My take on Joe Douglas, and his future with the Jets.

[kmnj]

this is a results business-Joe has had terrible results-he picked the players and he picked the coach-to me it is very simple-make the playoffs and extend him-if they team busts for ANY REASON you fire him-at some point you have to freaking win games. Enough with the excuses as most of the excuses are a result of what Joe did.   

Joes incompetence early on set this team back 3 years with his picks for Wilson, Becton and Mims

Joe has some nice pieces now-he should when are at the top of the draft ever year you should hit on players.

I think the Arod move was a mistake and Joe once again tied his future  to a bad option at QB-Arod is old, coming off a major injury, plays  on terrible turf and has 3 game run in 10 days-If I was Joe I would have kept Sam and traded for a draft haul or if he was convinced Sam sucked go hard after Lamar when he was out there...

when Joe walked in the door-he had sam bell robby crowder DT and Griffin and a bad line-to date he has not had an offense out produce what he was handed years later-  his oline has been terrible every year, his wr room has been terrible every single year outside of WR1 with Wilson.

I will give Joe credit on defense-the unit has some talent but I also know he had some talent when he took over -folks forget he had mutliple first round picks on that defense

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kmnj]

29 minutes ago, TBJ said:

Year	Record	AFC East Finish
2019	7-9	3rd of 4
2020	2-14	Last
2021	4-13	Last
2022	7-10	Last
2023	6-9	3rd of 4
Total	26-58	4 MORE YEARS!

you are NOT allowed to post the reality of the situation 

it is very simple get to the playoffs or get out

 

 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Scotty Wooty Doo Doo said:

Whats his record ? Case closed ,, No extension unless we go deep in the playoffs .

Case closed only to those incapable of looking at the reasons behind a record and see it as an end all in a vacuum.
They make the playoffs he’s getting extended.  
Bet on it now.
 

[OilfieldJet]

Playoffs or JD exits.

[Alka]

1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

To each their own I suppose, but if that's your predetermined opinion then the rest is no more than pure conjecture.

My opinion is not predetermined.  It is based on the present and recent past.  This roster is loaded, and we have a roster that has a blended young group as well as veteran players.  Joe Douglas had filled the holes, and the roster as it stands now is better than any roster the Jets have put on the field in well over a decade.  

The players play, and the coaches coach.  It is now in their hands to do their part for success.  For me, JD has done his part.

[Claymation]

59 minutes ago, TBJ said:

Year	Record	AFC East Finish
2019	7-9	3rd of 4
2020	2-14	Last
2021	4-13	Last
2022	7-10	Last
2023	6-9	3rd of 4
Total	26-58	4 MORE YEARS!

They were 7-10 last year. 6-9 equals 15 games they played 17 last year, I believe.

Curious did you want the Jets to tank for a better draft slot last year? Or was that solely 80?

[kmnj]

27 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Case closed only to those incapable of looking at the reasons behind a record and see it as an end all in a vacuum.
They make the playoffs he’s getting extended.  
Bet on it now.
 

the reasons are simple

the players on the roster Joe put together and his hand picked coach did not play well enough with win games or execute well enough to win games

If he gets to the playoffs that means he has achieved positive results and the team is heading in the correct direction-an extension is warranted then-if he fails to get to the playoffs it would mean another year with poor results and he should be terminated

 

 

 

[Claymation]

4 minutes ago, OilfieldJet said:

Playoffs or JD exits.

But Saleh stays because...slogans?

WooHoo!

[T0mShane]

If all the GMs from every non-playoff team from last season came available and you owned a team that needed a new GM, Joe Douglas probably doesn’t even make your interview list. 

[Alka]

10 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

So he gets no credit for building a team so strong that it’s extremely difficult to draft a kid who will start.  

Great answer!  By the way, the last time Tyron Smith played in all 16 games of the season was in 2015.  That is 9 years ago!!

In 2016:  13 games played

2017       13 games played

2018       13 games played

2019        13 games played

2020        2 games played

2021         11 games played

2022          4 games played

2023         13 games played

Unless my math is wrong, the Jets will play 17 games this season.  The last time Tyron played in more than 13 games is 9 years ago.

Which means that for at least 4 games, we need to play another Offensive Left Tackle that will keep Aaron Rodgers upright.

Drafting Olu was not only the correct move, it was the smart move!  I have said it over and over again well before the draft.  And oh, by the way, Morgan Moses missed more than several games last year with injuries.  Putting Olu at right tackle if we need him, is not a bad move.

