How underrated is JFM?

[AFJF]

The JFM vs Clemons got me thinking about how versatile and impactful JFM is while essentially being a forgotten man on the defensive front.  We talk so much about Quinnen, JJ and Huff that JFM, who moves around more than any of the others on this DL is taken for granted.

Not great fantasy production, but hugely impactful player.

Is there a player who does more but gets talked about less?

 

[jamesr]

Waiting for the "pressures don't matter, only sacks" brigade to chime in.   

[Anthony Jet]

24 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Waiting for the "pressures don't matter, only sacks" brigade to chime in.   

Warning track power 

[bonkertons]

I undervalued him last offseason but it's clear that he's a huge part of this defense's success.  Having a guy like that who helps anchor your run D while also contributing his fair share of pressures and sacks...he's an asset, for sure.  

 

Hopefully Clemons can take the next step and prove he can fill his shoes at some point next season.  He's a guy we might have to part with a year from now in order to make the cap work(I think he'll be 28 by then).  

[mrcoops]

JFM is a good player, and valuable to the D.  He's good against the run and gets his share of pressures, QB hits and sacks.

He's not a star like Quinnen, but he's a glue guy who adds a lot of value to the team.

Contract-wise, he's well paid but not excessively so. I definitely think the Jets keep him around again this year, probably with an extension or reworked contract for cap purposes.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

I cannot remember the last time they called his name. 
That's great for the o-line, bad for the d.

[Augustiniak]

The last 10 afc qbs in the Super Bowl are Brady, manning, mahomes and burrow.  That’s what i think of jfm and Clemons.  Completely irrelevant. 

[AFJF]

1 hour ago, Anthony Jet said:

Warning track power 

Nothing wrong with 50 doubles a year.

[AFJF]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

I cannot remember the last time they called his name. 
That's great for the o-line, bad for the d.

I don't worry so much about how often broadcaster mention a guy.  I focus more on how he plays.

[jamesr]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

The last 10 afc qbs in the Super Bowl are Brady, manning, mahomes and burrow.  That’s what i think of jfm and Clemons.  Completely irrelevant. 

Yet without their D yesterday putting constant pressure on Lamar, KC may be watching from home like the rest of us.

Defense matters.

[Augustiniak]

20 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Yet without their D yesterday putting constant pressure on Lamar, KC may be watching from home like the rest of us.

Defense matters.

Without mahomes, lamar and those OLs they don’t make the playoffs.  

[AFJF]

3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Without mahomes, lamar and those OLs they don’t make the playoffs.  

So offense and defense both matter?  

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, AFJF said:

So offense and defense both matter?  

Not to the same degree.  You can’t win if you can’t score but you can win if you give up 20-30 points if you can score.  

[JOJOTOWNSELL]

We have been waiting for a pass rusher since John Abraham and now we want to trade him?.

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

Not to the same degree.  You can’t win if you can’t score but you can win if you give up 20-30 points if you can score.  

And you can't lose if the other team doesn't score.

Offense is more important because the league has put rules in place to make it that way, but defense still matters.

[Anthony Jet]

32 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Nothing wrong with 50 doubles a year.

Thats a gap hitter 

[AFJF]

Just now, JOJOTOWNSELL said:

We have been waiting for a pass rusher since John Abraham and now we want to trade him?.

Wrong thread?

[JustInFudge]

In what sense?  By the fan base?  Idk.  He's carrying a top 5 cap hit and he'll be more remembered for his blunders than making plays. 

 

[AFJF]

Just now, Anthony Jet said:

Thats a gap hitter 

Yes, many of which land in the gap on the warning track.

Sacks are fun but there are other ways to impact the game.

[Anthony Jet]

Just now, AFJF said:

Yes, many of which land in the gap on the warning track.

Sacks are fun but there are other ways to impact the game.

It wasn’t meant to be taken seriously…not expecting big sack numbers for JFM. I got no beef with him. 

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, JustInFudge said:

In what sense?  By the fan base?  Idk.  He's carrying a top 5 cap hit and he'll be more remembered for his blunders than making plays. 

 

Yes, by the fan base.  A lot of people honestly seem to believe that the only way to impact a football game on defense is through sacks and INT's.

And many of his blunders have been BS calls.  I'm not gonna' get  mad at the dude because the refs go out of their way to protect other team's QB's.

[GKnight83]

1 hour ago, bonkertons said:

Having a guy like that who helps anchor your run D while also contributing his fair share of pressures and sacks...he's an asset, for sure.  

 

 

What run D?!

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, AFJF said:

And you can't lose if the other team doesn't score.

Offense is more important because the league has put rules in place to make it that way, but defense still matters.

Exactly, offense matters more.  That’s my main point.  Therefore investing more resources on offense is wiser than investing heavily on defense.  A good offense with an average defense is better than an average offense and a good defense.  Sometimes the other team is just going to score points on you no matter how good your defense is.  Sometimes the refs screw you.  And if your qb sucks and your OL sucks you punt too much and turn it over and it puts undue stress on the defense.  Sound familiar?

draft resources need to be put into OL and a qb succesor so when rodgers misses half the season they have a guy who can be groomed.  This is better use of draft capital than taking a DT. 

[GreenFish]

He’s a good player. We are very deep at DE and Huff might walk. No knock on JFM but I would rather have Huff. And we cant keep both otherwise we’d be allocating too many resources to the edge position. We need to get better at other positions like OL and WR.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

He's good.

That's all. Good.

