will our terrible gm and terrible coach be given another pass?

[Gee Andrezzi]

I like Bowles a lot cause he won a super bowl with the redskins as a starting safety and for his demeanor (very belichick-like how he deals with the media) but the game against Pittsburgh said a lot about him as a coach.

down multiple touchdowns in the 4th quarter and you choose to punt the ball instead of going for it on 4th and short around the 50 yard line? And that's one of many questionable decisions he made this season during a game. (bringing in fitz to replace geno after he got hurt in the ravens game instead of petty that game)

he has to prove he's the right coach for the job this season

[BrickTamland]

McCagnan might suck. But it's not like he just decided to have a crap qb. No legit FA QB and he was dealt a crap qb in geno and he signed a vet who then looked surprisingly good. The following year the same player sucked. Whatcha gonna do.

In the meantime he has taken a couple of swings in the draft. Petty still unknown but not very inspiring. Hackenberg is the same but magnified due to second round status.

Bowles is a lost cause to me. Hope I'm wrong.

 

 

[Gee Andrezzi]

12 minutes ago, BrickTamland said:

McCagnan might suck. But it's not like he just decided to have a crap qb. No legit FA QB and he was dealt a crap qb in geno and he signed a vet who then looked surprisingly good. The following year the same player sucked. Whatcha gonna do.

In the meantime he has taken a couple of swings in the draft. Petty still unknown but not very inspiring. Hackenberg is the same but magnified due to second round status.

Bowles is a lost cause to me. Hope I'm wrong.

 

 

McCagnan does suck.. he brought fitz in just because he worked in Houston as a scout at the time fitz was there. Fitz didn't look good in Houston either. He looked just like he has his entire career. Good at first and then completely bad after. McCagnan knew what he was getting in Fitz and still resigned him to a one year deal for $12 mill. McCagnan deserves just as much blame for this. He could've played hardball with fitz but gave in

 

[AFJF]

So right...Mac showed up with enough draft picks to overhaul the entire 53-man roster in 2 years.  C'mon Mac...get with it.

[kmnj]

2 hours ago, section314 said:

Just curious, how many years have you had your seats?

in the "new stadium" since day one with the psls

in the "old met life" since they moved there so day one as well-first my father had seats then I took over and got more

in shea dad was there since they pretty much started there-I went there as a tiny kid with my father

 

 

 

 

[kmnj]

6 minutes ago, AFJF said:

So right...Mac showed up with enough draft picks to overhaul the entire 53-man roster in 2 years.  C'mon Mac...get with it.

mac showed up with money to spend as cap was freeing up and some draft picks-he did poorly on both

the team instead of growing under his watch is heading south fast-his drafts have been poor, his contract FA pick ups pretty poor as well

We will open up the season with an abysmal team and lacking quality players at almost every position-he is the Freaking GM that is on him-how many years should he get? Keep in mind the avg NFL player only lasts 3-4 years so after three years if he roster sucks that is entirely on him

[AFJF]

Just now, kmnj said:

mac showed up with money to spend and some draft picks-he did poorly on both

the team instead of growing under his watch is heading south fast-his drafts have been poor, his contract FA pick ups pretty poor as well

We will open up the season with an abysmal team and lacking quality players at almost every position-he is the Freaking GM that is on him-how many years should he get? Keep in mind the avg NFL player only lasts 3-4 years so after three years if he roster sucks that is entirely on him

Everyone knows that the best time to evaluate a draft class is at the 1 and 2 year mark.

[#27TheDominator]

16 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Everyone knows that the best time to evaluate a draft class is at the 1 and 2 year mark.

With Idzik, this was true.  When the entire draft class is cut, you can judge it.  Guys like Burris, Mauldin, Jenkins, Shell, Peake - those guys get the 3 year window.  Even Devin Smith gets another camp.  So far Maccagnan's drafts seem underwhelming, but the jury is still out.

[JustInFudge]

24 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Everyone knows that the best time to evaluate a draft class is at the 1 and 2 year mark.

Considering the average shelf life of an NFL player is 3 years, this is exactly when you start to evaluate the draft class.  The evaluation starts the second they walk through the doors.

So far, Mac has Leo.  And Leo is very good at Football.  Unfortunately, Leo can only play one position at a time even though I'm thoroughly confident he's the best QB on the roster. 

