What would this team look like if Mac had....

[Kleckineau]

52 minutes ago, Joe Jets fan said:

Because of the qb they drafted..

And the 1st round RB averaging over 5 yds per has nothing to do with the QBs success right?

[j4jets]

14 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You had me 100% until the last paragraph.

They did not need to spend money....

Could've just stopped there. Jets spending is one of the highest in the league.The 89% bs people bring up as us needing to throw cash away is bogus. 

[shuler82]

hindsight is one helluva drug.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, j4jets said:

Could've just stopped there. Jets spending is one of the highest in the league.The 89% bs people bring up as us needing to throw cash away is bogus. 

Yep.

Want to spend another $30M cash in 2015 easily to satisfy a spending requirement? This is fast/crude, and would not happen exactly this way, but just for the sake of simple math:

1. Sign Carpenter to 4 yrs $20M. Pay $10M of it up front as roster bonus. In 2015 he is paid $12.5M. (Years 2016-2018 he counts only $2.5M avg).
2. Sign Skrine (  ) to 4 yrs $24M. Pay $12M of it up front as roster bonus. In 2015 he is paid $15M. (Years 2016-2018 he counts $3M avg)
3. Give Decker advance payment of future salary of $8M as a roster bonus. Lowers each remaining year's salary by $2M each. (Years 2016-18 cap #s now avg $6.5M)

Again, no team would do all this, let alone all of them in this fashion (since it gives each player too much leverage later on), but it shows just how much "required spending" can be done, locking up the same players to the same money for the same duration of time, without signing Revis, Cromartie, Harris, etc. We'd have way more to spend now, keeping the same younger players. This doesn't even get into extending Mo back then if we were going to end up keeping him. And his contract is high enough that a lot more could have been frontloaded.

[Joe Jets fan]

26 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

And the 1st round RB averaging over 5 yds per has nothing to do with the QBs success right?

Of course it does, but could a third round back be doing just as good?

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yep.

Want to spend another $30M cash in 2015 easily to satisfy a spending requirement? This is fast/crude, and would not happen exactly this way, but just for the sake of simple math:

1. Sign Carpenter to 4 yrs $20M. Pay $10M of it up front as roster bonus. In 2015 he is paid $12.5M. (Years 2016-2018 he counts only $2.5M avg).
2. Sign Skrine (  ) to 4 yrs $24M. Pay $12M of it up front as roster bonus. In 2015 he is paid $15M. (Years 2016-2018 he counts $3M avg)
3. Give Decker advance payment of future salary of $8M as a roster bonus. Lowers each remaining year's salary by $2M each. (Years 2016-18 cap #s now avg $6.5M)

Again, no team would do all this, let alone all of them in this fashion (since it gives each player too much leverage later on), but it shows just how much "required spending" can be done, locking up the same players to the same money for the same duration of time, without signing Revis, Cromartie, Harris, etc. We'd have way more to spend now, keeping the same younger players. This doesn't even get into extending Mo back then if we were going to end up keeping him. And his contract is high enough that a lot more could have been frontloaded.

Sounds great on paper, but as we've seen before, if you pay too much up front and they won't play in the back years for the low salaries.  Most players do not give a crap about average salary.  They'll cash that signing bonus and then forget all about it next year.

[Powpow]

1 hour ago, shuler82 said:

hindsight is one helluva drug.

No hindsight here.  I was vehemently against the Harris, Revis signings and Mac's draft picks BEFORE the season started.  I was all in on Gurley and an OL in his first draft. Glennon would have been a nice option.  Last year, I wanted to draft Dak and another OL.  Instead, we got a DL that we didn't need, a shrimp WR instead of fortifying the OL and CB positions, a shrimp LB and a project QB that I really don't mind taking but should have been taken later in the draft. Just a few moves made differently and it totally changes the complexion of this feeble, unbalanced team.  And of course, had these guys not been signed, it would have opened the door to other, better options.    

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, nycdan said:

Sounds great on paper, but as we've seen before, if you pay too much up front and they won't play in the back years for the low salaries.  Most players do not give a crap about average salary.  They'll cash that signing bonus and then forget all about it next year.

