Just the beginning

[BloodGreen]

I think the big college environments can morally and mentally corrupt these “king of the campus” QBs.  The challenge for JD is to distill what QB wants to be a great pro.
For one like Josh Rosen, Leinart or Darnold or even Sanchez, life does not get better than being the star QB for a LA university.  It just doesn’t.  I think the NFL is a huge lifestyle dropoff.  Look at the trouble Darnold (mono) and Sanchez (underaged dating) got into.  I think Leinart had similar issues.
I don’t think OSU is providing its football players with a real life experience.  Haskins was supposed to be a high quality person.  Stripclubbing during the COVID season ain’t a great look.
Zach Wilson will be all business, but homesick.  
From JD’s perspective though, if a takes one of the QBs he is fine reputationally.  If he busts, I don’t think people hold it against him.  If he passes and the one he passes on becomes a star, he is finished in the NFL, like Maccagnan is.  Seems like an easy choice to me. 

I like your post and see the overall logic, but how is Darnold coming done with Mono an indication of “trouble”? How is that on him? What did he do wrong?


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[56mehl56]

2 hours ago, JTJet said:

I simply put the numbers up and they tell a story that some of you dont want to hear. 

Fields probably is better than Haskins but I've seen both play, BOTH were great in college. 

But it is undeniable that Haskins had more success passing the ball than Fields, a LOT more success, not just a wee bit. 

Again, same coaching staff, same talent around them, same level of competition and Haskins obliterated Fields in the passing department. Better completion percentage, more yards, more TDs, and the same Average passing yards. 

Think about this, again comparable sophmore years with a full 13 games plus a bowl game... 

-Haskins had 5 performances just like what Fields showed last night, by all of your standards, you would have drafted Haskins in a heartbeat. 

-Haskins also never once threw for under 227 yards in a game, while Fields had 9 games under 227 yards! (3/4 of his season!) 

Just stop before you embarrass yourself further. 

[JTJet]

1 hour ago, ryu79 said:

Fields dedicates more of his snaps to running proactively than Haskins who was me of a pure pocket passer in College, so would naturally have more yards in air. That isn't a lazy generalization/excuse. 

I looked them up - Fields yards/atmpt and percentage were higher than Haskins throwing and he ran for 3-5x the yards. The stats just reflect a more balanced offense being run. 

Haskins didn't best Trevor Lawrence and Clemson in the Sugar Bowl. Ever. So again thats false. 

QBs dont play other QBs so besting Trevor Lawrence is irrelevant to this argument and Clemsons D is a joke. 

[56mehl56]

19 minutes ago, ryu79 said:

Closest thing I remember is maybe Watson beating Bama or Vince Young beating USC?

I see Fields as a Lamar Jackson style player with a frame closer to Josh Allen's (the fact he finished that game yesterday shows you his frame can take a hit, yikes). So maybe Cam is the better comparable as a combination of those attributes - though I get the sense Fields would rather throw than run a bit more in that balance. I hear the Moon comparison but I just remember Warren as a more classic drop back QB...it's been a while though.

But right now coming out of college , Fields is light years better as a passer than Jackson was/is . I think if you want  a better comparison I'd go with a more physical Russell Wilson. 

[56mehl56]

4 minutes ago, JTJet said:

QBs dont play other QBs so besting Trevor Lawrence is irrelevant to this argument and Clemsons D is a joke. 

That's not what I heard heading up to this game , the best D he'll face all year . 

[RESNewYork]

Occasional poster. Always reading here. I hope after last night there is no more doubt Fields is a jet. No more talk of keeping Darnold and drafting non qb at 2. 

Year sam was drafted I wanted to trade down for Jackson or stay put and keep the 2bd rounders for Allen. Same reason I want fields. 

Because they can all move the ball without supreme talent around them. These qbs can still score points while you build a team. And develop as you aquire talent. 

[ryu79]

1 hour ago, JTJet said:

QBs dont play other QBs so besting Trevor Lawrence is irrelevant to this argument and Clemsons D is a joke. 

