Polar Opposites in Organization philosophy

[Ron Rico]

2 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

Except, as we already addressed.. there isn't a difference. You made this up in your own mind because you'd rather blame Jets fans.

No I didn't, you just want it to be that.

I'm not even gaslighting you, and you are unconsciously blasting lava. Where it's coming from you have to figure that out. 

[Rangers9]

When routinely 6th round draft picks at QB are better in the NFL over top draft picks why would you want to tank a season for one of them. 

[Dcat]

2 minutes ago, Coquito said:

Wow.

And just like that I'm as sh*tty a poster as defensewinschampionships. 

I think the anger you express towards me is something you need to look inside yourself, because it's projection.

I'm a Jungian Analyst and I just hit the promised land of neurosis. 

LOL.  Bad attempt at a kick save there.  Try again?

[jeremy2020]

4 minutes ago, Coquito said:

Wow.

And just like that I'm as sh*tty a poster as defensewinschampionships. 

I think the anger you express towards me is something you need to look inside yourself, because it's projection.

I'm a Jungian Analyst and I just hit the promised land of neurosis. 

As a jungian analyst, what does making up a 'steeler fan friend' to blast a fanbase say about a person? 

Also, if you're an analyst, I'd be worried for anyone employing your services as you didn't even spend 30 seconds researching general steeler fan opinions and took one (supposed) anecdotal account. 

Also, the juvenile attempt to bring out your job as an 'expert' and then level claims of "what does this say about you" aka "I'm rubber and you're glue" is questionable for a 'professional analyst' (and that's being kind). 

[Biggs]

7 minutes ago, football guy said:

The Jets as an organization that has not learned how to manage the noise. The second something happens here, our media amplifies it, our fans lose it, and our organization does little to block it out which lets it polarize the locker room, and we get off track organizationally. Being in New York certainly puts a spotlight on us but is no excuse because the Giants have effectively managed it for decades. Since they won their last Super Bowl they have been no better than we have, but “chaos” is often associated with us as opposed to them. You look at their QB situation. Everyone was out on Daniel Jones from the media to the fans to even some of his teammates. The organization stood by him and got rid of anyone who questioned their process and commit. They did the same with Eli Manning. It’s not to say either player is an elite top 5 QB but it’s that ability to be steadfast is an underrated organizational characteristic that most successful organizations have. You mentioned Kenny Pickett- how would we have handled him after starting his career with 2 TDs and 8 INTs in his first 5 games? Then you mentioned Miami/Tua- they’re like us… they don’t manage the noise, they let it impact their decision-making (owner trying to recruit everyone but Tua the latest example), and it has often blown up in their faces. They lucked into Mike McDaniel but who knows how long that even lasts before they turn on him…

The difference is the ownership can't turn off the noise.  The Giants haven't committed to Jones and Miami's owner hasn't committed to Tua.

The difference is they both hired offensive minded HC to evaluate them and give their QB's the best chance to succeed.  

We drafted Sanchez with Rex and Wilson with Saleh.   Tua was drafted and was terrible with Brian Flores a Defensive HC working with him.  

If either the Giants or the Dolphins decide to go in another direction the Head coach will be part of the process and can probably make a more informed decision.  

[Ron Rico]

4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I

Edit:  Oh and I do agree with the the fact that offenses are too damn smart for their own good.   When you combine empty sets and fancy blocking schemes you get a lot of free kill shots on QBs.

I absolutely hate fancy blocking schemes on pass plays, as often as they work they give free runs to the QB as often.

Well thank you for finding some common ground.

[Ron Rico]

1 minute ago, jeremy2020 said:

As a jungian analyst, what does making up a 'steeler fan friend' say about a person? 

I invented him? LOL

You need to stop digging. 

[Ron Rico]

3 minutes ago, Dcat said:

LOL.  Bad attempt at a kick save there.  Try again?

To say I struck a nerve here, would be the understatement of the century.

Just like that, you turned on me. Fascinating.

[Ron Rico]

5 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

When routinely 6th round draft picks at QB are better in the NFL over top draft picks why would you want to tank a season for one of them. 

Or whine about it 3 seasons later.

[Maynard13]

49 minutes ago, Coquito said:

Ran into a friend of mine who's a Steelers fan and talked a little football. Key points:

"Tanking the season". He said that this is a losers mentality. In fact, the Steelers priority is have a winning season. Tomlinson has never had a losing season as the Steelers HC. Seriously, that is where the organization, top to bottom, is at. They are not talking about firing the coach, the GM, replacing the QB, or intentionally losing games for a draft pick. Then we talked about Pickett, and he told me Pickett has had two concussions this year. I did not know that. I know about Tua, but I didn't know about Pickett.

