Polar Opposites in Organization philosophy

[Ron Rico]

Ran into a friend of mine who's a Steelers fan and talked a little football. Key points:

"Tanking the season". He said that this is a losers mentality. In fact, the Steelers priority is have a winning season. Tomlinson has never had a losing season as the Steelers HC. Seriously, that is where the organization, top to bottom, is at. They are not talking about firing the coach, the GM, replacing the QB, or intentionally losing games for a draft pick. Then we talked about Pickett, and he told me Pickett has had two concussions this year. I did not know that. I know about Tua, but I didn't know about Pickett.

This has to stop. All of these young QB's already compromised by concussions. The NFL cannot continue like this. Get rid of 4 and 5 WR sets. Spread offenses work with unique (rare) QB's. It's getting other QB's killed coming out of college. Bring back the Fullback position. Return to two back formations. Keep a bodyguard back there to pick up the blitz. 

Anyway it was just amazing how different two 7-8 teams thinks, and this is a team the Jets actually beat. I was actually pretty embarrassed to think about it.

[derp]

I don't think the Jets actively tank seasons, but when the team's eliminated from playoff contention in early November there's not much else to discuss. Could have missed it but I don't recall any tanking discussion for this year's 7-8 squad. And if the Steelers haven't had a losing season under Tomlin, then they're certainly not eliminated from playoff contention early in the season.

[Jetsfan80]

I mean, when you’re playing close to .500 ball, it’s easy to be anti-tanking.  A couple draft slots when you’re gonna be picking in the teens regardless isn’t a hard position to take.  

Mot so much when you’re, say, 2-13.  The Steelers haven’t been THAT level of bad since 1969.  We were that bad just 2 years ago.  

[Barry McCockinner]

15 minutes ago, Coquito said:

Ran into a friend of mine who's a Steelers fan and talked a little football. Key points:

"Tanking the season". He said that this is a losers mentality. In fact, the Steelers priority is have a winning season. Tomlinson has never had a losing season as the Steelers HC. Seriously, that is where the organization, top to bottom, is at. They are not talking about firing the coach, the GM, replacing the QB, or intentionally losing games for a draft pick. Then we talked about Pickett, and he told me Pickett has had two concussions this year. I did not know that. I know about Tua, but I didn't know about Pickett.

This has to stop. All of these young QB's already compromised by concussions. The NFL cannot continue like this. Get rid of 4 and 5 WR sets. Spread offenses work with unique (rare) QB's. It's getting other QB's killed coming out of college. Bring back the Fullback position. Return to two back formations. Keep a bodyguard back there to pick up the blitz. 

Anyway it was just amazing how different two 7-8 teams thinks, and this is a team the Jets actually beat. I was actually pretty embarrassed to think about it.

You realize it's fans talking about these things and not the organization, right? What is this?

[Rhg1084]

Well if we tanked properly we’d have Trevor Lawrence right now 

[FTL Jet Fan]

12 minutes ago, Coquito said:

Ran into a friend of mine who's a Steelers fan and talked a little football. Key points:

"Tanking the season". He said that this is a losers mentality. In fact, the Steelers priority is have a winning season. Tomlinson has never had a losing season as the Steelers HC. Seriously, that is where the organization, top to bottom, is at. They are not talking about firing the coach, the GM, replacing the QB, or intentionally losing games for a draft pick. Then we talked about Pickett, and he told me Pickett has had two concussions this year. I did not know that. I know about Tua, but I didn't know about Pickett.

This has to stop. All of these young QB's already compromised by concussions. The NFL cannot continue like this. Get rid of 4 and 5 WR sets. Spread offenses work with unique (rare) QB's. It's getting other QB's killed coming out of college. Bring back the Fullback position. Return to two back formations. Keep a bodyguard back there to pick up the blitz. 

Anyway it was just amazing how different two 7-8 teams thinks, and this is a team the Jets actually beat. I was actually pretty embarrassed to think about it.

The sad thing is if the Fins beat the Pats, the rumor is is they plan on playing TUA in the playoffs or against the Jets. I can’t believe they would do that, as they are already saying he is feeling better everyday and he hasn’t been ruled out for the season. Don’t know how that plays out with the NFLPA and the NFL but it’s not a definite. 

[Asymmetrical]

Hard to shamelessly tank in the NFL. Part of the reason is seasons are shorter - it's not like baseball or basketball where a losing season sort of becomes background noise. No one notices when the Wizards lose by 18 on a Wednesday in January but the Commanders losing 14 games becomes a national story. 

[Ron Rico]

4 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

You realize it's fans talking about these things and not the organization, right? What is this?