The point I was making was that Fields pulled off those numbers in a huge upset against a heavily favored opponent that his school hadn't defeated in their last four attempts. 

I don't recall Haskins that kind of game under those kinds of conditions. 

Btw, that Clemson defense was ranked highest in total defense among the teams in the playoff. They put a ton of pressure on the quarterback and where I had expected him to fail based on the NW game he kept his head and hung in there, making some perfectly accurate long throws despite clearly being hurt. 

I'm not even sold on Fields over Wilson or Lawrence, btw, just don't think it's fair to say he is a similar prospect (certainly not inferior) to Haskins. 

[JTJet]

1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

That's not what I heard heading up to this game , the best D he'll face all year . 

Best D out of a bunch of sh*tty ones doesnt make them THE best D. 

[jgb]

4 hours ago, JTJet said:

I simply put the numbers up and they tell a story that some of you dont want to hear. 

Fields probably is better than Haskins but I've seen both play, BOTH were great in college. 

But it is undeniable that Haskins had more success passing the ball than Fields, a LOT more success, not just a wee bit. 

Again, same coaching staff, same talent around them, same level of competition and Haskins obliterated Fields in the passing department. Better completion percentage, more yards, more TDs, and the same Average passing yards. 

Think about this, again comparable sophmore years with a full 13 games plus a bowl game... 

-Haskins had 5 performances just like what Fields showed last night, by all of your standards, you would have drafted Haskins in a heartbeat. 

-Haskins also never once threw for under 227 yards in a game, while Fields had 9 games under 227 yards! (3/4 of his season!) 

Good summary of why Trevor is going #1. The media will try to inject drama but really there is none.

[JTJet]

14 minutes ago, ryu79 said:

That's obtuse. You know the point I was making was that Fields pulled off those numbers in a huge upset against a heavily favored opponent that his school hadn't defeated in their last four attempts. 

I don't recall Haskins that kind of game under those kinds of conditions. 

Btw, that Clemson defense was ranked highest in total defense among the teams in the playoff. They put a ton of pressure on the quarterback and where I had expected him to fail based on the NW game he kept his head and hung in there, making some perfectly accurate long throws despite clearly being hurt. 

I'm not even sold on Fields over Wilson or Lawrence, btw, just don't think it's fair to say he is a similar prospect (certainly not inferior) to Haskins. 

Clemsom was not heavily favored the last time I checked? Maybe in the minds of fans that prematurely fellated TD Jesus before the game, but pretty sure the betting line wasnt a heavy favorite. Again, D ranked highest among 4 defenses that give up a sh*t load of points is nothing to hang your hat on, and then they lost the centerpiece of their D on a debated call, magically, Fields looked better after he was out. 

Gase is the best sh*tty coach in the NFL, hows that work for logic and did that work out for him?  

[GaryM]

Clemson was a touchdown favorite.

Clemsom was not heavily favored the last time I checked? Maybe in the minds of fans that prematurely fellated TD Jesus before the game, but pretty sure the betting line wasnt a heavy favorite. Again, D ranked highest among 4 defenses that give up a sh*t load of points is nothing to hang your hat on, and then they lost the centerpiece of their D on a debated call, magically, Fields looked better after he was out. 
Gase is the best sh*tty coach in the NFL, hows that work for logic and did that work out for him?  

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[ryu79]

27 minutes ago, JTJet said:

Clemsom was not heavily favored the last time I checked? Maybe in the minds of fans that prematurely fellated TD Jesus before the game, but pretty sure the betting line wasnt a heavy favorite. Again, D ranked highest among 4 defenses that give up a sh*t load of points is nothing to hang your hat on, and then they lost the centerpiece of their D on a debated call, magically, Fields looked better after he was out. 

Gase is the best sh*tty coach in the NFL, hows that work for logic and did that work out for him?  

