Combine News, Notes & Updates

[RobR]

5 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I didn't see the drills, but so far I've seen you say this twice while the general consensus I've seen from draft types on Twitter is he was fine during the drills.

I guess everyone sees things differently.  

I read somewhere they had him running some LB and Coverage drills?  Is that true?  Not implying those are the drills you are talking about, but don't understand why they'd ask he do that.

I cleared my calendar so I could watch the entire combine and he was awful in drills. When I said they were laughing and giggling as he was doing some drills is the truth. The one new drill with the two circles which exposes stiffness he was falling on the ground. The drill that shows foot speed made him look like he had cement shows on, and yes the announcers were joking about how bad he looked in that one also. 

When it comes to him doing LB drills I have no idea because they never televise a player going through drills at a different position. Not sure why, but that's the case.

I'm sure you could google up some of his drills and decide for yourself.

[New York Mick]

27 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Not a terrible three cone or shuttle, though. Willekes looked undraftable today 

Number wise Willekes did better by a lot in the bench and 40 and pretty much the same in the rest. 
I haven’t watched the drills yet. 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Number wise Willekes did better by a lot in the bench and 40 and pretty much the same in the rest. 
I haven’t watched the drills yet. 

Like I was telling Rob, I think you’re drafting Willekes to play standing up and, by that standard, he would get destroyed. I think you play Epenesa in Mo Wilkerson’s spot and he’d be productive

[HawkeyeJet]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Like I was telling Rob, I think you’re drafting Willekes to play standing up and, by that standard, he would getdestroyed. I think you play Epenesa in Mo Wilkerson’s spot and he’d be productive

 

13 minutes ago, RobR said:

I cleared my calendar so I could watch the entire combine and he was awful in drills. When I said they were laughing and giggling as he was doing some drills is the truth. The one new drill with the two circles which exposes stiffness he was falling on the ground. The drill that shows foot speed made him look like he had cement shows on, and yes the announcers were joking about how bad he looked in that one also. 

When it comes to him doing LB drills I have no idea because they never televise a player going through drills at a different position. Not sure why, but that's the case.

I'm sure you could google up some of his drills and decide for yourself.

Interesting.  

Not that it matters, but I agree with T0M.  

[RobR]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Like I was telling Rob, I think you’re drafting Willekes to play standing up and, by that standard, he would get destroyed. I think you play Epenesa in Mo Wilkerson’s spot and he’d be productive

That doesn't change the fact that they had similar combines based on h/w and every measurable. One was considered a 4-6th rounder and the other was considered a 1st rounder and they put up almost identical numbers. They also both have excellent college production numbers.  

[New York Mick]

11 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Like I was telling Rob, I think you’re drafting Willekes to play standing up and, by that standard, he would get destroyed. I think you play Epenesa in Mo Wilkerson’s spot and he’d be productive

Either way I don’t want either one of them unless it’s later in the draft. 

[RobR]

2 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

 

Interesting.  

Not that it matters, but I agree with T0M.  

Not surprising that you agree with the guy who didn't watch the drills. The hate is strong with you.

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, RobR said:

That doesn't change the fact that they had similar combines based on h/w and every measurable. One was considered a 4-6th rounder and the other was considered a 1st rounder and they put up almost identical numbers. They also both have excellent college production numbers.  

Right, but unless you’re playing Willekes at DE, it’s not apples to apples. I think Epenesa ultimately plays a 5-tech so he can get away with his numbers. I don’t know if Willekes could handle that role. Willekes looks like a guy who ends up playing ILB when it’s all said and done. Epenesa has at least shown the ability to go head up on a tackle and win consistently.

[T0mShane]

9 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Either way I don’t want either one of them unless it’s later in the draft. 

That’s fair, but I’d be tempted to pull the trigger on Epenesa in round two.

[HawkeyeJet]

Just now, RobR said:

Not surprising that you agree with the guy who didn't watch the drills. The hate is strong with you.

The hate?  What do I hate?  I've watched his drills.  It literally took 2 minutes.  Missed the laughter though. 

He tested poorly. Part of his 40 time is due to an awful mechanical start. I don't think his drills are anything glaring poor other than the stumble in the hoop drill.  

I agree with Tom because I've watched every snap he's ever played in college.  I've watched him practice on several occasions.  So I will lean on my evaluation based on that.  

You can think whatever you want.  That's completely fine.  If you thought he was awful in drills, you thought he was awful in drills.  Others didn't.  I personally think the combine results are incredibly over valued.  Just my 2 cents.  And if you think I'm saying that to defend an Iowa guy who did poorly, not so.

 

[RobR]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Right, but unless you’re playing Willekes at DE, it’s not apples to apples. I think Epenesa ultimately plays a 5-tech so he can get away with his numbers. I don’t know if Willekes could handle that role. Willekes looks like a guy who ends up playing ILB when it’s all said and done. Epenesa has at least shown the ability to go head up on a tackle and win consistently.

I'm not here to tout Willekes because that is certainly not the case, just pointing they look almost identical on paper. I also don't think Epenesa can play 5 tech.......way too light. IMO a 5 tech needs to be a minimum of 290-300lbs. He needs to play in a 4-3, either inside or outside.

[RobR]

2 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

The hate?  What do I hate?  I've watched his drills.  It literally took 2 minutes.  Missed the laughter though. 

I just watched the highlight video and it's not the same as if you watched them live. They do a quick cut on the drills and you can never hear the commentary beyond the 5 seconds it takes to run the drill.

It will be telling to see where he finally does get drafted. For a guy that's touted as a passrusher I don't see it because every good passrusher in the NFL puts up stellar numbers.