[section314]

25 minutes ago, kmnj said:

in the "new stadium" since day one with the psls

in the "old met life" since they moved there so day one as well-first my father had seats then I took over and got more

in shea dad was there since they pretty much started there-I went there as a tiny kid with my father

 

 

 

 

38 years here. We've both suffered much with this damn team, but for some crazy reason, I have a feeling that this combo is going to work.  Macc will be judged by Hackenberg, and I think he's gonna be right. Either way, don't bail, we've gone through too much to quit now.

[AFJF]

Just now, JiF said:

Considering the average shelf life of an NFL player is 3 years, this is exactly when you start to evaluate the draft class.  The evaluation starts the second they walk through the doors.

So far, Mac has Leo.  And Leo is very good at Football.  Unfortunately, Leo can only play one position at a time even though I'm thoroughly confident he's the best QB on the roster. 

Start the evaluation?  Absolutely.  So far, Lee, Jenkins, Burris, Shell, Peake, Mauldin and Simon have done enough to show that they may grow in to good NFL football players while Leo is already a stud.

This is with D. Smith, Petty and Hack with some time to show something, no matter how unlikely it may be.

Compare that to our past GM's and many around the league, and that's not a bad haul after two drafts.

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, AFJF said:

Start the evaluation?  Absolutely.  So far, Lee, Jenkins, Burris, Shell, Peake, Mauldin and Simon have done enough to show that they may grow in to good NFL football players while Leo is already a stud.

This is with D. Smith, Petty and Hack with some time to show something, no matter how unlikely it may be.

Compare that to our past GM's and many around the league, and that's not a bad haul after two drafts.

I do not share the same confidence as you in the players you've listed.  Partly because I'm a Jets fan but partly because they're not very good Football players .

[Mogglez]

4 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Start the evaluation?  Absolutely.  So far, Lee, Jenkins, Burris, Shell, Peake, Mauldin and Simon have done enough to show that they may grow in to good NFL football players while Leo is already a stud.

This is with D. Smith, Petty and Hack with some time to show something, no matter how unlikely it may be.

Compare that to our past GM's and many around the league, and that's not a bad haul after two drafts.

Add Anderson to that list.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, JiF said:

I do not share the same confidence as you in the players you've listed.  Partly because I'm a Jets fan but partly because they're not very good Football players .

Bad reason

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Bad reason

Being a Jets fan is a bad reason to not have faith in players on the team?

I feel like it's the best reason because Jets. 

[AFJF]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

I do not share the same confidence as you in the players you've listed.  Partly because I'm a Jets fan but partly because they're not very good Football players .

That's your right.  I watched the games and saw them do some things that showed they can play.  Now, how well they can play over time based on growth/maturation that comes with experience remains to be seen.

I just know that Lee showed excellent closing speed that will hopefully be enhanced with experience as he gets more comfortable in the scheme.  I saw Jenkins pick up a few sacks late in the season when things appeared to slow down for him a little bit.  I loved what I saw from Burris in TC and really thought he should've gotten on the field much earlier than he did.  When he finally got out there, I saw some good and some bad, which wasn't shocking from a mid-round rookie.  Shell far exceeded my expectations and looked very good against some of the best D-linemen in the NFL in his few starts.  Mauldin was in the dog house after a terrible pre-season but worked his way back in to the regular rotation and looked better than he did early on.  Peake...impossible to grade the guy.  When you're the 5th/6th receiver on a team with bottom 3 QB play, how much is he really going to do?  Simon looked damn good late in the season, so not sure why you don't think he's a good football player.

Oh, and Leo.

 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, JiF said:

Being a Jets fan is a bad reason to not have faith in players on the team?

I feel like it's the best reason because Jets. 

It's a bad reason because it doesn't make any sense logically. The suckiness of Rich Kotite has no impact on this team. (you will probably insert a Bowles comment here).

Each season is relatively a new story; a new cast of characters.

[#27TheDominator]

16 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Start the evaluation?  Absolutely.  So far, Lee, Jenkins, Burris, Shell, Peake, Mauldin and Simon have done enough to show that they may grow in to good NFL football players while Leo is already a stud.

This is with D. Smith, Petty and Hack with some time to show something, no matter how unlikely it may be.

Compare that to our past GM's and many around the league, and that's not a bad haul after two drafts.