[Bleedin Green]

1 minute ago, Alka said:

My opinion is not predetermined.  It is based on the present and recent past.  This roster is loaded, and we have a roster that has a blended young group as well as veteran players.  Joe Douglas had filled the holes, and the roster as it stands now is better than any roster the Jets have put on the field in well over a decade.  

The players play, and the coaches coach.  It is now in their hands to do their part for success.  For me, JD has done his part.

So in other words, your opinion is actually predetermined.

This roster is still dependent on a number of gambles made on a variety of aging, injury-prone, and/or unproven players at critical positions, yet some are already exonerating the person entirely responsible for those decisions even if they turn out to blow up in the Jets' faces yet again.

[Claymation]

1 minute ago, kmnj said:

the reasons are simple

the players on the roster Joe put together and his hand picked coach did not play well enough with win games or execute well enough to win games

If he gets to the playoffs that means he has achieved positive results and the team is heading in the correct direction-an extension is warranted then-if he fails to get to the playoffs it would mean another year with poor results and he should be terminated

 

 

 

If the "K" is silent in your name do you pronounce your name as Minja, as in a Ninja from Minnesota.

If so, do you know Haason Reddick? He dresses up as a Samurai in his spare time. 

[slats]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

If all the GMs from every non-playoff team from last season came available and you owned a team that needed a new GM, Joe Douglas probably doesn’t even make your interview list. 

I don’t think even you believe that. I think he gets scooped up in a heartbeat. 

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, BreeceHallofFame said:

We literally have the best roster in football

We have the best roster in the CFL.

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

I don’t think even you believe that. I think he gets scooped up in a heartbeat. 

My money is on this too.  I think JD gets another GM job.  If Saleh screws this year up, though, I think he's done as a HC in the NFL.

[Alka]

2 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

So in other words, your opinion is actually predetermined.

This roster is still dependent on a number of gambles made on a variety of aging, injury-prone, and/or unproven players at critical positions, yet some are already exonerating the person entirely responsible for those decisions even if they turn out to blow up in the Jets' faces yet again.

Unproven players?  Really?  Is our QB unproven.  How about the guys on the Offensive line?  Running back?  Our #1 and #2 receivers?  How about our Pro bowl players at all 3 levels of the defense.  Quinnen Williams, Quincy Williams and Sauce Gardner? What critical positions are you talking about anyway?  

We also have depth, so that if our left tackle goes down, we have perhaps the best left tackle coming out of college to insert.  If Rodgers goes down, we have a damn good backup if needed.  

I think the gambles are there, but more limited this year than in the past.  Why do I say this?  Because this year we are cutting players who are ending up on other teams rosters, like the kick returner that we were going to cut, but traded him to Buffalo to be on their roster.  

[Alka]

14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If all the GMs from every non-playoff team from last season came available and you owned a team that needed a new GM, Joe Douglas probably doesn’t even make your interview list. 

So, what you are saying is that he gets hired without even an interview!!  I didn't realize that you were so high on JD!!  Welcome to the club!!

[Alka]

12 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

We know what the team is without a good qb. We saw last yr. Drafting a franchise qb at 2 overall, and putting all your weight behind him for 3 years, usually would sink a gm. The rodgers situation was pure luck, and very strong good gm work in Green Bay.  If Green Bay didn’t have a very good gm who drafted Love and let him develop on bench, they wouldn’t have let Rodgers go. It was luck most teams were not going to fight for rodgers. He wanted to play for Saleh/hackett. Vet qbs do not come to a team because they like a gm ha. The D was built mostly by Saleh’s endorsements. JD has been the Co-signer to what Saleh wanted to build on D. JD primary task was to build a strong OL. That was his supposed specialty. He definitely didn’t do that. That along with Zach Wilson disaster, would have got him easily fired if Rodgers didn’t come to his rescue. Bottom line is both Saleh and JD have a lot to prove still. No more excuses this yr. 

There is too much to unpack here, but I will respond to your main point, and that is of the QB.  If the Jets weren't "all in" on Aaron Rodgers, we would have gotten someone like Minshew, or one of the veteran QB's that have moved to other teams, and are starting for them.  

They would have also had their original 1st round pick from last year, they would have had their other 2nd round pick from last year, and they would have had their 2nd round pick from this year.  

There would have been a lot of moving parts that would have been different than what is happening now with the Jets.  And to top it off, the Jets would not have been without a QB last year, since "luck: as you call it, would have been "better luck" if we didn't have Rodgers last year, and had a QB that would not have gone down after 4 plays, and the outcome may have been different.

