Joe Douglas fails again (pending a follow-up story)

[AFJF]

9 hours ago, Bronx said:

I know this is an old article and fundamentally rhetorical, but a worthy reminder of our current GM's incompetence.  

Joe Douglas Has Failed to Build Jets' Offensive Line

This former Jets scout is critical in his evaluation of Joe Douglas, GM of a team that has some serious issues on the offensive line.

• DANIEL KELLY
• DEC 27, 2022 11:10 AM EST

 

 

Since taking over, Jets' General Manager Joe Douglas has built one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL.

During this time frame (2019-current), New York has surrendered 186 sacks, which represents the third-most in the league.

Some would argue Douglas was stuck with the offensive line he inherited, but that argument doesn't hold weight when examining his first three drafts.

On one of the most important units on the team, Douglas has drafted four offensive linemen in three years.

2020:

• Round 1 - Mekhi Becton (OT)
• Round 4 - Cameron Clark (OT)

2021:

• Round 2 - Alijah Vera-Tucker (OG)

2022:

• Round 4 - Max Mitchell (OT)

Vera-Tucker is the best of the group, but in Douglas' defense, even he along with the other three have dealt with injuries (to one extent or another). Clark never even saw the field and had to retire due to serious injury concerns during his first training camp.

Becton is the real sore spot on the list.

Despite there being pre-draft public intel on Becton having documented weight issues at Louisville, Douglas punched it at the yellow light. Becton has since been running out of gas battling both weight and injury issues.

He started 14 games for New York in 2020, and one game since.

In free agency, Douglas has had eight offensive line signings.

2020:

• Greg Van Roten (OG) 3 years, $10.5 million
• Connon McGovern (C) 3 years, $27 million
• George Fant (OT) 3 years, $27.3 million
• Alex Lewis (OG) 3 years, $18.6 million
• Josh Andrews (C) 1 year, $1,047,500

2021:

• Dan Feeney (OG) 1 year, $3 million

2022:

• Laken Tomlinson (OG) 3 years, $40 million
• Dan Feeney (OG) 1 year, $3 million
• Duane Brown (OT) 2 years, $20 million

Fant (35 starts) and McGovern (46 starts) are the noticeable winners on this list, and as for the rest...

They've been better at cashing checks than blocking defenders.

Lewis played in nine games and had contentious moments with teammates and coaches, before retiring the following training camp.

Andrews graded out as the second-worst guard that season according to Pro Football Focus. The team didn't bring him back, and Andrews has since played for two different teams in two years.

Feeney is Feeney (6 starts in two seasons).

Tomlinson has been reported to have struggled this season (I put a pre-season B- grade on Tomlinson), and Brown has played through a shoulder injury all year (I put a pre-season C- grade on Brown).

If Douglas was a batter at the plate for the Yankees, when examining his draft and free agency results, the television announcer would say 'And Douglas is looking at an 0-2 count.'

However, even more concerning than Douglas' draft and free agency results is his depth chart, or lack thereof.

More concerning than that is what will happen to this "depth" once the season ends.

Out of the 11 offensive lineman in reserve currently. 9 are in the last year of their contracts.

Looking at the 2023 salary cap, the Jets are scheduled to have $15,903,165 of cap space (per spotrac.com).

Nate Herbig, who is filling in for the injured Vera-Tucker at right guard, is also a free agent at season's end, as is Fant.

Douglas is in danger of being 4-for-4 in the department of producing losing seasons, and to say the Jets' offensive line could end up getting Douglas fired at the end of 2023 is the understatement of the year.

It is worth noting, New York has had two first-round quarterbacks fizzle out during Douglas' watch (Sam Darnold and Zach Wilson).

The theme of the 2023 NFL Draft for Douglas will need to be the offensive line, and these are the two linemen I'm suggesting the scouting department take a long and hard look at.

Round 1: Anton Harrison (LT) Oklahoma - A physical and aggressive mauler with long arms who reminds me of the 49ers' Trent Williams.

Round 2: Dewand Jones (RT) Ohio State - A towering (6-foot-8, 359 pounds) and strong presence with above average lateral foot speed.

Every Jets' fan in attendance at the draft needs to be chanting, "J-E-T-S, OFFENSIVE LINE, OFFENSIVE LINE, OFFENSIVE LINE" each and every time New York is on the clock, or it will not make any difference who's under center. 

I'd listen to what Alex Jones has to say about Joe Douglas before Daniel Kelly.

How do so many people fall for this stuff?

[The Crusher]

8 hours ago, bitonti said:

Lets accept this for the sake of argument 

You can't predict injuries but you can build a pipeline with mid Rd draft picks and talented offensive line coaching 

The Jets have an awful line coach who will most likely be fired and all the mid Rd picks have been worthless. Even if we give Joe Douglas a pass on the starters getting injured he built one of the worst ol rooms in the league 

They are literally starting a different right guard every week it's a joke 

Oh And he also built one of the worst qb rooms too.

