2014 The Draft that set up back 3 years!

[chirorob]

5 hours ago, Aussie Jet said:

Well, if it wasn't for Idzik, Maccagnan may not have had the ammunition to trade up for the selection used on Darnold.

Idzik traded Revis to the Buccaneers for their 2013 first round selection, and a conditional fourth round pick in 2014. Idzik used the Buccaneers' pick on Sheldon Richardson, whom Maccagnan later traded to the Seahawks for Kearse and the Seahawks' 2018 second round pick. Maccagnan later sent the Seahawks' selection, together with the Jets' first round and second round picks to the Colts, in exchange for the Colts' third overall selection in the 2018 draft.

But Idzik was a horrible GM.

Idzik was bad, but that was a very good trade, getting all of that for Revis.  

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

John idzik destroyed us.  His sabotage of Rex and that disastrous 2014 draft led us to Todd Bowles and mostly 4 years of hell.  The good news is in the end it may actually help us sort of like post fake spike.  After the game spike we won we would win 4 games the rest of 1994, all of 95 and 96 and it would eventually lead to Parcells turning the franchise around (though he was terrible as a GM outside of a couple great FA signings).  The idzik era led us to this complete rebuild and getting Sam so that pain may be worth it in the long run.

LOL, One of Idziks biggest failings and biggest anchors was Rex.  As in not firing him.  And the Jets, being the Jets forcing a coach on a new gm was equally stupid.

Idziks draft was epically bad but Macs drafting is not that far behind and it is funny how the media puts out a piece once again roasting idzik for his terrible draft and ignores how bad mac has been.

[genot]

https://www.newsday.com/sports/football/jets/jets-gm-john-idzik-defends-lack-of-free-agent-signings-1.7457490

[genot]

4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

LOL, One of Idziks biggest failings and biggest anchors was Rex.  As in not firing him.  And the Jets, being the Jets forcing a coach on a new gm was equally stupid.

Idziks draft was epically bad but Macs drafting is not that far behind and it is funny how the media puts out a piece once again roasting idzik for his terrible draft and ignores how bad mac has been.

Thank god Mangold and Brick we're there. Can't imagine who he would have signed to replace them

[UnitedWhofans]

This draft  is why people still like Maccagnan BTW. Because compared to this, he's a god.

The odds alone are astronomical. 2 players out of 12 still in the NFL. 1 on the Jets.

[T0mShane]

18 minutes ago, slats said:

If I was going to war for the Jets, I really don't think I'd choose to die on Idzik Hill. 

I'm just providing context. Idzik was bad, but he was more a symptom of a larger disease infecting the Jets at the time and he was put in an impossible spot. He never should have been offered the job in the first place, and he was bad at it, but to simply shout "Idzik!" as a catchall to why the Jets have been bad is highly revisionist, if predictable. Woody's (and, seemingly, Chris's) personnel management is the root cause of these problems, and no beat writer has the guts to call them out on it. Even now, what happens if they go 6-10 and want to fire Maccagnan? Can they do that without firing Gase? And how do they hire a new GM and tell him he's stuck with Gase? It's a mess, and a somewhat similar repeat of the mess they created around the Idzik hire, except Idzik had it worse because he inherited a cap mess, a roster full of thug trash (and a ruined Sanchez), and he inherited Rex, who had his slimy claws--not only dug into the owner--but also into every beat reporter who wanted a little bit of access, and they faithfully carried water for him; Manish being the most flagrant and obvious. 

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

John Idzik graduated from Dartmouth.

Globalist elite.

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I'm just providing context. Idzik was bad, but he was more a symptom of a larger disease infecting the Jets at the time and he was put in an impossible spot. He never should have been offered the job in the first place, and he was bad at it, but to simply shout "Idzik!" as a catchall to why the Jets have been bad is highly revisionist, if predictable. Woody's (and, seemingly, Chris's) personnel management is the root cause of these problems, and no beat writer has the guts to call them out on it. Even now, what happens if they go 6-10 and want to fire Maccagnan? Can they do that without firing Gase? And how do they hire a new GM and tell him he's stuck with Gase? It's a mess, and a somewhat similar repeat of the mess they created around the Idzik hire, except Idzik had it worse because he inherited a cap mess, a roster full of thug trash (and a ruined Sanchez), and he inherited Rex, who had his slimy claws--not only dug into the owner--but also into every beat reporter who wanted a little bit of access, and they faithfully carried water for him; Manish being the most flagrant and obvious. 

