Parting Ways With O-Line Coach was Right Move for Bowles, Jets

[Scott Dierking]

31 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

I know everyone is sh!tting on Bowles lately, and much of it is justified, but to me this isn't scapegoating. Bowles already got his extension. 

To me this is Bates picking the assistants that he wants. He's supposedly going to bring in a running game coordinator. I suspect his new O-Line coach will likely serve in that role. 

Yes it is absolutely THIS.

Those that want the club to go out and make statements on everything (moves, player transgressions) are absolutely pandering to their very own agendas of "nothing is done right, so I will pile on". The Jets are a privately owned entity, and they owe you very little in terms of how they are conducting their operations. And rightly so. Because there are 31 other entities that they compete with, and providing them insight into your inner workings gives those clubs an advantage over you. Some of the same people that skewered (rightly so) Rex Ryan for this approach, now again want transparency. Guess what, it is not happening.

And in terms of a supposed scapegoating campaign, guess again. Bowles is charged in creating a staff that he feels best fits his vision. With the thoughts of some here, his is a no win situation. Do nothing, and he is termed content with the current record. Make moves and he is scapegoating. Ridiculous.

Last year is over. Move on. I guarantee Bowles has. He will be judged on 2018. And if 2018 is deemed "successful" to whatever the organization feels that is, then be judged on 2019. Rightly so.

 

 

[Sonny Werblin]

I'm baffled. So, they players are sh*tty,.... and the coaches are terrible, .... and the GM doesn't know what he's doing? Yet they won 5 games when most questioned whether they would even win 1.

So, either the players weren't as sh*tty as most thought .... and the GM deserves credit. Or, the HC really coached up a bunch of no talent players.... and Bowles deserves credit. Frankly, I think it is a little of both.

As to the firing of O line coach Steve Marshall, IMO this was the product of promoting Bates to OC. He gets a say as to the O staff, and I would imagine that based on his promotion to OC, Bowles would value his opinion. This is not a scapegoat move, it's how the world works. Bates gets a say as to who works under him, and he clearly thinks there are better options. 

[JustInFudge]

The only reason this makes sense is because you have new OC who might want to bring in his own offensive coaching staff, if Todd is allowing him to do so.

Otherwise, it's definitely a scapegoat move, just like Morton was.  As mentioned in another thread, Baldinger broke down the Jets scheme and was extremely complimentary of what they were doing given the talent.   Basically said they were running some of the most advanced and technical schemes in the NFL. 

How come the underachieving sh*tty D is steady as a rock solid from a coaching perceptive?  All 3 levels of the defense is horrible, absolutely horrible and nobody has to worry about their job? 

[Bugg]

12 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I'm baffled. So, they players are sh*tty,.... and the coaches are terrible, .... and the GM doesn't know what he's doing? Yet they won 5 games when most questioned whether they would even win 1.

So, either the players weren't as sh*tty as most thought .... and the GM deserves credit. Or, the HC really coached up a bunch of no talent players.... and Bowles deserves credit. Frankly, I think it is a little of both.

As to the firing of O line coach Steve Marshall, IMO this was the product of promoting Bates to OC. He gets a say as to the O staff, and I would imagine that based on his promotion to OC, Bowles would value his opinion. This is not a scapegoat move, it's how the world works. Bates gets a say as to who works under him, and he clearly thinks there are better options. 

5 games? WOW! Throw a parade, fire up the grill,  pack a cooler, get some fireworks, celebrate mediocrity!

[Bleedin Green]

4 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I didn’t create any mystical storyline. You misinterpreted my post. I’m sorry you have reading comprehension problems. Next time I’ll try to do it at a lower reading level so that you can fully understand what I meant. Here I’ll try now:

Bowles bad. Macc bad. Both should be fired. Firing throw and run and block coaches when the tackle coaches are worse is lol. 

Hope you get it now!

So when you said "Its a scapegoat move" I clearly misinterpreted that to mean you were saying its a scapegoat move, which apparently you were not.  That totally clears things up... I don't know what I was thinking!

[Scott Dierking]

48 minutes ago, JiF said:

The only reason this makes sense is because you have new OC who might want to bring in his own offensive coaching staff, if Todd is allowing him to do so.

