The real orchestrator of this Jets wreck wont come out of hiding

[phill1c]

Gotta run, will check back later on tonight during MNF.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, phill1c said:

Actually, NONE of those players started the last game, so, really, hard to say who the starters are for 2017, especially given their contract status.

Seems like you're grasping at straws when there are better arguments to make.

Name all the Jets offensive linemen under contract for 2017. I've got:

• Carpenter
• Clady (will be cut)
• Breno (should be cut)
• Mangold (may be cut)
• Shell

The only one under the age of 28 is Shell.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, phill1c said:

Gotta run, will check back later on tonight during MNF.

Excellent. I will destroy your optimism then later if I'm online.  

[NoBowles]

Personally, I am appalled that Mac has not completely rebuilt every unit on this team by now. After all, he has had 2 full drafts and 2 full offseason! 

[bostonmajet]

7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Name all the Jets offensive linemen under contract for 2017. I've got:

• Carpenter
• Clady (will be cut)
• Breno (should be cut)
• Mangold (may be cut)
• Shell

The only one under the age of 28 is Shell.

Carpenter is probably the best OL we have now  - great signing.

Clady was a calculated risk as he was good, but couldn't stay healthy; he was a stop gap as Brick retired; he will be gone

Breno sucked and should have been let go this year if it wasn't for that 'best chance' BS; will be gone thankfully;

Mangold - another year older; likely gone

Shell - looks like will be ultimate starter at RT - if so, good pick at 4th.

Idzik inherited a pretty good, but old OL; other than overpaying for Breno, only thing he did was draft Winters who took too long to become just okay. Mac inherited an okay OL, but the players were 2 years older; he added Carpenter via FA (way better than Breno signing) and Clady (risky, but had to deal with Brick retirement) and drafted Shell.

This year is the year for OL (it has to be); he will likely have to sign some more stop gaps (as LT isn't likely to happen in draft) and draft some more OL.

He didn't do a great job on OL, but drafted 3 LBs; Jenkins hopefully will be the starter next year and learn how to set the edge; tiny LB will hopefully be able to start as well and he drafted Mauldin who is a good depth guy;

Traded for Marshall and drafted/signed a bunch of guys; our WR corp hasn't looked this good in years.

Drafted Burris; he is a 4th round player who has been playing better as a rookie as McDoggle (3rd round) has been playing as a 3rd year player.

Give him another year or two. There was a ton of work to do; very old team; 2 years just wasn't enough

[varjet]

46 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Name all the Jets offensive linemen under contract for 2017. I've got:

• Carpenter
• Clady (will be cut)
• Breno (should be cut)
• Mangold (may be cut)
• Shell

The only one under the age of 28 is Shell.

I don't understand when people imply that we can keep some of the Jets' overpaid veterans, particularly on defense.  They can't afford it.

They need to buy a new OL.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, bostonmajet said:

Carpenter is probably the best OL we have now  - great signing.

Clady was a calculated risk as he was good, but couldn't stay healthy; he was a stop gap as Brick retired; he will be gone

Breno sucked and should have been let go this year if it wasn't for that 'best chance' BS; will be gone thankfully;

Mangold - another year older; likely gone

Shell - looks like will be ultimate starter at RT - if so, good pick at 4th.

Idzik inherited a pretty good, but old OL; other than overpaying for Breno, only thing he did was draft Winters who took too long to become just okay. Mac inherited an okay OL, but the players were 2 years older; he added Carpenter via FA (way better than Breno signing) and Clady (risky, but had to deal with Brick retirement) and drafted Shell.

This year is the year for OL (it has to be); he will likely have to sign some more stop gaps (as LT isn't likely to happen in draft) and draft some more OL.

He didn't do a great job on OL, but drafted 3 LBs; Jenkins hopefully will be the starter next year and learn how to set the edge; tiny LB will hopefully be able to start as well and he drafted Mauldin who is a good depth guy;

Traded for Marshall and drafted/signed a bunch of guys; our WR corp hasn't looked this good in years.

Drafted Burris; he is a 4th round player who has been playing better as a rookie as McDoggle (3rd round) has been playing as a 3rd year player.

Give him another year or two. There was a ton of work to do; very old team; 2 years just wasn't enough

The "Brick retired" song is a silly one to sing since, absent the unlikely acceptance of a $6M pay cut MM demanded for 2016, Maccagnan was going to cut Brick anyway.

Breno stinks when totally healthy, and Maccagnan idiotically kept him around for $4.5M for the upside of half a season coming off injury. It was a no-brainer to cut him in August. Like anyone else was paying him that kind of money while injured. 

