2015 Coulda Been Special

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

That's fine, because he was bad down the stretch and if a guy plays it is totally fair to judge him on his play - as long as you acknowledge that he had a very serious injury that was just as serious as either of Pennington's torn rotator cuff injuries. 

A torn biceps tendon isn't a joke for a guy who makes his living throwing a football. 

I didn't see much difference btw early in the year to late in the year.  He looked like a guy winging it out there, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.  I just wish we got the 2009 version that cared because the SB was up for grabs that year and if he played like a HOFer or if we had our 09 team in 08 I think we win the SB.

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

Yes, that play was just as instrumental in getting instant replay instituted again as the vinny QB draw was. 

The Vinny call was terrible, a very rare one that went our way but keyshawn caught a TD right before and was pushed out.  If that play us properly called the sneak play never happens.  The Leon play was much bigger but since it went against us no one cared.

[Ian Fleming]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

 

 

Crapping out in the 1998 AFC champ game was most gut-wrenching for me. I was young, impressionable and we def. would've beat Atlanta to get our first ring since my dad was that age. One day when the last person to see the Jets win it all in SBIII dies, it will be like when the last WWII vet dies.

Then to follow that up with week 1 of the 1999 season... the day I became a SOJF and @SAR I's life nemesis.

I Entered the age Of disillusionment at the same time (1999-2000).

I started paying attention to the game during the mostly disastrous 91-97 seasons. Thought the Parcells era was a return to normalcy.

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, K_O_Brien said:

Week 16, losing to the 3-11 Seahawks in 2008 was rough. They had Seneca Wallace at QB and were down three o linemen. It was Holmgren's last game and the crowd was up for it. They were still crap though but beat us 13-3. 

That seasons we lost to teams QB'd by jamarcus Russell, Seneca Wallace, Matt Cassel in his first every start and Shaun Hill.  In those losses the opposing offenses averaged 17.3 PPG, our O averaged 10 PPG led by a HOF QB.

1 hour ago, jgb said:

 

 

Crapping out in the 1998 AFC champ game was most gut-wrenching for me. I was young, impressionable and we def. would've beat Atlanta to get our first ring since my dad was that age. One day when the last person to see the Jets win it all in SBIII dies, it will be like when the last WWII vet dies.

Then to follow that up with week 1 of the 1999 season... the day I became a SOJF and @SAR I's life nemesis.

That was so hard because I truly believe we were the best team that season but we had a million TOs, missed a chip shot FG, blew a 10 point second half lead,...

We were so hot too, had won 7 straight and 11 of 12.??

[slimjasi]

19 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I didn't see much difference btw early in the year to late in the year.  He looked like a guy winging it out there, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.  I just wish we got the 2009 version that cared because the SB was up for grabs that year and if he played like a HOFer or if we had our 09 team in 08 I think we win the SB.

I'm not a Favre guy either. He's one of the most overrated players in the history of the sport. 

He was awesome in his prime (94-2002ish), but was overrated for basically the last decade of his career and threw countless game-changing and even season-ending interceptions. 

[Jet hustle]

If revis wasnt playing 13 yards off Sammy watkins the ENTIRE game, we would have won easily.  Plus Bowles made no adjustments and was grossly outcoached by Rex Ryan .

[hamat711]

This shows how much coaching matters in the NFL. The Jets were stacked in 2015 and missed the playoffs. Buffalo fans also reference the 2015 roster as wasted, and we only went 8-8.

In 2015 the Bills roster was loaded with talent at every single position.. The talent on the 2015 Bills makes the 2019 Bills look like a JV team. They had a top 5 O-line. They had the best rushing game in the league led by Lesean Mccoy and Karlos Williams (he was a Derrick Henry clone but ate himself out the league after his rookie year. Just look up his stats and highlights if you don't believe me). Our WRs were Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, Marquise Goodwin, Chris Hogan and Percy Harvin. On defense, we had 4 All-pros or pro-bowlers on our D-Line. We had Stephon Gilmore, Ronald Darby who was runner up to DROY, and Nickel Robey Coleman.

I look at Rex Ryan as a fraud after his stint with the Bills.

My point is, coaching matters. Both the Jets and Bills had playoff caliber rosters held back by bad coaching.

As a Bills fan, I hope Gase never leaves the Jets.

 

 

[nyjunc]

5 hours ago, hamat711 said:

This shows how much coaching matters in the NFL. The Jets were stacked in 2015 and missed the playoffs. Buffalo fans also reference the 2015 roster as wasted, and we only went 8-8.