Otherwise, it's definitely a scapegoat move, just like Morton was.  As mentioned in another thread, Baldinger broke down the Jets scheme and was extremely complimentary of what they were doing given the talent.   Basically said they were running some of the most advanced and technical schemes in the NFL. 

How come the underachieving sh*tty D is steady as a rock solid from a coaching perceptive?  All 3 levels of the defense is horrible, absolutely horrible and nobody has to worry about their job? 

1. Of course the new O coordinator has a say in who is his assistants will be. I am sure that was part of the interview process.

2. Scapegoating is done when someone is trying to protect their position. Bowles is secure with a new extension. If he was looking to "scapegoat", he would have done this before that, in an effort to draw attention away from himself. There is no reason now.

3. Do we really care that much what Brian Baldinger says? If it was so advanced and technical, why were the results not better?

4. I am sure that Bowles knows that the ultimate record of performance resides with him. His leash is as short as any others, and he knows it. He ie making his own bed, and will rest with who he feels best fills his mission. He will live and die that way, as it should be.

5. What can you tell me on Ja'Juan Seider?

[Scott Dierking]

17 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

So when you said "Its a scapegoat move" I clearly misinterpreted that to mean you were saying its a scapegoat move, which apparently you were not.  That totally clears things up... I don't know what I was thinking!

He needs a scapegoat for being extended. because, that makes sense, right?

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

1. Of course the new O coordinator has a say in who is his assistants will be. I am sure that was part of the interview process.

2. Scapegoating is done when someone is trying to protect their position. Bowles is secure with a new extension. If he was looking to "scapegoat", he would have done this before that, in an effort to draw attention away from himself. There is no reason now.

3. Do we really care that much what Brian Baldinger says? If it was so advanced and technical, why were the results not better?

4. I am sure that Bowles knows that the ultimate record of performance resides with him. His leash is as short as any others, and he knows it. He ie making his own bed, and will rest with who he feels best fills his mission. He will live and die that way, as it should be.

5. What can you tell me on Ja'Juan Seider?

1.  We dont know Bates role in selecting the offensive staff.  It could be all Todd.  Who knows? I'm sure Bates has his say but I dont doubt for 1 minute Todd has the final stamp of approval. He's running the show.

2.  Disagree.  How do you know that part of agreement when he received the extension was he told Johnson he was going to turnover the offense? There have been grumblings for a while. 

3.  I typically listen to guys who played the position in the NFL and take their word for what they see before some dbags on a message board, so yes, I value his opinion when he breaks down tape on the entire league's OLine play.  I think the results had a lot to do with having the worst OL talent in the league. 

4.  That was very poetic.

5. I know he is supposedly a solid recruiter.  I know Mullen asked him to move to TE coach and he refused because he wanted to stay a RB's coach.  I know the offense at Florida since he's been there has been the worst it's ever been.  That said, the lone bright spot on the offense was the play of the RB's despite horrific QB play so, who knows, maybe he's good at his job.  Hard to judge when the offense has been anemic for years. 

[Scott Dierking]

5 minutes ago, JiF said:

1.  We dont know Bates role in selecting the offensive staff.  It could be all Todd.  Who knows? I'm sure Bates has his say but I dont doubt for 1 minute Todd has the final stamp of approval. He's running the show.

2.  Disagree.  How do you know that part of agreement when he received the extension was he told Johnson he was going to turnover the offense? There have been grumblings for a while. 

3.  I typically listen to guys who played the position in the NFL and take their word for what they see before some dbags on a message board, so yes, I value his opinion when he breaks down tape on the entire league's OLine play.  I think the results had a lot to do with having the worst OL talent in the league. 

4.  That was very poetic.

5. I know he is supposedly a solid recruiter.  I know Mullen asked him to move to TE coach and he refused because he wanted to stay a RB's coach.  I know the offense at Florida since he's been there has been the worst it's ever been.  That said, the lone bright spot on the offense was the play of the RB's despite horrific QB play so, who knows, maybe he's good at his job.  Hard to judge when the offense has been anemic for years. 