He thought it more important to draft Williams and still keep both Mo and Sheldon, turn away any offers he got for Mo because his head was up his ass about Mo's trade value (just like this season when he was demanding a 1st rounder for Sheldon). Then he drafted Lee who, his slow start aside, was a luxury pick for a team with needs at many high-dollar positions. It was a stupid selection for the Jets, who needed players at high-money positions not ones filled cheaply in free agency. 

The trade for Marshall suddenly isn't so great anymore, as reporters and fans are looking forward to the cap relief provided by cutting him than they are looking forward to his return in 2017.

Burris stinks. Even the interception -- the pass was underthrown by the 2 yards by which Burris was beaten. Maybe he'll be good in the future, but right now he's terrible. McDougle is irrelevant.

He signed FA Carpenter, arguably his single best move since becoming the Jets GM. That's it. Jenkins is unsigned for 2017, as is Winters, as is Ijalana. Again, the only OL we have signed, who'll be under 28 for the 2017 season, is Shell. That is sh*t-poor planning. Knowing the state of his OL - namely older starters he could expect a year or two out of out of the gate - he's drafted two 5th round picks (one cut long ago already) for the OL in his 2 years here. 

On balance, Idzik inherited a far worse situation than Maccagnan. A terrible roster and no cap room to work with upon arrival, unlike Maccagnan. The prior high draft picks he inherited were such gems as Kyle Wilson, Quinton Coples, Stephen Hill, and Vladimir Ducasse, so cry me a river about poor Maccagnan. Idzik's first draft in 2013 was a horrible draft class, particularly high up where we picked, unlike 2015 with the draft's best prospect falling to our selection. Idzik did a very poor job overall in the draft, and I don't argue he earned his dismissal, but so has Maccagnan. I could get past MM's FA signings as rookie GM mistakes if he was better at drafting college prospects.

Give him another year or two, lol.  Sure, like it's my call. Woody Johnson will undoubtedly give him another 4 years: one more year with Bowles, then 3 more years with his own hand-picked HC.

I've said before, if either Petty or Hackenberg pans out, I'll overlook every stupid thing he's done thus far as a means to an end.

[Larz]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The "Brick retired" song is a silly one to sing since, absent the unlikely acceptance of a $6M pay cut MM demanded for 2016, Maccagnan was going to cut Brick anyway.

 

you promised me all the jets had to do was cut brick and replace him with a better younger LT and we would be ok

you promised

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

I don't understand when people imply that we can keep some of the Jets' overpaid veterans, particularly on defense.  They can't afford it.

They need to buy a new OL.

If the best we could get for Mo was a 2nd rounder, which seems likely, he should have taken it. He demanded more than a 1st rounder (reportedly was seeking 2 1st rounders) for Mo in 2015 (no takers), then dropped that to just a lone 1st rounder in 2016 (again, no takers). 

Then he repeated this foolishness with a player he should have no interest in bringing back (Richardson) mid season this year. Dallas was very interested, until they caught wind of Maccagnan's insane demands of a 1st round pick minimum. Figuratively speaking, they laughed at him and hung up the phone.

He has poor understanding of players' values, and it's evident in his drafting and in his FA signings. Now he's in a position where he's got only 1 good OLman signed for the 2017 season. Two, if one includes Mangold at $9M, but that's a crazy premium to pay for a 1 year rental.

What a mess.

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, Larz said:

you promised me all the jets had to do was cut brick and replace him with a better younger LT and we would be ok

you promised

Lol

I said they wouldn't notice much of a dropoff, and they haven't. Not my fault MM traded away another draft pick for Clady.

[Larz]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Lol

I said they wouldn't notice much of a dropoff, and they haven't. Not my fault MM traded away another draft pick for Clady.

you said younger and better

[bostonmajet]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The "Brick retired" song is a silly one to sing since, absent the unlikely acceptance of a $6M pay cut MM demanded for 2016, Maccagnan was going to cut Brick anyway.

Breno stinks when totally healthy, and Maccagnan idiotically kept him around for $4.5M for the upside of half a season coming off injury. It was a no-brainer to cut him in August. Like anyone else was paying him that kind of money while injured. 

He thought it more important to draft Williams and still keep both Mo and Sheldon, turn away any offers he got for Mo because his head was up his ass about Mo's trade value (just like this season when he was demanding a 1st rounder for Sheldon). Then he drafted Lee who, his slow start aside, was a luxury pick for a team with needs at many high-dollar positions. It was a stupid selection for the Jets, who needed players at high-money positions not ones filled cheaply in free agency. 

The trade for Marshall suddenly isn't so great anymore, as reporters and fans are looking forward to the cap relief provided by cutting him than they are looking forward to his return in 2017.

