2014 The Draft that set up back 3 years!

[chirorob]

29 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

He also did a greta job of cleaning house, recouping the salary cap money and getting all of those comp picks. The prep work was well done. The actual utilization of those resources was a train wreck. It's actually difficult to be that bad at it. 

The right move would have been to sign Revis the min they cut him in Tampa Bay.  That would have been a master stroke. Trade him for a 1st and a 4th for them to rehab his knee for us. Then take him back for zero football capital. Just $.  We had a ton of cash at the time too. 

His plan was sound.   Dump bad contracts, get a ton of draft capital.

His execution of the plan was poor, ie missing on almost all of his picks.

[chirorob]

44 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I'm just providing context. Idzik was bad, but he was more a symptom of a larger disease infecting the Jets at the time and he was put in an impossible spot. He never should have been offered the job in the first place, and he was bad at it, but to simply shout "Idzik!" as a catchall to why the Jets have been bad is highly revisionist, if predictable. Woody's (and, seemingly, Chris's) personnel management is the root cause of these problems, and no beat writer has the guts to call them out on it. Even now, what happens if they go 6-10 and want to fire Maccagnan? Can they do that without firing Gase? And how do they hire a new GM and tell him he's stuck with Gase? It's a mess, and a somewhat similar repeat of the mess they created around the Idzik hire, except Idzik had it worse because he inherited a cap mess, a roster full of thug trash (and a ruined Sanchez), and he inherited Rex, who had his slimy claws--not only dug into the owner--but also into every beat reporter who wanted a little bit of access, and they faithfully carried water for him; Manish being the most flagrant and obvious. 

Totally agree.   But that goes back to the fact that Woody had both the GM and Head Coach reporting to him.   It should be, Owner -> GM -> Head Coach.

However, for that dynamic to work, the GM realistically has to be allowed to hire his head coach.   Any business, if I make you responsible for a company, but you get get no input on your managers, it probably isn't going to work.

[#27TheDominator]

39 minutes ago, genot said:

Idzik didn't want Rex. I doubt Mac wanted Bowles. It was unfair to both GM's, not to allow them their choice of HC. The difference was, Idzik did everything he could to sabotage Ryan. Mac, grudgingly worked with Bowles. For better or worse. So to speak

Am I supposed to light a candle for these guys?  Maccagnan didn't "grudgingly work with Bowles."  He was at the guys 2nd interview and they were specifically hired on because of a perceived ability to work together. Rex was forced on Idzik, but that is the only reason that knucklehead got the job.  He tried to sabotage Rex (no corners) and it took more work than he thought and got him canned too.  

[Bruce Harper]

File under Spilt Milk.

[T0mShane]

16 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

His teams overachieved in Buffalo, they had a million key injuries or they would have easily made the playoffs in 2015 instead of just making Todd Bowles look like a buffoon by keeping him out of the playoffs with half the healthy taken Todd had to work with.

I get asked this all the time about Mangini, and my answer is always, “because Eric Mangini publicly outed the systemic corruption that allowed the New England Patriots to steal and cheat their way through over a decade of tainted victories and illegitimate titles.” The question for you is, if Rex was any good, why can’t he get back in the league? 

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I get asked this all the time about Mangini, and my answer is always, “because Eric Mangini publicly outed the systemic corruption that allowed the New England Patriots to steal and cheat their way through over a decade of tainted victories and illegitimate titles.” The question for you is, if Rex was any good, why can’t he get back in the league? 

How many coaches hey a third chance?  He was a guy many teams were interested after we fired him.  It's not like Todd Bowles who no one was interested in.  

Mangini had potential but like Rex got a job too soon after we fired him and now will never get another HC job, not because of ratting on NE but because in 5 seasons he had 1 playoff app, zero playoff wins and couldn't get to the playoffs in a year the Jets had an incredibly weak sched, Tom Brady out for the year and a Hof QB.

[genot]

45 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Is there any proof of "Mac, grudgingly worked with Bowles."  Or, did you just entirely make it up?  Because, it sounds like something you just made up.

No. I have no proof of that. It's just a guess based on personalities. Idzik was a control freak. I don't believe Mac is. Just an opinion.

[nyjunc]

21 minutes ago, chirorob said:

His plan was sound.   Dump bad contracts, get a ton of draft capital.

His execution of the plan was poor, ie missing on almost all of his picks.

That's what I always used to say, I loved his approach but he couldn't execute his plan.  