This has to stop. All of these young QB's already compromised by concussions. The NFL cannot continue like this. Get rid of 4 and 5 WR sets. Spread offenses work with unique (rare) QB's. It's getting other QB's killed coming out of college. Bring back the Fullback position. Return to two back formations. Keep a bodyguard back there to pick up the blitz. 

Anyway it was just amazing how different two 7-8 teams thinks, and this is a team the Jets actually beat. I was actually pretty embarrassed to think about it.

Interesting viewpoint and good critical analysis but I just don't see it happening. Points sell tickets. Period. Soon if you even incidentally touch a WR coming off the line it will be holding and PI if its a glancing touch on a pass route.  But baseball did put restrictions on how infielders can position themselves and they made some other changes as well.  So it's not out of the question stricter rules will be implemented to keep QB's safe. And you are correct, something drastic has to be done.  It has gotten better over the years. Back in the 60's to the 90's, it was destroy destroy destroy the QB.  Looking back at those old NFL tapes you could see nearly every QB that played in that era suffered serious injuries, concussions etc.  When does it stop? When a marquee QB goes down due to an illegal hit? Maybe. Except, of course, if the QB is on the NY Jets. The shot Mike White took by Milano was totally ruffing the passer. In fact he should have been ejected for lifting him up and driving him into the ground.  They need to stop playing favorites with some of these teams.  

[Ron Rico]

7 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

As a jungian analyst, what does making up a 'steeler fan friend' to blast a fanbase say about a person? 

Also, if you're an analyst, I'd be worried for anyone employing your services as you didn't even spend 30 seconds researching general steeler fan opinions and took one (supposed) anecdotal account. 

Also, the juvenile attempt to bring out your job as an 'expert' and then level claims of "what does this say about you" aka "I'm rubber and you're glue" is questionable for a 'professional analyst' (and that's being kind). 

You've made this very personal, not me. I was speaking in generalities. Why you took it personally when I didn't have you specifically in mind or even on my radar, and then insist on character assassinating me over and over again is demonstrably pathological. 

I really don't care what you do with that information as it has become clear to me that you are not here to communicate. I consider that a loss, because I did enjoy your posts. 

 

[Matt39]

23 minutes ago, football guy said:

The Jets as an organization that has not learned how to manage the noise. The second something happens here, our media amplifies it, our fans lose it, and our organization does little to block it out which lets it polarize the locker room, and we get off track organizationally. Being in New York certainly puts a spotlight on us but is no excuse because the Giants have effectively managed it for decades. Since they won their last Super Bowl they have been no better than we have, but “chaos” is often associated with us as opposed to them. You look at their QB situation. Everyone was out on Daniel Jones from the media to the fans to even some of his teammates. The organization stood by him and got rid of anyone who questioned their process and commit. They did the same with Eli Manning. It’s not to say either player is an elite top 5 QB but it’s that ability to be steadfast is an underrated organizational characteristic that most successful organizations have. You mentioned Kenny Pickett- how would we have handled him after starting his career with 2 TDs and 8 INTs in his first 5 games? Then you mentioned Miami/Tua- they’re like us… they don’t manage the noise, they let it impact their decision-making (owner trying to recruit everyone but Tua the latest example), and it has often blown up in their faces. They lucked into Mike McDaniel but who knows how long that even lasts before they turn on him…

The Giants were also out of Jones when they didn’t pick up his 5th year.

[jeremy2020]

Just now, Coquito said:

You've made this very personal, not me. I was speaking in generalities. Why you took it personally when I didn't have you specifically in mind or even on my radar, and then insist on character assassinating me over and over again is demonstrably pathological. 

I really don't care what you do with that information as it has become clear to me that you are not here to communicate. I consider that a loss, because I did enjoy your posts. 

Blasting a fanbase and making up conspiracy theories, making up false information isn't crazy at all. You're right. 

[Maynard13]

50 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I mean, when you’re playing close to .500 ball, it’s easy to be anti-tanking.  A couple draft slots when you’re gonna be picking in the teens regardless isn’t a hard position to take.  

Mot so much when you’re, say, 2-13.  The Steelers haven’t been THAT level of bad since 1969.  We were that bad just 2 years ago.  

Ahem Ahem We sucked last year too. Ginkgo Biloba at a store near you!

[Rangers9]

10 minutes ago, Coquito said:

Or whine about it 3 seasons later.

And then after tanking a season to get one of them you start them immediately and are willing to give up more losing seasons so they can develop. That’s a lot of losses and losing years. Not worth it no tanking and no starting rookie QBs not ready to play in NFL. If you do draft a QB high you don’t start them until ready. “You play to win the game.”