Do we even know how long Gase is under contract for?  I don't remember reading that anywhere...

[JiFtheOracle]

Watching Shane rolling around in every thread doing everything he can to defend his boy Izdick is quite funny.  

 

[UnitedWhofans]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I'm just providing context. Idzik was bad, but he was more a symptom of a larger disease infecting the Jets at the time and he was put in an impossible spot. He never should have been offered the job in the first place, and he was bad at it, but to simply shout "Idzik!" as a catchall to why the Jets have been bad is highly revisionist,

Their drafting in general has been crap for a decade. Maccagnan has been the better of late era Tanny and Idzik. but as you would say that isnt saying much

[T0mShane]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

This is why people still like Maccagnan BTW. Because compared to this, he's a god

People like Maccagnan because the media hasn't turned on him as yet and it was easier to blame the stoic, black coach who wouldn't stand up for himself or play the media game. Bowles was bad, but Maccagnan is equally terrible. If Bowles wanted to do so, he could have taken Maccagnan down with him, but he didn't because he knew he'd have an array of DC gigs waiting for him when he got bounced from this dumpster fire. Watch to see what happens to Macc when he finally gets fired. Even when he was hired here, people around the Texans were surprised he was even a candidate for a GM gig, with one quote saying (IIRC) "the job will be too big for him." 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, T0mShane said:

People like Maccagnan because the media hasn't turned on him as yet and it was easier to blame the stoic, black coach who wouldn't stand up for himself or play the media game. Bowles was bad, but Maccagnan is equally terrible. If Bowles wanted to do so, he could have taken Maccagnan down with him, but he didn't because he knew he'd have an array of DC gigs waiting for him when he got bounced from this dumpster fire. Watch to see what happens to Macc when he finally gets fired. Even when he was hired here, people around the Texans were surprised he was even a candidate for a GM gig, with one quote saying (IIRC) "the job will be too big for him." 

Maybe but his legacy is now tied to one pick. Sam Darnold, whether it was luck or not. That's another difference between him and Idzik

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Do we even know how long Gase is under contract for?  I don't remember reading that anywhere...

We don't know any of the terms, no. But we've received plenty of wonderful opinion pieces on uniforms, Jamal Adams' sassiness, and a passel of mock drafts. For only $30 per year, you too can subscribe to The Athletic to learn that the Jets should draft BAP because.

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

People like Maccagnan because the media hasn't turned on him as yet and it was easier to blame the stoic, black coach who wouldn't stand up for himself or play the media game. Bowles was bad, but Maccagnan is equally terrible. If Bowles wanted to do so, he could have taken Maccagnan down with him, but he didn't because he knew he'd have an array of DC gigs waiting for him when he got bounced from this dumpster fire. Watch to see what happens to Macc when he finally gets fired. Even when he was hired here, people around the Texans were surprised he was even a candidate for a GM gig, with one quote saying (IIRC) "the job will be too big for him." 

People like Maccagnan because he signs bigger name free agents that they recognize, he's had high draft picks in which he's gotten guys who's names they recognize, and they can blame his failures on a coach they didn't like.

[GREENBEAN]

10 hours ago, genot said:

Do you remember Patterson. Signed as a free agent, then disappeared during training camp. Nobody could explain what happened to him. It was like he was abducted by aliens.

That was crazy. And he was our big FA CB that offseason. The crap we've been through. 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Maybe but his legacy is now tied to one pick. Sam Darnold, whether it was luck or not. That's another difference between him and Idzik

The guy who drafted Peyton Manning was fired. The guy who drafted Andrew Luck was fired. The guy who traded for Drew Brees was fired, etc etc. If the Jets go 6-10 this year and Quinnen Williams (or Allen) isn't putting up double digit sacks, there's going to have to be some decisions to make regarding the guy buying the groceries. Bowles may have kept his mouth shut about Maccagnan, but we can be sure that Gase and Gregg Williams aren't going to take the fall if/when this roster fails. 