I did say - twice - it wouldn't be exactly like this. Leave the middle years even lighter and bump the last year, more for incentive reasons than any other. 

Also pick & choose which you do that with & make a judgment call. Naturally, you don't do it with Revis. But consider, Mo didn't get a big signing bonus (relative to his contract total). 

Last, I wouldn't just pick 3 players to clear all that money from. Spread it over many more so they don't have an incentive, of sorts, to getting cut outright. This was just shown to illustrate that signing new players to Revis/Cromartie/Harris deals is not imperative if one merely needs to spend cash.

[20andOut]

13 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

he just had a son born on Tom Brady's birthday and named him Brady

Well now I'm convinced!

[drdetroit]

Glennon >>>>>>> any QB on our roster 

[drdetroit]

22 hours ago, Powpow said:

Glennon absolutely had the worst team around him offensively and defensively. He's got 29 td's vs. 15 int's in his career and has an incredible arm. And he just had a son born on Tom Brady's birthday and named him Brady. The kid gets it. 

Anyone who has actually seen him play knows he's way better than any qb on our roster or that bust with the flavor saver Paxton Lynch

 

 

We should sign him in the offseason but Mac will go hard after Cutler

[varjet]

In retrospect signing Fitz this year for $12mm was not the right move.   What the football experts should have realized, like one of the other blogs did, that Fitz against top pass defenses is just awful, that the Jets were going to face a bunch of them this year.   For their long-term build, they were better off with Geno playing for his next contract and signing a Hoyer type, cheaper.  

Although this could accused of Monday Morning QBing, I think people knew it at the time, and the Jets were the only team bidding for him.  

Only Woody, Macc and Bowles knows who really wanted to sign Fitz and Revis.  My guess is that the latter 2 are not that worried about their jobs because it was Woody who pushed for those signings.  Revis was another deal that no other team, including the Patriots, had interest in doing.  

But now the Jets are out $12mm on Fitz this year.  That could have been spent to lock down an OL in his mid-20s to a long contract.  For a team rebuilding, contracts like Decker's, Carpenters and even Gilcrist's and Skrine's were the right idea-players supposedly in their primes who you can build around.  I think the latter do can play better if they are better coached.

The Jets now need to find more OL, an Edge and a CB to build around, in addition to a QB.  Let's avoid the quick fixes-they don't work.

[Powpow]

1 hour ago, drdetroit said:

Anyone who has actually seen him play knows he's way better than any qb on our roster or that bust with the flavor saver Paxton Lynch

 

 

We should sign him in the offseason but Mac will go hard after Cutler

Hmmmm agreed. Glennon has a rocket of an arm, outstanding pocket presence, can go through progressions well. He needs a really good OL though which was his downfall in Tamps because he's not the most elusive fella. Cutler to the Jets? He's such a douche. 

[section314]

12 minutes ago, Powpow said:

Hmmmm agreed. Glennon has a rocket of an arm, outstanding pocket presence, can go through progressions well. He needs a really good OL though which was his downfall in Tamps because he's not the most elusive fella. Cutler to the Jets? He's such a douche. 

If Glennon is that good, why would Tampa draft Winston instead of building up an Oline for him like Dallas did for Romo? Totally agree w/you on Cutler....a poor man's version of Jeff George.No thanks.

[Powpow]

3 minutes ago, section314 said:

If Glennon is that good, why would Tampa draft Winston instead of building up an Oline for him like Dallas did for Romo? Totally agree w/you on Cutler....a poor man's version of Jeff George.No thanks.

Good question. Villain may know the answer to that one since he's his biggest fan. My take on it is they just lost faith in him quickly. They really have sucked in all phases over the last number of years. He's a talented kid and I guess they expected him to be the next coming of johnny Unitas. 

[section314]

8 minutes ago, Powpow said:

Good question. Villain may know the answer to that one since he's his biggest fan. My take on it is they just lost faith in quickly. They really have sucked in all phases over the last number of years. He's a talented kid and I guess they expected him to be the next coming of johnny Unitas. 

