A Proposal To Jet Nation

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Saving this for my wife 

you have given me a great gift. Thank you! 

Mrs slim:  “You spent how much on [insert hobby]?”

slim:  “I know you’re upset, but I know what’ll help.  Check out what this guy on the internet says about me….”

[HighPitch]

Its like your gf offering anal if sex is reduced to saturdays only. Ill take that deal as well

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, GangGreened said:

Is this a spin of the Rodgers or Eli thread?

If Eli had only won 1 ring and Rodgers had 0, that would pretty much exactly be what this debate was about.  

[Warfish]

I'll use a real-world example close to my own heart:

The Washington Nationals won the World Series in 2019.  An event I was there attending games for all season long, and also attended one game of each round of, including a home World Series game.  It may be the best sports moment(s) of my sports fan life to-date.  I would not trade it for anything.

Since then, the Nats have gone 26-34, 65-97, 55-107, 71-91 and are 39-45 so far in 2024.  Five years of pretty much basement-dwelling and rebuilding.  I've attended my usual 10-12 games each of those years, and enjoyed doing so.

Would I trade away the magic and joy of the 2019 World Series title, to maybe have a shot at the playoffs or more in 2025-2030?  No.  The title is real, it can never be taken away from us fans or the city.  There was never any guarantee we'd be good in the future years anyway.

The devil only makes bargains he knows will screw you.  Only ONE team wins a title every year.  So his bargain is really this:

1. Guaranteed Super Bowl win followed by ten non-playoff years.

2. Unknown outcomes over the next 11 seasons, which could ALSO be 11 more non-playoff seasons, or playoff 1-and-out seasons, or AFCCG losses, or Super Bowl losses.

This is an easy choice, don't let the gamblers fallacy fool you.  Take the guaranteed title, and then live with the cost.  Don't gamble that the Jets, of all teams, will be that ONE team over the next ten years.  The odds are very low they would be.  Just look at all the years since 1969/1970 for proof of that.

Take the title, enjoy it to the absolute maximum, make it a life moment you would cherish forever, and then follow along till the price is paid.

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Like the series last week?  
That kind of beat down?

WOW what an accomplishment . Not worth the time Jet Nut

[Jet_Engine1]

Gee, I don't know. This Satan fella seems pretty reasonable.

[Satan]

1 hour ago, ARodJetsFan said:

I wonder what deal you made with Joe Namath back in 1968.

Feels like we're still paying for that one.

[JustInFudge]

4 hours ago, JustInFudge said:

 

@Satan thanks for your rep!  Dead fan or just like songs about you?

[Smashmouth]

Awesome cover 

[bicketybam]

I'm holding out for a better deal from Jesus.

 

[Jet Nut]

59 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

WOW what an accomplishment . Not worth the time Jet Nut

Don’t like two beat downs?  
All the time in the world won’t change a thing .  LOL

 

[UntouchableCrew]

11 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

Deal. I get a Super Bowl win plus millions of dollars? (if the win is guaranteed, I'm throwing some real money down on them to win the championship at +2200)

That'll get me through ten playoff-less years just fine, thanks

That's the real question, can we bet/profit off of this? That's worth more than the win TBH.

[PS17]

10 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Why are your posts always so damn reasonable?  lol.

 

 

[UntouchableCrew]

12 hours ago, slimjasi said:

It’s funny because I sort of have the opposite reaction initially. Nothing is more depressing than being bad and irrelevant every year. And the thought of another guaranteed decade of being irrelevant really bums me out and makes me want to say f*ck you 
 

Of course, I’d untimely take a fluky championship - beggars can’t be choosers.
 

But the one thing I really want to see in my lifetime is a sustained run of 5ish years where the Jets are contenders. I can’t deal with being losers year after year. That’s what’s draining. 

Very strongly agree with this.

You would often see debates over which fanbases were more tortured -- those like the Lions and Browns who just sucked every year no matter what or those like the Vikings who had their hearts broken in excruciating fashion.