In 2015 the Bills roster was loaded with talent at every single position.. The talent on the 2015 Bills makes the 2019 Bills look like a JV team. They had a top 5 O-line. They had the best rushing game in the league led by Lesean Mccoy and Karlos Williams (he was a Derrick Henry clone but ate himself out the league after his rookie year. Just look up his stats and highlights if you don't believe me). Our WRs were Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, Marquise Goodwin, Chris Hogan and Percy Harvin. On defense, we had 4 All-pros or pro-bowlers on our D-Line. We had Stephon Gilmore, Ronald Darby who was runner up to DROY, and Nickel Robey Coleman.

I look at Rex Ryan as a fraud after his stint with the Bills.

My point is, coaching matters. Both the Jets and Bills had playoff caliber rosters held back by bad coaching.

As a Bills fan, I hope Gase never leaves the Jets.

 

 

The 2015 bills roster wasn't close to this year and they had a million key injuries that year.  The fact that they were .500 was a miracle.  It was similar to the Jets this past season.

If you switch the coaches in that game the Jets win easily and make the playoffs.  One coach had his dead, depleted, less ranted talented team ready to play while we were stuck with Todd Bowles.

[Jet Nut]

21 hours ago, nyjunc said:

While that one was tough I don't think we have any chance to win at NE the next week just like in 86 if we beat Cleveland I doubt we beat Denver the next week and if we did we would not have been able to beat the Giants in the SB so while those were both awful, awful ways to lose I don't put them above the 82, 97 and 10 AFC championship games where I think we would have had great chances to win super bowls.

And I thought we would have won, at least had a good chance of beating the Broncos given we beat them pretty easily that season.

[nyjunc]

20 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And I thought we would have won, at least had a good chance of beating the Broncos given we beat them pretty easily that season.

Remember that we still weren't completely healthy, had lost 5 straight(all blow outs) before the Cleveland game and Pat Ryan got hurt vs Cleveland which was why we lost so if Ken had to start the next week there's no way we'd have a chance.  

[Jet Nut]

27 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Remember that we still weren't completely healthy, had lost 5 straight(all blow outs) before the Cleveland game and Pat Ryan got hurt vs Cleveland which was why we lost so if Ken had to start the next week there's no way we'd have a chance.  

Kenny was a better QB than Ryan.  I could care less about all the reasons you dont like Kenny.  Ryan was always a scrub IMO.  I get we were injured but still we beat Denver once and I would have liked our chances.

[nyjunc]

18 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Kenny was a better QB than Ryan.  I could care less about all the reasons you dont like Kenny.  Ryan was always a scrub IMO.  I get we were injured but still we beat Denver once and I would have liked our chances.

Kenny never won a playoff game when he was handed one of the most talented teams in the AFC.

Putting that aside he was beyond awful to end the 1986 season.  Last 5 games the offense averaged 9.4 PPG.  The offense scored 28 with Ryan in the wild card game, the offense had 7 points in one quarter before Ryan left and the O did virtually nothing the rest of regulation and 2 OTs outside of a Freeman McNeil 25 yard TD run on a drive that started at the Cleveland 25. The O scored 13(with most on that Freeman run which Ken had nothing to do with) in 5 qtrs with ken which prorates to a little over 10 points.  Right in line with that 9.4 PPG average.

I know since jet fans think more highly of Ken than guys like Vinny, Chad and Sanchez but the reality was he was awful to end 1986 and desire his talent he never won a single playoff game.

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Kenny never won a playoff game when he was handed one of the most talented teams in the AFC.

Putting that aside he was beyond awful to end the 1986 season.  Last 5 games the offense averaged 9.4 PPG.  The offense scored 28 with Ryan in the wild card game, the offense had 7 points in one quarter before Ryan left and the O did virtually nothing the rest of regulation and 2 OTs outside of a Freeman McNeil 25 yard TD run on a drive that started at the Cleveland 25. The O scored 13(with most on that Freeman run which Ken had nothing to do with) in 5 qtrs with ken which prorates to a little over 10 points.  Right in line with that 9.4 PPG average.

I know since jet fans think more highly of Ken than guys like Vinny, Chad and Sanchez but the reality was he was awful to end 1986 and desire his talent he never won a single playoff game.

OMG, all I said is that Kenny was the better QB and that they beat the Broncos that year in the regular season so had a good chance they could beat them in the playoffs.