[GREENBEAN]

 

58 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Because Willekes has to play OLB and Epenesa is going to be a down lineman. 

Wait... What the hell are you saying about my boy Willekes???  I gotta catch up here today. I've been out of commission all day.  You watch yer bastard tongue till I get back. 

[RobR]

14 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

The hate?  What do I hate?  I've watched his drills.  It literally took 2 minutes.  Missed the laughter though. 

He tested poorly. Part of his 40 time is due to an awful mechanical start. I don't think his drills are anything glaring poor other than the stumble in the hoop drill.  

I agree with Tom because I've watched every snap he's ever played in college.  I've watched him practice on several occasions.  So I will lean on my evaluation based on that.  

You can think whatever you want.  That's completely fine.  If you thought he was awful in drills, you thought he was awful in drills.  Others didn't.  I personally think the combine results are incredibly over valued.  Just my 2 cents.  And if you think I'm saying that to defend an Iowa guy who did poorly, not so.

 

Here is an article about his combine which was poor. It is also very glowing about his prospects in the future but doesn't absolve him of his poor performance and they don't even get into the drills.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2878147-nfl-scouting-combine-notebook-did-aj-epenesa-crater-his-draft-stock#slide1

And another:

https://withthefirstpick.com/2020/02/29/2020-nfl-draft-iowa-edge-j-epenesa-posts-less-ideal-numbers/

[HawkeyeJet]

1 minute ago, RobR said:

I just watched the highlight video and it's not the same as if you watched them live. They do a quick cut on the drills and you can never hear the commentary beyond the 5 seconds it takes to run the drill.

It will be telling to see where he finally does get drafted. For a guy that's touted as a passrusher I don't see it because every good passrusher in the NFL puts up stellar numbers.

My question, and I'm not trying to be a smart ass or anything like that, is did you see it two weeks ago?  

If you didn't, if he put up monster (or even pretty good) numbers at the combine, would that have changed your mind?

[HawkeyeJet]

2 minutes ago, RobR said:

Here is an article about his combine which was poor. It is also very glowing about his prospects in the future but doesn't absolve him of his poor performance and they don't even get into the drills.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2878147-nfl-scouting-combine-notebook-did-aj-epenesa-crater-his-draft-stock#slide1

That's essentially my point.  I didn't (or wasn't trying to) absolve him of his bad testing.  I said in a previous post he tested poorly.  The combine tests a lot of stuff, but is mainly rooted in speed and quick twitch athleticism.  That's never been his game.  He still was a force.  That's up to him(and whichever team drafts him) to figure out how to continue to do that.

[RobR]

2 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

My question, and I'm not trying to be a smart ass or anything like that, is did you see it two weeks ago?  

If you didn't, if he put up monster (or even pretty good) numbers at the combine, would that have changed your mind?

I didn't care for Epenesa as a passrusher because he looks stiff and is not a bend turn the edge guy. I'm pretty sure even you alluded to this in the past. 

I agree that the combine is not the end all be all for evaluations, and in most cases it's not even close. It's just another tool along the evaluation spectrum. But if you are a passrusher, which he is billed as, you better put up some stellar numbers because IMO the combine is more important for a passrusher than other position and it's not even close. Just take a look at all of the good passrushers in the NFL and they all have one thing in common. Freakish athletic ability which translates to freakish numbers. Epenesa has neither.

[GREENBEAN]

17 minutes ago, RobR said:

I'm not here to tout Willekes because that is certainly not the case, just pointing they look almost identical on paper. I also don't think Epenesa can play 5 tech.......way too light. IMO a 5 tech needs to be a minimum of 290-300lbs. He needs to play in a 4-3, either inside or outside.

I know I'm just jumping in here and its not necessarily what you're saying but.... Willekas is at best a late 3rd or 4th rd pick and a project. He's already gained something like 12 lbs and is most likely going to need a few more. 270 lbs maybe. But he's got the heart to make it.   Epenesa is supposed to be a turn key edge guy who can impact the field right away. or at least that's what his projected draft position would indicate. 

The fact they had had similar numbers could mean two things. 1. Willekes is actually a tad more athletic than people thought. a 7.39 3 cone is right in the pocket and 32 reps is solid. 

or

2. Epenesa is not going to carry the weight of a high first rd pick very well outside of the Arizona or Carolina types where they let people take more time than in Chicago or NY etc. 

I love me some Kenny Willekes and believe in him but I think his numbers were right about where they should have been at the combine. Epenesa had a poor day.  I wonder if he slips out of the first. You think that's possible? 

[RobR]

8 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

I love me some Kenny Willekes and believe in him but I think his numbers were right about where they should have been at the combine. Epenesa had a poor day.  I wonder if he slips out of the first. You think that's possible? 

I wouldn't be surprised if he fell to the second because his draft hype is all about him rushing the passer. There is not one player with his measurables that plays defensive line in the NFL that sacks the QB. I think he's more of a great college player that transitions to a good player in the NFL. 

[Sarge4Tide]

Looking forward to seeing some post combine mock drafts from legitimate analysts over the next few days  

[New York Mick]

47 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

That’s fair, but I’d be tempted to pull the trigger on Epenesa in round two.

I’d rather them take a WR or IOL in the second but I wouldn’t lose it if they took Epenesa in the second. I’ve seen him play enough games to know he can play. If they take him at 11 I’ll lose my sh*t. 

[GREENBEAN]

29 minutes ago, Sarge4Tide said:

Looking forward to seeing some post combine mock drafts from legitimate analysts over the next few days  

Thanks.  I'll be sure to get right on one for ya.   hahahahahahaaaaaa