For the fire MAC guys, he set us up well.

[Mike135]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

 

More realistically, Macc really wanted Cousins, but Kirk used the Jets as leverage to get a little more money out of Minnesota. 

I don't buy it.

[sec101row23]

3 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

I actually don't think this is true.

He spent all of last year obsessed with Darnold.  Making many trips to go see him.

I think he knew what would get the deal done with Cousins and did just enough to appear as though he was trying, without actually getting him.

Remember, much of the foolish sports media/"experts" and most of our fan base wanted Cousins.  I couldn't believe what I was seeing.  

Thankfully Macc saw through the BS and just humored the fans/media.  That's a sign of a great kanager/leader.

Might even come in handy when determining what to do with Bowles.

Lol...so he offered almost $100 million guaranteed to Cousins to appear he was trying?   You can’t possibly believe that.  

[sec101row23]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

More realistically, Macc really wanted Cousins, but Kirk used the Jets as leverage to get a little more money out of Minnesota. 

Do you really think Macc was some kind of mastermind in all of this?  That he had no fear that Cousins would "call his bluff" and accept the offer?

If that’s true and he didn’t really want Cousins then playing chicken with $100 million dollars is even more stupid than trying to sign Cousins to begin with.  

[Mike135]

Just now, sec101row23 said:

Lol...so he offered almost $100 million guaranteed to Cousins to appear he was trying?   You can’t possibly believe that.  

I do.  I'm surprised you believe Macc didn't want Sam the whole time since he was visting Darnold almost every other week.

[FidelioJet]

5 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

I actually don't think this is true.

He spent all of last year obsessed with Darnold.  Making many trips to go see him.

I think he knew what would get the deal done with Cousins and did just enough to appear as though he was trying, without actually getting him.

Remember, much of the foolish sports media/"experts" and most of our fan base wanted Cousins.  I couldn't believe what I was seeing.  

Thankfully Macc saw through the BS and just humored the fans and media.  That's a sign of a great manager/leader.

Might even come in handy when determining what to do with Bowles.

It's a fact that Cousins was Plan A....Not even really debatable...

He offered more money than the Vikings, yet he still chose them.

This isn't even a position he has argued.  Drafting a QB was plan B

[Untouchable]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I understand those that don't like him, I'm still on the fence but he has made a lot of good moves, did get us our franchise QB and I believe his moves would have looked a lot better w/ a competent HC(who he did not hire).

Pretty much

I’m not saying Macc is a great GM or that I’d be sad to see him go, but if he is retained, at least the moves he’s made over the last 18 months or so should give you some hope that he’s improving and setting up the team for longterm success.

Sam Darnold, Jamal Adams, Chris Herndon, Henry Anderson for a late 7th round pick, keeping the team incredibly cap flexible...

Macc also knows the investment he has in Darnold. So I would fully expect him to try his damndest to build up the offensive side of the ball for the foreseeable future.

It’s not my ideal dream vision for the team, but Macc bringing in a coach like McCarthy, adding a weapon like Bell, solidifying the OL and still having $70+ million and a Top 5 pick to work with isn’t exactly a doomsday scenario to me.

[Mike135]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

It's a fact that Cousins was Plan A....Not even really debatable...

He offered more money than the Vikings, yet he still chose them.

This isn't even a position he has argued.  Drafting a QB was plan B

I disagree.

Macc doesn't seem to care what fans and media believe.  A great quality imo.

[FidelioJet]

5 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

I do.  I'm surprised you believe Macc didn't want Sam the whole time since he was visting Darnold almost every other week.

He looked at all these QB's - that's his job.  Look, no one is saying he's lazy, in fact by all accounts he works hard and is diligent...but I think it's pretty clear by now that he's not the right guy.

He's been the GM for 4 years and the Jets have bottom 5 talent.  

[bealeb319]

The problem with giving him one more year is exactly the problem with this organization.

What coach wants to come to a team that knows the GM is going to be fired next year?

Then we have to hire a new GM and allow him to hire his coach, or force a coach down the GM’s throat. Rinse and repeat. Do it right for once.