I'm not much of a gambler, but this seems like Clemson was well favored and every analyst (and I can't remember a poster here saying otherwise) had them winning comfortably last night. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/dknation.draftkings.com/platform/amp/2021/1/1/22206761/sugar-bowl-picks-clemson-vs-ohio-state-predictions-betting-lines-splits-point-spread-moneyline

The point stands - this was a big stage and I don't recall Haskins showing up like that in those conditions (to be fair, I don't know that I saw him play in that kind of a situation). If he had, last night's game wouldn't have received the reactions it did. 

[More Cowbell]

7 hours ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Trevor Lawrence is going first overall. Book it.

 He has nothing left to prove. 

From what I saw yesterday,  that is fine with me.

[56mehl56]

2 hours ago, JTJet said:

Best D out of a bunch of sh*tty ones doesnt make them THE best D. 

Clemson D is ranked 15th overall and 19th in scoring D so yeah I guess Fields didn't play those other top 15 ranked defenses last night .

[GREENBEAN]

 

 

8 hours ago, JTJet said:

I simply put the numbers up and they tell a story that some of you dont want to hear. 

Fields probably is better than Haskins but I've seen both play, BOTH were great in college. 

But it is undeniable that Haskins had more success passing the ball than Fields, a LOT more success, not just a wee bit. 

Again, same coaching staff, same talent around them, same level of competition and Haskins obliterated Fields in the passing department. Better completion percentage, more yards, more TDs, and the same Average passing yards. 

Think about this, again comparable sophmore years with a full 13 games plus a bowl game... 

-Haskins had 5 performances just like what Fields showed last night, by all of your standards, you would have drafted Haskins in a heartbeat. 

-Haskins also never once threw for under 227 yards in a game, while Fields had 9 games under 227 yards! (3/4 of his season!) 

This is very very interesting.  I have just begun to really dig into these guys outside of just watching a few games and recaps etc. but I'm really curious about this particular compatrison.  So what is it with Haskins that the WFT just up and cut him under 2 years into his rookie deal?  Is his work ethic really that bad? 

[JTJet]

58 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

This is very very interesting.  I have just begun to really dig into these guys outside of just watching a few games and recaps etc. but I'm really curious about this particular compatrison.  So what is it with Haskins that the WFT just up and cut him under 2 years into his rookie deal?  Is his work ethic really that bad? 

I would say it's a combination of multiple things, work ethic, on field production, optics of Covid season, etc etc. 

Their sophomore years are basically all you can compare for a direct 1 to 1. 13 games + Bowl game. Some people have a short memory span but all this stuff was said about Haskins too. 

The same people that get on their knees for Fields talking about last nights game dont like to hear that Haskins had those types of games on the regular, he had 5 games with 5 or more TDs and averaged like 375 yards a game his sophomore year. Other than last night, Fields has had exactly 1 of them...in his entire college career. 

Also Fields had 6 games throwing for UNDER 200 yards, we are talking Darnold esque 170-185 yard games. Haskins never once threw under 227. 

Then will come the "but Haskins had McLaurin" excuses, all while ignoring that Fields has Olave. 

It's just people still coping with the post Trev Lawrence let down and finding ways to justify Fields in their minds to keep themselves from losing it. 

[GREENBEAN]

1 hour ago, JTJet said:

I would say it's a combination of multiple things, work ethic, on field production, optics of Covid season, etc etc. 

Their sophomore years are basically all you can compare for a direct 1 to 1. 13 games + Bowl game. Some people have a short memory span but all this stuff was said about Haskins too. 

The same people that get on their knees for Fields talking about last nights game dont like to hear that Haskins had those types of games on the regular, he had 5 games with 5 or more TDs and averaged like 375 yards a game his sophomore year. Other than last night, Fields has had exactly 1 of them...in his entire college career. 

Also Fields had 6 games throwing for UNDER 200 yards, we are talking Darnold esque 170-185 yard games. Haskins never once threw under 227. 

Then will come the "but Haskins had McLaurin" excuses, all while ignoring that Fields has Olave. 

It's just people still coping with the post Trev Lawrence let down and finding ways to justify Fields in their minds to keep themselves from losing it. 

