Nothing on the tiny backer?

[CanadaSteve]

12 hours ago, SenorGato said:

I honestly don’t care who is in charge so long as they pick up one or two QBs this offseason. Between FA and the draft there is zero reason for the Jets to not have a passing game next year. All they need to do to find a passer and a pass rusher through the draft is the opposite of what the franchise has always done. The Jets have always been willing to spend a little in FA and there could/should be two really good veteran QBs available. 

 

 

Agreed.  If Enunwa comes back, that will be great.  But Kearse, Stewart and Jenkins are a good start.  We will see what Leggett can do, and if we pick up a solid FA receiver, we will be fine.  Would be great to have a couple of real QB's to try as well.

[redlichtie]

13 hours ago, LionelRichie said:

we are looking for a path to the super bowl and I don't see it with the "talent" that Macc has accumulated in 3 drafts and ton of $ in FA.   hell, we are paying revis $6M to sit on his ass and watch the games from his couch.   

Macc has demonstrated that he doesn't understand today's NFL.   he seems to grade all positions equally and doesn't weight players according to positional importance.   I will never understand "liking" mahomes and watson but not at #6 and then drafting a freaking safety.  You can get a safety in rd 2 (see Maye, Marcus).   

so lee is playing better, as a jet fan i think that's great.  he's still not a game changer and guy that you gameplan around.   that's what we should be looking for in 1st rd picks.  

No offence Lionel but you should stick to dancing on the ceiling. How do you not gameplan around a fast LB who can make impact plays in the backfield, get sacks, drop into coverage and be disruptive? With every improved performance from Lee opposing OC’s will absolutely be beginning to realise they need to try to neutralise his possible impact. Sometimes they will be successful, that’s how the game is, the others get paid too etc but to say nobody is going to be paying attention to Lee if he continues improving is nonsense.

and then there;s this ‘game changer’ Business ...those absolute top tier, upper echelon ‘difference makers’ very rarely sit on the board after the top 10 picks. Lee was selected at 20, down at that end of the first round you are primarily looking for long term starters who can be above average as a base starting point with the potential to become elite at their position over time, if you strike oil at that position then great but let’s not act like players drafted from 18 onwards are expected to be instant first ballot HOF inductees the moment they step on the field. We need to be realistic here

[redlichtie]

12 hours ago, LionelRichie said:

it's more of a theme with macc - his 1st rd picks so far are DT, ILB (tiny), S - none of which are impact positions in today's NFL.   if i was GM I probably would have rolled the dice on WR consecutive picks after lee.  

my big problem with Macc was the '17 draft where we could have traded down and added an '18 1st or taken mahomes or watson.   both of those QB's would have provide hope to a fan base desperate for a future.   right now the team is overachieving but at best treading water. 

this team needs game changers - QB, WR, OLB, OT.   what has Macc done to address those positions?   we have a $17M JAG at DE, $6M in revis sitting on his couch, and $6M in dead money for TB's backup QB.     

We are going to have close to 90M in cap space next year and it’s likely that only the perennial clusterfvck that is Cleveland willl be anywhere near as flexible with the cap come the offseason.

how many draft picks were you giving up to trade into the top 2 positions of the draft to get the aforementioned ‘game-changers’?...you sacrificing all semblance of depth for 1 guy who may or may not bust?....who was that 1 guy?

we tried that before with Tannenbaum, it was all we ever heard on Jets message boards that our lack of depth and pissing away valuable draft picks is what ultimately cost us(and probably cost him his job)

can’t have it all ways, this is a different approach and it does require some patience. In the meantime we are competitive against all rational expectations in a season we were told we had the worst owner, the worst GM, the worst HC, the worst roster, the worst talent, the worst everything in the league....yet here we are 4-5 [probably should be 6-3 and basking in the glow of one of the most satisfyingly comprehensive and fully merited wins in our recent history....all on national TV too

the Sky is not falling

[redlichtie]

43 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Induct him to Canton

Solid analysis

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

We are going to have close to 90M in cap space next year and it’s likely that only the perennial clusterfvck that is Cleveland willl be anywhere near as flexible with the cap come the offseason.

