Warfish Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 On 5/12/2020 at 5:15 PM, Philc1 said: He was also arguably the first American sports star who transcended sports to other forms of entertainment. He hosted the Tonight Show and even had his own talk show besides being in movies Up to that point the most that happened was Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle having cameo roles in films Think you might be forgetting a little known boxer named Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali, who was just prior to and concurrent with Namath, and who was far more famous universally. Ali was World Champion in 1964. The year before Namath took his first snap as a NY Jet. Namath basically followed the Ali "Big Loud Personality" model of mid-late 60's fame. I also would say that Namath's lack of focus of football and focus instead on fame and Hollywood was not a positive for his play or career. Better knees, more focus, less hollywood, then maybe he might be in the Top 10 talk outside of Jets Forums lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Willie White Shoes Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 On 5/12/2020 at 8:53 AM, nyjunc said: Namath is a vital character in the history of this game but his career was very overrated. Much of that was due to health but that's part of it. The man once made a conference championship with no run game, reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney as his main weapons. He won his first 3 SBs with guys like antowain Smith (he got prime Dillon for the third), Troy brown, David Patten, ... The only great player he had for an extended period of time was Gronk and he was always hurt which included missing the SB run that ended with the comeback in Atlanta. Pretty impressive to lose 5 more games with Cassel than they did a year earlier with Brady AND miss the playoffs. Jimmy was a whopping 2-0 against bad teams and he's been pretty good in SF, wouldn't you say? Brissett won one game, a game his D shut the opponent out In total without Brady as his starter BB is 54-63 with 5 losing seasons in 7 seasons which includes 1 wild card playoff appearance. Impressive stuff. The fans that bash Rex or Gase, those guys have a better resume as a HC than BB does without Brady. Football is the ultimate team sport. “Brady” didn’t win those SBs. The Patriots did. Should QBs be judged solely by rings? Is Trent Dilfer a better QB than Marino? How differently would Elway be perceived if he didn’t ride a dominant running game to 2 SBs late in his career? I could go on and on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 12 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said: Football is the ultimate team sport. “Brady” didn’t win those SBs. The Patriots did. Should QBs be judged solely by rings? Is Trent Dilfer a better QB than Marino? How differently would Elway be perceived if he didn’t ride a dominant running game to 2 SBs late in his career? I could go on and on Brady was the difference maker, there was one constant amount players for all the championships. Obviously no one player does it by himself but no one player was more vital to his team than Tom Brady. Just look at a Belichick's record with and without him. I do partially agree with you, elway was a lock HOFer before the SBs but they elevated him to a level he probably doesn't belong and it was thanks to TD. A non great QB can win 1 or even 2(Dilfer, Eli, flacco, Johnson, Willams, Rypien, Hostetler, Simms, etc...) But 6? That's not a coincidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxgreen Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 29 minutes ago, nyjunc said: Brady was the difference maker, there was one constant amount players for all the championships. Obviously no one player does it by himself but no one player was more vital to his team than Tom Brady. Just look at a Belichick's record with and without him. I do partially agree with you, elway was a lock HOFer before the SBs but they elevated him to a level he probably doesn't belong and it was thanks to TD. A non great QB can win 1 or even 2(Dilfer, Eli, flacco, Johnson, Willams, Rypien, Hostetler, Simms, etc...) But 6? That's not a coincidence. Brady got a Top 7 scoring defense, 9 times in 17 seasons; Peyton, Brees & Rodgers 10 times in 44. Top Ten Defense, 14 times. Those other guys, 12 times in 44 seasons. Brady is still the GOAT. but the support he has gotten for that length of time is underrepresented. I still think if all things equalized, he'd still be Top 3 all time in terms of pure ability. Where I think he proves his greatness is that his receiving core wasn't always among the Top 10 when he was at the Pats. But again defense is huge. Since that defense gives you back the ball and control of the clock. Peyton may be a better QB all things considered when you get down to sheer ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, pdxgreen said: Brady got a Top 7 scoring defense, 9 times in 17 seasons; Peyton, Brees & Rodgers 10 times in 44. Top Ten Defense, 14 times. Those other guys, 12 times in 44 seasons. Brady is still the GOAT. but the support he has gotten for that length of time is underrepresented. I still think if all things equalized, he'd still be Top 3 all time in terms of pure ability. Where I think he proves his greatness is that his receiving core wasn't always among the Top 10 when he was at the Pats. But again scoring defense is huge. Since that defense gives you back the ball and control of the clock. Peyton may be a better QB all things considered when you get down to sheer ability. Also cheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxgreen Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: Also cheating. Damn. And now his getting his best WR core since the Moss era. This dude just gets extra cherries on his Sundaes whenever he wants. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 41 minutes ago, pdxgreen said: Brady got a Top 7 scoring defense, 9 times in 17 seasons; Peyton, Brees & Rodgers 10 times in 44. Top Ten Defense, 14 times. Those other guys, 12 times in 44 seasons. Brady is still the GOAT. but the support he has gotten for that length of time is underrepresented. I still think if all things equalized, he'd still be Top 3 all time in terms of pure ability. Where I think he proves his greatness is that his receiving core wasn't always among the Top 10 when he was at the Pats. But again defense is huge. Since that defense gives you back the ball and control of the clock. Peyton may be a better QB all things considered when you get down to sheer ability. Peyton's defenses allowed LESS PPG in postseason than the supposed better NE D's. The pats D's came up small so many times in big games and were rescued so many times by Brady. There's a reason every HC Peyton played for did better without Peyton than BB did without Brady. You switch the QBs and the colts become a dynasty. As far as the D giving him the ball back, the NE D's were bend but don't break, they have up yards, they have up TOP, they didn't give up a ton of points in most years but losing TOP limits offensive production. They were top 10 in yards allowed only 7 times, top 5 only 2 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 39 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: Also cheating. It's just amazing how the cheating only works with Brady. Funny how that worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxgreen Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, nyjunc said: Peyton's defenses allowed LESS PPG in postseason than the supposed better NE D's. The pats D's came up small so many times in big games and were rescued so many times by Brady. There's a reason every HC Peyton played for did better without Peyton than BB did without Brady. You switch the QBs and the colts become a dynasty. As far as the D giving him the ball back, the NE D's were bend but don't break, they have up yards, they have up TOP, they didn't give up a ton of points in most years but losing TOP limits offensive production. They were top 10 in yards allowed only 7 times, top 5 only 2 times. Cassell went 11-5 when Brady was out. I wouldn't call that doing worse without Brady. His years at Cleveland I don't count because he was hampered by sh*tty ownership and the franchise imploding from inside. Now if Brady balls out at TB and Belicheck falls on his own sword going with the new guy... I think that argument is totally valid. You can't say that Peyton's success with other coaches really means much of anything because Brady had it too. Hey. And how about my boy Payton Pritchard being the All American PG. Wasn't that cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, pdxgreen said: Cassell went 11-5 when Brady was out. I wouldn't call that doing worse without Brady. His years at Cleveland I don't count because he was hampered by sh*tty ownership and the franchise imploding from inside. Now if Brady balls out at TB and Belicheck falls on his own sword going with the new guy... I think that argument is totally valid. You can't say that Peyton's success with other coaches really means much of anything because Brady had it too. Hey. And how about my boy Payton Pritchard being the All American PG. Wasn't that cool! 7 full seasons without Brady 5 losing seasons 1 wild card playoff app 36-44 in Cleveland 18-19 in New England. Peyton's HCs without Peyton: Jim Mora: 93-74, 4 playoff apps Tony Dungy: 54-42, 4 playoff apps, made NFC Championship Game Jim Caldwell: made playoffs 2 times in 4 years with Lions John Fox: 4 playoff apps, Super Bowl app, 2 NFC Championship Games, made divisional round with TIM TEBOW Gary Kubiak: 2 division titles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, pdxgreen said: Cassell went 11-5 when Brady was out. I wouldn't call that doing worse without Brady. His years at Cleveland I don't count because he was hampered by sh*tty ownership and the franchise imploding from inside. Now if Brady balls out at TB and Belicheck falls on his own sword going with the new guy... I think that argument is totally valid. You can't say that Peyton's success with other coaches really means much of anything because Brady had it too. Hey. And how about my boy Payton Pritchard being the All American PG. Wasn't that cool! With regards to Cassel, they lost 5 more games than the year before and did it against a weaker schedule while missing the playoffs. He coached the old browns, they had just made the AFC Championship Game 3 times in the previous 5 years and would turn into the Ravens after he left. Brady is 43, I think he'll do well but he's 43. BB had a real chance without him, Brady has the end of his career without BB. Good for Pritchard, good player. I enjoyed his Final Four app and the battle for Atlantis this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxgreen Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 14 minutes ago, nyjunc said: With regards to Cassel, they lost 5 more games than the year before and did it against a weaker schedule while missing the playoffs. He coached the old browns, they had just made the AFC Championship Game 3 times in the previous 5 years and would turn into the Ravens after he left. Brady is 43, I think he'll do well but he's 43. BB had a real chance without him, Brady has the end of his career without BB. Good for Pritchard, good player. I enjoyed his Final Four app and the battle for Atlantis this year. I should thank you guys for beating Gonzaga. I ___ hate their fans. They have this WCC inferiority complex that is just ridiculous. Although I agree with them that Few may be the best coach in the country. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 If I was a "fantasy" GM and could pick any player in the history of the game at each position to make my "Dream Team", I'd already have clear idea about the QB I'd take. Not Brady (system cog), Not Montana (ball velocity), Not Peyton Manning (I cant stand his face and his shrill whining on the sidelines) I'd take who I consider to be the best pure passer and the best "leader" in the huddle. A personality that took over and drove the offense along with transitional arm talent. Dan Marino... He should be a Tier 1 guy... And he did his work before the league was queer for passing. He operated when DB's could actually play and DE's and LB's were allowed to take your head off no questions asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 Elway needs to be on tier 2. And I’d take Marino and Elway before any of them but for historical premise I get it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 35 minutes ago, pdxgreen said: I should thank you guys for beating Gonzaga. I ___ hate their fans. They have this WCC inferiority complex that is just ridiculous. Although I agree with them that Few may be the best coach in the country. We should probably move this to the college basketball thread but I was never more nervous in that tournament than when they kept missing FTs late in that Oregon game. I had flashbacks to the National Championship Game the year before, luckily Meeks and Pinson got those offensive rebounds 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 19 minutes ago, THE BARON said: If I was a "fantasy" GM and could pick any player in the history of the game at each position to make my "Dream Team", I'd already have clear idea about the QB I'd take. Not Brady (system cog), Not Montana (ball velocity), Not Peyton Manning (I cant stand his face and his shrill whining on the sidelines) I'd take who I consider to be the best pure passer and the best "leader" in the huddle. A personality that took over and drove the offense along with transitional arm talent. Dan Marino... He should be a Tier 1 guy... And he did his work before the league was queer for passing. He operated when DB's could actually play and DE's and LB's were allowed to take your head off no questions asked. "System cog" even though he's the only guy who has been able to win big in that system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonderboy Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 5 hours ago, nyjunc said: The buttfumble was a meaningless play in a blowout loss but our great fans will remember that more than 4 playoff wins. Bottom line is Sanchez was not safe with the ball. Perhaps he could back up Daniel Jones ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxgreen Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 Just now, Wonderboy said: Bottom line is Sanchez was not safe with the ball. Perhaps he could back up Daniel Jones ? I remember when they brought Joe Torre in to teach Sanchez how to slide. I was like... Oh Boy. USC QB's! (Not hatin' Sam. Just being honest.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 20 minutes ago, Wonderboy said: Bottom line is Sanchez was not safe with the ball. Perhaps he could back up Daniel Jones ? He was very Eli like as a QB. 18 minutes ago, pdxgreen said: I remember when they brought Joe Torre in to teach Sanchez how to slide. I was like... Oh Boy. USC QB's! (Not hatin' Sam. Just being honest.) Joe Girardi, that was more of a fun PR thing after the Yankees won the World Series and Mark got hurt because he refused to slide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 2 hours ago, nyjunc said: "System cog" even though he's the only guy who has been able to win big in that system. Do you remember Matt Cassel ??? Looked very good in that system. Other teams became interested. Cassel left that system. Looked like a back-up from then on out. BB's assistant coaches are also system cogs. They get his laundry from the dry cleaners. Other owners and GM's hire his assistants and they all suck once they leave the confines of BB's system. Brady cant throw outside the numbers passed 20 yards or so. It is one of the ways the Jets were able to beat the Pats when Rex was the Jets HC. They not only mixed coverages, but they wisely funneled receivers outside past 10 yards. BB could win regularly with Stevie Wonder as his QB. Brady is a system complimentary QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 50 minutes ago, THE BARON said: Do you remember Matt Cassel ??? Looked very good in that system. Other teams became interested. Cassel left that system. Looked like a back-up from then on out. BB's assistant coaches are also system cogs. They get his laundry from the dry cleaners. Other owners and GM's hire his assistants and they all suck once they leave the confines of BB's system. Brady cant throw outside the numbers passed 20 yards or so. It is one of the ways the Jets were able to beat the Pats when Rex was the Jets HC. They not only mixed coverages, but they wisely funneled receivers outside past 10 yards. BB could win regularly with Stevie Wonder as his QB. Brady is a system complimentary QB. Matt Cassel lost 5 more games than the year before against a weaker schedule and missed the playoffs. Cassel had his best year in KC where he made the pro bowl and won a division title. Bill Belichick has coached 7 seasons without Tom Brady as his starting QB. 5 losing seasons 1 WC playoff appearance 36-44 in Cleveland 18-19 in New England Tom Brady is the system, that system hasn't won anything without him whether with BB as the HC or his impressive coaching tree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 1 hour ago, nyjunc said: Matt Cassel lost 5 more games than the year before against a weaker schedule and missed the playoffs. Cassel had his best year in KC where he made the pro bowl and won a division title. Bill Belichick has coached 7 seasons without Tom Brady as his starting QB. 5 losing seasons 1 WC playoff appearance 36-44 in Cleveland 18-19 in New England Tom Brady is the system, that system hasn't won anything without him whether with BB as the HC or his impressive coaching tree? GSCOAT - Greatest System Cog Of All Time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 24 minutes ago, THE BARON said: GSCOAT - Greatest System Cog Of All Time Bill Belichick has coached 7 seasons without Tom Brady as his starting QB. 5 losing seasons 1 WC playoff appearance 36-44 in Cleveland 18-19 in New England Should I post the numbers with Brady starting? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.