No, I didn't get that vibe at all. I think fans generally reflect the organization itself. Jets are dysfunctional and schizophrenic, hence the "toxic" fan base.

[Larz]

I think the prestige of the uniform has a lot to do with it. You get drafted by the Steelers it’s a dream come true and you work your ass off. Tomlinson is also very good.  
They are looking like they will be stuck in the hamster wheel of mediocrity without a top 7 pick for a QB. 
concussions are being reported more now. Kenny O’Brien probably had 12

[Ron Rico]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I mean, when you’re playing close to .500 ball, it’s easy to be anti-tanking.  A couple draft slots when you’re gonna be picking in the teens regardless isn’t a hard position to take.  

Mot so much when you’re, say, 2-13.  The Steelers haven’t been THAT level of bad since 1969.  We were that bad just 2 years ago.  

Back when we played them, they were potentially a 3 or 4 win team. They could have easily tanked this season. But the organization, top to bottom (owner to fans) would rather have a HC who never lost a season than blow that record for a draft pick. 

That's a sea change in culture and attitude. 

[kevinc855]

Steeler Fans = "Give me a winning season. Stop. Period"

Jet Fans = "Yea I know we went 7-10 BUT all those Pepsi Sugar Rookie of the Weeks Bro!!" 

That explains alot....

[Irish Jet]

28 minutes ago, Coquito said:

Ran into a friend of mine who's a Steelers fan and talked a little football. Key points:

"Tanking the season". He said that this is a losers mentality. In fact, the Steelers priority is have a winning season. Tomlinson has never had a losing season as the Steelers HC. Seriously, that is where the organization, top to bottom, is at. They are not talking about firing the coach, the GM, replacing the QB, or intentionally losing games for a draft pick. Then we talked about Pickett, and he told me Pickett has had two concussions this year. I did not know that. I know about Tua, but I didn't know about Pickett.

This has to stop. All of these young QB's already compromised by concussions. The NFL cannot continue like this. Get rid of 4 and 5 WR sets. Spread offenses work with unique (rare) QB's. It's getting other QB's killed coming out of college. Bring back the Fullback position. Return to two back formations. Keep a bodyguard back there to pick up the blitz. 

Anyway it was just amazing how different two 7-8 teams thinks, and this is a team the Jets actually beat. I was actually pretty embarrassed to think about it.

If you encourage them to change it they'll just make it illegal to hit the QB at all. 

[Ron Rico]

13 minutes ago, derp said:

 Could have missed it but I don't recall any tanking discussion for this year's 7-8 squad. 

Agree, but we are never going to stop hearing about "what if" and Trevor Lawrence. That was almost 3 seasons ago. It's a losers mindset. 

[Ron Rico]

1 minute ago, Irish Jet said:

If you encourage them to change it they'll just make it illegal to hit the QB at all. 

That would make the game unwatchable, and it's almost arena football now.

[Green Ghost]

2 minutes ago, Coquito said:

Agree, but we are never going to stop hearing about "what if" and Trevor Lawrence. That was almost 3 seasons ago. It's a losers mindset. 

Either that, or it’s a lesson in how to screw up a franchise for another generation. Again.

(See Marino, Dan.)

[Integrity28]

I don’t even understand the point of this thread. Tanking and concussions? 

[Ron Rico]

1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

I don’t even understand the point of this thread. Tanking and concussions? 

I can start another Zach Wilson thread, if you like?

[JiFtheOracle]

38 minutes ago, Coquito said:

Ran into a friend of mine who's a Steelers fan and talked a little football. Key points:

"Tanking the season". He said that this is a losers mentality. In fact, the Steelers priority is have a winning season. Tomlinson has never had a losing season as the Steelers HC. Seriously, that is where the organization, top to bottom, is at. They are not talking about firing the coach, the GM, replacing the QB, or intentionally losing games for a draft pick. Then we talked about Pickett, and he told me Pickett has had two concussions this year. I did not know that. I know about Tua, but I didn't know about Pickett.

This has to stop. All of these young QB's already compromised by concussions. The NFL cannot continue like this. Get rid of 4 and 5 WR sets. Spread offenses work with unique (rare) QB's. It's getting other QB's killed coming out of college. Bring back the Fullback position. Return to two back formations. Keep a bodyguard back there to pick up the blitz. 

Anyway it was just amazing how different two 7-8 teams thinks, and this is a team the Jets actually beat. I was actually pretty embarrassed to think about it.

Nobody is Jax is upset about tanking the season for Lawrence.  They in fact, thank the Jets.