It's strange, because they bought in Vincent Jackson,drafted Evans.Oline would be next logical step.I just hope Mac starts using quality picks on Oline, starting next draft. Whether the QB is Geno, Petty, Hack or you/me, without a line, it doesn't matter. The O line, to me, is easily the worst unit on our team. It has to be revamped.Only Mangold and Carpenter are worth keeping as starters, with Winters as a backup.

[Powpow]

1 minute ago, section314 said:

It's strange, because they bought in Vincent Jackson,drafted Evans.Oline would be next logical step.I just hope Mac starts using quality picks on Oline, starting next draft. Whether the QB is Geno, Petty, Hack or you/me, without a line, it doesn't matter. The O line, to me, is easily the worst unit on our team. It has to be revamped.Only Mangold and Carpenter are worth keeping as starters, with Winters as a backup.

A+ Clady is decent but near the end of his career. That's really the first position to be addressed. Mangold is nearing the end so center also is a must in the next year or two. And they need a starting guard and RT as well. Their depth on the IL sucks as well.  That's a lot of picks. Read a good article how this team needs a complete reset. Hard to argue that. Getting elite WR's is moot if your QB is running for his life. 

[varjet]

6 minutes ago, Powpow said:

A+ Clady is decent but near the end of his career. That's really the first position to be addressed. Mangold is nearing the end so center also is a must in the next year or two. And they need a starting guard and RT as well. Their depth on the IL sucks as well.  That's a lot of picks. Read a good article how this team needs a complete reset. Hard to argue that. Getting elite WR's is moot if your QB is running for his life. 

Neither Ijalana nor Winters (nor Wes Johnson) are under contract next year.  

Clady ($10.5mm), Mangold ($9mm), Carpenter ($6.8mm), Breno ($5.1), Dozier  ($700K), Qvale ($600K) and Shell ($600K) are.

The only bit of this that makes any sense is Carpenter and Qvale.  They should extend Winters now, if they have the money.

[Powpow]

Just now, varjet said:

Neither Ijalana nor Winters (nor Wes Johnson) are under contract next year.  

Clady ($10.5mm), Mangold ($9mm), Carpenter ($6.8mm), Breno ($5.1), Dozier  ($700K), Qvale ($600K) and Shell ($600K) are.

The only bit of this that makes any sense is Carpenter and Qvale.  They should extend Winters now, if they have the money.

They really really need to draft smarter, better. The OL should have been addressed by Mac in his first 2 years. Carpenter was a nice start but he blew it after that. They are old, ineffective and uninspiring. In Mac I just don't trust.

[section314]

16 minutes ago, varjet said:

Neither Ijalana nor Winters (nor Wes Johnson) are under contract next year.  

Clady ($10.5mm), Mangold ($9mm), Carpenter ($6.8mm), Breno ($5.1), Dozier  ($700K), Qvale ($600K) and Shell ($600K) are.

The only bit of this that makes any sense is Carpenter and Qvale.  They should extend Winters now, if they have the money.

It will be interesting to see if Dozier sees any action with this supposed "revamp." He can't be any worse than the guys playing now, can he?

[varjet]

6 minutes ago, section314 said:

It will be interesting to see if Dozier sees any action with this supposed "revamp." He can't be any worse than the guys playing now, can he?

Carpenter, Mangold and Winters are not playing badly.  

In a perfect world, they would trade out Mangold for someone younger and quicker.

[flgreen]

39 minutes ago, section314 said:

It will be interesting to see if Dozier sees any action with this supposed "revamp." He can't be any worse than the guys playing now, can he?

The Jets guards haven't given up a sack this year, so yes he can

[20andOut]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

Clady ($10.5mm), Mangold ($9mm), Carpenter ($6.8mm), Breno ($5.1), Dozier  ($700K), Qvale ($600K) and Shell ($600K) are.

Barring a major comeback in second half of season I doubt Breno is seeing a penny of that money. Cap hit only $600k if they dump him.

[dbatesman]

On 10/20/2016 at 8:31 PM, Powpow said:

Big Cat, who I do love, over Gurley. But BIG Mistake. Gurley is a game breaker who we haven't had since Freeman McNeil. 