Burris stinks. Even the interception -- the pass was underthrown by the 2 yards by which Burris was beaten. Maybe he'll be good in the future, but right now he's terrible. McDougle is irrelevant.

He signed FA Carpenter, arguably his single best move since becoming the Jets GM. That's it. Jenkins is unsigned for 2017, as is Winters, as is Ijalana. Again, the only OL we have signed, who'll be under 28 for the 2017 season, is Shell. That is sh*t-poor planning. Knowing the state of his OL - namely older starters he could expect a year or two out of out of the gate - he's drafted two 5th round picks (one cut long ago already) for the OL in his 2 years here. 

On balance, Idzik inherited a far worse situation than Maccagnan. A terrible roster and no cap room to work with upon arrival, unlike Maccagnan. The prior high draft picks he inherited were such gems as Kyle Wilson, Quinton Coples, Stephen Hill, and Vladimir Ducasse, so cry me a river about poor Maccagnan. Idzik's first draft in 2013 was a horrible draft class, particularly high up where we picked, unlike 2015 with the draft's best prospect falling to our selection. Idzik did a very poor job overall in the draft, and I don't argue he earned his dismissal, but so has Maccagnan. I could get past MM's FA signings as rookie GM mistakes if he was better at drafting college prospects.

Give him another year or two, lol.  Sure, like it's my call. Woody Johnson will undoubtedly give him another 4 years: one more year with Bowles, then 3 more years with his own hand-picked HC.

I've said before, if either Petty or Hackenberg pans out, I'll overlook every stupid thing he's done thus far as a means to an end.

Yeah, I get it, he should have transformed the entire team in one year; only have 7 picks - he should have forced GB to trade them Rodgers and give up a 1st to boot; ....

Idzik inherited worse - that is a joke; Brick, Mangold 2 years younger. Traded a broken Revis for a 1st - great move, but that team got significantly worse over the 2 years; so much so, nobody (and I mean nobody) thought dumping him after 2 years was a mistake - no fans, no talking head, nobody.

But, after inheriting a team of younger versions of some core players and drafting/signing so poorly that he was given the boot no questions asked, the team was clearly better? Really? If he took a crappy team and made it so much better that Mac inherited a better team.. you can't make this s*t up. Yeah, you convinced me...

[RSJ]

Mac has signed veterans who have performed at a high level very recently. Then this year they have performed horrible. Almost to the point where they look like they dont belong in the league. This make me hesitate in judging Mac's body of work. 

[CanadaSteve]

5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The "Brick retired" song is a silly one to sing since, absent the unlikely acceptance of a $6M pay cut MM demanded for 2016, Maccagnan was going to cut Brick anyway.

Breno stinks when totally healthy, and Maccagnan idiotically kept him around for $4.5M for the upside of half a season coming off injury. It was a no-brainer to cut him in August. Like anyone else was paying him that kind of money while injured. 

He thought it more important to draft Williams and still keep both Mo and Sheldon, turn away any offers he got for Mo because his head was up his ass about Mo's trade value (just like this season when he was demanding a 1st rounder for Sheldon). Then he drafted Lee who, his slow start aside, was a luxury pick for a team with needs at many high-dollar positions. It was a stupid selection for the Jets, who needed players at high-money positions not ones filled cheaply in free agency. 

The trade for Marshall suddenly isn't so great anymore, as reporters and fans are looking forward to the cap relief provided by cutting him than they are looking forward to his return in 2017.

Burris stinks. Even the interception -- the pass was underthrown by the 2 yards by which Burris was beaten. Maybe he'll be good in the future, but right now he's terrible. McDougle is irrelevant.

He signed FA Carpenter, arguably his single best move since becoming the Jets GM. That's it. Jenkins is unsigned for 2017, as is Winters, as is Ijalana. Again, the only OL we have signed, who'll be under 28 for the 2017 season, is Shell. That is sh*t-poor planning. Knowing the state of his OL - namely older starters he could expect a year or two out of out of the gate - he's drafted two 5th round picks (one cut long ago already) for the OL in his 2 years here. 

On balance, Idzik inherited a far worse situation than Maccagnan. A terrible roster and no cap room to work with upon arrival, unlike Maccagnan. The prior high draft picks he inherited were such gems as Kyle Wilson, Quinton Coples, Stephen Hill, and Vladimir Ducasse, so cry me a river about poor Maccagnan. Idzik's first draft in 2013 was a horrible draft class, particularly high up where we picked, unlike 2015 with the draft's best prospect falling to our selection. Idzik did a very poor job overall in the draft, and I don't argue he earned his dismissal, but so has Maccagnan. I could get past MM's FA signings as rookie GM mistakes if he was better at drafting college prospects.