[jeremy2020]

38 minutes ago, Coquito said:

Ran into a friend of mine who's a Steelers fan and talked a little football. Key points:

"Tanking the season". He said that this is a losers mentality. In fact, the Steelers priority is have a winning season. Tomlinson has never had a losing season as the Steelers HC. Seriously, that is where the organization, top to bottom, is at. They are not talking about firing the coach, the GM, replacing the QB, or intentionally losing games for a draft pick. Then we talked about Pickett, and he told me Pickett has had two concussions this year. I did not know that. I know about Tua, but I didn't know about Pickett.

This has to stop. All of these young QB's already compromised by concussions. The NFL cannot continue like this. Get rid of 4 and 5 WR sets. Spread offenses work with unique (rare) QB's. It's getting other QB's killed coming out of college. Bring back the Fullback position. Return to two back formations. Keep a bodyguard back there to pick up the blitz. 

Anyway it was just amazing how different two 7-8 teams thinks, and this is a team the Jets actually beat. I was actually pretty embarrassed to think about it.

You don't even have to go past the first page of the steeler forums to find threads about firing people. There's literally a thread of "Why did we pass on Malik Willis?" There's plenty who want to drop Pickett on their boards. 

You've made a critical error in assuming that 1 fan equals a fanbase and that live discourse is prone to the same histrionics that a anonymous internet forum is.. 

They even have threads like this one admonishing fans for calling for Tomlin to be fired. 

[Ron Rico]

3 minutes ago, JiFields said:

Nobody is Jax is upset about tanking the season for Lawrence.  They in fact, thank the Jets.

I get it, but it's water under the bridge, now. Why pine about it?

[Green Ghost]

12 minutes ago, Coquito said:

No, I didn't get that vibe at all. I think fans generally reflect the organization itself. Jets are dysfunctional and schizophrenic, hence the "toxic" fan base.

It is what it is. As fans we love to speculate without having the information a team does. ( just look at the thread where guys are discussing Breece Hall today).

I agree it’s not a good look, and it was pretty sketchy how the Fish have handled this stuff recently, but  you’d have to assume Tua has seen other doctors beside the ones Miami has, and I’d like to think even the team doctors are proceeding with his best interests in mind.

Then again, wtf do I know? Perhaps @VJphillyfan can lend his expertise here?

[JiFtheOracle]

1 minute ago, Coquito said:

I get it, but it's water under the bridge, now. Why pine about it?

I'm not whining about missing out on T. Law, they didnt have a choice.  Fields?  Very whiny about it.

[football guy]

The Jets as an organization that has not learned how to manage the noise. The second something happens here, our media amplifies it, our fans lose it, and our organization does little to block it out which lets it polarize the locker room, and we get off track organizationally. Being in New York certainly puts a spotlight on us but is no excuse because the Giants have effectively managed it for decades. Since they won their last Super Bowl they have been no better than we have, but “chaos” is often associated with us as opposed to them. You look at their QB situation. Everyone was out on Daniel Jones from the media to the fans to even some of his teammates. The organization stood by him and got rid of anyone who questioned their process and commit. They did the same with Eli Manning. It’s not to say either player is an elite top 5 QB but it’s that ability to be steadfast is an underrated organizational characteristic that most successful organizations have. You mentioned Kenny Pickett- how would we have handled him after starting his career with 2 TDs and 8 INTs in his first 5 games? Then you mentioned Miami/Tua- they’re like us… they don’t manage the noise, they let it impact their decision-making (owner trying to recruit everyone but Tua the latest example), and it has often blown up in their faces. They lucked into Mike McDaniel but who knows how long that even lasts before they turn on him…

[Ron Rico]

3 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

You don't even have to go past the first page of the steeler forums to find threads about firing people. There's literally a thread of "Why did we pass on Malik Willis?" There's plenty who want to drop Pickett on their boards. 

You've made a critical error in assuming that 1 fan equals a fanbase and that live discourse is prone to the same histrionics that a anonymous internet forum is.. 

They even have threads like this one admonishing fans for calling for Tomlin to be fired. 

Fair enough. I guess the one Steelers fan I talked to was the outlier.

But how many anonymous "fans" on the internet are trolls or agent provocateurs? Half the Zach Wilson threads started in this forum are trolls just gaslighting the rest of us. We get gaslighted and we respond accordingly. 

How much of this is legit? 

 

[Dcat]

20 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

You realize it's fans talking about these things and not the organization, right? What is this?

this thread is yet another whiney attack on NY Jets fans.  I guess we are not good enough fans for some or our fellow fan base.  But honestly, aren't we all tired of these threads constantly attacking Jets fans by other Jets fans?  I realize that there are a few of you who really thrive off of it.  

Happy New Year.

[undertow]

They have hired 3 HOF coaches in 50 years and won 6 SBs our claim to fame is we once had a coach with a foot fetish that got us to the AFC championship game a few times.