Gamebreaking Gurley is 30th in DYAR and DVOA this year and he'll be in a wheelchair by the time this team's ready to compete again.

[Powpow]

8 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Gamebreaking Gurley is 30th in DYAR and DVOA this year and he'll be in a wheelchair by the time this team's ready to compete again.

If you follow the Rams this year you would know their OL is horrible. They've even used Gurley as a wr to just get him the ball.  Doesnt matter who you are, if a defense stacks the line, you're not going to run the ball.  And the Rams QB sucks which just stifles their ability tonrun the ball. Gurley is a special talent and would have been a better pick. 

[dbatesman]

2 minutes ago, Powpow said:

If you follow the Rams this year you would know their OL is horrible. They've even used Gurley as a wr to just get him the ball.  Doesnt matter who you are, if a defense stacks the line, you're not going to run the ball.  And the Rams QB sucks which just stifles their ability tonrun the ball. Gurley is a special talent and would have been a better pick. 

The Jets, on the other hand, have none of these problems.

[UnitedWhofans]

24 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

The Jets, on the other hand, have none of these problems.

Actually the OL has been solid to me. We don't give up many sacks.

[Powpow]

27 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

The Jets, on the other hand, have none of these problems.

True that. LOLS 

[dbatesman]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Actually the OL has been solid to me. We don't give up many sacks.

The line has been pretty good. At the end of the day I just don't believe in ever spending a top-10 pick on a back.

[UnitedWhofans]

What really bothers me is just the hypocrisy of everybody saying that Maccagnan was great in the preseason and last year and now a lot of people are saying he sucks and is overrated.

Even if it's true, one season should not change opinions on a GM. It just refers to the filp floppy nature of this fanbase

[dbatesman]

25 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

What really bothers me is just the hypocrisy of everybody saying that Maccagnan was great in the preseason and last year and now a lot of people are saying he sucks and is overrated.

Even if it's true, one season should not change opinions on a GM. It just refers to the filp floppy nature of this fanbase

In a way, the team is bad because of the fans

[BroadwayJoe12]

52 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

In a way, the team is bad because of the fans

1a. Fans

1b. The Media

2. Woody

3. Satanic contractual obligations re: Namath selling our franchise's soul  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4. Consistently poor player evaluation and development. 

[drdetroit]

5 hours ago, Powpow said:

Hmmmm agreed. Glennon has a rocket of an arm, outstanding pocket presence, can go through progressions well. He needs a really good OL though which was his downfall in Tamps because he's not the most elusive fella. Cutler to the Jets? He's such a douche. 

Cutler and Kristin Cavallari already have their Manhattan apt picked out 

[drdetroit]

4 hours ago, section314 said:

If Glennon is that good, why would Tampa draft Winston 

Because Winston was the best qb prospect since Luck

[Harlemnite1]

On 10/21/2016 at 4:31 AM, Powpow said:

I find him to be way over his head. So many of his moves have backfired and he was essentially forced into signing Fitz to that 12 mill.  His first mistake was not cutting Geno immediately. Send a message, clean house. Trade for Glennon which would have given him a QB with much more promise and then draft the Petty's and Hacks. Instead he wasted numous high picks on players that were highly questionable and unnecessary. Big Cat, who I do love, over Gurley. But BIG Mistake. Gurley is a game breaker who we haven't had since Freeman McNeil. And we had surplus there as it was. Signing Revis and Harris to huge contracts. Dumb and dumb. Wasting two #2 and a # 1 on Devin Smith, Hack and Darin Lee instead of fortifying an old and inferior OL. Wasting billions on a suspect secondary that has got to be one of the worst in the history of the NFL. Gurley and Glennon and drafting some young OL are just a few simple moves that would have transformed this team and set them up. Instead we have an old, unbalanced joke of a team that will take years to get back up to being competitive. 

I believe Macc is the right guy for the Jets. I think he really messed up with the Hackenberg pick but other than that he has gotten some players. Its the coach who is not up to par and messing things up. Now who are we looking for in the upcoming draft. I'm thinking we will be top 3 maybe even 2.