Conjecture on the majority of these points. I know, conjecture occurs on both fronts.

[freestater]

2 hours ago, sourceworx said:

I know everyone is sh!tting on Bowles lately, and much of it is justified, but to me this isn't scapegoating. Bowles already got his extension. 

To me this is Bates picking the assistants that he wants. He's supposedly going to bring in a running game coordinator. I suspect his new O-Line coach will likely serve in that role. 

Logic? This is the Jets we're talking about...?

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Conjecture on the majority of these points. I know, conjecture occurs on both fronts.

Of course it is.  I'm just trying to read between the lines.  

The offense was better than the defense despite an ungodly focus on building the D but everyone on D is safe and Todd is turning over the entire O, again?

It makes zero sense.   Other than to point at the O and scream, they're the problem!!!
 

[C Mart]

2 hours ago, sourceworx said:

I know everyone is sh!tting on Bowles lately, and much of it is justified, but to me this isn't scapegoating. Bowles already got his extension. 

To me this is Bates picking the assistants that he wants. He's supposedly going to bring in a running game coordinator. I suspect his new O-Line coach will likely serve in that role. 

Dennison. See my post in KRL’s Shanahan’s Offense Influence thread. It will all make sense if Dennison is named the OL/running game coach. 

[flgreen]

IMO unquestionably the OL has been neglected by the FO.  That's why it's bad.  The reasons for firing  Marshal are 2 fold.  1) Bates is the new OC, and wants a guy that can implement the Shanahan blocking scheme   2) The OL is bad, and he's the fall guy.

The Jets are going in this direction to lure Kirk Cousins here

[varjet]

2 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I've said this before, I think Wesley Johnson had Wayne Hunter syndrome. Guy came in at the end of last year, played OK, and seemed like he could be the starter. Then he became the starter and mucked it up.

 

A team that self-scouts itself well would have known that?

Pay Johnson $2mm+ for one year as opposed to drafting Elflein or Pocic for 1/4 of that for 4 years?  Bad judgment.

[sourceworx]

38 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Dennison. See my post in KRL’s Shanahan’s Offense Influence thread. It will all make sense if Dennison is named the OL/running game coach. 

I didn't even know they were interviewing Rick Dennison. It makes sense though. He has connections to both Bates and Maccagnan.

[Scott Dierking]

43 minutes ago, JiF said:

Of course it is.  I'm just trying to read between the lines.  

The offense was better than the defense despite an ungodly focus on building the D but everyone on D is safe and Todd is turning over the entire O, again?

It makes zero sense.   Other than to point at the O and scream, they're the problem!!!
 

Well, then that will be Bowles downfall. He know it is on him, and his is an entire team responsibility.

Again, as it should be.

[C Mart]

15 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

I didn't even know they were interviewing Rick Dennison. It makes sense though. He has connections to both Bates and Maccagnan.

Great point! Dennison was OC in Houston under Kubiak (shanahan connection) 

It’s been reported Jets are interested in Dennison. I’m not sure if anything has been set up but it all makes sense if he comes aboard. 

[UnitedWhofans]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

A team that self-scouts itself well would have known that?

Pay Johnson $2mm+ for one year as opposed to drafting Elflein or Pocic for 1/4 of that for 4 years?  Bad judgment.

Pocic is a guard isn’t he in the league right now?

[UnitedWhofans]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

Of course it is.  I'm just trying to read between the lines.  

The offense was better than the defense despite an ungodly focus on building the D but everyone on D is safe and Todd is turning over the entire O, again?

It makes zero sense.   Other than to point at the O and scream, they're the problem!!!
 

They were overall, but not down the stretch. And that is what people remember. The narrative on the offense seems to be that it was because of McCown. And this is seemingly validated because when he went down the offense went into the tank

[CrazyCarl40]

3 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

1. Of course the new O coordinator has a say in who is his assistants will be. I am sure that was part of the interview process.

2. Scapegoating is done when someone is trying to protect their position. Bowles is secure with a new extension. If he was looking to "scapegoat", he would have done this before that, in an effort to draw attention away from himself. There is no reason now.