If you are evaluating, I am certainly not giving plus grades to Lee, Jenkins Burris, Peake or Mauldin.  You can't make a final determination on any of them, but Mauldin looks particularly disappointing.  Shell looked decent at the end of the year.  Simon was a good pick for a 7th, but I factor in that he was cut and sitting there for anybody for most of his rookie year.  

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

If you are evaluating, I am certainly not giving plus grades to Lee, Jenkins Burris, Peake or Mauldin.  You can't make a final determination on any of them, but Mauldin looks particularly disappointing.  Shell looked decent at the end of the year.  Simon was a good pick for a 7th, but I factor in that he was cut and sitting there for anybody for most of his rookie year.  

Jordan Jenkins was ranked well by PFF. Good at setting the edge.

I don't know why people hate on Burris. I think he played better than Revis last year.

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, AFJF said:

That's your right.  I watched the games and saw them do some things that showed they can play.  Now, how well they can play over time based on growth/maturation that comes with experience remains to be seen.

I just know that Lee showed excellent closing speed that will hopefully be enhanced with experience as he gets more comfortable in the scheme.  I saw Jenkins pick up a few sacks late in the season when things appeared to slow down for him a little bit.  I loved what I saw from Burris in TC and really thought he should've gotten on the field much earlier than he did.  When he finally got out there, I saw some good and some bad, which wasn't shocking from a mid-round rookie.  Shell far exceeded my expectations and looked very good against some of the best D-linemen in the NFL in his few starts.  Mauldin was in the dog house after a terrible pre-season but worked his way back in to the regular rotation and looked better than he did early on.  Peake...impossible to grade the guy.  When you're the 5th/6th receiver on a team with bottom 3 QB play, how much is he really going to do?  Simon looked damn good late in the season, so not sure why you don't think he's a good football player.

Oh, and Leo.

 

I too watch the games and agree that sometimes players change but usually they dont.

Lee is a spectator.  If that ever changes, I'll be very surprised.  Jenkins is a JAG.  He's not a pass rusher, never will be and he was terrible at setting the edge which was supposed to be his strength.  Burris didnt play because Revis and Skrine are really good vets that Todd Bowles loves.  Shell looks ok.  Maudlin is misused but is probably nothing more than a situational pass rusher.  Peake is a probably a JAG because he's a JAG.   Simon looks like an ok option for 2 downs. 

I like Robbie Anderson. 

Leo. 

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

It's a bad reason because it doesn't make any sense logically. The suckiness of Rich Kotite has no impact on this team. (you will probably insert a Bowles comment here).

Each season is relatively a new story; a new cast of characters.

50 years of proof says otherwise. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, JiF said:

50 years of proof says otherwise. 

The Saints sucked for years too. How much does that "proof" mean?

You honestly just said that you believe in curses.

[JustInFudge]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

The Saints sucked for years too.

Do the Jets have Drew Brees on their roster?  Maybe I missed that signing.

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Jordan Jenkins was ranked well by PFF. Good at setting the edge.

I don't know why people hate on Burris. I think he played better than Revis last year.

Who is hating on him?  I just didn't see anything to hang my hat on.  He may be a player.  He isn't one yet.  IMO, Anderson has shown more than pretty much all those guys.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, JiF said:

Do the Jets have Drew Brees on their roster?  Maybe I missed that signing.

By your own law, Drew Brees should have sucked for the Saints. He didn't.

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

Do the Jets have Drew Brees on their roster?  Maybe I missed that signing.

It wasn't you that missed it.  It was Tannenbaum.  Patrick Ramsey indeed. 

[jack48]

5 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I've written Bowels off already after that sad display last year.  As for Mac,  this is his big prove it year.  He has to totally nail the early part of the draft and sign good value FA's

Mac put tpgether a team that might have gotten to the playoffs last year if Fitz could have just ridden his magic carpet a little further.  His mistake was not realizing that it was all smoke and mirrors, so he lost a year by hanging on to these guys.  This is definitely a priove it year for him.  What I saw of Bowles prep and game manaagement the last two years, I have no hope for him.

[AFJF]

14 minutes ago, JiF said:

I too watch the games and agree that sometimes players change but usually they dont.

Lee is a spectator.  If that ever changes, I'll be very surprised.  Jenkins is a JAG.  He's not a pass rusher, never will be and he was terrible at setting the edge which was supposed to be his strength.  Burris didnt play because Revis and Skrine are really good vets that Todd Bowles loves.  Shell looks ok.  Maudlin is misused but is probably nothing more than a situational pass rusher.  Peake is a probably a JAG because he's a JAG.   Simon looks like an ok option for 2 downs. 