Give him another year or two, lol.  Sure, like it's my call. Woody Johnson will undoubtedly give him another 4 years: one more year with Bowles, then 3 more years with his own hand-picked HC.

I've said before, if either Petty or Hackenberg pans out, I'll overlook every stupid thing he's done thus far as a means to an end.

I'm sorry Sperm but sometimes its just hard to take some of this stuff.  I mean, seriously, Burris stinks?  WOW.

We get it you hate Mac and want him replaced after two years, just like Idzik, and just like the next GM in two years.  

Good thing you are not a Raiders fan....you would have called for Mackenzie's head after 2-3 years.  How did that turn out?

[CanadaSteve]

8 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Literally all of the things that were problems when he got here are still problems now.

This is just simply not true.  We had if not the worse, one of the bottom five WR core in the league.  I would say we have one of the most promising now.  You are NOT fixing this in two seasons.  All the money signed two years ago was to keep us competitive; it worked too well last year.

We have a decent set of ILB's in Lee and Jenkins now, 1 promising CB in Burris, and hopefully a RT in Shell.  This is going to take 2 more drafts to start saying this team has a solid core of talent. 

[Dinnymac]

On 12/18/2016 at 6:46 PM, Jetster said:

Can Bowles & this staff develop young players? Woody better be asking that question. I haven't seen anything to tell me he can, I also believe Gailey is too old, and Kacey Rogers is one of the worst DCs in the league.

Jetster, I believe, is asking the right questions here.

I am sure that we would all agree that a big part of being a successful  NFL head coach is having the knowledge and the people and communication skills to hire a top tier/Professional coaching staff. Can Bowles accomplish this? Aside from Chan Gailey, (whotogether with Fitz, I thought could be good for the young QBs)  I just don't see it yet. Consecutive years of bad Special teams performance, despite the coaching change there, is obviously not good for the development of young players, many of whom start their careers on ST. The Defense has certainly underperformed (Perhaps Pepper Johnson would be a better DC?)

 Clearly there is a problem, the telltale signs are there of veterans stepping out of line at practice/meetings and the obvious lack of player effort being shown on game day.  

So, we as fans will start asking questions... Does Bowles have the confidence to align himself with experienced and smart football coaches who can develop and motivate both young players and the veteran players alike? Can Bowles successfully organize and lead this staff? It is not enough to just draft good players to be a successful program, you have to lead them to achieve their potential and the potential of the team as a whole. I don't expect Todd Bowles to be Bill Parcells, who brought with him- Belichick,Weiss, Crennel, Groh,Haley etc. but surely Bowles can put together a more respected coaching staff than the one presently in place. I suspect the veteran players think so too.

Personally, I like Todd Bowles, and while I wish to see him succeed, there seem to be many more questions than answers at this point.          

Jetster is right to say that Woody better be asking some questions too.

[jack48]

On 12/18/2016 at 5:02 PM, UnitedWhofans said:

I will also say that his draft picks actually played okay. Burris got a pick. Shell held up pretty well at RT.

The problem is that the media and fanbase want instant stardom instead of development so they turn their attention to Williams because he is a star

Burruss is physical but a little too prone to get beat deep.  I guess that is correctable.  Williams was a gem. Smith is a wreck so far but he never had a chance with Fitz trying to throw it downfield to him.  Hack is an unknown. Petty looks like he could be a decent backup---possibly. Not bad for a 4th pick.  Mauldin is probably not going to be a player.  I think Peake has possibilities but I would like to see them use his speed.  Lee?  Jenkins?  Both guys are pros.  Team is a mess, though.  Bowles does not develop players.  He is so hooked into vets.  But it is his job to integrate all of this. The problem from the outset has been a dearth of draft picks on the one hand, and too many teetering FA vets on  the other.  This goes back to the Mr T era.

[NoBowles]

8 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

I'm sorry Sperm but sometimes its just hard to take some of this stuff.  I mean, seriously, Burris stinks?  WOW.

We get it you hate Mac and want him replaced after two years, just like Idzik, and just like the next GM in two years.  

Good thing you are not a Raiders fan....you would have called for Mackenzie's head after 2-3 years.  How did that turn out?

You have to understand Sperm is an Agenda based poster. He is amazingly good at defending his agenda, not sure if he is a lawyer in real life, but if not, he missed his calling big time. Sperm very rarely takes a pro stance on any Jet player or FO guy, but he took a very pro Idzik stance. Sperm HATES to be wrong, so what he does is find reasons to prove he was right. So, he has gone on attack of Mac in defense of his pro Idzik stance. Pretty much the same can be said for dbatesman, except he is not nearly as good at it as Sperm is. Sperm willfully ignores anything that goes against his agenda, and will throw any piece of info no matter how strong or weak it is that supports his agenda. I give him a lot of credit, he is very, very good at it, and very convincing. But at the end of the day, you have to see it for what it is.