[section314]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

People like Maccagnan because the media hasn't turned on him as yet and it was easier to blame the stoic, black coach who wouldn't stand up for himself or play the media game. Bowles was bad, but Maccagnan is equally terrible. If Bowles wanted to do so, he could have taken Maccagnan down with him, but he didn't because he knew he'd have an array of DC gigs waiting for him when he got bounced from this dumpster fire. Watch to see what happens to Macc when he finally gets fired. Even when he was hired here, people around the Texans were surprised he was even a candidate for a GM gig, with one quote saying (IIRC) "the job will be too big for him." 

I would argue that Macc is way worse at his job than Bowles ever was. By a lot.

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, T0mShane said:

The guy who drafted Peyton Manning was fired. The guy who drafted Andrew Luck was fired. The guy who traded for Drew Brees was fired, etc etc. If the Jets go 6-10 this year and Quinnen Williams (or Allen) isn't putting up double digit sacks, there's going to have to be some decisions to make regarding the guy buying the groceries. Bowles may have kept his mouth shut about Maccagnan, but we can be sure that Gase and Gregg Williams aren't going to take the fall if/when this roster fails. 

Yay! Another GM forced to keep a coaching staff against his will!

[GREENBEAN]

31 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Idzik was bad, but that was a very good trade, getting all of that for Revis.  

He also did a greta job of cleaning house, recouping the salary cap money and getting all of those comp picks. The prep work was well done. The actual utilization of those resources was a train wreck. It's actually difficult to be that bad at it. 

The right move would have been to sign Revis the min they cut him in Tampa Bay.  That would have been a master stroke. Trade him for a 1st and a 4th for them to rehab his knee for us. Then take him back for zero football capital. Just $.  We had a ton of cash at the time too. 

[genot]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

People like Maccagnan because the media hasn't turned on him as yet and it was easier to blame the stoic, black coach who wouldn't stand up for himself or play the media game. Bowles was bad, but Maccagnan is equally terrible. If Bowles wanted to do so, he could have taken Maccagnan down with him, but he didn't because he knew he'd have an array of DC gigs waiting for him when he got bounced from this dumpster fire. Watch to see what happens to Macc when he finally gets fired. Even when he was hired here, people around the Texans were surprised he was even a candidate for a GM gig, with one quote saying (IIRC) "the job will be too big for him." 

Idzik didn't want Rex. I doubt Mac wanted Bowles. It was unfair to both GM's, not to allow them their choice of HC. The difference was, Idzik did everything he could to sabotage Ryan. Mac, grudgingly worked with Bowles. For better or worse. So to speak

[slats]

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I'm just providing context. Idzik was bad, but he was more a symptom of a larger disease infecting the Jets at the time and he was put in an impossible spot. He never should have been offered the job in the first place, and he was bad at it, but to simply shout "Idzik!" as a catchall to why the Jets have been bad is highly revisionist, if predictable. Woody's (and, seemingly, Chris's) personnel management is the root cause of these problems, and no beat writer has the guts to call them out on it. Even now, what happens if they go 6-10 and want to fire Maccagnan? Can they do that without firing Gase? And how do they hire a new GM and tell him he's stuck with Gase? It's a mess, and a somewhat similar repeat of the mess they created around the Idzik hire, except Idzik had it worse because he inherited a cap mess, a roster full of thug trash (and a ruined Sanchez), and he inherited Rex, who had his slimy claws--not only dug into the owner--but also into every beat reporter who wanted a little bit of access, and they faithfully carried water for him; Manish being the most flagrant and obvious. 

