TE Darren Waller believes Raiders could have a 'top-five offense'

[JetPotato]

There's reason to not be shocked about this if it happens. Things we know:

1) Las Vegas is the gambling capital of the world, and corrupt as hell

2) The NFL tilts outcomes of games to its most profitable "stories"

3) Vegas' first professional sports team, an expansion hockey club, went to the NHL Finals in its first season

So yeah, the talent isn't top 5, but the results can be pushed that way.

[Raideraholic]

3 hours ago, predator_05 said:

Fair enough. Ruggs is also a very good route runner. Hopefully they have a plan for him. Lamb/Jeudy are plug-and-play in any offensive scheme.

I actually liked their next 2 picks: Bryan edwards and lynn bowden. Those 2 will be very useful at the NFL level (health permitting).

 

My mind went back to other 'speedy' WRs drafted early first round ahead of the more 'sure things' - like Ted Ginn, heyward-bey, philip dorsett, john ross...

There is so many ways they can utilize Ruggs .  He’s going to make Josh Jacobs, And D Waller job much easier.   Case in point.  They put Ruggs in motion, and fake the Jet sweep to him( everyone on defense has to account for his speed) than give to to Josh Jacobs going the other way.( Jacobs will never see eight man front again).
 

With T Williams hampered by bad case of   Plantar fasciitis , no defense respected the deep pass.  So many defenders left their man to jump on Waller.   You can’t do that with Ruggs as it showed in college he’s going demand a lot of attention. ( Freed Jeudy to see a lot single coverage).

[CrazyCarl40]

28 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

There's reason to not be shocked about this if it happens. Things we know:

1) Las Vegas is the gambling capital of the world, and corrupt as hell

2) The NFL tilts outcomes of games to its most profitable "stories"

3) Vegas' first professional sports team, an expansion hockey club, went to the NHL Finals in its first season

So yeah, the talent isn't top 5, but the results can be pushed that way.

The Vegas Golden Knights were an expansion team in name only. They basically got to pick to tier players from almost every team and we’re carried to the playoffs by an elite goaltender. They’ve found continued success in year two and three. I don’t believe that bullet point helps your argument here. 

[JetPotato]

2 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

The Vegas Golden Knights were an expansion team in name only. They basically got to pick to tier players from almost every team and we’re carried to the playoffs by an elite goaltender. They’ve found continued success in year two and three. I don’t believe that bullet point helps your argument here. 

Really? Aren't you questioning the format of the NHL expansion draft?

[predator_05]

2 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

There is so many ways they can utilize Ruggs .  He’s going to make Josh Jacobs, And D Waller job much easier.   Case in point.  They put Ruggs in motion, and fake the Jet sweep to him( everyone on defense has to account for his speed) than give to to Josh Jacobs going the other way.( Jacobs will never see eight man front again).
 

With T Williams hampered by bad case of   Plantar fasciitis , no defense respected the deep pass.  So many defenders left their man to jump on Waller.   You can’t do that with Ruggs as it showed in college he’s going demand a lot of attention. ( Freed Jeudy to see a lot single coverage).

Speed gives you an advantage, but very few coaches know how to utilize speed within an offensive scheme.

 

Would tyreek hill be the same player with a different coaching staff? Probably not. A lot has to go right for these guys to hit.

[Philc1]

On 6/17/2020 at 8:42 PM, slats said:

You think Mariota has any chance of bumping Carr? 

Not by merit.  Gruden falls in and out of love of qbs fast

[GREENBEAN]

His offense is prehistoric by todays standards. And even if he spruces it up, you can only get so much out of derek carr
Who the hell drafts Ruggs over Jeudy/Lamb?

Carr has thrown for just about 4000 yds the last 5 years while they have taken away his main weapons. I think he had something like 21/9 td/int last year too. Carr is not the problem.


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[GREENBEAN]

Taking a trip down memory lane in the NFL Draft of “sure thing” WR’s.  Peter Warrick (#4 overall to the Bengals!), Mike Williams, and Charles Rodgers. Just to name three. All were hyped like Jeudy and Lamb. All were colossal failures. 
 
My point is, we don’t know yet regarding Ruggs v Jeudy/Lamb. 

I Agree man
I’ll tell ya right now that Mims has all the ability to be the best of the bunch. I thought that before the draft, was flabbergasted while slipped to the bottom of the 2nd and jumped for joy when we landed him.
Ruggs going so early made me laugh.
Obviously we don’t know what will happen but Ruggs sure as hell wouldn’t have been my first choice out of the 6’ plus stud muffins available in this draft.


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[Raideraholic]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Not by merit.  Gruden falls in and out of love of qbs fast

Probably outside of Dc ( Paul Guenther) who has Rod Marinelli ( DL coach) waiting in the wings if the Raiders defense doesn’t make dramatic improvement in 2020.     J Gruden in the fans eyes  has the most to prove in 2020.( obviously with seven years still left on his contract He’s not going anywhere)  .