[southparkcpa]

10 hours ago, RSJ said:

Mac has signed veterans who have performed at a high level very recently. Then this year they have performed horrible. Almost to the point where they look like they dont belong in the league. This make me hesitate in judging Mac's body of work. 

MAC getting boxed in a corner to sign FITZ is troubling. Fitz was 5-0 with the Bills and failed.  History should have shown that Fitz would fail.  Was it Woody pushing him?  Who knows but the teams lack of comfort with Geno and the signing of FITZ shows the teams lack of commitment to rebuild.  

[Sperm Edwards]

14 hours ago, Larz said:

you said younger and better

So far they have improved the LT situation just by virtue of getting late-career Brick off the OL and off the books. Even Brick knew he wasn't good anymore, and more or less said as much in his goodbye speech. 

Just because he seems like a truly good guy (not unlike Bowles) doesn't therefore mean he was doing a good job on the Jets. Brick was an elite pass-blocker once. His last few seasons - the last 2 in particular - were hard to watch.

[Sperm Edwards]

11 hours ago, bostonmajet said:

Yeah, I get it, he should have transformed the entire team in one year; only have 7 picks - he should have forced GB to trade them Rodgers and give up a 1st to boot; ....

Idzik inherited worse - that is a joke; Brick, Mangold 2 years younger. Traded a broken Revis for a 1st - great move, but that team got significantly worse over the 2 years; so much so, nobody (and I mean nobody) thought dumping him after 2 years was a mistake - no fans, no talking head, nobody.

But, after inheriting a team of younger versions of some core players and drafting/signing so poorly that he was given the boot no questions asked, the team was clearly better? Really? If he took a crappy team and made it so much better that Mac inherited a better team.. you can't make this s*t up. Yeah, you convinced me...

No one expected that, despite your overexaggeration. He isn't even on the right track. There's fully half a starting team of holes (or relative holes) entering the 2017 season, and he'd spent big money trying to fill them. On so many of those positions - including the most important ones - we're not decidedly better than the day he arrived (if we're better at all, since he at least inherited a clean slate with those players cap-wise). 

Now there are still the same holes at, for example, QB, CB1, CB2, and there's not only an absolute 8-figure cap charge for players who likely won't be back in '17, but the 9 figures in cap charge he could have spent on good players with a longer future here beyond the 2015 season.

Now he's first going to look into drafting OL earlier than round 5? Year 3 is when the OTs he should have drafted in '15 should be entering year 3 and being real assets. Instead, we're going to be starting that search in 2017. 

All new GMs inherit crappy teams. That's why they were hired in the first place. So meh to that, since he at least inherited a crappy team with massive flexibility and a fan base that had low expectations for the 2015 season.

[Sperm Edwards]

9 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

I'm sorry Sperm but sometimes its just hard to take some of this stuff.  I mean, seriously, Burris stinks?  WOW.

We get it you hate Mac and want him replaced after two years, just like Idzik, and just like the next GM in two years.  

Good thing you are not a Raiders fan....you would have called for Mackenzie's head after 2-3 years.  How did that turn out?

Yes, Burris stinks so far. After his performance Saturday night, this is not the time to argue otherwise. Again, the only reason he even got his 1 pick is because he was beaten by 2 yards and the pass was underthrown by 2 yards. A decent throw by a not-Matt-Moore, and Burris is beaten for yet another deep pass, and possibly another long TD at that.

I don't hate Mac. I do think he's done a pretty bad job so far on balance, even if I like a couple of individual things.

[bostonmajet]

28 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No one expected that, despite your overexaggeration. He isn't even on the right track. There's fully half a starting team of holes (or relative holes) entering the 2017 season, and he'd spent big money trying to fill them. On so many of those positions - including the most important ones - we're not decidedly better than the day he arrived (if we're better at all, since he at least inherited a clean slate with those players cap-wise). 

Now there are still the same holes at, for example, QB, CB1, CB2, and there's not only an absolute 8-figure cap charge for players who likely won't be back in '17, but the 9 figures in cap charge he could have spent on good players with a longer future here beyond the 2015 season.

Now he's first going to look into drafting OL earlier than round 5? Year 3 is when the OTs he should have drafted in '15 should be entering year 3 and being real assets. Instead, we're going to be starting that search in 2017. 

All new GMs inherit crappy teams. That's why they were hired in the first place. So meh to that, since he at least inherited a crappy team with massive flexibility and a fan base that had low expectations for the 2015 season.