[slats]

25 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You'd hope that Gase and Williams are having an influence, but it's hard to see so far with the free agent acquisitions because the major ones fit the Maccagnan profile--a few big names he was allowed to overpay for in Bell and Mosley. Maybe Barr was a guy that Williams requested, but that's really the only guy you can point to as someone specifically desired by the new staff. Maybe Siemian? It's still annoying that none of the beat guys ever chased down the story about Chris Johnson mentioning a new organizational distribution of power, because it could imply one of two things: either they recognized Macc sucks and are moving to a more analytics-based approach (Heimerdinger?), or Maccagnan officially sold Johnson on the idea that Bowles forced his hand on a lot of the crappy personnel decisions that were made and he needed more autonomy.

I suspect that Bell and Crowder are guys that Gase is very happy to have, even if he didn't specifically lobby for them. The Mosley signing could be all Mac, as that's the biggest head-scratcher. Really need to see it play out more. As @TeddEY said, we don't know what Gase's contract terms are, and Mac is probably still on the extension they gave him and Bowles, meaning that he's a lame-duck next year and really has to demonstrate something in the form of wins, I'd think, to keep his job beyond this year. 

And then, yeah, you'd be forcing Gase on the next GM and the idiocy cycle would continue. 

[genot]

43 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

When you look at what Rex tried to do to snake the Atlanta job and what he did in the Buffalo job, and when you realize that he can't even get an interview for a DC gig these days, you realize that the problem with the Idzik-Rex relationship wasn't Idzik.

This isn't a defense of Ryan. Idzik on more than one occasion used his authority to play people, the coaching staff, did not want to play. I remember the o-line coach stating publicly that Ducasse playing was an order from 'upstairs'. The coaching staff did not feel Smith was ready to start in the NFL, but he did. That was Idzik's guy. Ryan begged to bring Revis back and Cromartie back, and who'd we get. Cromartie waited until the last second to sign with Arizona. Idzik didn't even return his calls. Fact. Cromartie wanted to come back, and he was willing to play at a discount. Fact.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, genot said:

Fact

 

[genot]

35 minutes ago, chirorob said:

His plan was sound.   Dump bad contracts, get a ton of draft capital.

His execution of the plan was poor, ie missing on almost all of his picks.

He let Austin Howard go f because he didn't want to spend any more than what he thought he was worth. Who'd we get. Brent Giacomini. Thank's john

[genot]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

 

That's the way it went down TomShane.....Fact

[Beerfish]

2 minutes ago, genot said:

He let Austin Howard go f because he didn't want to spend any more than what he thought he was worth. Who'd we get. Brent Giacomini. Thank's john

You mean 5 times pro bowler austin howard that was grossly over paid by the raiders and is now out of the league?

[genot]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

I remember that. All these corners we're available, and one after the other signed off with other teams. You remember too. I know you do.

[T0mShane]

16 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

How many coaches hey a third chance?  He was a guy many teams were interested after we fired him.  It's not like Todd Bowles who no one was interested in.  

Mangini had potential but like Rex got a job too soon after we fired him and now will never get another HC job, not because of ratting on NE but because in 5 seasons he had 1 playoff app, zero playoff wins and couldn't get to the playoffs in a year the Jets had an incredibly weak sched, Tom Brady out for the year and a Hof QB.

Bowles was on the street for five minutes before he got the Tampa DC gig. Rex, upon getting fired from the Jets, begged Arthur Blank to hire him over the objections of Pioli and Dimitroff, then when Blank's mother died and he went to deal with that, Pioli and Dimitroff told Rex to take a hike. Rex responded to that by flying to Florida to directly con the Pegulas into giving him the Bills job, circumventing the GM and team president. Fortunately for the Pegulas, the Bills beat writers were all established seventy year old cranks who saw right through Rex and they ran his flim-flam ass out of town within two years. Now Rex can't even get an interview, which is what happens when your resume includes getting three different GMs fired.  

[section314]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Bowles has a lot of terminal flaws for a head coach. Way too soft, way too insecure, way too loyal to players and assistants, and way too apolitical. He's an assistant all the way and should remain so the rest of his days.

All fair points. Who do you think is more highly thought of around the league, Bowles or Macc? I would certainly bet it's Bowles. Bowles was bad, for all the reasons you mentioned, and probably more. But, this team is seriously lacking in talent, save maybe a handful of positions, and that's definitely on Macc.