3. Do we really care that much what Brian Baldinger says? If it was so advanced and technical, why were the results not better?

4. I am sure that Bowles knows that the ultimate record of performance resides with him. His leash is as short as any others, and he knows it. He ie making his own bed, and will rest with who he feels best fills his mission. He will live and die that way, as it should be.

5. What can you tell me on Ja'Juan Seider?

If you think that extension makes Bowles secure, then you’re just lying to yourself. 

4 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

So when you said "Its a scapegoat move" I clearly misinterpreted that to mean you were saying its a scapegoat move, which apparently you were not.  That totally clears things up... I don't know what I was thinking!

Again, is Bowles not scapegoating the offense for his own and the defenses failures? It can be both. I’m not sure what you’re not understanding but I’m just going to let this one go because I’m not sure I can talk in circles with you anymore. It’s innane. 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said:

They were overall, but not down the stretch. And that is what people remember. The narrative on the offense seems to be that it was because of McCown. And this is seemingly validated because when he went down the offense went into the tank

Nobody thinks this way except for you.  It's the dumbest take you're ever had.  Especially when you're Bryce Petty'd to end the season.

I thought the narrative was that the Jets wouldnt win a game because Josh McCown is the QB? They won 5 and it was offense that won those games.  That should be weighted more in Morton's favor.  He was doing his job much better than Todd and Rodgers do theirs.  But it wasnt and it has nothing to do with ending a wasted season with no offense because your QB cant complete passes for 3 weeks.

 

 

[Scott Dierking]

41 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

If you think that extension makes Bowles secure, then you’re just lying to yourself. 

Again, is Bowles not scapegoating the offense for his own and the defenses failures? It can be both. I’m not sure what you’re not understanding but I’m just going to let this one go because I’m not sure I can talk in circles with you anymore. It’s innane. 

I am not sure you understand the definition of scapegoat. Carry on.

[CrazyCarl40]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I am not sure you understand the definition of scapegoat. Carry on.

By firing the offensive staff and not touching the defensive staff, what do you think he’s doing? If you want to sit here and have a discussion about diction or anything like that, that’s not what I’m here for. I’m here to talk about football. Todd Bowles is a bad coach. Mike Maccagnan is a very bad GM. Let’s move on. 

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

By firing the offensive staff and not touching the defensive staff, what do you think he’s doing? If you want to sit here and have a discussion about diction or anything like that, that’s not what I’m here for. I’m here to talk about football. Todd Bowles is a bad coach. Mike Maccagnan is a very bad GM. Let’s move on. 

 

If you are saying you used the wrong word, I agree.

The rest is opinion and that is fine.

[SenorGato]

6 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

By firing the offensive staff and not touching the defensive staff, what do you think he’s doing? 

Replacing a weak staff on the far more inportant side of the ball.

Jets were a top 5 defense two years ago with most of the same staff. The offense has never done that and last year’s stuff wasn’t even close. 

[CrazyCarl40]

1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said:

 

If you are saying you used the wrong word, I agree.

The rest is opinion and that is fine.

That’s not what I’m saying at all. The word choice was fine, your interpretation of my words is where you’re wrong. I have yet to see how or why you think my word choice is wrong, other than because you say so. But, again, let’s just move past basic English that you can not grasp and talk football. 

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, CrazyCarl40 said:

That’s not what I’m saying at all. The word choice was fine, your interpretation of my words is where you’re wrong. I have yet to see how or why you think my word choice is wrong, other than because you say so. But, again, let’s just move past basic English that you can not grasp and talk football. 

If you read above, and had comprehension, you would see it. I can't hold your hand here. 

[CrazyCarl40]

Just now, SenorGato said:

Replacing a weak staff on the far more inportant side of the ball.

Replacing the staff he just hired? Cool. 

[C Mart]

15 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

By firing the offensive staff and not touching the defensive staff, what do you think he’s doing? If you want to sit here and have a discussion about diction or anything like that, that’s not what I’m here for. I’m here to talk about football. Todd Bowles is a bad coach. Mike Maccagnan is a very bad GM. Let’s move on. 