Didnt require a diatribe on why Kenny wasn't good or they might not have won.  Oh, and Kenny was better than all those QB listed.  He played on flawed teams, plain and simple.  Put Kenny on the 09 & 10 teams and we're in the SB. 

[hamat711]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

The 2015 bills roster wasn't close to this year and they had a million key injuries that year.  The fact that they were .500 was a miracle.  It was similar to the Jets this past season.

If you switch the coaches in that game the Jets win easily and make the playoffs.  One coach had his dead, depleted, less ranted talented team ready to play while we were stuck with Todd Bowles.

Did you just compare the 2019 Jets to the 2015 Bills? Besides for LB and Safety the entire Bills roster was better by a large margin.

I don;t know why you would want Rex as your coach. He got figured out a long time ago and hasn't adapted since. 

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

OMG, all I said is that Kenny was the better QB and that they beat the Broncos that year in the regular season so had a good chance they could beat them in the playoffs.

Didnt require a diatribe on why Kenny wasn't good or they might not have won.  Oh, and Kenny was better than all those QB listed.  He played on flawed teams, plain and simple.  Put Kenny on the 09 & 10 teams and we're in the SB. 

I'm just trying to teach you, you obviously don't remember what was happening that year.

No, put Sanchez on the 85-86 teams and we make the SB.  Since guys just can't play under pressure.

[nyjunc]

54 minutes ago, hamat711 said:

Did you just compare the 2019 Jets to the 2015 Bills? Besides for LB and Safety the entire Bills roster was better by a large margin.

I don;t know why you would want Rex as your coach. He got figured out a long time ago and hasn't adapted since. 

I compared them with regards to injuries.  Both were injury ravaged but our much better QB missed 3 games and played one more with mono.

Rex was a very good coach, certainly much better than Todd Bowles.  I like the bills current coach though he killed them in that playoff loss.  He's 0-2 in the playoffs, Rex is 4-2.

[hamat711]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

I compared them with regards to injuries.  Both were injury ravaged but our much better QB missed 3 games and played one more with mono.

Rex was a very good coach, certainly much better than Todd Bowles.  I like the bills current coach though he killed them in that playoff loss.  He's 0-2 in the playoffs, Rex is 4-2.

I have no clue what you are talking about.

Besides for Aaron Williams, Percy Harvin and Kyle Williams, the 2015 Bills were relatively healthy.

[nyjunc]

49 minutes ago, hamat711 said:

I have no clue what you are talking about.

Besides for Aaron Williams, Percy Harvin and Kyle Williams, the 2015 Bills were relatively healthy.

EJ Manuel started 2 games

McCoy missed 3 games including the week 17 game

Karlos Williams missed 5

Watkins missed 3

Clay missed 3

Multiple starting OL missed multiple games

Dareus missed a game

Gilmore 4 games

Mckelvin 7

Mario Williams 1

Kyle Williams 10

 

But yeah they were relatively healthy

 

[hamat711]

 

21 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

EJ Manuel started 2 games

McCoy missed 3 games including the week 17 game

Karlos Williams missed 5

Watkins missed 3

Clay missed 3

Multiple starting OL missed multiple games

Dareus missed a game

Gilmore 4 games

Mckelvin 7

Mario Williams 1

Kyle Williams 10

 

But yeah they were relatively healthy

 

That isn't close to the injuries the Jets sustained.

Everybody gets injuries. What you posted isn't out of the norm. That doesn't justify going 8-8 with that roster. The Defense fell apart despite having an abundance of talent to be a top 5 unit.

Outside of Kyle, Percy and Aaron, none of the key starters missed significant time.

[nyjunc]

59 minutes ago, hamat711 said:

 

That isn't close to the injuries the Jets sustained.

Everybody gets injuries. What you posted isn't out of the norm. That doesn't justify going 8-8 with that roster. The Defense fell apart despite having an abundance of talent to be a top 5 unit.

Outside of Kyle, Percy and Aaron, none of the key starters missed significant time.

They didn't have a good QB and that QB missed time.  If they were close healthy that week 17 game may have been for a playoff spot.

[hamat711]

34 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

They didn't have a good QB and that QB missed time.  If they were close healthy that week 17 game may have been for a playoff spot.

The offense was in the top half of the league in both points and yards. Tyrod only missed two games and he had 24 Tds and 7 turnovers. He was the perfect game manager supported by the best run game in the league. The Bills led the league in attempts and yards per carry.

The defense took a massive step back with Ryan's stubborn ways.

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I'm just trying to teach you, you obviously don't remember what was happening that year.

No, put Sanchez on the 85-86 teams and we make the SB.  Since guys just can't play under pressure.