Actually, a sh*t-ton of teams are going have comparable cap space next year. 

 

[redlichtie]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Actually, a sh*t-ton of teams are going have comparable cap space next year. 

 

Just posting a list on it’s own without context doesn’t necessarily tell the full story, Key free agents that need re-signing on some of those rosters will impact those numbers. We know the Jets aren’t really in that position, perhaps Mo Claiborne but beyond that we don’t have to worry about committing huge amounts to maintain most of the core of our roster. That will not necessarily be the case elsewhere. We are in good shape going forward

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, redlichtie said:

Just posting a list on it’s own without context doesn’t necessarily tell the full story, Key free agents that need re-signing on some of those rosters will impact those numbers. We know the Jets aren’t really in that position, perhaps Mo Claiborne but beyond that we don’t have to worry about committing huge amounts to maintain most of the core of our roster. That will not necessarily be the case elsewhere. We are in good shape going forward

We will have money to spend, but in even the most optimistic scenarios, that money will have to go to the most expensive positions in football: QB, EDGE, CB, WR. Other teams, not so much.

[Philc1]

13 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Actually, a sh*t-ton of teams are going have comparable cap space next year. 

 

Yes but how many of those teams will be signing McCown to a 3-year $50 million extension?

[redlichtie]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

We will have money to spend, but in even the most optimistic scenarios, that money will have to go to the most expensive positions in football: QB, EDGE, CB, WR. Other teams, not so much.

For sure we will but that 58M cap number for Washington I’m pretty sure doesn’t include the 30M that it’s going to cost them to hold onto Kirk Cousins...that’s just one example, so respectfully, I have to disagree...I can’t be arsed to go through the entire league...some will, one or two maybe not

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Yes but how many of those teams will be signing McCown to a 3-year $50 million extension?

And with how many of those teams will the coach get into a bidding war with the GM for the QB’s services?

[Philc1]

Just now, redlichtie said:

For sure we will but that 58M cap number for Washington I’m pretty sure doesn’t include the 30M that it’s going to cost them to hold onto Kirk Cousins...that’s just one example, so respectfully, I have to disagree...I can’t be arsed to go through the entire league...some will, one or two maybe not

Or the $18 million we give McCown next season

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, redlichtie said:

For sure we will but that 58M cap number for Washington I’m pretty sure doesn’t include the 30M that it’s going to cost them to hold onto Kirk Cousins...that’s just one example, so respectfully, I have to disagree...I can’t be arsed to go through the entire league...some will, one or two maybe not

I’m not picking on your point I particular. I just see the “we have cap space!” talking point repeatedly tossed out there like we’re somehow unique in having any.

[Philc1]

Just now, T0mShane said:

And with how many of those teams will the coach get into a bidding war with the GM for the QB’s services?

We’re the jets. 7-9 and no playoffs and no shot at drafting a qb basically equals Super Bowl for us

[dbatesman]

19 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Actually, a sh*t-ton of teams are going have comparable cap space next year. 

 

No they won’t. Also no one else will be looking for a QB in the draft, so we’ll def get the best one

[Philc1]

Just now, dbatesman said:

no one else will be looking for a QB in the draft, so we’ll def get the best one

Oh really?

[T0mShane]

Just now, dbatesman said:

No they won’t. Also no one else will be looking for a QB in the draft, so we’ll def get the best one

And while we don’t have as many draft picks as several rebuilding teams, we have an excellent track record of maximizing value on draft picks.

[chirorob]

44 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

True....but to play devils advocate, and for the sake of open dialogue.  I was VERY upset with the Darron Lee pick.  Since Paxton Lynch fell, I wanted us to take him.  If we took him, he would have been a completely wasted draft pick in the 1st round.  The guy cannot beat out Trevor Siemien and Brock Osweiller.  And we complain about Hack!