[genot]

Just now, Beerfish said:

You mean 5 times pro bowler austin howard that was grossly over paid by the raiders and is now out of the league?

Oh please. I never said he was a pro bowler. He was a young serviceable RT, who was replaced by a penalty machine. He replaced large contracts and replaced them with cheap junk. Good plan

[T0mShane]

Just now, section314 said:

All fair points. Who do you think is more highly thought of around the league, Bowles or Macc? I would certainly bet it's Bowles. Bowles was bad, for all the reasons you mentioned, and probably more. But, this team is seriously lacking in talent, save maybe a handful of positions, and that's definitely on Macc.

I'd imagine Bowles is more highly thought of simply because he's part of that coaching fraternity and seems like a genuinely good, hard-working guy. Maccagnan, I'd guess, has friends in the league that will give him a job as an area scout at some point? But he'll never, ever sniff another GM job in his life.

[genot]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I'd imagine Bowles is more highly thought of simply because he's part of that coaching fraternity and seems like a genuinely good, hard-working guy. Maccagnan, I'd guess, has friends in the league that will give him a job as an area scout at some point? But he'll never, ever sniff another GM job in his life.

What if we win 10 games this year. It's not out of the realm of possibility.

[Beerfish]

4 minutes ago, genot said:

Oh please. I never said he was a pro bowler. He was a young serviceable RT, who was replaced by a penalty machine. He replaced large contracts and replaced them with cheap junk. Good plan

You do not over pay a 'serviceable RT'.   The guy was a 2 million dollar player and the Raiders paid him 4.5, 6.5 and 6 million.

Once again the plan was sound, he drafted olineman unlike our present gm but he executed badly.

Idzik was a bad gm because he could not draft but at least he had what looked like a plan by the way he acted.

Our present GM also drafts awfully but he seems to have no team building plan at all.

 

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

Our present GM also drafts awfully but he seems to have no team building plan at all.

 

And yet our present GM seems to have more draft successes than the prior one. Thats the problem. 

[genot]

6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

You do not over pay a 'serviceable RT'.   The guy was a 2 million dollar player and the Raiders paid him 4.5, 6.5 and 6 million.

Once again the plan was sound, he drafted olineman unlike our present gm but he executed badly.

Idzik was a bad gm because he could not draft but at least he had what looked like a plan by the way he acted.

Our present GM also drafts awfully but he seems to have no team building plan at all.

 

You don't let a young tackle go, when your grooming a young QB, unless you have a plan to replace him with someone competent. That's just my opinion. Save money elsewhere.

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Bowles was on the street for five minutes before he got the Tampa DC gig. Rex, upon getting fired from the Jets, begged Arthur Blank to hire him over the objections of Pioli and Dimitroff, then when Blank's mother died and he went to deal with that, Pioli and Dimitroff told Rex to take a hike. Rex responded to that by flying to Florida to directly con the Pegulas into giving him the Bills job, circumventing the GM and team president. Fortunately for the Pegulas, the Bills beat writers were all established seventy year old cranks who saw right through Rex and they ran his flim-flam ass out of town within two years. Now Rex can't even get an interview, which is what happens when your resume includes getting three different GMs fired.  

You don't think Rex could get a DC job if he wanted one?  Who cares about a coordinator job.

 

The reality is Rex did a nice job in Buffalo when you consider the circumstances but don't let little stuff like that get in the way.

 

Again, rex has been fired twice regardless of the circumstances.  It's hard to get a third HC job.  How many HC jobs did Bowles interview for last year?

[GREENBEAN]

His plan was sound.   Dump bad contracts, get a ton of draft capital.
His execution of the plan was poor, ie missing on almost all of his picks.

Perfectly stated. How’d ya do that with so few words? lol



Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[NYJ1]

There is a lot of Rex hate on this site. I guess I don't really understand why? The fact is, when Rex had a talented Jets team, he coached them to rather lofty heights. Whether posters choose to be fair and acknowledge the good things he did here is irrelevant. It's a fact.

[T0mShane]

4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

You don't think Rex could get a DC job if he wanted one?

Nope.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

It's a fact.

Narrator: In fact, this was only an opinion, and it was bad

[Pac]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Bowles was on the street for five minutes before he got the Tampa DC gig. Rex, upon getting fired from the Jets, begged Arthur Blank to hire him over the objections of Pioli and Dimitroff, then when Blank's mother died and he went to deal with that, Pioli and Dimitroff told Rex to take a hike. Rex responded to that by flying to Florida to directly con the Pegulas into giving him the Bills job, circumventing the GM and team president. Fortunately for the Pegulas, the Bills beat writers were all established seventy year old cranks who saw right through Rex and they ran his flim-flam ass out of town within two years. Now Rex can't even get an interview, which is what happens when your resume includes getting three different GMs fired.  