I don't have the Rex hatred you have, but otherwise I'm in agreement here. Idzik stands out as terrible even from the perspective of this crappy franchise, but the Jets brought him upon themselves by insisting on holding onto Rex. And yes, Maccagnan sucks nearly as bad but he got Darnold and can speak in public. I definitely wanted him fired along with Bowles, and have no idea what the Jets see in him outside of being unwilling to eat two years of his contract while also eating Bowles'. 

Going forward, I don't know. Gase checks most of the boxes I wanted in a new head coach. I guess the hope now is that Mac leaned heavily on Bowles and his staff, who sucked, and will now lean on Gase, Williams, & co. and they'll be better. That's all I have. 

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, genot said:

Idzik didn't want Rex. I doubt Mac wanted Bowles. It was unfair to both GM's, not to allow them their choice of HC. The difference was, Idzik did everything he could to sabotage Ryan. Mac, grudgingly worked with Bowles. For better or worse. So to speak

Is there any proof of "Mac, grudgingly worked with Bowles."  Or, did you just entirely make it up?  Because, it sounds like something you just made up.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

People like Maccagnan because he signs bigger name free agents that they recognize, he's had high draft picks in which he's gotten guys who's names they recognize, and they can blame his failures on a coach they didn't like.

This is true, but a lot of it is also the kid gloves he gets from guys like Francesa and Mehta. He doesn't get blamed for the draft failures because every first rounder he makes is covered as "The Best Player In The Draft...Who Dropped!" and every free agent signing is a coup, even though he's paying 50% over retail with money he's not spending on re-signing his own miserable picks. It's really odd how little heat Maccagnan gets from the beat guys around here, and I think much of it is because he's a fat, friendly, coffee-drinking pud that a lot of these fat, dimwitted suburban beat writers empathize with.

[GREENBEAN]

1 minute ago, section314 said:

I would argue that Macc is way worse at his job than Bowles ever was. By a lot.

You'd be wrong. Why have that argument?  Bowles has literally done nothing outside of hire two retired OC's off of the couch and out of the woods, fire Pepper Johnson for no reason and keep KC Rodgers employed even though he is completely under qualified to be a DC in the NFL. 

Macc's Henry Anderson trade alone would outweigh how bad Bowles was for the Jets. 

[UnitedWhofans]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The guy who drafted Peyton Manning was fired. The guy who drafted Andrew Luck was fired. The guy who traded for Drew Brees was fired, etc etc. If the Jets go 6-10 this year and Quinnen Williams (or Allen) isn't putting up double digit sacks, there's going to have to be some decisions to make regarding the guy buying the groceries. Bowles may have kept his mouth shut about Maccagnan, but we can be sure that Gase and Gregg Williams aren't going to take the fall if/when this roster fails. 

That's true. But if Dave Gettleman could get another job after being applauded out of Carolina...... (I dont know if he was there for their appearance or not

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, section314 said:

I would argue that Macc is way worse at his job than Bowles ever was. By a lot.

Bowles has a lot of terminal flaws for a head coach. Way too soft, way too insecure, way too loyal to players and assistants, and way too apolitical. He's an assistant all the way and should remain so the rest of his days.

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, genot said:

Idzik didn't want Rex. I doubt Mac wanted Bowles. It was unfair to both GM's, not to allow them their choice of HC. The difference was, Idzik did everything he could to sabotage Ryan. Mac, grudgingly worked with Bowles. For better or worse. So to speak

When you look at what Rex tried to do to snake the Atlanta job and what he did in the Buffalo job, and when you realize that he can't even get an interview for a DC gig these days, you realize that the problem with the Idzik-Rex relationship wasn't Idzik.

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

That's true. But if Dave Gettleman could get another job after being applauded out of Carolina...... (I dont know if he was there for their appearance or not

Gettleman is an old salt NFL lifer who was brought in to right the ship with the Giants and provide some discipline. Maccagnan was the Milton Waddams of the Texans personnel department whom Charlie Casserly plucked out of the basement in a desperate panic after every other GM prospect told the Jets to go pound sand.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, T0mShane said:

Gettleman is an old salt NFL lifer who was brought in to right the ship with the Giants and provide some discipline. Maccagnan was the Milton Waddams of the Texans personnel department whom Charlie Casserly plucked out of the basement in a desperate panic after every other GM prospect told the Jets to go pound sand.