So, does he get a passing grade (Mac) because he passed on a QB, even though he was graded as a first rounder, and took a player that is now contributing?  Or do we still give him grief because he didn't pull the trigger on Lynch?  The next question then is this?  Is Mac just afraid now to pull the trigger on a QB, knowing that if the next one bomb's, his ass is gone?  If that is why he didn't pull the trigger, than that could be a concern, because sooner or later, you have to draft someone.

I made this comment in another thread: This was my only concern of Mac when hired: He comes from an organization that has totally ignored the QB position draft wise for over a decade.  They chose to sign FA QB's while dabbling in 6 round possibilities at the position.  What gets me is they appeared to be gun-shy after drafting Carr with the first overall pick, but the issue wasn't Carr: It was the fact he got murdered without an O-Line.  They then signed Schaub to big money, and kept going with a stop-gap.  They then finally took another chance at QB in the first round and found Watson.  In actuality, hitting with a QB in the first round at a 50 percent rate is pretty damn good!

It is time for our GM to grow a sack and take a shot at a QB in the first round. 

Yes, I give him a passing grade on not taking a QB who looks like a bust, and taking a player that is making plays.

 

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Yes, I give him a passing grade on not taking a QB who looks like a bust, and taking a player that is making plays.

 

I was saying two years ago Paxton Lynch would suck.  He’s even worse than I thought he’d be

[redlichtie]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’m not picking on your point I particular. I just see the “we have cap space!” talking point repeatedly tossed out there like we’re somehow unique in having any.

That’s fair enough, i’m Just pointing out that the list you posted may not tell the whole story where some teams are concerned. I’ve spent most of my Jet supporting life dreading the off-season because of the impending ‘cap-dance’ that we almost always had to do. And we didn’t especially have great rosters then either. I prefer being in this position if it means we can keep improving our roster and getting better. I’d be surprised if we aren’t in significantly better shape than most come the offseason. We are not in a bad place 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, redlichtie said:

That’s fair enough, i’m Just pointing out that the list you posted may not tell the whole story where some teams are concerned. I’ve spent most of my Jet supporting life dreading the off-season because of the impending ‘cap-dance’ that we almost always had to do. And we didn’t especially have great rosters then either. I prefer being in this position if it means we can keep improving our roster and getting better. I’d be surprised if we aren’t in significantly better shape than most come the offseason. We are not in a bad place 

I mean, we’re in a bad place because we don’t have talent, and that why we have cap space. And, despite this week’s euphoria, I can’t imagine Todd Bowles ends the season as the local media darling he is right now, so you’re going to try and sell the team to first-tier free agents with the pitch, “hey, we lack talent all over the field and our coach is a lame duck, but peep these viral dance videos our defense made in early November.”

[redlichtie]

The ‘we don’t have talent’ line that I keep seeing trotted out is bogus, we are not the 95 Cowboys but there is some core talent....and future free agents will go where the money is...come on, you are better than this

[CrazyCarl40]

16 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

That’s fair enough, i’m Just pointing out that the list you posted may not tell the whole story where some teams are concerned. I’ve spent most of my Jet supporting life dreading the off-season because of the impending ‘cap-dance’ that we almost always had to do. And we didn’t especially have great rosters then either. I prefer being in this position if it means we can keep improving our roster and getting better. I’d be surprised if we aren’t in significantly better shape than most come the offseason. We are not in a bad place 

And the Jets have players of their own they need to resign too. And a few young players they should be looking to lock up before free agency is even a thing for them to consider. I doubt Macc thinks that far ahead though. He already butchered the Winters and Mo deals. 

[redlichtie]

10 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

And the Jets have players of their own they need to resign too. And a few young players they should be looking to lock up before free agency is even a thing for them to consider. I doubt Macc thinks that far ahead though. He already butchered the Winters and Mo deals. 

Who?...we have no talent right?