I've discovered that, at least for me, the answer is very, very easily the former.

As a Jets fan most of my formative years were successful. From 1997-2010 the Jets had a winning record 10 times in 14 years. They went 8-8 once -- they actually only had a losing record 3 times. Made the playoffs 7 times (50% of the time) and had a few deep playoff runs. Lost in the AFC Title Game 3 times. I did not experience back to back losing seasons from the Jets until the 2017 season.

Were some of those losses brutal? Was it frustrating to be unable to best the Pats when they were 13-3 and we were 10-6? Sure.

But we were relevant, We were in it. The games were meaningful and worth watching. As a hobby the Jets were competitive enough to give me something to care about.

We are now in the midst of 8 consecutive losing seasons and my overall interest in the Jets is close to an all time low. Simply put, you get to the point where investing time and energy (let alone money) in a team that is just a loser isn't worth it.

If you asked me "what would you rather have -- one Super Bowl and 10 losing seasons or 11 seasons where the Jets are competitive" (let's say alive for the playoffs on the last game of the season) I think I'd lean the latter.

Would love a Super Bowl. But really I just want a product worth watching.

[doitny]

1 hour ago, GangGreened said:

Is this a spin of the Rodgers or Eli thread?

yeah but i gave you guys a better deal than Satan.

 

[Barry McCockinner]

4 minutes ago, doitny said:

yeah but i gave you guys a better deal than Satan.

 

you're a real stand up guy!

[greenwichjetfan]

As fans, the actual winning of the chip does nothing for us. We don't see any financial benefits, we don't get rings, we don't get to get drunk on the floats while plebians cheer for us during the champ parade. We don't get the next 3 months off from work and life. We win the super bowl Sunday night and wake up the next morning and do the same thing we did the Friday prior. 

I'm in it for the journey. I'm in it to watch the games with my 5 y.o. son and watch his face light up. Winning the championship would be incredible, obviously, but knowing we will win ahead of time would take a big part of the joy out of it.

I'd much rather have a guaranteed 15 years of strong regular seasons and playoff berths. What happens in the playoffs for all 15 years would be non-guaranteed with a ceiling of winning 15 chips and a floor of losing 15 wild card games. 

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, greenwichjetfan said:

As fans, the actual winning of the chip does nothing for us. We don't see any financial benefits, we don't get rings, we don't get to get drunk on the floats while plebians cheer for us during the champ parade. We don't get the next 3 months off from work and life. We win the super bowl Sunday night and wake up the next morning and do the same thing we did the Friday prior. 

I'm in it for the journey. I'm in it to watch the games with my 5 y.o. son and watch his face light up. Winning the championship would be incredible, obviously, but knowing we will win ahead of time would take a big part of the joy out of it.

I'd much rather have a guaranteed 15 years of strong regular seasons and playoff berths. What happens in the playoffs for all 15 years would be non-guaranteed with a ceiling of winning 15 chips and a floor of losing 15 wild card games. 

I most certainly would not wake up the next morning and do the same thing. I'd be the most insufferable prick known to man kind talking sh*t about the Jets. OK so maybe the same after all.

[greenwichjetfan]

3 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I most certainly would not wake up the next morning and do the same thing. I'd be the most insufferable prick known to man kind talking sh*t about the Jets. OK so maybe the same after all.

Semantically I guess you're right. On the Friday before, given our history, you likely wouldn't be talking as much sh*t as aggressively as you would be the Monday morning after. I'd imagine that delta to be pretty wide. 

[FidelioJet]

I can do a decade standing on my head.   

[greenwichjetfan]

29 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Very strongly agree with this.

You would often see debates over which fanbases were more tortured -- those like the Lions and Browns who just sucked every year no matter what or those like the Vikings who had their hearts broken in excruciating fashion.

I've discovered that, at least for me, the answer is very, very easily the former.

As a Jets fan most of my formative years were successful. From 1997-2010 the Jets had a winning record 10 times in 14 years. They went 8-8 once -- they actually only had a losing record 3 times. Made the playoffs 7 times (50% of the time) and had a few deep playoff runs. Lost in the AFC Title Game 3 times. I did not experience back to back losing seasons from the Jets until the 2017 season.