[jamesr]

1 hour ago, slats said:

I wouldn’t discount this as a possibility. While I suspect that Saleh is a much better coach than his record, I’m also more skeptical of him than I am of Douglas. He has a lot more to prove. No one prays for Rodgers’ health at night more than he does. 

I don’t think so. My understanding at the time was that Saleh’s contract was for five years specifically to line it up with the remainder of JD’s contract. 

From Wikipedia : 

On June 7, 2019, Douglas signed a six-year contract to become the general manager of the New York Jets.

On January 14, 2021, Saleh signed a five-year contract to become the head coach of the New York Jets

So Douglas expires in June 2025, and Saleh's in Jan 2026. June is obviously a bit of an odd end-date, as he'll either be let go or extended in Jan, but he is still 1 football season short of where Saleh is. Though realistically - if Joe goes, so does Saleh, he just gets a better payoff in that case.

 

[T0mShane]

22 minutes ago, slats said:

I don’t think even you believe that. I think he gets scooped up in a heartbeat. 

Why? Because he paid for two veteran players in Rodgers and Tyron Smith that nobody else wanted? Because he didn’t **** up a draft where he had two top ten picks? I get that people are over their skis a bit because of this year’s roster, but this is a short-term, very expensive astroturf job covering up five years of setting a lot of money and picks on fire. 

[TBJ]

35 minutes ago, Claymation said:

They were 7-10 last year. 6-9 equals 15 games they played 17 last year, I believe.

Curious did you want the Jets to tank for a better draft slot last year? Or was that solely 80?

Correction made.

I think they did a pretty good job of tanking on their own... Who was the backup QB?

[Claymation]

27 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If all the GMs from every non-playoff team from last season came available and you owned a team that needed a new GM, Joe Douglas probably doesn’t even make your interview list. 

You seriously believe that? 

He would be my 1st call.

[slats]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Why? Because he paid for two veteran players in Rodgers and Tyron Smith that nobody else wanted? Because he didn’t **** up a draft where he had two top ten picks? I get that people are over their skis a bit because of this year’s roster, but this is a short-term, very expensive astroturf job covering up five years of setting a lot of money and picks on fire. 

Because he took over a team that was complete garbage, despite being overpaid, tore it down, absorbed a lot of cap pain, and was fielding a playoff caliber roster in just a couple years. This years roster at its core is drafted players on rookie deals. It’s neither short-term nor very expensive. Tyron Smith counts as $2.9M against the cap. The man is good at his job. This is a better roster than the Tanny-Rex teams that were strong in their starting lineups but had no depth at all. This team is deep. 

[slats]

19 minutes ago, jamesr said:

From Wikipedia : 

On June 7, 2019, Douglas signed a six-year contract to become the general manager of the New York Jets.

On January 14, 2021, Saleh signed a five-year contract to become the head coach of the New York Jets

So Douglas expires in June 2025, and Saleh's in Jan 2026. June is obviously a bit of an odd end-date, as he'll either be let go or extended in Jan, but he is still 1 football season short of where Saleh is. Though realistically - if Joe goes, so does Saleh, he just gets a better payoff in that case.

 

Okay… ? I don’t really consider Wiki to be a “source,” and have no idea if their info is accurate or not. My understanding this entire time has been that both men are in the last year of their deals. I haven’t seen any mention (except here) showing Saleh with another year left on his contract after this one. 

[jamesr]

1 minute ago, slats said:

Okay… ? I don’t really consider Wiki to be a “source,” and have no idea if their info is accurate or not. My understanding this entire time has been that both men are in the last year of their deals. I haven’t seen any mention (except here) showing Saleh with another year left on his contract after this one. 

That was what I thought initially - that both were on the same "end date", last year of contracts and all that.

I'll see if I can find anything more authoritative. Trouble is any search for "Joe Douglas" and "contract" brings up 101 stories about Hasson bloody Reddick ... and I'm sick of that already!   

[slats]

1 minute ago, jamesr said:

That was what I thought initially - that both were on the same "end date", last year of contracts and all that.

I'll see if I can find anything more authoritative. Trouble is any search for "Joe Douglas" and "contract" brings up 101 stories about Hasson bloody Reddick ... and I'm sick of that already!   

I don’t think it matters. I think regardless of Saleh’s contractual status, he’s on much thinner ice than JD. 

[JKlecko]

3 hours ago, Claymation said:

I don't foresee JD going the draft route with a QB again and giving him the keys of the castle. I see them grabbing a veteran starting QB to take the reigns from Aaron. Just my Humble opinion.