[T0mShane]

11 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

The ‘we don’t have talent’ line that I keep seeing trotted out is bogus, we are not the 95 Cowboys but there is some core talent....and future free agents will go where the money is...come on, you are better than this

The money is...in 15 different markets, at least. The Jets are one of those, and unless you’re saying the Jets should simply outbid those other 15 teams for, say, Alex Smith and Larry Fitzgerald, I’m not sure that having $80 mil matters that much more than having $50 mil. Recall that Macc had a tremendous spending advantage in 2014 and gave it to Marcus Gilchrist and Buster Skrine. 

 

As for the talent, I made a thread on here a few weeks ago looking at the 2018 roster. It’s not particularly awe-inspiring. 

 

[CrazyCarl40]

4 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

Who?...we have no talent right?

https://overthecap.com/free-agency/new-york-jets/

Do your own research. 

[Apache 51]

And I was hoping we would have smaller, quicker ILB's to cover the middle where the Patriots make their money.

[redlichtie]

4 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

https://overthecap.com/free-agency/new-york-jets/

Do your own research. 

Weak

[redlichtie]

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The money is...in 15 different markets, at least. The Jets are one of those, and unless you’re saying the Jets should simply outbid those other 15 teams for, say, Alex Smith and Larry Fitzgerald, I’m not sure that having $80 mil matters that much more than having $50 mil. Recall that Macc had a tremendous spending advantage in 2014 and gave it to Marcus Gilchrist and Buster Skrine. 

 

As for the talent, I made a thread on here a few weeks ago looking at the 2018 roster. It’s not particularly awe-inspiring. 

 

So there’s no advantage to having 30M more cap space than any other team? Really?

don’t disagree btw that you have to spend that wisely...no more Buster Skrine’s for sure but ditching Mac on that basis is throwing the baby out with the bath water 

[detectivekimble]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

We will have money to spend, but in even the most optimistic scenarios, that money will have to go to the most expensive positions in football: QB, EDGE, CB, WR. Other teams, not so much.

Hence why it's good to draft those positions early on.  Good safeties can be had in FA without breaking the bank.

[CrazyCarl40]

27 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

Weak

Yes. Yes you are. 

[detectivekimble]

15 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

So there’s no advantage to having 30M more cap space than any other team? Really?

don’t disagree btw that you have to spend that wisely...no more Buster Skrine’s for sure but ditching Mac on that basis is throwing the baby out with the bath water 

There is, but the Jets also need to re-sign a few guys that other teams will be interested in.  Demario Davis is having a good year on the field AND is a great locker room guy.  ASJ is still getting better and has the physical talent to be one of the best TEs in the league.  Claiborne is a good CB and good CBs are hard to find.

[dbatesman]

33 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

don’t disagree btw that you have to spend that wisely...no more Buster Skrine’s for sure but ditching Mac on that basis is throwing the baby out with the bath water 

What’s the baby in this metaphor?

[redlichtie]

20 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Yes. Yes you are. 

Lol, i don’t need google to tell me what our roster looks like, meanwhile i’m still waiting for you to name all those fantastically talented and expensive impending free-agents on our roster that we won’t have enough cap space to re-sign

knock yourself out mate

[dbatesman]

33 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

don’t disagree btw that you have to spend that wisely...no more Buster Skrine’s for sure but ditching Mac on that basis is throwing the baby out with the bath water 

What’s the baby in this metaphor?

[CrazyCarl40]

24 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

Lol, i don’t need google to tell me what our roster looks like, meanwhile i’m still waiting for you to name all those fantastically talented and expensive impending free-agents on our roster that we won’t have enough cap space to re-sign

knock yourself out mate

You obviously do. I never said anything about not having room to sign anyone there strawman. I just said that some of the “war chest” will have to be used to bring back some of the players that should be. I provided you a list of impending free agents. There is more than a handful that need to be resigned. Plus, they’ll need cap room for a new draft class. But you know all of that.