Were some of those losses brutal? Was it frustrating to be unable to best the Pats when they were 13-3 and we were 10-6? Sure.

But we were relevant, We were in it. The games were meaningful and worth watching. As a hobby the Jets were competitive enough to give me something to care about.

We are now in the midst of 8 consecutive losing seasons and my overall interest in the Jets is close to an all time low. Simply put, you get to the point where investing time and energy (let alone money) in a team that is just a loser isn't worth it.

If you asked me "what would you rather have -- one Super Bowl and 10 losing seasons or 11 seasons where the Jets are competitive" (let's say alive for the playoffs on the last game of the season) I think I'd lean the latter.

Would love a Super Bowl. But really I just want a product worth watching.

 

7 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

As fans, the actual winning of the chip does nothing for us. We don't see any financial benefits, we don't get rings, we don't get to get drunk on the floats while plebians cheer for us during the champ parade. We don't get the next 3 months off from work and life. We win the super bowl Sunday night and wake up the next morning and do the same thing we did the Friday prior. 

I'm in it for the journey. I'm in it to watch the games with my 5 y.o. son and watch his face light up. Winning the championship would be incredible, obviously, but knowing we will win ahead of time would take a big part of the joy out of it.

I'd much rather have a guaranteed 15 years of strong regular seasons and playoff berths. What happens in the playoffs for all 15 years would be non-guaranteed with a ceiling of winning 15 chips and a floor of losing 15 wild card games. 

We must be around the same age. Your entire post is exactly how I feel. 

[Smashmouth]

56 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Don’t like two beat downs?  
All the time in the world won’t change a thing .  LOL

 

All the time in the world wont change 27 world championships and 58 playoff appearances . Oh and yeah we beat the Mets in one of those world series.  You can have your 2 precious beatdowns. Just to add to your Met fan misery we won 7 world series while the Mets existed. Mets fans are now probably reduced to rooting for the Yankees not to win the world series rather than winning one themselves.

[Warfish]

41 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

If you asked me "what would you rather have -- one Super Bowl and 10 losing seasons or 11 seasons where the Jets are competitive" (let's say alive for the playoffs on the last game of the season) I think I'd lean the latter.

All well and good, but that's not the bargain on the table.  Changing the terms changes the question.

What is on offer is:

1. A guaranteed Super Bowl win in 2024, followed by a guaranteed ten non-playoff seasons.

2. 11 seasons of whatever the Jets would otherwise be, good, bad, great, horrible, playoffs, no-playoffs.  i.e. what we already have.

Your scenario changes the terms mightily in your favor, "11 seasons where the Jets are competitive" sounds great, but they could also be 11 seasons, like the last 11, where we mostly suck.  There is no guarantee on that side of the devil's bargain.

Similarly, those 10 non-playoff seasons will, of course, not be great because we won't make the postseason, but they could be winning seasons in every year, they just can't be playoff seasons.  So you've changed the terms on both sides.

All in fun, of course, but we should if answering the OP question, stick to what's on offer, not what we want to be on offer.

[Smashmouth]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

I'll use a real-world example close to my own heart:

The Washington Nationals won the World Series in 2019.  An event I was there attending games for all season long, and also attended one game of each round of, including a home World Series game.  It may be the best sports moment(s) of my sports fan life to-date.  I would not trade it for anything.

Since then, the Nats have gone 26-34, 65-97, 55-107, 71-91 and are 39-45 so far in 2024.  Five years of pretty much basement-dwelling and rebuilding.  I've attended my usual 10-12 games each of those years, and enjoyed doing so.

Would I trade away the magic and joy of the 2019 World Series title, to maybe have a shot at the playoffs or more in 2025-2030?  No.  The title is real, it can never be taken away from us fans or the city.  There was never any guarantee we'd be good in the future years anyway.