Bills record with Rex:  15-16

Bills record since Rex left: 15-16

Rex Ryan will be a HC again...  Your hero Idzik will be stuffed in a broom closet for the rest of his time in the NFL.  His personality is so incredibly meh he makes an actuary look like Robin Williams.

You are demented.

[CTM]

10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

John Idzik graduated from Dartmouth.

Give it up porky. Idzik stunk. Diving deeper into your obsession with Rex bashing does nothing to change that.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, CTM said:

Give it up porky. Idzik stunk. Diving deeper into your obsession with Rex bashing does nothing to change that.

Dartmouth, bro

[T0mShane]

18 minutes ago, Pac said:

Bills record with Rex:  15-16

 Bills record since Rex left: 15-16

Will this be the first two lines of his CV or will he save this for the closing move? 

[NYJ1]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Narrator: In fact, this was only an opinion, and it was bad

So back to back AFC championships doesn't qualify as lofty heights? All due respect, you're delusional. Please tell when this team has achieved so much since 1969? 1982? 1998? Those teams were one and done. All the Jets front office had to do was continue to stock the team with talent and Rex would have taken them the rest of the way. So I guess you thought Todd Bowles was the savior of this team in 2015? I never had any doubt in my mind Bowles was a serious downgrade in the coaching department.

[sourceworx]

19 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Just for kicks, let's go back and look at the three players picked after the Jets picked in 2014 to see what Idzik whiffed on, SHALL WE?

Rd 1:

18. Calvin Pryor--Bust, obv

19. JuWuan James--Bust

20. Brandin Cooks--Good player with a miserable catch percentage currently on his third team

21. Ha Ha Clinton Dix--Green Bay gladly let him walk. You'll recall Rex saying of the choice between HaHa and Pryor that he "picked the guy who will knock your head off."

 

Rd 2. 

49. Jace Amaro--Bust, obv

50. Jeremiah Attaochu--Journeyman backup who may till be on the Jets(?)

51. Ego Ferguson--Didn't last two seasons in the league

52. Troy Niklas-- Has been in the league for four years and has 19 receptions

 

Rd 3. 

80. Dexter McDougle--Miss, obv

81. Gabe Jackson--Very solid OL. 

82. Will Sutton--Out of the league

83. Louis Nix--Out of the league

 

Rd. 4

104. Jalen Saunders--Miss, obv. Dominating in Canada, however

105. Bryan Stork--Out of the league

106. Bruce Ellington--A decent #4 receiver/punt returner who's bounced around

107. Justin Ellis--Rotational interior DL on the Raiders

Rd. 4

115. Shaq Evans--Miss, obv

116. Keith McGill--Special teams player

117. Ka'Deem Carey--Out of the league

118. Martavis Bryant--The guy Jets fans screamed about for two years but they don't anymore because he's suspended for life

 

Other luminaries taken directly after the Jets picks:

138. Lorenzo Taliafero

139. Prince Shembo

140. Cameron Fleming

155. Arthur Lynch

156. Lamin Barrow

157. Shaquille Richardson

196. Walt Powell

197. Demetri Goodson

198. Garrett Scott

211. Jay Prosch

212. Marquis Flowers

214. Garrett Gilbert

215. Dan McCullers

216. Andre Hal

234. Terrence Fede

235. Shelby Harris

236. Jeff Janis

 

He passed on Derek Carr for a safety, because he was content with Geno as his QB. Then he settled for Jace Amaro instead of moving up for a receiver, because he was content with Geno Smith throwing to David Nelson and Clyde Gates.

As bad as Mac is (and he is), Idzik was much, much worse.

[T0mShane]

18 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

 

He passed on Derek Carr for a safety, because he was content with Geno as his QB. Then he settled for Jace Amaro instead of moving up for a receiver, because he was content with Geno Smith throwing to David Nelson and Clyde Gates.

As bad as Mac is (and he is), Idzik was much, much worse.

<dabs napkin on corner of mouth>

Mike Maccagnan passed on MVP of the NFL Patrick Mahomes to draft a safety when he had Josh McCown as his QB and Christian Hackenberg as his backup.

 

<continues eating chicken salad with avocado>