Well at this moment one is more popular with their fanbase than the other. 

[32EBoozer]

Do you get paid by the post?? If so.... how do I get in on that action??

I can blow as much smoke up someone's a$$ as the next guy

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Bowles has a lot of terminal flaws for a head coach. Way too soft, way too insecure, way too loyal to players and assistants, and way too apolitical. He's an assistant all the way and should remain so the rest of his days.

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

When you look at what Rex tried to do to snake the Atlanta job and what he did in the Buffalo job, and when you realize that he can't even get an interview for a DC gig these days, you realize that the problem with the Idzik-Rex relationship wasn't Idzik.

 

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Gettleman is an old salt NFL lifer who was brought in to right the ship with the Giants and provide some discipline. Maccagnan was the Milton Waddams of the Texans personnel department whom Charlie Casserly plucked out of the basement in a desperate panic after every other GM prospect told the Jets to go pound sand.

 

[T0mShane]

9 minutes ago, slats said:

I don't have the Rex hatred you have, but otherwise I'm in agreement here. Idzik stands out as terrible even from the perspective of this crappy franchise, but the Jets brought him upon themselves by insisting on holding onto Rex. And yes, Maccagnan sucks nearly as bad but he got Darnold and can speak in public. I definitely wanted him fired along with Bowles, and have no idea what the Jets see in him outside of being unwilling to eat two years of his contract while also eating Bowles'. 

Going forward, I don't know. Gase checks most of the boxes I wanted in a new head coach. I guess the hope now is that Mac leaned heavily on Bowles and his staff, who sucked, and will now lean on Gase, Williams, & co. and they'll be better. That's all I have. 

You'd hope that Gase and Williams are having an influence, but it's hard to see so far with the free agent acquisitions because the major ones fit the Maccagnan profile--a few big names he was allowed to overpay for in Bell and Mosley. Maybe Barr was a guy that Williams requested, but that's really the only guy you can point to as someone specifically desired by the new staff. Maybe Siemian? It's still annoying that none of the beat guys ever chased down the story about Chris Johnson mentioning a new organizational distribution of power, because it could imply one of two things: either they recognized Macc sucks and are moving to a more analytics-based approach (Heimerdinger?), or Maccagnan officially sold Johnson on the idea that Bowles forced his hand on a lot of the crappy personnel decisions that were made and he needed more autonomy.

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Well at this moment one is more popular with their fanbase than the other. 

Giants fans have significantly higher standards.

[T0mShane]

Behold, we have achieved synthesis and can present to you the Voltron of Stupid:

 

[nyjunc]

53 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

LOL, One of Idziks biggest failings and biggest anchors was Rex.  As in not firing him.  And the Jets, being the Jets forcing a coach on a new gm was equally stupid.

Idziks draft was epically bad but Macs drafting is not that far behind and it is funny how the media puts out a piece once again roasting idzik for his terrible draft and ignores how bad mac has been.

While I agree a new GM shouldn't have a HC forced upon him that new GM also shouldn't try to sabotage the HC to fire him.

Macc has been up and down, struggled in the draft but has hit on trades and, oh yeah, got us Sam Darnold.  Macc also didn't hold 12 picks in a loaded draft where the majority were out of football in a few years.

Macc also had a HC hired for him except the one he had was quite possibly the worst in football.  If macc had Rex he would have made the playoffs in 2015 and the team would have competed while undergoing a complete rebuild the last 2 years.

 

[nyjunc]

16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

When you look at what Rex tried to do to snake the Atlanta job and what he did in the Buffalo job, and when you realize that he can't even get an interview for a DC gig these days, you realize that the problem with the Idzik-Rex relationship wasn't Idzik.

His teams overachieved in Buffalo, they had a million key injuries or they would have easily made the playoffs in 2015 instead of just making Todd Bowles look like a buffoon by keeping him out of the playoffs with half the healthy taken Todd had to work with.