Right. Then there's the herd mentality thing which I will admit I slide into sometimes as well.  

I think the magnitude of the scenario surrounding last nights game has a lot to do with why it got everyone so excited. Fields was supposed to be pedestrian after his last two performances. You add that to the hubbub of TLaw vs Fields  for the #1 pick and the spotlight being as hot as it was last night, and this is what happens. The truth is that Fields rose to the occasion like a champ and that adds character to the physical piece. 

But I think Haskins never had the same type of him vs the other guy for the #1 overall pick thing and that may have something to do with it. 

Either way you're raising some interesting points. I can't wait to continue the deep dive over the next few months leading up to the combine.  The best thing that can happen is the Jags fall in love with Fields imo. 

Question. Would you pass on Fields at #2? 

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

19 hours ago, ToonforPrez said:

I'm curious what is this statement based on? Is this because he is an OU player and they don't pan out or because you had no actual thought on it.  

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck , ...

[Dunnie]

Kid played himself into the #1 overall conversation for sure ... anyone arguing that is blind.

It comes down to your preference in style of QB play. I personally want the purest passer ... but id be super happy with Trevor or Fields too.

[ToonforPrez]

57 minutes ago, SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN said:

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck , ...

Still doesn't answer my question Sir. I get it we see a player from college or a particular college who's QB's do not necessarily pan out and say there is no way this one is good either I get it.  My issue or problem I have and always will have is the kid hasn't played one game in the Pro's to been even associated with Dwayne the Stip-club Haskins. I feel he is a more athletic player then Haskins you can agree or disagree but at least I provided an answer not Haskins=Doesn't wear a mask in a brothel.   

[Larz]

Vince young is going to revolutionize how the QB position is played 

 

Lawrence is going #1

 

[JTJet]

9 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

Right. Then there's the herd mentality thing which I will admit I slide into sometimes as well.  

I think the magnitude of the scenario surrounding last nights game has a lot to do with why it got everyone so excited. Fields was supposed to be pedestrian after his last two performances. You add that to the hubbub of TLaw vs Fields  for the #1 pick and the spotlight being as hot as it was last night, and this is what happens. The truth is that Fields rose to the occasion like a champ and that adds character to the physical piece. 

But I think Haskins never had the same type of him vs the other guy for the #1 overall pick thing and that may have something to do with it. 

Either way you're raising some interesting points. I can't wait to continue the deep dive over the next few months leading up to the combine.  The best thing that can happen is the Jags fall in love with Fields imo. 

Question. Would you pass on Fields at #2? 

Personally? Yes. My desired outcome even when we were in the TLaw running was...

1- Stick with Sam, build the team to fit him.

2- Draft Lawrence if cards fell right.

3- Draft Wilson or Sewell

4- Trade back for haul, draft WR/OLine. 

5- Draft Fields, even after the Clemson game. 

I hesitantly admit that I'm still a Darnold supporter, but more so than that, I want to build a good supporting cast, then insert a new QB. I fully believe that no matter who we toss in there, their play is going to be a few notches below their potential until the cast is built up a little bit better. 

We are still missing a true RB1, WR1, TE1, and half our future starting O Line. 

That's a hurdle for anyone up to and including Trevor Lawrence. 

[JTJet]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

Vince young is going to revolutionize how the QB position is played 

 

Lawrence is going #1

2006 Rose Bowl

Legit still one of the best football games I've ever seen. 

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

9 hours ago, ToonforPrez said:

Still doesn't answer my question Sir. I get it we see a player from college or a particular college who's QB's do not necessarily pan out and say there is no way this one is good either I get it.  My issue or problem I have and always will have is the kid hasn't played one game in the Pro's to been even associated with Dwayne the Stip-club Haskins. I feel he is a more athletic player then Haskins you can agree or disagree but at least I provided an answer not Haskins=Doesn't wear a mask in a brothel.   

[ToonforPrez]

30 minutes ago, SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN said:

Mature glad i know who to avoid in the coming months before the draft.