[Ron Rico]

1 minute ago, jeremy2020 said:

Blasting a fanbase and making up conspiracy theories, making up false information isn't crazy at all. You're right. 

You're right. There's absolutely no evidence all over page one of this forum of what I was "making up". 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Coquito said:

Ran into a friend of mine who's a Steelers fan and talked a little football. Key points:

"Tanking the season". He said that this is a losers mentality. In fact, the Steelers priority is have a winning season. Tomlinson has never had a losing season as the Steelers HC. Seriously, that is where the organization, top to bottom, is at. They are not talking about firing the coach, the GM, replacing the QB, or intentionally losing games for a draft pick. Then we talked about Pickett, and he told me Pickett has had two concussions this year. I did not know that. I know about Tua, but I didn't know about Pickett.

This has to stop. All of these young QB's already compromised by concussions. The NFL cannot continue like this. Get rid of 4 and 5 WR sets. Spread offenses work with unique (rare) QB's. It's getting other QB's killed coming out of college. Bring back the Fullback position. Return to two back formations. Keep a bodyguard back there to pick up the blitz. 

Anyway it was just amazing how different two 7-8 teams thinks, and this is a team the Jets actually beat. I was actually pretty embarrassed to think about it.

What’s shocking, the only ones who are willing to tank a season are fans.  Teams, coaches and players don’t tank.  

[jeremy2020]

1 minute ago, Coquito said:

You're right. There's absolutely no evidence all over page one of this forum of what I was "making up". 

You said that the Steeler fanbase was 'different'. So, yes there's no evidence of it. Then made up conspiracies that anything negative is the work of agent provocateurs.

[Dcat]

11 minutes ago, Coquito said:

To say I struck a nerve here, would be the understatement of the century.

Just like that, you turned on me. Fascinating.

tired of Jets fans attacking other Jets fans here.  Will react the same when I see it again. 

[Ron Rico]

1 minute ago, Rangers9 said:

And then after tanking a season to get one of them you start them immediately and are willing to give up more losing seasons so they can develop. That’s a lot of losses and losing years. Not worth it no tanking and no starting rookie QBs not ready to play in NFL. If you do draft a QB high you don’t start them until ready. 

I learned a very valuable lesson by putting myself out there with the OP. I'm confident that before this thread runs it's course, I will have learned alot more. 

[32EBoozer]

50 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

The sad thing is if the Fins beat the Pats, the rumor is is they plan on playing TUA in the playoffs or against the Jets. I can’t believe they would do that,

For Tua’s sake I hope not!

[Ron Rico]

4 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

Ahem Ahem We sucked last year too. Ginkgo Biloba at a store near you!

I'm going to have to try some of that Ginkgo Biloba.

[Jet Nut]

55 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

The sad thing is if the Fins beat the Pats, the rumor is is they plan on playing TUA in the playoffs or against the Jets. I can’t believe they would do that, as they are already saying he is feeling better everyday and he hasn’t been ruled out for the season. Don’t know how that plays out with the NFLPA and the NFL but it’s not a definite. 

What rumor?  
Tuas not plying until he’s able to play.  The NFL will come down hard on the fish if they push him when he’s not ready to play

[Ron Rico]

1 minute ago, Dcat said:

tired of Jets fans attacking other Jets fans here.  Will react the same when I see it again. 

You don't see the irony in the fact that I didn't call anyone out specifically, yet here you are, over and over, exclusively attacking me. 

[FTL Jet Fan]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

What rumor?  Lol

If they make the playoffs or beat the Pats he is playing. It should make its way up to Boca. 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I mean, when you’re playing close to .500 ball, it’s easy to be anti-tanking.  A couple draft slots when you’re gonna be picking in the teens regardless isn’t a hard position to take.  

Mot so much when you’re, say, 2-13.  The Steelers haven’t been THAT level of bad since 1969.  We were that bad just 2 years ago.  

They’ve also had a franchise qb for a while. Pretty big difference and everything becomes easier from a team building perspective so they can spare me the anti tanking talk. If pickett is not the guy, let’s see how cool the experience is if they are 8-8 every year. 

 

[Ron Rico]

4 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

You said that the Steeler fanbase was 'different'. So, yes there's no evidence of it. 

I see. So the premise of your dispute is that there is a Steelers forum full of "fans" doing the same and saying the same or similar things as we see on this board.

Here's where my assessment is different that yours:

Both you and I know who the legitimate posters are on this forum because we frequent it enough to know that. You arbitrarily picked a Steelers forum that you skimmed over and concluded that it was identical. And based on that alone you character assassinated me. Not a good look.