The devil only makes bargains he knows will screw you.  Only ONE team wins a title every year.  So his bargain is really this:

1. Guaranteed Super Bowl win followed by ten non-playoff years.

2. Unknown outcomes over the next 11 seasons, which could ALSO be 11 more non-playoff seasons, or playoff 1-and-out seasons, or AFCCG losses, or Super Bowl losses.

This is an easy choice, don't let the gamblers fallacy fool you.  Take the guaranteed title, and then live with the cost.  Don't gamble that the Jets, of all teams, will be that ONE team over the next ten years.  The odds are very low they would be.  Just look at all the years since 1969/1970 for proof of that.

Take the title, enjoy it to the absolute maximum, make it a life moment you would cherish forever, and then follow along till the price is paid.

Oh yeah :? Tell me how Joe Willy is screwed 

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

All the time in the world wont change 27 world championships and 58 playoff appearances . Oh and yeah we beat the Mets in one of those world series.  You can have your 2 precious beatdowns. Just to add to your Met fan misery we won 7 world series while the Mets existed. Mets fans are now probably reduced to rooting for the Yankees not to win the world series rather than winning one themselves.

Who cares, we’re 2-0 this year.  
Here’s a clue, don’t bring up Yankee nonsense when your team was embarrassed in their series vs the Mets if you don’t want to hear it.  I don’t give a damn about Yankee championships from the 1920’s 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Gee, I don't know. This Satan fella seems pretty reasonable.

He certainly seems to be a man of wealth and taste.

[UntouchableCrew]

52 minutes ago, Warfish said:

All well and good, but that's not the bargain on the table.  Changing the terms changes the question.

What is on offer is:

1. A guaranteed Super Bowl win in 2024, followed by a guaranteed ten non-playoff seasons.

2. 11 seasons of whatever the Jets would otherwise be, good, bad, great, horrible, playoffs, no-playoffs.  i.e. what we already have.

Your scenario changes the terms mightily in your favor, "11 seasons where the Jets are competitive" sounds great, but they could also be 11 seasons, like the last 11, where we mostly suck.  There is no guarantee on that side of the devil's bargain.

Similarly, those 10 non-playoff seasons will, of course, not be great because we won't make the postseason, but they could be winning seasons in every year, they just can't be playoff seasons.  So you've changed the terms on both sides.

All in fun, of course, but we should if answering the OP question, stick to what's on offer, not what we want to be on offer.

Sure, but this whole thing is just a thought exercise for discussion about the nature of fandom and what a championship would mean. I'm not contractually obligated to stay within the parameters of the question.

That said, I don't think I'd sign up for ten consecutive losing seasons voluntarily so I'd roll the dice and forego the championship.

[UntouchableCrew]

1 hour ago, greenwichjetfan said:

 

We must be around the same age. Your entire post is exactly how I feel. 

Haha yeah, I think we agreed on this awhile back in a similar thread.

And I agree age is a factor here. If I were 70 and my kids were grown I think I might go for the title.

[Warfish]

9 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'm not contractually obligated.....

Lol, I liked that line. 😆

[Panzer Division Marduk]

17 hours ago, Satan said:

Dear JetNation,

Greetings from the depths of the Underworld! I am Lucifer, the Prince of Darkness, the ruler of all things sinister,

 

How's Don Shula doing? 

[greenwichjetfan]

.

[JKlecko]

17 hours ago, Trotter said:

My mother in law has joined jetnation?

Freaking hilarious!

[Warfish]

Big talk bragging about regular season MLB wins, lol, now that's funny.

[JKlecko]

6 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Like the series last week?  
That kind of beat down?

Yeah, you're lucky that a bunch of the Yankees are either injured or have hit a slump.  If you had played the Yankees back in May/early June they'd have shut out the Mets every game and lit up the scoreboard themselves.

[JKlecko]

No dice.  Satan, you're the Father of All Lies.  You cheat and renege and point out some small print all the time.  You're not honorable and don't live up to your deals.  You can put your deal where the sun don't shine.