CanadaSteve Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 3 hours ago, AFJF said: BIll Walsh once put an exact number on how many starts he needs to see out of a QB before he knows if he's gonna' be any good. I forget the exact number, but I remember thinking when I read it, that it was basically a year and a half, so let's say it's somewhere around 24 starts. That's how long one of the greatest minds this game has ever known says he needed to evaluate a QB. Yet I've met/heard no fewer than a dozen Jets fans say that after three NFL starts, they know Petty's not the guy. FFS NONSENSE AFJF! There are at LEAST 30 better NFL minds on this board that will tell you all you need is 3 starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 8 minutes ago, dbatesman said: Unskew me daddy You left out a comma, or, I, would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 6 minutes ago, AFJF said: I'm sure Walsh didn't give every one of his QB's 20 starts if they regressed significantly. Petty has looked better from start to start, Nagle threw for 366 yards in his first start, then followed it up with a 9-29 performance, that's a 31% completion percentage, and he had several games with similar stat lines despite more reps, more starts. I guess it's possible you're correct too though. Maybe these teams only need to hang on to these QB's for 3 NFL starts. If the light doesn't go on by then, cut bait and move on to the next guy? I think Petty looks good - he has a big arm and quick release. He obviously needs to make quicker decisions but hopefully that comes with time. When I watch Petty the #1 thing i think about is "what the hell was bowles talking about with the whole Fitz give us the best chance to win"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 18, 2016 Author Share Posted December 18, 2016 Just now, LionelRichie said: I think Petty looks good - he has a big arm and quick release. He obviously needs to make quicker decisions but hopefully that comes with time. When I watch Petty the #1 thing i think about is "what the hell was bowles talking about with the whole Fitz give us the best chance to win"? I agree. I think that sometimes an NFL QB can improve even after he's already started 3 games. Fitz is done and Hack doesn't knokw how to throw a football. Petty is the obvious choice right now. To rip the guy and root against him, claiming he's not the answer at this point is so damn Jets fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Mart Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 3 hours ago, NoBowles said: I think Petty has the tools to be a good QB, but I have zero confidence in anyone in the org currently assessing him, particularly on the coaching staff. Fair point about Cousins. Yet it was reported Mcc wanted to trade for Cousins last yr when Geno got clocked by IK. So maybe Mcc or somebody within the organization did see something in Cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 8 minutes ago, C Mart said: Yet it was reported Mcc wanted to trade for Cousins last yr when Geno got clocked by IK. So maybe Mcc or somebody within the organization did see something in Cousins. Fair point, it was mentioned earlier and I do agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 I don't know if Walsh but I remember the figure of 12 starts as a number it takes to evaluate a Qb. I'm not sure where I read it but it was not recent. 24 to me sounds like too big of a sample size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 18, 2016 Author Share Posted December 18, 2016 13 minutes ago, Rangers9 said: I don't know if Walsh but I remember the figure of 12 starts as a number it takes to evaluate a Qb. I'm not sure where I read it but it was not recent. 24 to me sounds like too big of a sample size. I read it years ago and have looked for the quote a few times since then with no luck. I think 12 is a bit too small, but I also think most sane human beings would say 3 isn't ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Hey tell me about that memory you have of anecdotal evidence from that one time that perfectly confirms your bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 4 hours ago, dbatesman said: We also have a lot of people using terms like coaching and reps to handwave the fact that Petty's style of play is basically identical to Sanchez's, so. I don't get how this is still a thing. 8 years of people having to work really hard to make an argument that the last 2 were any good and we're back to it again. Move on. Find a new act. You know who you never have to do this with? Good football players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 41 minutes ago, AFJF said: I read it years ago and have looked for the quote a few times since then with no luck. I think 12 is a bit too small, but I also think most sane human beings would say 3 isn't ideal. I saw something on a forum where they stated the Walsh number for judging a Qb is 20. But I couldn't find anything official. Walsh wrote a lot about the Qb position and his philosophy on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 18, 2016 Author Share Posted December 18, 2016 3 minutes ago, Rangers9 said: I saw something on a forum where they stated the Walsh number for judging a Qb is 20. But I couldn't find anything official. Walsh wrote a lot about the Qb position and his philosophy on it. Yup...it was in one of his books that the quote was pulled from. I'm pretty sure he didn't say 3 games was all you