That makes sense, but how often does a quality veteran QB become available? 99% of the time, they are JAGs, and a JAG isn't going to help the Jets.  The problem is that unless the offensive coaching staff changes/improves dramatically, they still won't be able to develop a young QB, so they'll be forced to go with JAGs, and they're never going to win a SB with a JAG QB.

[bicketybam]

1 minute ago, slats said:

I don’t think it matters. I think regardless of Saleh’s contractual status, he’s on much thinner ice than JD. 

I'm still waiting to see Saleh coach a season with a competent offense and more importantly, a competent QB. If Rodgers plays the vast majority of the games, I think we will have a much better idea of how good or bad of a coach Robert Saleh is.

@TuscanyTile2 Feel free to reply with either a stair running gif or a golf gif 😅

[nycdan]

37 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Why? Because he paid for two veteran players in Rodgers and Tyron Smith that nobody else wanted? Because he didn’t **** up a draft where he had two top ten picks? I get that people are over their skis a bit because of this year’s roster, but this is a short-term, very expensive astroturf job covering up five years of setting a lot of money and picks on fire. 

I've seen that "you can't screw up when you have two top-10 picks" argument a few times.

So let's debunk that.

1) IND had the 1-2 picks in the draft in 1992.  They took two absolute busts.  

2) NYG had two top-10 picks in the same draft in 2022 as us.  They took Thibs and Neal.  Neal is looking bad.  Thibs is not as good as the guy we took at 26. 

It's actually happened more than a few times in draft history, and more often than not, at least one of the two picks was not great.  

So look at this specific draft.  Six players total made a pro bowl so far.  Two were ours and Garrett Wilson clearly deserves to be a third.  Look at how many picks did not pan out as well as guys taken later at their positions.  Travon Walker at 1.  Stingley at 3.  Thibs at 5.  Ekwonu at 6.  Neal at 7.  London at 8.  Cross at 9.  And the list keeps going.

Meanwhile, JD took the best CB, the best WR, and moved up to 26 for probably the 2nd best DL (I'll give Hutchinson props at 2).  Moving up for Breece was the cherry on top.

Finally, I will add that JD HAD those picks because he worked trades to get there.  Jamal and Darnold being the big moves.  JD didn't just "not f*** up this draft.  He crushed it.

Whatever you think of JD overall, the 2022 draft, including all of the actions leading up to it, were a masterpiece.  Probably not hyperbole to say one of the 10 best draft classes in NFL history with potential to move up in that list.

Yes, it averages down with some of his other drafts that were far less productive.  But many GMs never have a 'good' draft.  We have been witness to two of them just before JD arrived.  I'll take the guy who at least has good and bad over the guys that are just awful all the time.  Plenty of active NFL GMs are far worse at team building than JD.

 

 

[JKlecko]

3 hours ago, Claymation said:

Let me ask you this, if you and your team accomplished something that your company hadn't done in over a decade, would you settle for a 1 year extension?

Saleh should be thankful to still have a HC job.  He easily could have been fired elsewhere.  To some extent, the same goes for JD.  Saleh doing his job one year out of 4-5 doesn't cut it, regardless of how long it's been since the company did what is expected.  JD has been doing his job better, but it's been very uneven.  Great moves (trades and FA signings) and busted draft picks, bad FA signings, dumb decisions.  One never knows what one is going to get from JD from one minute to the next.  Even if one views JD as being far superior in the work he has done towards achieving that goal that hasn't been achieved in over a decade, he still hired the HC.  Also, it isn't like the team has had 8-8 finishes (before the season expanded to 17 games), or 9-8 or 8-9.  They have lost a lot more than they have won.  JD still hasn't found our future QB. Where would the Jets be if Rodgers hadn't become available and been willing to play for the Jets? 

[Jetsplayer21]

9 hours ago, JKlecko said:

You don't know that the D was built mostly by Saleh's endorsements.  For the draft, JD has everyone work independently and come up with whom they think the team should draft.  Then they sit down, discuss, and come to a consensus.  Based on what I've read, much of the time they all agree on whom they should draft and what their priorities should be. I have mixed feelings about that.  One one hand, I think it's good that JD involves the CS, and it keeps them all on the same page, but JD is the boss, and the buck stops with him. At times I think he should make the final call, even if it's diametrically opposed to what the CS wants.

I agee that both Saleh and JD still have a lot to prove.  For JD to stay, imo he has to cut out the stupid decisions and big mistakes.  For Saleh to stay, imo the team must win at least 10 games, he must stop coaching so conservatively, playing not to lose, and be more aggressive, and do a better job of clock and game management.  The team must play smart, hard, disciplined football. If not, he should go.