[Dcat]

7 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

You don't even have to go past the first page of the steeler forums to find threads about firing people. There's literally a thread of "Why did we pass on Malik Willis?" There's plenty who want to drop Pickett on their boards. 

You've made a critical error in assuming that 1 fan equals a fanbase and that live discourse is prone to the same histrionics that a anonymous internet forum is.. 

They even have threads like this one admonishing fans for calling for Tomlin to be fired. 

[jeremy2020]

5 minutes ago, Coquito said:

Fair enough. I guess the one Steelers fan I talked to was the outlier.

But how many anonymous "fans" on the internet are trolls or agent provocateurs? Half the Zach Wilson threads started in this forum are trolls just gaslighting the rest of us. We get gaslighted and we respond accordingly. 

How much of this is legit? 

That is only in your own mind. This is like voter fraud. It's miniscule, but people like to believe it's a huge issue because it makes their world view better. This is defensewinschampionships level of garbage without the 1000 word posts. At least, put in the amount of effort he did. 

Or better.. when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. 

[Dcat]

13 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I don’t even understand the point of this thread. Tanking and concussions? 

Just a moment for a Jets fan to bark at his fellow Jets fans.  

[Ron Rico]

2 minutes ago, Dcat said:

this thread is yet another whiney attack on NY Jets fans.  I guess we are not good enough fans for some or our fellow fan base.  But honestly, aren't we all tired of these threads constantly attacking Jets fans by other Jets fans?  I realize that there are a few of you who really thrive off of it.  

Happy New Year.

Forgive me for not clarifying my point better, but I most certainly wasn't "attacking" Jets fans. I know that we have no control over the outcome of any event that occurs concerning this team. 

But there is a discernable difference in "culture" for want of a better word. 

The root of culture is cult, derived from cultivation and agriculture.

Culture is passed down from generation to generation, like a bowl of water where not a drop is spilled. 

[jeremy2020]

1 minute ago, Coquito said:

Forgive me for not clarifying my point better, but I most certainly wasn't "attacking" Jets fans. I know that we have no control over the outcome of any event that occurs concerning this team. 

But there is a discernable difference in "culture" for want of a better word. 

The root of culture is cult, derived from cultivation and agriculture.

Culture is passed down from generation to generation, like a bowl of water where not a drop is spilled. 

Except, as we already addressed.. there isn't a difference. You made this up in your own mind because you'd rather blame Jets fans.

[Beerfish]

It's easy to say oh we don't tank when you have a franchise Qb and are in contention each year.  Pittsburgh would face the same dilemma as any other team if they fell to a 5 win team, then thoughts of tanking are real.

Also the NY Jets have never tanked, that is a bs narrative.  The jets have screwed their draft position way more often with a late win than they have done anything to lose out.  Same with many other teams.  Tanking is rare in the NFL but when it is done it can have a HUGE benefit for your team.

The thing pittsburgh does that is a good philosophy over the years is they keep drafting pass rushers and WRs

Edit:  Oh and I do agree with the the fact that offenses are too damn smart for their own good.   When you combine empty sets and fancy blocking schemes you get a lot of free kill shots on QBs.

I absolutely hate fancy blocking schemes on pass plays, as often as they work they give free runs to the QB as often.

[Ron Rico]

Wow.

And just like that I'm as sh*tty a poster as defensewinschampionships. 

I think the anger you express towards me is something you need to look inside yourself, because it's projection.

I'm a Jungian Analyst and I just hit the promised land of neurosis. 

[Green Ghost]

5 minutes ago, undertow said:

They have hired 3 HOF coaches in 50 years and won 6 SBs our claim to fame is we once had a coach with a foot fetish that got us to the AFC championship game a few times.

There are a ton of Pittsburgh transplants where I live for some reason. They never talk about Noll, Cowher and Tomlin as the reason for their prolonged success, in fact most don’t think highly of Tomlin. They credit the organization itself, and it’s overall philosophy.

When Brown and Bell were stirring the pot a few years back, every one of them backed the team. They turned on those guys the minute the chirping started.

[Dcat]

3 minutes ago, Coquito said:

Forgive me for not clarifying my point better, but I most certainly wasn't "attacking" Jets fans. I know that we have no control over the outcome of any event that occurs concerning this team. 

But there is a discernable difference in "culture" for want of a better word. 

The root of culture is cult, derived from cultivation and agriculture.

Culture is passed down from generation to generation, like a bowl of water where not a drop is spilled. 

then I suggest you start looking at the Steelers message boards to see they have fans of all types just like us and the so-called "culture" in which they and their team exist that you dream of can only come years after consistent winning.   

Really, what is the whole point of this thread then?