Easy to say all of this, but there is no LT available in the early 1 worth drafting (at least not now) - he can only draft what is there. The same goes for QB; I get that a lot of people don't like the Hack pick, but it is not like he passed on Geoff, Winston, etc. He passed on Lynch - maybe that was a mistake, but clearly he didn't rate him that high. And for all of those complaining that you don't draft a QB in the second and not sit him for a year, look what is happening in Denver with their 1st - but Mac sucks.

Yes there is still a hole at QB, CB1, CB2 but places he drafted now don't have the hole. Get it? He picked all of those WRs and LBs to fill other holes.

As far as striking out on FAs they all had 2 year deals (basically) and now these overpriced guys will be gone. You make is sound like 2009 Revis, A. Rodgers and Dummerville were available for reasonable contracts and he past on them. You can only draft who is available, you can only sign who is available.

Should he have overpaid to get Osweiler? You guys sound like quality, long-term FA are just sitting around waiting for a reasonable contract. Most of these FAs are overpriced or their own teams would have signed them (yes there are exceptions). He made one long term quality signing in Carpenter, the rest of his FAs were 2 year rentals. I have a news flash for you, this year he is going to have to sign more 2 year rentals. And he will keep having to do that until he can build a team with the draft; with his 7 picks. Hopefully along the line we will sign a real value long term FA here or there, but this is the reality.

This team had no depth and no QB (really) and an aging OL when Idzik took over. It was a 3-4 year rebuild then. After 2 years of crap, do you think things got better or worse? As he tried to rebuild, the OL got even older. You can't replace everyone at once. We are in the 2nd year of the rebuild and it is painful. You want to point out where he could have done better, whatever. But to say stuff like the team still has holes - shocker.

Guess what after years of trying to control carbon emissions, we still have a global warmer threat; what? didn't fix this in 2 years? crazy (this is just my snide sarcasm - not meant to start a political fight  )

[phill1c]

Wow, Same Ol' Jets fan: takes a positive and turns it into a negative.

Burris is a ROOKIE and just now getting significant playing time. So, he stinks because he got beat?! You know what they say, "if you can't stand to rebuild, don't cry about the old vets sucking..." Cant' have it both ways.

[phill1c]

2 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

Easy to say all of this, but there is no LT available in the early 1 worth drafting (at least not now) - he can only draft what is there. The same goes for QB; I get that a lot of people don't like the Hack pick, but it is not like he passed on Geoff, Winston, etc. He passed on Lynch - maybe that was a mistake, but clearly he didn't rate him that high. And for all of those complaining that you don't draft a QB in the second and not sit him for a year, look what is happening in Denver with their 1st - but Mac sucks.

Yes there is still a hole at QB, CB1, CB2 but places he drafted now don't have the hole. Get it? He picked all of those WRs and LBs to fill other holes.

As far as striking out on FAs they all had 2 year deals (basically) and now these overpriced guys will be gone. You make is sound like 2009 Revis, A. Rodgers and Dummerville were available for reasonable contracts and he past on them. You can only draft who is available, you can only sign who is available.

Should he have overpaid to get Osweiler? You guys sound like quality, long-term FA are just sitting around waiting for a reasonable contract. Most of these FAs are overpriced or their own teams would have signed them (yes there are exceptions). He made one long term quality signing in Carpenter, the rest of his FAs were 2 year rentals. I have a news flash for you, this year he is going to have to sign more 2 year rentals. And he will keep having to do that until he can build a team with the draft; with his 7 picks. Hopefully along the line we will sign a real value long term FA here or there, but this is the reality.

This team had no depth and no QB (really) and an aging OL when Idzik took over. It was a 3-4 year rebuild then. After 2 years of crap, do you think things got better or worse? As he tried to rebuild, the OL got even older. You can't replace everyone at once. We are in the 2nd year of the rebuild and it is painful. You want to point out where he could have done better, whatever. But to say stuff like the team still has holes - shocker.

Guess what after years of trying to control carbon emissions, we still have a global warmer threat; what? didn't fix this in 2 years? crazy (this is just my snide sarcasm - not meant to start a political fight  )

Sorry to steal your thunder with a post immediately after it. Excellent post!!

[NoBowles]

3 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

Easy to say all of this, but there is no LT available in the early 1 worth drafting (at least not now) - he can only draft what is there. The same goes for QB; I get that a lot of people don't like the Hack pick, but it is not like he passed on Geoff, Winston, etc. He passed on Lynch - maybe that was a mistake, but clearly he didn't rate him that high. And for all of those complaining that you don't draft a QB in the second and not sit him for a year, look what is happening in Denver with their 1st - but Mac sucks.