They both need to go, hire Mackenzie and let him pick his coach.



Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

I think there will be more coaches who believe in Mac than our forum believes. The guy has done a better job than we give him credit for, some say he overpays veterans but the cap space doesn't lie and year in and out we have had solid room with him because those big contracts have ways for us to get out with limited penalty. People will say his drafts were bad but he positioned us to get a franchise qb, drafted one of the best safteys in the league and gotten some fairly solid depth pieces later in the draft. Hackenburg the biggest knock against him but truth be told Hackenburg had a lot of upside with a fair bit of risk and did not pay off in hindsight. Mac has made good trades that usually involve sending a late round draft pick to another team for a pretty decent veteran (fitz,marshal,h.anderson) he sent Richardson who was a headache for us to Seattle and got us a third and a player who ended up being more productive for us than Richardson was for them. Mac is far from perfect but if you take an honest non biased emotional look at this guys body of work it really has not been bad.

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

[Mike135]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

He looked at all these QB's - that's his job.  Look, no one is saying he's lazy, if fact by all accounts he works hard and diligent...but I think it's pretty clear by now that he's the right guy.

He's been the GM for 4 years and the Jets have bottom 5 talent.  

Rebuilding with the Fitz fiaso that slowed everything down.

That whole Fitz thing could be a knock on Macc, but that also could have been Woody caving to foolish fan/media pressure.  Plus no good QBs being available.

[sec101row23]

4 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

I do.  I'm surprised you believe Macc didn't want Sam the whole time since he was visting Darnold almost every other week.

This is a laughable notion and one that’s not worth debating.  

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Macc also knows the investment he has in Darnold. So I would fully expect him to try his damndest to build up the offensive side of the ball for the foreseeable future.

It’s not my ideal dream vision for the team, but Macc bringing in a coach like McCarthy, adding a weapon like Bell, solidifying the OL and still having $70+ million and a Top 5 pick to work with isn’t exactly a doomsday scenario to me. 

He had 4 years to do a lot of this stuff and accomplished nothing.  He barely even tried to draft Offensive Linemen.  Why would he suddenly figure it out this offseason?  His sucking at drafting led us to this point.  We're in the 3rd/4th rebuild caused by and attempting to be executed by the same regime. 

Let someone else clean up his mess and get this organization going in the right direction. 

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

I disagree.

Macc doesn't seem to care what fans and media believe.  A great quality imo.

don't mean to be argumentative but what do you disagree with?

It is a fact he offered more money that the Vikings - and it's also a fact that that was before the draft.  Cousins was Plan A, Draft a QB was plan B.

This is indisputable.

[Mike135]

3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

He looked at all these QB's - that's his job.  Look, no one is saying he's lazy, if fact by all accounts he works hard and diligent...but I think it's pretty clear by now that he's the right guy.

He's been the GM for 4 years and the Jets have bottom 5 talent.  

And he didn't just look at Sam.  He was obsessed with him.

Google it.  There's a whole story out there explaining Macc looking into Sam in 2017.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, bealeb319 said:

some say he overpays veterans but the cap space doesn't lie and year in and out we have had solid room with him because those big contracts have ways for us to get out with limited penalty. 
 

Macc has done a great job of signing crappy players and including contract "outs" in their deals.  Wow.  I never thought of it that way!

[Warfish]

3 hours ago, Jetfan13 said:

6. NEW YORK JETS: $18.352 MILLION (2019: $107,034,376)

 

Sam Darnold (Photo: Geoff Burke, USA TODAY Sports)

Total Cap: $176.1 million

Active Cap: $125.3 million

Dead Cap: $25.3 million

Adjustments: $17.3 million

 

 

 Unspent cap space doesn’t win games. Players do.

Macc has not done enough picking players, IMO.

But with that said, I am resigned to the fact he is likely going to get 2-3 more years, minimum.

[Mike135]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

This is a laughable notion and one that’s not worth debating.  

Can't dispute facts.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Mike135 said:

Can't dispute facts.