I like Robbie Anderson. 

Leo. 

I guess a lot of it depends on what you expect out of a young player.  For me, it's pretty basic.  Flash the ability to be able to make plays in the NFL that will hopefully, in time, be a more consistent occurrence.  I don't get worried when a guy needs a couple of seasons to blossom.  It's fairly common.

Idzik's guys were on the field an awful lot early on, and they largely looked completely lost and over-matched on a regular basis.  The current crop of young guys look like what they are.  Young guys getting their feet wet and learning to play in the NFL, doing something on occasion that gives me hope that they'll be long-term contributors.

I'm good with that.

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Idzik sucked.  I hated him as much as anyone.  OTOH, when he left there was enough money to spend on 3 CBs a top line S, a decent priced LB, a QB and WR, and the #6 pick in the draft.  This roster is on Maccagnan.  Idzik's roster was on him.  The money he cleared was set to be cleared by Tannenbaum too.  There was no master stroke. 

well, yes, mac's roster is mac's roster but that still doesn't give him all the blame for the current makeup.  imagine if idzik hadn't drafted milliner (or if he was an ironman) we wouldn't be talking about revis' contract.  or how about if idziks 2 second rounders panned out?  what if stephen hill panned out?  the point is that many of mac's moves were made because of the bad moves that idzik made.  obviously this is the year we'll be able to judge mac properly.  the jets need a good draft. fwiw, i didn't see many people complaining when mac came in and signed revis, skrine, gilchrist, etc.  i also didn't hear them complain when they finished 10-6 in 2015.  it happens.

[#27TheDominator]

32 minutes ago, rangerous said:

well, yes, mac's roster is mac's roster but that still doesn't give him all the blame for the current makeup.  imagine if idzik hadn't drafted milliner (or if he was an ironman) we wouldn't be talking about revis' contract.  or how about if idziks 2 second rounders panned out?  what if stephen hill panned out?  the point is that many of mac's moves were made because of the bad moves that idzik made.  obviously this is the year we'll be able to judge mac properly.  the jets need a good draft. fwiw, i didn't see many people complaining when mac came in and signed revis, skrine, gilchrist, etc.  i also didn't hear them complain when they finished 10-6 in 2015.  it happens.

Where were you?  Believe me, we were ******* complaining about the price on those deals.  We were complaining then and complaining now.  I was actually complaining that they didn't extend Fitzpatrick mid-2015 because it seemed like his price was going up and I was afraid what it was going to take.  I believe my limit was $8M.  Pay attention.  Sperm, me, plenty of these guys complain all the time.  You just have to listen. 

[Scoop24]

56 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Jordan Jenkins was ranked well by PFF. Good at setting the edge.

I don't know why people hate on Burris. I think he played better than Revis last year.

Burris played much better the end of the season .. I hope he continues to progress . 

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Where were you?  Believe me, we were ******* complaining about the price on those deals.  We were complaining then and complaining now.  I was actually complaining that they didn't extend Fitzpatrick mid-2015 because it seemed like his price was going up and I was afraid what it was going to take.  I believe my limit was $8M.  Pay attention.  Sperm, me, plenty of these guys complain all the time.  You just have to listen. 

where was i?  being realistic.  it's not my money.  outside of the revis deal, the other ones were reasonable.  as for fitz, mac's mistake there was letting him sign at the beginning of training camp.  fitz needed to be in all of those spring ota's.  by not being there, geno was able to fracture the team.  imo there was sheldon, pryor and geno being very vocal on one side.  most of the rest probably could care less.  and then there was marshall and decker on the other.

and don't forget that there are two sides to every contract.  just because mac may have wanted to extend fitz doesn't mean that fitz wanted to be extended or for the money mac was offering. and let's not forget they chose to give wilk a huge contract that may not have been warranted given his performance during the season.  but even there, the general feeling was to pay wilk the money.

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, rangerous said:

where was i?  being realistic.  it's not my money.  outside of the revis deal, the other ones were reasonable.  as for fitz, mac's mistake there was letting him sign at the beginning of training camp.  fitz needed to be in all of those spring ota's.  by not being there, geno was able to fracture the team.  imo there was sheldon, pryor and geno being very vocal on one side.  most of the rest probably could care less.  and then there was marshall and decker on the other.

and don't forget that there are two sides to every contract.  just because mac may have wanted to extend fitz doesn't mean that fitz wanted to be extended or for the money mac was offering. and let's not forget they chose to give wilk a huge contract that may not have been warranted given his performance during the season.  but even there, the general feeling was to pay wilk the money.