Yes there is still a hole at QB, CB1, CB2 but places he drafted now don't have the hole. Get it? He picked all of those WRs and LBs to fill other holes.

As far as striking out on FAs they all had 2 year deals (basically) and now these overpriced guys will be gone. You make is sound like 2009 Revis, A. Rodgers and Dummerville were available for reasonable contracts and he past on them. You can only draft who is available, you can only sign who is available.

Should he have overpaid to get Osweiler? You guys sound like quality, long-term FA are just sitting around waiting for a reasonable contract. Most of these FAs are overpriced or their own teams would have signed them (yes there are exceptions). He made one long term quality signing in Carpenter, the rest of his FAs were 2 year rentals. I have a news flash for you, this year he is going to have to sign more 2 year rentals. And he will keep having to do that until he can build a team with the draft; with his 7 picks. Hopefully along the line we will sign a real value long term FA here or there, but this is the reality.

This team had no depth and no QB (really) and an aging OL when Idzik took over. It was a 3-4 year rebuild then. After 2 years of crap, do you think things got better or worse? As he tried to rebuild, the OL got even older. You can't replace everyone at once. We are in the 2nd year of the rebuild and it is painful. You want to point out where he could have done better, whatever. But to say stuff like the team still has holes - shocker.

Guess what after years of trying to control carbon emissions, we still have a global warmer threat; what? didn't fix this in 2 years? crazy (this is just my snide sarcasm - not meant to start a political fight  )

spot on

[Beerfish]

I agree with Sperm about Burris, the big problem I saw?  Zero recovery speed. To his credit he made a pick which is a skill in itself but he was cooked twice where he let a guy get behind him and then he could not recover speed wise.  Then again I feel for all of secondary because we have awful awful schemes and coaching in that regard.

[phill1c]

Just now, Beerfish said:

I agree with Sperm about Burris, the big problem I saw?  Zero recovery speed. To his credit he made a pick which is a skill in itself but he was cooked twice where he let a guy get behind him and then he could not recover speed wise.  Then again I feel for all of secondary because we have awful awful schemes and coaching in that regard.

Yeah, I think it's likely not zero recovery speed. I think it's a lack of experience. With experience you use your talent better. Right now, he's just happy to be getting reps.

[Beerfish]

11 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

Easy to say all of this, but there is no LT available in the early 1 worth drafting (at least not now) - he can only draft what is there. The same goes for QB; I get that a lot of people don't like the Hack pick, but it is not like he passed on Geoff, Winston, etc. He passed on Lynch - maybe that was a mistake, but clearly he didn't rate him that high. And for all of those complaining that you don't draft a QB in the second and not sit him for a year, look what is happening in Denver with their 1st - but Mac sucks.

Yes there is still a hole at QB, CB1, CB2 but places he drafted now don't have the hole. Get it? He picked all of those WRs and LBs to fill other holes.

As far as striking out on FAs they all had 2 year deals (basically) and now these overpriced guys will be gone. You make is sound like 2009 Revis, A. Rodgers and Dummerville were available for reasonable contracts and he past on them. You can only draft who is available, you can only sign who is available.

Should he have overpaid to get Osweiler? You guys sound like quality, long-term FA are just sitting around waiting for a reasonable contract. Most of these FAs are overpriced or their own teams would have signed them (yes there are exceptions). He made one long term quality signing in Carpenter, the rest of his FAs were 2 year rentals. I have a news flash for you, this year he is going to have to sign more 2 year rentals. And he will keep having to do that until he can build a team with the draft; with his 7 picks. Hopefully along the line we will sign a real value long term FA here or there, but this is the reality.

This team had no depth and no QB (really) and an aging OL when Idzik took over. It was a 3-4 year rebuild then. After 2 years of crap, do you think things got better or worse? As he tried to rebuild, the OL got even older. You can't replace everyone at once. We are in the 2nd year of the rebuild and it is painful. You want to point out where he could have done better, whatever. But to say stuff like the team still has holes - shocker.

Guess what after years of trying to control carbon emissions, we still have a global warmer threat; what? didn't fix this in 2 years? crazy (this is just my snide sarcasm - not meant to start a political fight  )

It's his job to be a LOT better than a bean counter GM.  The Jury is out on a lot of picks and he is being imo badly hamstrung by a craptacular coaching staff.  In the end though whether it is fair or not his QB picks will sink him or float him.  It is his job to find those gem players like a Prescott and he may not have known it at he time but he has taken a hug risk with the Hack pick because that one will be stapled to his forehead if he does not find a franchise Qb elsewhere.