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

Exactly, offense matters more.  That’s my main point.  Therefore investing more resources on offense is wiser than investing heavily on defense.  A good offense with an average defense is better than an average offense and a good defense.  Sometimes the other team is just going to score points on you no matter how good your defense is.  Sometimes the refs screw you.  And if your qb sucks and your OL sucks you punt too much and turn it over and it puts undue stress on the defense.  Sound familiar?

draft resources need to be put into OL and a qb succesor so when rodgers misses half the season they have a guy who can be groomed.  This is better use of draft capital than taking a DT. 

They've been investing heavily in OL for a few years now but how many games have we seen all of these guys play together?

Guys need to stay on the field.

And it's not as if they're drafting dudes with extensive injury histories.  That's what makes it all so frustrating to me.

Imagine this OL of AVT and Becton never got injured?  Becton finally stayed healthy this year and looked worse than he ever did as a rookie.  That knee had to play a role.

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, AFJF said:

They've been investing heavily in OL for a few years now but how many games have we seen all of these guys play together?

Guys need to stay on the field.

And it's not as if they're drafting dudes with extensive injury histories.  That's what makes it all so frustrating to me.

Imagine this OL of AVT and Becton never got injured?  Becton finally stayed healthy this year and looked worse than he ever did as a rookie.  That knee had to play a role.

I agree at least douglas drafts offensive players in the first round.  The injuries are maddening.  And he did trade for rodgers.  At least the gm is trying to improve the offense.  The problem is zach wilson set the franchise back a few years.  And becton sucks. 

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

I agree at least douglas drafts offensive players in the first round.  The injuries are maddening.  And he did trade for rodgers.  At least the gm is trying to improve the offense.  The problem is zach wilson set the franchise back a few years.  And becton sucks. 

They could have 3 starters who are anywhere from good to dominant in AVT, Tippmann and Warren.

It's a good start if they can stay healthy.

Add another guy to the group early in the draft this year and you've got something to work with.

[Adoni Beast]

His versatility is unbelievably important to our rotation, but would like to see more production and impact plays for his price tag. I don't think a restructure is out of the question.

Clemons is awful and literally makes no positive impact at all. Anyone suggestion that Clemons can replace JFM is completely off the mark.

[Adoni Beast]

Just now, AFJF said:

They could have 3 starters who are anywhere from good to dominant in AVT, Tippmann and Warren.

It's a good start if they can stay healthy.

Add another guy to the group early in the draft this year and you've got something to work with.

I think they'll sign 2 tackles this offseason. One bargain vet who can play LT or RT and one as the presumed LT starter on a short-term deal....which I actually think is going to be Becton.

They will certainly look to the draft to hopefully find their long-term LT solution.

[jamesr]

12 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Exactly, offense matters more.  That’s my main point.  Therefore investing more resources on offense is wiser than investing heavily on defense.  A good offense with an average defense is better than an average offense and a good defense.  Sometimes the other team is just going to score points on you no matter how good your defense is.  Sometimes the refs screw you.  And if your qb sucks and your OL sucks you punt too much and turn it over and it puts undue stress on the defense.  Sound familiar?

draft resources need to be put into OL and a qb succesor so when rodgers misses half the season they have a guy who can be groomed.  This is better use of draft capital than taking a DT. 

No one is arguing to allocate more draft capital to DT or other defensive positions. I think the entire board wants OT, WR and QB to be the focus positions this offseason.

That said - offense matters more in general, but there will be games where defense matters more, and you have to have both in reasonable measures. Baltimore lost yesterday because of how well the KC defense played, not because the KC offense put up a whopping 17 points. 

[JustInFudge]

28 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Yes, by the fan base.  A lot of people honestly seem to believe that the only way to impact a football game on defense is through sacks and INT's.

And many of his blunders have been BS calls.  I'm not gonna' get  mad at the dude because the refs go out of their way to protect other team's QB's.

Fair enough but in defense of Jets fans here,  I wonder how much more impactful he was then Thomas or Jefferson who are fractions of the cost?  From that perspective, if we're being objective, is he playing up to what the Jets are paying him? 

 

[varjet]

• JFM was picked up off of waivers and was developed/became an indispensable player.
• JD extended him early for a lot of money, with an out later in the contract.  That is sort of good.  It is what he should have done with Huff.
• But when you write an expensive contract to a player like that, to make the cap work you need to draft his replacement soon.   I think Clemons was supposed to be it.  Despite the fact that Clemons was drafted and JFM was not, I don’t think Clemons can replace JFM now.
• Defense is obviously important, but the Jets cannot continue to overspend money on defensive players while the offense sucks wind.   JD has to find money savings from JFM and Mosley, somehow.  
• From listening to Senior Bowl previews I think the Jets can get lucky and find a G in the 3rd round, so maybe we can launch Tomlinson.  Ozomah is toast.  
• I would not fall off of my chair if JD picks a DT in the first round.    That would actually make sense but for the other needs.  

[Augustiniak]

18 minutes ago, jamesr said:

No one is arguing to allocate more draft capital to DT or other defensive positions. I think the entire board wants OT, WR and QB to be the focus positions this offseason.

That said - offense matters more in general, but there will be games where defense matters more, and you have to have both in reasonable measures. Baltimore lost yesterday because of how well the KC defense played, not because the KC offense put up a whopping 17 points. 

If you get to the championship game you probably have a very good qb and at least a decent defense.  Winning that game often comes down to which team can stop that elite offense better.  But overall during the regular season, having even baker mayfield at qb instead of ZW means a wild card vs crap.  

[Prodigal Syndicate]

He is very mediocre and over paid.

Our run D was atrocious and his impact plays are usually negative boneheaded ones.