indefinitely.  At some point their partnership will likely end. 

[Larz]

The irony is loudmouth fat rex got better results. He should have done it his way