need, so I hope the Jets are more in line with that than the fans who had all the answers after his second or third start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 5 hours ago, NoBowles said: Question I have is who in the organization has a damn clue about identifying or developing a QB?? Mac? Shrugs Bowles? Hell no Gailey? Not really not quite sure why you include gailey in this list. maybe you never saw the slash experiment on the steelers with gailey as oc. that slash had any success is due to gailey. cowher forced him on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 6 minutes ago, AFJF said: Yup...it was in one of his books that the quote was pulled from. I'm pretty sure he didn't say 3 games was all you need, so I hope the Jets are more in line with that than the fans who had all the answers after his second or third start. 3 games gives you an idea on a Qb. If a guy is totally inept or not an NFL player you can see that. If he turns the ball over, can't move the offense, gets sacked a lot. So is practice etc which is what Hack is doing right now and Petty did last year and before Geno was injured. But you can't judge an NFL Qb on 3 starts. I think the 12 figure is a number where things slow down for a Qb and you can see if he progresses. Personally I don't think you need 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 18, 2016 Author Share Posted December 18, 2016 5 minutes ago, Rangers9 said: 3 games gives you an idea on a Qb. If a guy is totally inept or not an NFL player you can see that. If he turns the ball over, can't move the offense, gets sacked a lot. So is practice etc which is what Hack is doing right now and Petty did last year and before Geno was injured. But you can't judge an NFL Qb on 3 starts. I think the 12 figure is a number where things slow down for a Qb and you can see if he progresses. Personally I don't think you need 20. I agree. You can't judge a QB after 3 starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powpow Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 5 hours ago, Jet Nut said: Yeah, they're all too stupid. WTF does Gailey know about QBs. That moron didn't want Fitz to start. That genius wanted Geno to start. I lost all trust in Gailey after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 5 hours ago, AFJF said: I'm sure Walsh didn't give every one of his QB's 20 starts if they regressed significantly. Petty has looked better from start to start, Nagle threw for 366 yards in his first start, then followed it up with a 9-29 performance, that's a 31% completion percentage, and he had several games with similar stat lines despite more reps, more starts. I guess it's possible you're correct too though. Maybe these teams only need to hang on to these QB's for 3 NFL starts. If the light doesn't go on by then, cut bait and move on to the next guy? I would guess that Walsh would've known sooner with Nagle and Bollinger also. Did Nagle or Bollinger ever amount to anything? No. So even we were right in those instances And his point was that he wouldn't go beyond the time frame you're referring to, most likely. You're a 100% correct. And I bet Walsh would've know everything he needed to regarding Sancho by the beginning of 2011, at the latest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 18, 2016 Author Share Posted December 18, 2016 Just now, JohnJ said: I would guess that Walsh would've known sooner with Nagle and Bollinger also. Did Nagle or Bollinger ever amount to anything? No. So even we were right in those instances And his point was that he wouldn't go beyond the time frame you're referring to, most likely. You're a 100% correct. And I bet Walsh would've know everything he needed to regarding Sancho by the beginning of 2011, at the latest. Exactly. Whether it was 18 or 20 or 28, the point I'm making is that I have my doubts about fans being able to evaluate a guy with 3 career starts if Bill Walsh needed double-digit starts to do the same. With so much access to information though, you get fans from every team who convince themselves that they know better than HOF head coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 11 hours ago, Powpow said: That genius wanted Geno to start. I lost all trust in Gailey after that. Because you wanting Fitz makes you a QB expert. Geno would have been the better choice. Chan was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 23 hours ago, AFJF said: BIll Walsh once put an exact number on how many starts he needs to see out of a QB before he knows if he's gonna' be any good. I forget the exact number, but I remember thinking when I read it, that it was basically a year and a half, so let's say it's somewhere around 24 starts. That's how long one of the greatest minds this game has ever known says he needed to evaluate a QB. Yet I've met/heard no fewer than a dozen Jets fans say that after three NFL starts, they know Petty's not the guy. FFS Well you know Jets fans. They are the greatest scouts of football talent in the history of everything. It amazes me that the Jets don't hire any of these people. We would never lose a game again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 On 12/18/2016 at 8:58 AM, Jetdawgg said: There are a great deal of lol's here...lol Well, I have no opinion on Petty yet---except that he has balls and CAN throw-----but I might be dead 24 starts from now, so...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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