It's not your money?  It's not Maccagnan's money either.  I wouldn't care if salaries total three billion, as long as there was still room under the cap.  Overpaying those guys leaves us in a sh*t position.  In all honesty, paying Revis probably made more sense that the others.  At least he had a resume to indicate he deserved it.  Cro got $8M coming off a $3M year.  WTF? Skrine? Guy has always been highly penalized and he is a fidget.  Gilchrist a failed CB without much resume at safety.  I guess he wanted Harris to QB the D, but I thought we were looking to get faster.  

IMO if Fitzpatrick was looking for more than $8M, he could suck it.  That was even overpaying IMO. Nobody else was lining up to sign that bearded chicken arm.  Mac's mistake with Fitzpatrick was signing him so late and signing him for so much.  Both mistakes were his.

What the **** were Sheldon, Pryor and Geno vocal about?  

[rangerous]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

It's not your money?  It's not Maccagnan's money either.  I wouldn't care if salaries total three billion, as long as there was still room under the cap.  Overpaying those guys leaves us in a sh*t position.  In all honesty, paying Revis probably made more sense that the others.  At least he had a resume to indicate he deserved it.  Cro got $8M coming off a $3M year.  WTF? Skrine? Guy has always been highly penalized and he is a fidget.  Gilchrist a failed CB without much resume at safety.  I guess he wanted Harris to QB the D, but I thought we were looking to get faster.  

IMO if Fitzpatrick was looking for more than $8M, he could suck it.  That was even overpaying IMO. Nobody else was lining up to sign that bearded chicken arm.  Mac's mistake with Fitzpatrick was signing him so late and signing him for so much.  Both mistakes were his.

What the **** were Sheldon, Pryor and Geno vocal about?  

you are certainly welcome to your opinion regarding the players mac signed.  at the time they were thought to be solid, except revis was a head scratcher because of the guaranteed money.

what were sheldon, pryor and geno vocal about? imo, they were vocal about fitz coming in and taking the team away from geno.  i will give geno credit for attending all of the ota's and the job was his until fitz strolled in the first day of training camp.  i'd be pissed too.

[Sperm Edwards]

10 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

It's not your money?  It's not Maccagnan's money either.  I wouldn't care if salaries total three billion, as long as there was still room under the cap.  Overpaying those guys leaves us in a sh*t position.  In all honesty, paying Revis probably made more sense that the others.  At least he had a resume to indicate he deserved it.  Cro got $8M coming off a $3M year.  WTF? Skrine? Guy has always been highly penalized and he is a fidget.  Gilchrist a failed CB without much resume at safety.  I guess he wanted Harris to QB the D, but I thought we were looking to get faster.  

IMO if Fitzpatrick was looking for more than $8M, he could suck it.  That was even overpaying IMO. Nobody else was lining up to sign that bearded chicken arm.  Mac's mistake with Fitzpatrick was signing him so late and signing him for so much.  Both mistakes were his.

This post is lovely, except that it's about the team we root for, unfortunately.

They were terrible signings, but at least I could get the idea of Skrine and/or Gilchrist because they were at least younger players who'd theoretically be good for the entirety of their contracts (if they worked out). The rest? Every one of them getting top dollar for their position, and all of them on the wrong side of 30, so they were investments in players you knew on signing-day that you'd be throwing out soon. 

The reason you don't sign Fitzpatrick for $12m is there's no turning back. There is no competition. There is no awarding of starting jobs due to merit. There is no going to someone else at any time before elimination, barring injury, because they bent over naked after 5 months of standoffs to hand him starter money. They weren't benching him until he'd deep-6'd the season, and even then they were remarkably stubborn about letting either of Maccagnan's QB draft picks onto the field.

Frankly he doesn't paint the picture of someone who was qualified for the job. He calmly sips from that freaking coffee cup, and his controlled demeanor gives the false pretense of competence. If Hackenberg becomes a really good QB then I'll happily eat my words and build a shrine to him. I suspect even he knows that's not happening, which is why he's going to invest heavily in another QB this offseason (either in FA, by trade, or at the top of the draft).