[JonMcgraw38]

1 hour ago, Coquito said:

Ran into a friend of mine who's a Steelers fan and talked a little football. Key points:

"Tanking the season". He said that this is a losers mentality. In fact, the Steelers priority is have a winning season. Tomlinson has never had a losing season as the Steelers HC. Seriously, that is where the organization, top to bottom, is at. They are not talking about firing the coach, the GM, replacing the QB, or intentionally losing games for a draft pick. Then we talked about Pickett, and he told me Pickett has had two concussions this year. I did not know that. I know about Tua, but I didn't know about Pickett.

This has to stop. All of these young QB's already compromised by concussions. The NFL cannot continue like this. Get rid of 4 and 5 WR sets. Spread offenses work with unique (rare) QB's. It's getting other QB's killed coming out of college. Bring back the Fullback position. Return to two back formations. Keep a bodyguard back there to pick up the blitz. 

Anyway it was just amazing how different two 7-8 teams thinks, and this is a team the Jets actually beat. I was actually pretty embarrassed to think about it.

You do realize that the fans aren’t part of the organization right? I am pretty only batsh*t crazy owners like Irsay, Snyder, and Ross tank. Perhaps next year things change when Caleb Williams enters the draft as the highest rated QB prospect in some time. 

Steelers fans can go F themselves. They wouldn’t be any different than Jets fans if they went through a 12 year run like we have. See how long their “organization” would tolerate boobs like Bowles, Gase, and Saleh. 

[Ron Rico]

Just now, JonMcgraw38 said:

They wouldn’t be any different than Jets fans if they went through a 12 year run like we have. 

Which begs the question... why don't they?

[jeremy2020]

2 minutes ago, Coquito said:

I see. So the premise of your dispute is that there is a Steelers forum full of "fans" doing the same and saying the same or similar things as we see on this board.

Here's where my assessment is different that yours:

Both you and I know who the legitimate posters are on this forum because we frequent it enough to know that. You arbitrarily picked a Steelers forum that you skimmed over and concluded that it was identical. And based on that alone you character assassinated me. Not a good look.

You took one anecdotal source of data. I used two forums. Provide one bit of actual data that your conspiracy is true. Go look at the steeler forums yourself. 

You also brought in the ole standard "I'm a professional, just believe me". Next you're gonna tell us you own a BMW. 

[Jet Nut]

6 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

If they make the playoffs or beat the Pats he is playing. It should make its way up to Boca. 

No one actually knows that if they make it to the playoffs they’re going against doctors diagnosis and playing him at risk is all I’m saying.  It’s not rumor it’s guessing ?

[Maynard13]

17 minutes ago, Coquito said:

I'm going to have to try some of that Ginkgo Biloba.

Amazing herb. Good for memory and other things but I forget.   https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/263105#benefits

Also Ashgawanda amazing stress relief herb amazing! https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-953/ashwagandha#:~:text=Ashwagandha contains chemicals that might,resist physical and mental stress.

Every Jets fan should be mandated to take this.

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, JonMcgraw38 said:

You do realize that the fans aren’t part of the organization right? I am pretty only batsh*t crazy owners like Irsay, Snyder, and Ross tank. Perhaps next year things change when Caleb Williams enters the draft as the highest rated QB prospect in some time. 

Steelers fans can go F themselves. They wouldn’t be any different than Jets fans if they went through a 12 year run like we have. See how long their “organization” would tolerate boobs like Bowles, Gase, and Saleh. 

Ross tried to tank and his HC wouldn’t play along.  Snyder hasn’t tanked.  Who knows what it say will do

[Ron Rico]

Just now, jeremy2020 said:

You took one anecdotal source of data. I used two forums. Provide one bit of actual data that your conspiracy is true. Go look at the steeler forums yourself. 

You also brought in the ole standard "I'm a professional, just believe me". Next you're gonna tell us you own a BMW. 

LOL

This is so chock full of logical fallacies that I can't continue this and still maintain my dignity and integrity. At least we can all agree that Eagles fans are the nicest people and are warm and welcoming to visiting teams fans. 

[Lith]

1 hour ago, derp said:

I don't think the Jets actively tank seasons, but when the team's eliminated from playoff contention in early November there's not much else to discuss. Could have missed it but I don't recall any tanking discussion for this year's 7-8 squad. And if the Steelers haven't had a losing season under Tomlin, then they're certainly not eliminated from playoff contention early in the season.

Yup.  If we actively tanked a season, we would not be winning games in December in past seasons that cost us draft position.  We have had bad teams that lost a lot of games, but I don't think we tanked.