[Augustiniak]

7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

It's his job to be a LOT better than a bean counter GM.  The Jury is out on a lot of picks and he is being imo badly hamstrung by a craptacular coaching staff.  In the end though whether it is fair or not his QB picks will sink him or float him.  It is his job to find those gem players like a Prescott and he may not have known it at he time but he has taken a hug risk with the Hack pick because that one will be stapled to his forehead if he does not find a franchise Qb elsewhere.

the hack pick is clearly a ballsy pick and says that mccags believes he'll be around a while there to guide the development of these players.  it's the opposite of a band-aid, panic move.  i like the balls, and i truly hope they know how to develop him.

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, southparkcpa said:

MAC getting boxed in a corner to sign FITZ is troubling. Fitz was 5-0 with the Bills and failed.  History should have shown that Fitz would fail.  Was it Woody pushing him?  Who knows but the teams lack of comfort with Geno and the signing of FITZ shows the teams lack of commitment to rebuild.  

You're hired as a GM for the Jets to rebuild, and you go 10-6, almost make the playoffs, and had many people believing you could have done some damage if you had made the playoffs.  Would YOU have had the stones to come out the following season, not sign the record-breaking Fitzpatrick (I KNOW I KNOW, but....), and handed the keys to Geno Smith? 

 

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yes, Burris stinks so far. After his performance Saturday night, this is not the time to argue otherwise. Again, the only reason he even got his 1 pick is because he was beaten by 2 yards and the pass was underthrown by 2 yards. A decent throw by a not-Matt-Moore, and Burris is beaten for yet another deep pass, and possibly another long TD at that.

I don't hate Mac. I do think he's done a pretty bad job so far on balance, even if I like a couple of individual things.

We'll just disagree on Burris.  For a 4th rounder pressed for starting duty, I think he has shown enough to AT LEAST be in the conversation for a potential #2/slot CB in the next two years. 

[#27TheDominator]

38 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I agree with Sperm about Burris, the big problem I saw?  Zero recovery speed. To his credit he made a pick which is a skill in itself but he was cooked twice where he let a guy get behind him and then he could not recover speed wise.  Then again I feel for all of secondary because we have awful awful schemes and coaching in that regard.

I don't know what to think of Burris.  He spun the wrong way more than once, but he probably looked better than Marcus Williams who was everyone's pet the past couple of years.  It's hard to complain about him letting guys behind him when you don't know the scheme.  Pretty sure that on the pick there was a safety back there, so presumably he was supposed to trail.  The jury is out, 

48 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

 

Yes there is still a hole at QB, CB1, CB2 but places he drafted now don't have the hole. Get it? He picked all of those WRs and LBs to fill other holes.

As far as striking out on FAs they all had 2 year deals (basically) and now these overpriced guys will be gone. You make is sound like 2009 Revis, A. Rodgers and Dummerville were available for reasonable contracts and he past on them. You can only draft who is available, you can only sign who is available.

When I rent something for 2 years, I don't usually have to pay $15M in the third year.  What happened?  We aren't getting our security deposit back?  

The only WRs he drafted were Charone Peake and Devin Smith.  Peake seems okay for a 7th, but Smith is looking awfully bust-y,  You can give him credit for bringing in Anderson and Brandon Marshall, but Marshall was paid almost $20M to come here and pretend whatever sh*tty QB we trotted out there was good.  Long term we are looking at Decker and hoping these UDFA's continue to pan out.  Don't get me started on the LBs.  He paid Harris a ton of money and drafted a safety sized guy to replace him.  I know he has a great story, but Mauldin does not appear to be an every down player and while Jenkins was supposedly "NFL ready" I was pining for Calvin Pace when I was watching Carlos Hyde jog around the edge.  These guys still may pan out, but I think it is pretty telling that those two are sitting while Freddy Bishop and Bruce Carter are getting run. 

It may be too early to tell, but early returns are not good.

[southparkcpa]

14 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

You're hired as a GM for the Jets to rebuild, and you go 10-6, almost make the playoffs, and had many people believing you could have done some damage if you had made the playoffs.  Would YOU have had the stones to come out the following season, not sign the record-breaking Fitzpatrick (I KNOW I KNOW, but....), and handed the keys to Geno Smith? 

 

Im in the minority but yes.  We were going no where with FITZ.  Id rather save the $12 mil,  lets be certain geno is as terrible as we thought.  I would never let a player hold me hostage the way Revis has done twice.   I know its rear view but I would have front view. I never liked the FITZ signing.  He has NEVER performed well in a big spot.  Why go 9-7 with him?? 

[JetBlue]

On 12/18/2016 at 6:34 PM, AFJF said:

Worst thing Mac did was refuse to give Bilal Powell more playing time, especially when you look at how the offense performed last season when he became a focal point down the stretch.

 

 

 

 

 

Macc determines playing time?