Staff?  As of today, it’s been the OC & OL. The rest of the O staff, as of today, is still in tact ie WR, TE, RB, Asst OL, Asst QB, O Assts  

Asst DB coach has been replaced. Reportedly, McCutcheon wanted to be closer to his family in LA so he’s been replaced by Steve Jackson. Ex-DB for TN and DB coach for Wash/TN. Was Safties coach for Sean Taylor 

[SenorGato]

1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Replacing the staff he just hired? Cool. 

It is cool! This doesn’t make it any less a good idea. 

[Scott Dierking]

2 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Replacing the staff he just hired? Cool. 

Here is the thing, sometimes you make bad hires. In that case, the best thing to do is get rid of them quickly. It happens.

Bowles will be judged on his actions moving forward, and will be accountable. For that, he gets to choose whom he wants to do battle with..

[CrazyCarl40]

5 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Staff?  As of today, it’s been the OC & OL. The rest of the O staff, as of today, is still in tact ie WR, TE, RB, Asst OL, Asst QB, O Assts  

He replaced the coordinator for the side of the ball he cares not about. That seems pretty important no matter how you slice it. 

4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Here is the thing, sometimes you make bad hires. In that case, the best thing to do is get rid of them quickly. It happens.

Bowles will be judged on his actuons moving forward, and will be accountable. For that, he gets to choose whom he wants to do battle with..

The Jets made bad hires at coach and GM three years ago. Why hasn’t that been rectified? He’s always gotten to choose who he goes to battle with and he’s whiffed three times. At some point, you have to realize that the problem is bigger than the guy calling plays on offense. 

8 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

If you read above, and had comprehension, you would see it. I can't hold your hand here. 

I wouldn’t want you to. There’s nothing wrong about what I said. 

[#27TheDominator]

I don't get what all the bickering about.  This is happy news for Jets fans.  They are talking up Bates as a pass-first OC that doesn't have much experience and will probably get a "running game coordinator" to coach along side him.  This clears the way for a higher profile Tom Cable/Bill Callahan style Assistant HC/Running Game Coordinator/OLine coach.  Cable might have been a likely choice if he didn't run off to join Gruden with the Raiders. 

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

He replaced the coordinator for the side of the ball he cares not about. That seems pretty important no matter how you slice it. 

The Jets made bad hires at coach and GM three years ago. Why hasn’t that been rectified? He’s always gotten to choose who he goes to battle with and he’s whiffed three times. At some point, you have to realize that the problem is bigger than the guy calling plays on offense. 

I wouldn’t want you to. There’s nothing wrong about what I said. 

Listen, Bowles is the Head Coach for 2018. You can cry, bitch and moan about until the cows come home and it is not going to change it. 

You also know what, Bowles knows there is pressure for him to win and make the team better. He is going to do that in his best vision, regardless whether someone else thinks it is a "scapegoating" move.

The fact that someone may think that is stupifying, but here we are talking about it. Carry on.

[CrazyCarl40]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't get what all the bickering about.  This is happy news for Jets fans.  They are talking up Bates as a pass-first OC that doesn't have much experience and will probably get a "running game coordinator" to coach along side him.  This clears the way for a higher profile Tom Cable/Bill Callahan style Assistant HC/Running Game Coordinator/OLine coach.  Cable might have been a likely choice if he didn't run off to join Gruden with the Raiders. 

They also said the last OC was pass first and Bowles didn’t like it. They can talk Bates up as much as they want, but he was really the only resort for a lame duck coach who no one else outside of the organization is going to stake their coaching career to. 

1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said:

Listen, Bowles is the Head Coach for 2018. You can cry, bitch and moan about until the cows come home and it is not going to change it. 

You also know what, Bowles knows there is pressure for him to win and make the team better. He is going to do that in his best vision, regardless whether someone else thinks it is a "scapegoating" move.

The fact that someone may think that is stupifying, but here we are talking about it. Carry on.

Do you think Bowles should still have his job? There is pressure to win every year. All I’m hearing from you is rhetoric. This is a results driven league. So far, the results have been poor. And Bowles firing offensive coaches, for whatever reason, is laughable when the defense has been more invested in and worse than it’s counterpart.