Sauce and Garrett Wilson were obviously picks. For positions of need, and every expert mock draft had them going where they were picked, or even before. The Will McDonald pick had Saleh written all over it. It was a major reach by all accounts, and low down on the list of immediate needs. It’s obvious JD’s board fell apart, and he didn’t know what to do. He tried to trade down, when nobody bit he gave that pick to Saleh. We all know Saleh loves a deep DL rotation. Nice luxury, but when your offense was last in the league, your top pick has to be O there.
     We saw the same with MT with Rex. Coples, ect. Every top pick other than Sanchez was D. Rex did well coaching the team MT/mangini built, but when he got his paws on the picks and moves, team went downhill each yr. Mangini was a better gm than coach. I don’t think Rex would have signed off on top picks dbrick and mangold. He would have pushed for 1 ( or 2) of those picks to be D. But rex did take almost exact same 20 something ranked D in 08, to number 1 overall. That’s pretty impressive. Maybe jets should have fired MT and made mangini gm ha. 

[Alka]

12 hours ago, Cyberjet said:

Interesting take. How do you determine what is the effectiveness of a GM or the coach.

I think that there are a lot of parts to answer your question.  My feelings on the effectiveness of a GM:

1. Identifying the needs of the team in the short term and long term.  

In the short term, this roster appears to be loaded.  Nothing more to be said here.  In the long term, I think you have to look at key positions on the team.  QB- I love the guy we just drafted this year,  and at least for me, believe that Rodgers may very well play another year after this one.  I like what JD said about drafting a QB each and every year, to have a real pipeline at QB.  We won't know about Travis until next year, but I'm hopeful, and believe that JD will not repeat the mistake he made with drafting a QB like Zach in the future. O line:  The key position here is left tackle, and we should have Olu here for the next decade.  Tippman is a youngster, and should solidify the center position for years to come.  Simpson is back after this year at left guard, and is a young player.  Wide receiver:  After Wilson, we have question marks for the future after this year, IMO.  On defense, we have some young players at every level; players that I believe will be prt of this team for years to come.  

2.  Handling the Salary Cap

If you look at the salary cap for each NFL team, the Jets are in the 5th best place for total CAP for 2025.  And that is saying something, since the Jets roster is loaded for this year.

I believe that JD has made some bad decision in the past, but has turned this around for the positive.  After this season, I think the Jets will have lots of room to resign key players, and have no terrible contracts to be saddled with on the books.  The arrow is pointing up for JD in this area.  Many aging players are on 1 year deals, so nothing to complain about.  

3. Drafting quality players and finding talent in the Undrafted market, as well as other teams castoffs.  

You can say this is a mixed bag for JD, but I think that JD has done a quality job in the recent past.  I still can't believe how only 3 years ago, he managed to draft with his first 4 players, 4 pro-bowl players.  Sauce, Wilson, Johnson and Breece Hall.  This draft has helped transform this team.  Quincy Williams was a cast off, and is now one of the very best young linebackers in the NFL.  Not to mention we just kept 3 Undrafted players to make our 2024 roster on the D line.  That is really great work.  JD Reed was a player that JD brought on, and he is one of the young best DBs in the NFL to play opposite Sauce.  We brought on a Undrafted kick returner that we were going to cut, but were able to trade him for draft capital to the Bills.  All very good work IMO.

4.  Trades

For me, I love JD with his trades.  Jamal Adams will go down as one of the best trades the Jets have ever made in their history.  Aaron Rodgers-  we will be able to answer this question after the season.

I am a fan of who JD is now as a GM.  Again, he has made many mistakes, but for me, the arrow is pointing way up on Joe Douglas.

[Jetsplayer21]

3 hours ago, Claymation said:

Let me ask you this, if you and your team accomplished something that your company hadn't done in over a decade, would you settle for a 1 year extension?

Lol. So because past GMs, and JD for 5 years, have been so bad we should reward him because he isn’t the worst anymore? lol. Time to set the bar higher and stop with the loser mentality. No participation trophies , 14th place ribbon attitude. 

[Claymation]

41 minutes ago, TBJ said:

Correction made.

I think they did a pretty good job of tanking on their own... Who was the backup QB?

Are you asking me because you don't know? There is a whole thread dedicated to him, you should check it out.

[TuscanyTile2]

12 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

I'm still waiting to see Saleh coach a season with a competent offense and more importantly, a competent QB. If Rodgers plays the vast majority of the games, I think we will have a much better idea of how good or bad of a coach Robert Saleh is.

@TuscanyTile2 Feel free to reply with either a stair running gif or a golf gif 😅

Only if I have your permission.