You're not presenting "facts", only opinions.

[sec101row23]

Just now, Mike135 said:

Can't dispute facts.

So then why did Maccagnan wait until after Cousins signed with Minnesota to trade up in the draft?  You are embarrassing yourself here.  It’s kinda sad.  

[Mike135]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

don't mean to be argumentative but what do you disagree with?

It is a fact he offered more money that the Vikings - and it's also a fact that that was before the draft.  Cousins was Plan A, Draft a QB was plan B.

This is indisputable.

It is not indisputable.  I am in fact disputing it.

Macc likely knew what ot would take to get Cousins.  So he offered enough to keep the fans from crying, but not enough to actually get Cousins.

[Stark]

4 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Pretty much

I’m not saying Macc is a great GM or that I’d be sad to see him go, but if he is retained, at least the moves he’s made over the last 18 months or so should give you some hope that he’s improving and setting up the team for longterm success.

Sam Darnold, Jamal Adams, Chris Herndon, Henry Anderson for a late 7th round pick, keeping the team incredibly cap flexible...

Macc also knows the investment he has in Darnold. So I would fully expect him to try his damndest to build up the offensive side of the ball for the foreseeable future.

It’s not my ideal dream vision for the team, but Macc bringing in a coach like McCarthy, adding a weapon like Bell, solidifying the OL and still having $70+ million and a Top 5 pick to work with isn’t exactly a doomsday scenario to me.

Sometimes I swear you are reading my mind. I was going to type a message very similar to this and add in that.... for as "sh*tty" as a roster as this team is supposed to be by a lot of JN posters we somehow manage to not get blown out every game.

IMO a large part of this teams problem is Bowles. Same issues on field for 4 years, 4 OC's and similar results. Defensive guru that can't coach defense. At some point you have to look at the common theme, for me Bowles seems to be loved by his players but not respected and does not get any development out of most of the players on the team.

 

[Mike135]

Just now, sec101row23 said:

So then why did Maccagnan wait until after Cousins signed with Minnesota to trade up in the draft?  You are embarrassing yourself here.  It’s kinda sad.  

We're done.  You're starting to "debate" like a Breitbart poster.

[sec101row23]

Just now, Mike135 said:

We're done.  You're starting to "debate" like a Breitbart poster.

Lol..well you wanted facts and all, so.... 

 

[dbatesman]

25 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Not nearly as depressing as the premise the Johnson brothers either don’t care  enough or know enough to do anything about it. 

Maybe Bit is right and the Johnsons are Eboneezer Scrooge’s in training and really don’t want to spend money on this team? Scared money always loses so maybe that’s it?

The small bit of goodness in my heart really doesn’t want to think they could be actually dumb enough to not realize it. It’s modestly less disturbing if  it’s the old,” you better bring my change back.” Thing. 

I don’t know. 

 

I seem to remember reading that one of the first things Maccagnan did was get Woody to dump a bunch more money into the scouting department. I’ll try to find the article. In any event, lot of good it’s done!

[Jetsfan80]

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/75224/agent-jets-were-close-runner-up-in-kirk-cousins-sweepstakes

Quote

When the legal tampering period began last Monday, each team was asked to present its best offer. McCartney wanted to simplify the process; he didn't want to turn it into a Sotheby's auction. The Jets offered a fully guaranteed contract, but it apparently wasn't their "best" offer because they later tried to sweeten it. They wanted him badly, and they were willing to engage in a bidding war.

 

[sec101row23]

2 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

It is not indisputable.  I am in fact disputing it.

Macc likely knew what ot would take to get Cousins.  So he offered enough to keep the fans from crying, but not enough to actually get Cousins.

Lol..he offered MORE than the Vikings.  Stop digging man, you’re in way too deep.  

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

It is not indisputable.  I am in fact disputing it.

Macc likely knew what ot would take to get Cousins.  So he offered enough to keep the fans from crying, but not enough to actually get Cousins.

He made TWO offers to Cousins (see my previous post). 

But nah, he didn't really want him.  He was just playing the media and fans. 