Still Gruden has so many weapons at his disposal now has to prove he can utilize all those weapons( design an imaginary game plan) , and not just play a boring two/ three Te formation relying heavy on the running game.    The Raiders should be able to play any style on offense that will work against the strength of opposing defense they are playing that week.   Raiders easily have a top five offense line , and  shouldn’t be afraid not to be spread defenses out.   Some  of Gruden formations he loves to run are garbage, and need to be thrown out.
 

[Philc1]

8 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

Carr has thrown for just about 4000 yds the last 5 years while they have taken away his main weapons. I think he had something like 21/9 td/int last year too. Carr is not the problem.


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Yes he is.  Watch the games he’s a checkdown guy hence the stats except Ws.  He’s Ryan Tannehill pre-handing off to Derrick Henry

 

The quarterbacks that win in this league take chances and throw downfield 

[peebag]

On 6/17/2020 at 12:25 PM, BurnleyJet said:

All off season I heard how Carr’s on his way out of Las Vegas.

because with him, the Faiders will not be successful.

[Raideraholic]

5 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Yes he is.  Watch the games he’s a checkdown guy hence the stats except Ws.  He’s Ryan Tannehill pre-handing off to Derrick Henry

 

The quarterbacks that win in this league take chances and throw downfield 

Carr is a checkdown QB under Gruden because that’s what Gruden offense wants.  Carr under Jack Delrio in 2016   took chances.    Carr in his best element is throwing from the shot gun(see his college tape) , and letting him throw to the best matchup he has. ( never been as comfortable under center).     Again Carr always is one of the best QBs throwing deep.( If Antonio Brown didn’t go off the wall you would have seen just how effective he is in the regard). 

Carr is stuck in Gruden ultraconservative offense- He wants to rely heavy on the running game.  Tough to play that way when your defense isn’t top notch. Puts too much Pressure on the offense to be perfect.  
Mayock has done a great job stacking the defense .   This should be the best defense Carr ever played with in his career. Raiders lb Corp Has  been garbage, that isn’t the case anymore Wlb Corey Littleton , MLB N Kwiatkowski ( both three down lbs) , and Sslb probably Tanner Muse - these guys are very comfortable playing in space.

[Philc1]

19 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

Carr is a checkdown QB under Gruden because that’s what Gruden offense wants.  Carr under Jack Delrio in 2016   took chances.    Carr in his best element is throwing from the shot gun(see his college tape) , and letting him throw to the best matchup he has. ( never been as comfortable under center).     Again Carr always is one of the best QBs throwing deep.( If Antonio Brown didn’t go off the wall you would have seen just how effective he is in the regard). 

Carr is stuck in Gruden ultraconservative offense- He wants to rely heavy on the running game.  Tough to play that way when your defense isn’t top notch. Puts too much Pressure on the offense to be perfect.  
Mayock has done a great job stacking the defense .   This should be the best defense Carr ever played with in his career. Raiders lb Corp Has  been garbage, that isn’t the case anymore Wlb Corey Littleton , MLB N Kwiatkowski ( both three down lbs) , and Sslb probably Tanner Muse - these guys are very comfortable playing in space.

I don’t see Carr lasting much longer under Gruden

[Raideraholic]

3 hours ago, Philc1 said:

I don’t see Carr lasting much longer under Gruden

Well Gruden will always have a fall guy, and the Raiders don’t win Carr will probably be the guy.  https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/raiders/raiders-derek-carr-was-third-best-qb-under-pressure-2019-nfl-season?amp&__twitter_impression=trueE

[Philc1]

19 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

Well Gruden will always have a fall guy, and the Raiders don’t win Carr will probably be the guy.  https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/raiders/raiders-derek-carr-was-third-best-qb-under-pressure-2019-nfl-season?amp&__twitter_impression=trueE

You don’t want Mariota either

[Raideraholic]

5 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

You don’t want Mariota either

Probably Mariota Is a better fit in J Gruden offense .( much better + more comfortable under Center than Carr- whose more comfortable out of the shotgun.  Carr talent is wasted in Gruden system .   ( heavy emphasis on the running game).       
 

Do I think Mariota has any shot of beating out Carr.  No. Still I think he’s way better backup than the giraffe (M  Glennon - who was garbage) .    Also he gives the Raiders some options on the goal line with MARIOTA at  Qb  , l Bowden, Jacobs At Rb , Te Waller , and two big Wr to win jump ball ( Tyrell Williams, and B Edwards) 

[slats]

4 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

Probably Mariota Is a better fit in J Gruden offense .( much better + more comfortable under Center than Carr- whose more comfortable out of the shotgun.  Carr talent is wasted in Gruden system .   ( heavy emphasis on the running game).       
 

Do I think Mariota has any shot of beating out Carr.  No. Still I think he’s way better backup than the giraffe (M  Glennon - who was garbage) .    Also he gives the Raiders some options on the goal line with MARIOTA at  Qb  , l Bowden, Jacobs At Rb , Te Waller , and two big Wr to win jump ball ( Tyrell Williams, and B Edwards) 

Hey man, you're generally a straight up homer, but this year I'm getting the sense that you're not particularly thrilled with Gruden. What's going on? 