Poor position coaches and These mid Rd picks captain Morgan, cam Clark, Carter Warren, and max Mitchell all terrible 

I’d argue the QB room is worse. Way worse. 

[redlichtie]

9 hours ago, Falco21 said:

That isn't because of lack of talent. That is because of lack of health. 

Becton was a pro bowl tackle. He got hurt. AVT was a pro bowl guard. He got hurt. Tippman has been great and is becoming our next starting center. 

So no, I don't blame JD on the line. I blame injuries 

Injuries can’t always be passed off as just bad luck and given a free pass, people get injured due to poor technique or poor fitness and conditioning. The training conditions, any number of things can contribute. The coaches and GM are responsible for ensuring the best possible outcomes and minimising the injury probability. Of course there will always be some element of misfortune but absolving Joe Douglas of all blame is simply wrong 

[redlichtie]

6 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

For anyone paying attention, none of this is really a surprise regarding what was then, and still is now.  It's been pretty obvious for years, to anyone not refusing to acknowledge the reality of this team.  JD has pretty consistently been a poor GM for 5 years running.  His greatest success was to have gotten some wildly undeserved hype when signed, because we all know nothing is better than the guy who every hiring team in the NFL had just rejected for the same job.  He's since gotten the chance to ride on nothing but pure stubbornness from many after that.

The truth is, for as much as some want to laughably celebrate him being nearly two years removed from one draft of finally not taking all-time busts for a change, with his continuous stream of high first rounders being thanks to the garbage performances of every single one of his own teams, there's still been little noticeable improvement in quality of the less hair/more pounds copycat of Mike Maccagnan.

For as many excuses have been made for him about the team he inherited, 5 years later that group has nothing to do with the what exists today, and yet the guys he inherited still actually had a better record than any roster he has been able to put together himself.  Forget everything else, that is a completely indisputable matter of pure fact.  It's been no more than a string of excuses of why it's somehow not the fault of the guy who is totally responsible for the entire structure of the team that is just as bad or worse at every single facet of football, with the lone exception of CB.

Sure, OL could be considered one that jumps off the page, but that's perhaps because even a person who has never watched a single game of football before would still have the cognitive function to understand that continuing on an identical path of multiple years of known failure would be the most mind-numbingly stupid approach possible.  Yet, that's still the very best that JD could come up with.

But he’s not Mike Maccagnan so he’s great, leave him alone 

Otherwise, excellent post 

[Biggs]

Douglas has consistently won the off season.  That’s a highly under rated skill in a league where revenue is based on showing up.  

[Dunnie]

Injuries can’t always be passed off as just bad luck and given a free pass, people get injured due to poor technique or poor fitness and conditioning. The training conditions, any number of things can contribute. The coaches and GM are responsible for ensuring the best possible outcomes and minimising the injury probability. Of course there will always be some element of misfortune but absolving Joe Douglas of all blame is simply wrong 

Unfortunately.. I agree... Being able to put together a squad that is more durable is not luck it's a skill. The trick is finding the balance ... A Porsche is useless if the engine don't run.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[redlichtie]

10 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Unfortunately.. I agree... Being able to put together a squad that is more durable is not luck it's a skill. The trick is finding the balance ... A Porsche is useless if the engine don't run.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Indeed, a couple of others in this thread have also mentioned the lack of a pipeline of quality depth. So we know we have some guys with durability issues therefore it’s essential to keep adding young guys who can step in and take their opportunity, in fairness to Douglas here, this is where the coaching has to be better.
It’s also baffling to me that nobody has made much of his roster management. We found two guys that cost us nothing in terms of draft  capital in Morgan Moses (about as durable as it gets in NFL terms) and we binned him after 1 very very successful year while putting all our eggs in the 100 year old, permanently banged up, Duane Brown. We also found a very decent depth guy in Nate Herbig last year, it was no coincidence that some of our better OL performances came after he was inserted into the line-up, but we let him go in FA. With some starting experience surely it made sense to bring him back for continuity’s sake? instead of scraping around the waiver wire for the warm body’s that are Schweitzer and Glaser? 
 

[Falco21]

59 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

Injuries can’t always be passed off as just bad luck and given a free pass, people get injured due to poor technique or poor fitness and conditioning. The training conditions, any number of things can contribute. The coaches and GM are responsible for ensuring the best possible outcomes and minimising the injury probability. Of course there will always be some element of misfortune but absolving Joe Douglas of all blame is simply wrong 

I'm not absolving him of all blame. Hell, I've been pointing the most blame at him for decisions at QB, WR, and the offensive line. 

What I am saying is that he has drafted guys that are high talent players and have largely "panned" out. The only concern has been injuries, which is on him as well, I agree. 

And for the record, my previous post was poorly worded. I don't "not blame JD for the line". My point was that he has provided a lot of talent to that line. Injuries have been a huge problem and yes, he has fault in those injuries to a degree 

[derp]

10 hours ago, Falco21 said:

He did not have an injury history in Louisville. The overweight concern came after he was drafted, not during his tenure at Louisville. Not much Douglas can do in that regard

It’s true that he did not have an injury history at Louisville.