[carlito1171]

22 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

I actually don't think this is true.

He spent all of last year obsessed with Darnold.  Making many trips to go see him.

I think he knew what would get the deal done with Cousins and did just enough to appear as though he was trying, without actually getting him.

Remember, much of the foolish sports media/"experts" and most of our fan base wanted Cousins.  I couldn't believe what I was seeing.  

Thankfully Macc saw through the BS and just humored the fans and media.  That's a sign of a great manager/leader.

Might even come in handy when determining what to do with Bowles.

Except he made the largest offer to Cousins. Larger then the team he actually signed with, the Vikings. 

[Mike135]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

He made TWO offers to Cousins. 

But nah, he didn't really want him.  He was just playing the media and fans. 

Now you're gettin' it.

[Untouchable]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He had 4 years to do a lot of this stuff and accomplished nothing.  He barely even tried to draft Offensive Linemen.  Why would he suddenly figure it out this offseason?  His sucking at drafting led us to this point.  We're in the 3rd/4th rebuild caused by and attempting to be executed by the same regime. 

Let someone else clean up his mess and get this organization going in the right direction. 

Hey, I’m all for cleaning house.

If I was in the drivers seat, we’d be throwing the bank at Shanahan to coach for the next 4-5 years, lure his protege LaFleur over here as the OC/Asst HC/HC in waiting and tab a young front office phenom like Eliot Wolf to shop for the groceries.

But let’s be honest here, everything we have to go by so far suggests that the Jets are keeping Maccagnan and going after a veteran coach like McCarthy or Harbaugh if DeCosta decides he wants his own figurehead in Baltimore.

[FidelioJet]

5 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

 

 

I think there will be more coaches who believe in Mac than our forum believes. The guy has done a better job than we give him credit for, some say he overpays veterans but the cap space doesn't lie and year in and out we have had solid room with him because those big contracts have ways for us to get out with limited penalty. People will say his drafts were bad but he positioned us to get a franchise qb, drafted one of the best safteys in the league and gotten some fairly solid depth pieces later in the draft. Hackenburg the biggest knock against him but truth be told Hackenburg had a lot of upside with a fair bit of risk and did not pay off in hindsight. Mac has made good trades that usually involve sending a late round draft pick to another team for a pretty decent veteran (fitz,marshal,h.anderson) he sent Richardson who was a headache for us to Seattle and got us a third and a player who ended up being more productive for us than Richardson was for them. Mac is far from perfect but if you take an honest non biased emotional look at this guys body of work it really has not been bad.

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

The points I was making was less about Mac sucking than it was about the dysfunction of the organization.  The coach could LOVE Mac but also be highly aware that Mac is likely to get fired in a year.

which means a new GM - which means that new GM is going to want to bring in his own coach....which means a 3rd coach and system for Darnold in 3 years....

Or what would be worse - is to force a HC on a GM and start the dysfunction all over again.

Unless you're certain you're keeping Mac a minimum of another 3 years - you have to fire him now.

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

What, exactly, would Macc's plan have been had Cousins actually signed with the Jets, when he didn't intend to actually sign him?

Giving Cousins a fake offer that exceeds the rest of the market would actually be DUMBER then never actually offering him anything at all.  Yet Mike is trying to argue Macc is some sort of savant that's smarter than the rest of the league.

Can't make this stuff up. 

[PCP63]

Easy to have all that cap with half the roster expiring. How people still defend him is beyond me. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Mike135 said:

Now you're gettin' it.

Yeah that's clearly it.  You totally didn't just stumble in here and make a fool of yourself.  You're totally the smartest in the room right now, just like Macc. 

[sec101row23]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

What, exactly, would Macc's plan have been had Cousins actually signed with the Jets, when he didn't intend to actually sign him?

Giving Cousins a fake offer that exceeds the rest of the market would actually be DUMBER then never actually offering him anything at all.  Yet Mike is trying to argue Macc is some sort of savant that's smarter than the rest of the league.

Can't make this stuff up. 

It was asinine thought.  Nothing more.