There is no part of the game that you are capable of teaching me or anyone else about.

Sanchez sucked beyond belief.  He couldn't on his best day carry KOs jock.  Never.  Couldn't come close to the multitude of games where KO carried the team with hid passing.

This is the absolute worst example of anyone trying to make a case for teaching the game to anyone. KO takes us to back to back SBs

This doesn't require a reply, as hard as it is for you to leave it alone.

[Philc1]

On 3/26/2020 at 10:57 PM, Jet hustle said:

If revis wasnt playing 13 yards off Sammy watkins the ENTIRE game, we would have won easily.  Plus Bowles made no adjustments and was grossly outcoached by Rex Ryan .

Watkins was burning Revis in every snap.  He had to play off him to avoid getting 6 tds thrown his way during the game

 

That game we learned Bowles had no idea how to make in game adjustments 

 

[Philc1]

18 hours ago, hamat711 said:

 

That isn't close to the injuries the Jets sustained.

Everybody gets injuries. What you posted isn't out of the norm. That doesn't justify going 8-8 with that roster. The Defense fell apart despite having an abundance of talent to be a top 5 unit.

Outside of Kyle, Percy and Aaron, none of the key starters missed significant time.

The bills were 9-7 the year before under Marrone 

 

Not sure how they had this all time great roster but ok

 

[TNJet]

Fitzy lost the game. He was horrible.

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, TNJet said:

Fitzy lost the game. He was horrible.

He was bad but the playcalling should have been more conservative on that drive when they got in the red zone and Fitz threw the pick.  Settle for the fg and the game at least goes into OT

[Philc1]

On 3/26/2020 at 10:11 AM, nyjunc said:

The Jets have only lost 4 true win and in games in their history.  1993, 1997, 2000 and 2015.  

 

I would say 1993 was the toughest, in week 18(there were 2 byes that year) we needed Miami to lose that afternoon to NE and it happened.  Houston was resting starters including Warren Moon and we didn't score a point in the loss.

1997 was tough but going from 1 win in 96 to 9 in 97 was huge and we had our best coaching staff ever.

2000 was probably as painful as 93.  93 we were 8-5 and lost 3 straight needing one win, 2000 we were 9-4 and list 3 straight needing one win.  In week 17 of 2000 we needed to win at Baltimore while they were trying to get home field in the WC round.  We led 14-0 and despite 500+ yds of O and Baltimore gaining less than 150 yds of O we lost 34-20 allowing 2 punt return TDs and a 98 yard int return TD.

2015 was also brutal, I think we had won 5 in a row even though we struggled vs some bad teams but having Pitt lose the week before and us beating NE in thrilling fashion in OT(with the help of some head scratching moves by BB) it looked like we had it but the team didn't even show up vs a buf team that was far less talented and was hurt.  

‘97 I was so thrilled with 9 wins after 4-28 the previous two years I literally didn’t care 

 

The Lions player getting the spinal injury also put things in perspective 

[nyjunc]

16 hours ago, hamat711 said:

The offense was in the top half of the league in both points and yards. Tyrod only missed two games and he had 24 Tds and 7 turnovers. He was the perfect game manager supported by the best run game in the league. The Bills led the league in attempts and yards per carry.

The defense took a massive step back with Ryan's stubborn ways.

Only missed 2 games and they lost both games.  The record goes from 8-8 to 10-6 if they win those and depending on tiebreakers a playoff spot.

I wonder if McCoy could have helped by playing 4 more games? Or karlos Williams playing 5 more?

The D did take a step back, he didn't bring in any of his guys to help with the transition and a bunch of guys who never won anything didn't buy in.

[nyjunc]

16 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

There is no part of the game that you are capable of teaching me or anyone else about.

Sanchez sucked beyond belief.  He couldn't on his best day carry KOs jock.  Never.  Couldn't come close to the multitude of games where KO carried the team with hid passing.

This is the absolute worst example of anyone trying to make a case for teaching the game to anyone. KO takes us to back to back SBs

This doesn't require a reply, as hard as it is for you to leave it alone.

 

O'Brien inherited a young team that was maybe the most talented in the AFC.  He was drafted a couple of months after that young team was 30 minutes from the super bowl.  He didn't win a single playoff game in his entire career yet his backup in 1 full playoff game won one and was on his way to winning anther before he got hurt and the offense went in the tank again with Ken at QB.

Mark Sanchez never led his O to less than 17 points in a playoff game, the most points Ken led his O to was 10 points but yeah back to back super bowls if we had Ken in 09 & 10??

