Zach is the problem, not Penalties.

[Jetsfan80]

44 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I'd love to hear a legitimate talent evaluator's opinion of him.

@T0mShane has provided innumerable talent evaluators’ takes showing that any legitimate, honest analysis of Zach’s play results in the analyst coming away with disgust.

You just choose to willfully ignore it.

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He went from Hackenberg level inaccuracy to a hair above Nathan Peterman accuracy.  Yay!!!!

People are very dramatic.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

@T0mShane has provided innumerable talent evaluators’ takes showing that any legitimate, honest analysis of Zach’s play results in the analyst coming away with disgust.

You just choose to willfully ignore it.

I'm talking about NFL scouts, not the guys we see on TV.

[Jet_Engine1]

13 hours ago, Larz said:

What a ball fake, great poise, DIME

My 12 year old occasionally gets Algebra questions right. I mean, he tries really hard, studies, goes to tutoring 2x a week... but it's hard for him (Hes excelling in all his other classes, though. Hes like me, English, History and Science A's, D in math 😆).

Maybe I'll go to his teacher and crow about how he got those few equations solved perfectly,  with great penmanship to boot... and ignore the current 66% he's got in the class.... 

[TuscanyTile2]

@football guy Have you heard anything from within the Jets' organization about where they stand on Zach?  Do they see a QB who still has potential (and has been improving) or is he on the outs and it's only a matter of time?

[Ecuadorian Jet]

On 11/13/2023 at 9:47 PM, doitny said:

 

so we lost yesterday and Zach played ok.

Just because he was not his usual dreadful self, it doesn't mean he played ok.

He played bad because he is bad at being a pro QB. 

Am I in the twilight zone and everyone has forgotten that any other QB has made the team looked absolutely better?

 

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

@football guy Have you heard anything from within the Jets' organization about where they stand on Zach?  Do they see a QB who still has potential (and has been improving) or is he on the outs and it's only a matter of time?

Football guy’s Custodial source suggests the Jets are still high on him and think he’s about to turn the corner.

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I'm talking about NFL scouts, not the guys we see on TV.

Those guys for which Shane posts video reviews are all either scouts, former scouts, or former QBs and QB coaches dude.  

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

People are very dramatic.

And yet….the data backs it up.  It’s not being dramatic if it’s empirically obvious.

[TuscanyTile2]

Just now, Ecuadorian Jet said:

Just because he was not his usual dreadful self, it doesn't mean he played ok.

He played bad because he is bad at being a pro QB. 

Am I in the twilight zone and everyone has forgotten that any other QB has made the team looked absolutely better?

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone regarding ZW.  I see a QB who has greatly improved over his first 2 years in the league and I don't want us to throw him away because he was slower to develop than we wanted him to.  I don't want some other team to reap the rewards after we dealt with all of his growing pains.  That's where I could easily see this going.

[BornJetsFan1983]

The bills who have overcome their suckiness to be a good team once they got josh Allen, just fired their oc because of penalties and poorly coacjed offense and losses. So apparently um according to you they should blame Josh Allen?

No the QB is fine just get a good coach jerks

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 minute ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

The bills who have overcome their suckiness to be a good team once they got josh Allen, just fired their oc because of penalties and poorly coacjed offense and losses. So apparently um according to you they should blame Josh Allen?

No the QB is fine just get a good coach jerks

This, but, I would say the O line for the Jets is also a major problem, as is receiving core. As much as I dislike Hackett, this offense has a lot of problems to overcome, including, but not limited to QB and OC

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Zach Wilson is the epitome of bad.

Even the no-name Cincy backup Browning  threw a TD last week 😃

He didn’t even play an entire game, came in cold off the bench and faced the mighty Ravens D.

[Ecuadorian Jet]

3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone regarding ZW.  I see a QB who has greatly improved over his first 2 years in the league and I don't want us to throw him away because he was slower to develop than we wanted him to.  I don't want some other team to reap the rewards after we dealt with all of his growing pains.  That's where I could easily see this going.

So you want to keep Zach Wilson as QB 1, 2, or 3?

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

So you want to keep Zach Wilson as QB 1, 2, or 3?

If we have AR8 here, then ZW is QB2.

[Jetsfan80]

21 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone regarding ZW.  I see a QB who has greatly improved over his first 2 years in the league and I don't want us to throw him away because he was slower to develop than we wanted him to.  I don't want some other team to reap the rewards after we dealt with all of his growing pains.  That's where I could easily see this going.

Name one failed Jets QB in franchise history where this has been the case.  It took Geno Smith a decade to become an acceptable starter at best.  Who else?

Your fears are unfounded.  No one who makes personnel decisions looks at Zach like you and like 5 other Jets fans here do.  No one.  

[doitny]

9 minutes ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

Just because he was not his usual dreadful self, it doesn't mean he played ok.

He played bad because he is bad at being a pro QB. 

Am I in the twilight zone and everyone has forgotten that any other QB has made the team looked absolutely better?

 

you must not know me. i have been killing Zach since the Pitt game last year. but when you agree that Zach sucks with JN Giants like @T0mShane, @Jetsfan80 and @Warfish little old me falls under the radar..lol

i was trying to say he was ok because the Zach fan club wont even read the rest of a long post like mine if you say he sucks. and i really was getting sick and tired of the new reason why Zach sucks....the penalties.

btw i just heard on the radio that KC leads the NFL in drops. another team that can overcome drops.