[Raideraholic]

53 minutes ago, slats said:

Hey man, you're generally a straight up homer, but this year I'm getting the sense that you're not particularly thrilled with Gruden. What's going on? 

I was never a big fan of J Gruden ultra conservative boring offense. ( too much horizontal concepts, and not enough vertical)  Bill Callahan the very next year took Gruden offense( same players+offense ) and  made it the number one offense in all of football.( never would have happened Under Gruden.

The pressure is on Gruden to deliver a diverse offense , that isn’t so predictable .( heavy emphasis on the running game) .  The Raiders have a lot of talent on offense now , One of the top offense lines , and it’s a shame if they Don’t utilize all of there weapons.

 

J Gruden could have Patrick Mahomes  at Qb , and he could make him , and his offense look boring.( not that easy to do).

As a Raider fan I want to see a game plan that works against the strength of the opposing team.   For example, teams are weak against the run play your two/three Te formations and pound the rock all day.   Teams are good against the run, adapt and start throwing the football consistently. (/spread them out and utilize the weapons you have.).   Everything doesn’t have to be short, as you have the offense line to let plays develop down the field.

You have the play the game to win, and not play not to lose it.   You don’t get points for keeping it close.   Go for the throat mentality, and don’t let teams stay around long enough to see you lose it.

[The Crusher]

58 minutes ago, slats said:

Hey man, you're generally a straight up homer, but this year I'm getting the sense that you're not particularly thrilled with Gruden. What's going on? 

Yeah, this rational thing he’s doing is kinda pissing me off. 

[Raideraholic]

16 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Yeah, this rational thing he’s doing is kinda pissing me off. 

Again you want to play a boring offense , and put a heavy emphasis on the running game . You better have a top notch defense that will let you play that style.   If you don’t  have that type of defense ,than you put too much pressure on the offense to score every time.

I’m excited to see what the defense is capable of doing. They clearly upgraded the depth on the defense line.  Totally rebuilt one of the porous lb corps- Corey Littleton, Nick Kwiatkowski , probably Tanner Muse ( JavinWhite- highbred S /lb) gives them lbs that are comfortable playing in space.     There secondary looks very deep on paper both at safety , and at cb.    Still you are talking a lot of youth( second season, and rookie cbs you’re leaning on) .    ( T Mullen-second season, I Johnson - really rookie missed time with a freak injury , K Nixon - second season, Rookie D Arnette, and rookie A Robertson .  Why they signed Prince Akumara ( sp) to bring a veteran Precedence .  Safety d Randall with J Abram will be the starting safeties with Jeff Heath, and Erik Harris in reserve.   
 

The Raiders are stuck with Lamarcus Joyner who they say was hurt last year, because he was horrible as the nickel cb last year.  He will be on the roster will he play safety or cb.( making too much money to eat.

 

 

[T0mShane]

On 6/18/2020 at 7:32 AM, Raideraholic said:

There is so many ways they can utilize Ruggs .  He’s going to make Josh Jacobs, And D Waller job much easier.   Case in point.  They put Ruggs in motion, and fake the Jet sweep to him( everyone on defense has to account for his speed) than give to to Josh Jacobs going the other way.( Jacobs will never see eight man front again).
 

With T Williams hampered by bad case of   Plantar fasciitis , no defense respected the deep pass.  So many defenders left their man to jump on Waller.   You can’t do that with Ruggs as it showed in college he’s going demand a lot of attention. ( Freed Jeudy to see a lot single coverage).

2-14

[Jetsfan80]

@Raideraholic all that being said, Carr was the # 8 QB in the NFL last year, per DVOA.  So Gruden is doing something right, no?

Meanwhile, do you think he'll continue to be conservative after adding the fastest WR in the draft at # 12?

[Philc1]

On 6/21/2020 at 9:26 AM, Raideraholic said:

Probably Mariota Is a better fit in J Gruden offense .( much better + more comfortable under Center than Carr- whose more comfortable out of the shotgun.  Carr talent is wasted in Gruden system .   ( heavy emphasis on the running game).       
 

Do I think Mariota has any shot of beating out Carr.  No. Still I think he’s way better backup than the giraffe (M  Glennon - who was garbage) .    Also he gives the Raiders some options on the goal line with MARIOTA at  Qb  , l Bowden, Jacobs At Rb , Te Waller , and two big Wr to win jump ball ( Tyrell Williams, and B Edwards) 

Gruden thinks Mariota is this great reclamation project.  Mariota is a frickin bust

[Raideraholic]

54 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Gruden thinks Mariota is this great reclamation project.  Mariota is a frickin bust

Nathan Peterman is Gruden great reclamation project.( Will probably be on the practice squad , and be elevated to roster on game day).    Mariota is actually a good fit in Gruden offense .    Have no problem with the QBs situation this year.