 

Please stop talking about this, you only make it worse with each post.

[Defense Wins Championships]

It's really hard to blame "Todd Bowles" or anyone else for that matter who is not named Ryan sh*tztragic for losing to and blowing the Buffalo game (week 17).

Because he is the one (nobody else) who pissed away and tossed 3 crap interceptions (all 3 during the 4th quarter) and he is the one who immediately ended our season on that day.

While having a laughable completion percentage of only 43% throughout the game, three 4th quarter INT's and had himself an atrocious QB Rating of 42.7.

He is the sole reason why we lost that game by 5 points. 

But when I think of sh*tztragic this (below) is what I think about...

15 years.                                                     

8 different teams.                                      

0 Postseason appearances.

55-83-1 (.395%).     

[hamat711]

3 hours ago, Philc1 said:

The bills were 9-7 the year before under Marrone 

 

Not sure how they had this all time great roster but ok

 

Because we didn't have Tyrod, Mccoy, Karlos, Incognito, 2 other offensive lineman, and Charles Clay. 

QB - Tyrod Taylor. Put up 24 TDs and 7 Turnovers in 14 games. Was on pace for 4000 yards, 27 TDs and 8 Turnovers, which was perfect as a game manager.

RB - Mccoy, Karlos Williams, Mike Gilislee - The best RB duo in the league in 2015 and the deepest backfield at the time

WRs - Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, Chris Hogan, Marquise Goodwin, Percy Harvin. That WR group is stacked.

OL - A top 5 O-line, with 2 pro bowlers.

CBs - Stephon Gilmore (Future DPOY), Ronald Darby (DROY runner-up), Nickel Robey-Coleman (one of the best slot cbs), Leodis Mckelvin (Former first rounder),

DL - 3 of the 4 lineman were coming off all pro seasons, and the 4th guy still had 10 sacks. They were the best D-line in 2014. Jerry Hughes, Marcel Dareus, Kyle Williams, and Mario Williams.

LBs- Nigel Bradham, Preston Brown and Manny Lawson. Not the best unit but not a weakness either.

S - We had decent safety players on paper with Aaron Williams and Corey Graham, but Williams got hurt.

So many of the players I listed are still relevant today which is rare in the NFL. The roster was stacked. It was also stacked in 2016, so it wasn't just 1 off year by Rex. The 2014 Bills were close to breaking the playoff drought with Marrone, but the 2015, and 2016 Rosters were definitely playoff rosters. Even after that roster was dismantled, with the help of Sean Mcdermott we made the playoffs with the leftovers of that stacked roster in 2017.

 

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, hamat711 said:

Because we didn't have Tyrod, Mccoy, Karlos, Incognito, 2 other offensive lineman, and Charles Clay. 

QB - Tyrod Taylor. Put up 24 TDs and 7 Turnovers in 14 games. Was on pace for 4000 yards, 27 TDs and 8 Turnovers, which was perfect as a game manager.

RB - Mccoy, Karlos Williams, Mike Gilislee - The best RB duo in the league in 2015 and the deepest backfield at the time

WRs - Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, Chris Hogan, Marquise Goodwin, Percy Harvin. That WR group is stacked.

OL - A top 5 O-line, with 2 pro bowlers.

CBs - Stephon Gilmore (Future DPOY), Ronald Darby (DROY runner-up), Nickel Robey-Coleman (one of the best slot cbs), Leodis Mckelvin (Former first rounder),

DL - 3 of the 4 lineman were coming off all pro seasons, and the 4th guy still had 10 sacks. They were the best D-line in 2014. Jerry Hughes, Marcel Dareus, Kyle Williams, and Mario Williams.

LBs- Nigel Bradham, Preston Brown and Manny Lawson. Not the best unit but not a weakness either.

S - We had decent safety players on paper with Aaron Williams and Corey Graham, but Williams got hurt.

So many of the players I listed are still relevant today which is rare in the NFL. The roster was stacked. It was also stacked in 2016, so it wasn't just 1 off year by Rex. The 2014 Bills were close to breaking the playoff drought with Marrone, but the 2015, and 2016 Rosters were definitely playoff rosters. Even after that roster was dismantled, with the help of Sean Mcdermott we made the playoffs with the leftovers of that stacked roster in 2017.

 

Fun fact: that all time great roster won a whole one more game the previous season

[hamat711]

2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Fun fact: that all time great roster won a whole one more game the previous season

That's my point. Coaching matters.