Not true that the weight concern came after he was drafted or that there wasn’t much Douglas could’ve done. Maybe some people didn’t realize the weight was a question at the time he was picked, but it always was. 

Literally from his NFL.com draft profile:

“With all really big prospects, weight and quickness will be concerns, but Becton’s areas of concern are correctable and manageable if he’s disciplined enough to prioritize them. He has the potential to be a good starter on either side, but the weight creates an obvious low-floor scenario.”

We even talked about the weight here. Becton was always a swing for the fences pick. If there was no risk associated with drafting a guy that big who moved like that he would’ve gone much higher than pick 11.

[FidelioJet]

Joe Douglas is not a good GM.  

[FidelioJet]

The Tackle situation this off-season was about as poorly managed as could possibly be.  
This alone, if he did nothing else wrong, is a fireable offense. 

[the Claw]

11 hours ago, doitny said:

i say there is something up with all the injuries to the OL. no other position group has been hit as hard as they have for 2 years.

it cant be the turf cause the other groups are not getting it like the OL.

cant be the OC or OL coach as we have had 2 different ones.

its got to be the blocking scheme. maybe these guys are just not the right players for it.

 

There’s no way it’s luck at this point. I honestly think a lot of it is that some guys are just not good at keeping their feet and they end up on the ground while the others end up getting pushed around them. Bad O linemen are unpredictable and cause injuries to others. Now put 3 or 4 of them together and you get injuries galore. 

[bitonti]

10 hours ago, Plen T said:

They all get injured. Including the backups.

what he has done an atrocious job on is hiring coaches

and scouts too - any department who looks at Zach Wilson as the savior is a ****ed up scouting department 

[Joe W. Namath]

Jet fans want like 10 jet players in the pro bowl and then turn around w/ “joe d sucks” stuff.

You cant make it up.

[dcJet]

10 hours ago, bitonti said:

Those guys are all terrible and if they had any chance they don't get developed 

Lets put it another way.

Wyatt teller right guard for the Browns was a fifth round pick. Trey Smith right guard for the Kcc a sixth Rd pick. That's what mid Rd picks can be. Jets fans are too forgiving of how many picks the team wastes

These guys are pro bowlers and part of it is they scouted well another part of it the coaches like Bill Callahan and Andy heck are the best in the business. The jets employ garbage position coaches like Keith Carter and John Dui Benton. 

Teams can find Pro Bowl starters outside of the first round?  Wow, didn't know that.

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, the Claw said:

There’s no way it’s luck at this point. I honestly think a lot of it is that some guys are just not good at keeping their feet and they end up on the ground while the others end up getting pushed around them. Bad O linemen are unpredictable and cause injuries to others. Now put 3 or 4 of them together and you get injuries galore. 

I honestly think it's all this moving around positions.  OLmen aren't chess peices.

i.e...

How many games has AVT played at guard and gotten injured?

How many games has AVT played at T and gotten two season ending injuries?

 

[bitonti]

4 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I honestly think it's all this moving around positions.  OLmen aren't chess peices.

i.e...

How many games has AVT played at guard and gotten injured?

How many games has AVT played at T and gotten two season ending injuries?

 

it's the QB's fault that the OL injuries are high 

when garbage players like Zach demand 4 or 5 seconds or break the pocket in weird ways and the OL are giving you 2.5 seconds, that's like doubling the workload of the line 

if you went to any farm or factory in the nation and demanded double the output, the result will be injuries 

[Plen T]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

and scouts too - any department who looks at Zach Wilson as the savior is a ****ed up scouting department 

Every team wanted him including the Eagles and 9ers 

the Jets blew it

[FidelioJet]

14 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Contrary to what the Jets have had for quite a while Douglas knows how to be a GM he knows how to trade get quality for less money and  not be fleeced like Mike Maccagnan

Joe got absolutely fleeced in the Rodgers trade.  

[bitonti]

34 minutes ago, Plen T said:

Every team wanted him including the Eagles and 9ers 

the Jets blew it

Even if that's true (who knows) it doesn't excuse how bad that scouting process was by the jets 

[Jet_Engine1]

11 hours ago, Jack Straw said:

 

And what happens when your scouts tell you to draft DeWayne Robertson?


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

You fire them.

[the Claw]

On 12/16/2023 at 10:41 AM, FidelioJet said:

I honestly think it's all this moving around positions.  OLmen aren't chess peices.

i.e...

How many games has AVT played at guard and gotten injured?

How many games has AVT played at T and gotten two season ending injuries?

 

Very true, and even still, an injured, crappy o line has been the Jets MO for practically a decade. The sad part is that JD has tried, Idzick and Mac basically forgot the O line existed. Recruiting offense is JDs achilles heel. Dude needs help in this dept.