[doitny]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

That article was from last year.  He's been a lot more accurate this year than he was in years 1 and 2.

but he is still getting a lot of drops. maybe those balls are being thrown too fast

[TuscanyTile2]

6 minutes ago, doitny said:

but he is still getting a lot of drops. maybe those balls are being thrown too fast

There may well be something to that.  But I'm pretty sure John Elway did the same thing and his WRs were able to catch passes.  Other than GW (who has actually had his share of drops), our other WRs have been complete dogsh-t.  That's more the issue.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

There may well be something to that.  But I'm pretty sure John Elway did the same thing and his WRs were able to catch passes.  Other than GW (who has actually had his share of drops), our other WRs have been complete dogsh-t.  That's more the issue.

The number of drops would decrease by ~ 35 % with Siemian under center.  Lock it in.

[Larz]

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The number of drops would decrease by ~ 35 % with Siemian under center.  Lock it in.

The number of sacks would increase by ~35% too.

[Ecuadorian Jet]

26 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

If we have AR8 here, then ZW is QB2.

We already have seen what he is as QB 2 and he's bad.

[TuscanyTile2]

Just now, Ecuadorian Jet said:

We already have seen what he is as QB 2 and he's bad.

He's improving.  His supporting cast is bad.  

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

The number of sacks would increase by ~35% too.

Mike White, Joe Flacco and Josh Johnson’s collective sack rate 2021-22 was 5 %.  Wilson’s has consistently hovered around 10 % every season.

Zach doesn’t get the ball out quickly.  Siemian would.  Just like immobile slugs Flacco, White and Josh Johnson did.

[doitny]

33 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

The bills who have overcome their suckiness to be a good team once they got josh Allen, just fired their oc because of penalties and poorly coacjed offense and losses. So apparently um according to you they should blame Josh Allen?

No the QB is fine just get a good coach jerks

your not really comparing Josh Allen and Zach Wilson are you?

Buffalo has a 2 time PB QB who has thrown over 35 TDs in each of the last 3 season and has 19 this year. Zach has 20 TD in his 3 year career.

so yeah if your offense is bad with Josh Allen you fire the coach, when your offense is bad with Zach Wilson,.. yeah its Zachs fault.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

He's improving.  His supporting cast is bad.  

He’s 36th of 36 QBs in EPA.  He’s worse than every starter and at least several backups (probably most backups if those guys played enough to be statistically relevant).  His “improvement” is close to meaningless.

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

We already have seen what he is as QB 2 and he's bad.

“Bad” would be an improvement.  I’d take bad.  Gimme a Desmond Ridder over Zach at QB2 any day.  

[Ecuadorian Jet]

12 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

He's improving.  His supporting cast is bad.  

Were you a Zach proponent when he was drafted?

[T0mShane]

54 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Football guy’s Custodial source suggests the Jets are still high on him and think he’s about to turn the corner.

They are going to open it up after the BYE, baby

[Jet_Engine1]

54 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone regarding ZW.  I see a QB who has greatly improved over his first 2 years in the league and I don't want us to throw him away because he was slower to develop than we wanted him to.  I don't want some other team to reap the rewards after we dealt with all of his growing pains.  That's where I could easily see this going.

Sunk cost. 

[TuscanyTile2]

19 minutes ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

Were you a Zach proponent when he was drafted?

Not particularly.  I mean, it's always fun to draft a new QB and I did enjoy hearing the praise that guys like Romo were throwing his way.  That gave me hope.  But I always felt Darnold got a raw deal and I would've been fine letting him get another chance with a better supporting cast and a real HC.

I criticized Zach a ton his first 2 years btw.  I even criticized him when most on this forum were praising him last year (when we were winning) and took a decent amount of crap for that.  Now I find myself on the other side of this debate, which is a very strange place to be - lol.

EDIT: I know it's hard to believe (and I say that without sarcasm) but I'm not someone who went all in on drafting him at the time and am now just trying to justify that belief.  I actually genuinely see progress in Zach this year and that's why I've changed my mind on him.

EDIT #2: I admit it's difficult to defend Zach when the offense isn't scoring TDs (and not much in general).  But I look at this the same way I look at JD.  I see progress but not results.  Maybe I'll end up being spectacularly wrong about Zach but I'm not going to just pile on the criticism with the rest of the crowd.  My gut says that there's a good QB in there somewhere.

[Jetsplayer21]

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

If the Jets were to cut Zach, I feel certain he'd be picked up to be QB2 on another roster.  And I bet that team will be thinking about how to develop him to be the guy that everyone saw the potential in when he was picked #2 overall.

I'd love to hear a legitimate talent evaluator's opinion of him.

I don’t know man. The whole “ number 2 overall “ doesn’t hold much weight now, especially college he came from, and who picked him  he was a reach for the 1st round. He’s had plenty of opportunities. All other teams will not have any sentimental attachment to him like JD. They won’t care that their 6th round pick is a little better than Zach. Here zach would be in front of that guy no question, everywhere else no way. 
 

There are a lot of guys who are better than Zach riding the bench, will be more rookies coming in who will surprise teams. There is only 1 qb on the field, it’s a tough position to play in the NFL. Most do not get 3 years of playing worst in the league and still get a chance to try to prove themselves.

[Warfish]

4 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

You were the one who took the shot at him by saying "He has great arm strength for a guy his size."  I'm just proving to you that there was no need to qualify it.  He's got a tremendous arm for a QB of any size.  And now you have the proof.  

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

[Ecuadorian Jet]

5 hours ago, doitny said:

you must not know me. i have been killing Zach since the Pitt game last year.

nice to meet you sir