Jet/BosoxFan Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 You wanna talk about the QUINTESSENTIAL case for statistics being misleading, I present to you, Alex Rodriguez as Exhibit A. It's inconceivableable that Arod (at 29) can be the youngest player ever to reach 450 homers on his 2000th hit yet and still be such an insufferable disappointment! He has been rendered literally helpless at third base defensively and he has left the population of a small country on the basepaths since joining the Yankees. It shows that not only anything that can go wrong will go wrong, but that there's no correlation between statistics and ability to perform when it counts. Thats why its laughable that this clown got the 2005 MVP and Big Papi did not. As the saying goes and it's so true, statistics are for losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Player A-Player of the Month for May; 21 HRs, 71 RBI, 54 Runs, 9 SB, .280 AVG 383 OBP .504 Slugging Player B; now 2nd in his league's MVP race; 21 HRs, 79 RBI, 43 Runs, 11 SB, .315 AVG .388 OBP, .574 Slugging A-Rod's going through a bad slump. He will get better. And when he does, look out. 2 1/2 games will melt. Player A is A-Rod(18 errors); Player B is David Wright(11 errors). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiguelBormand Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Player A-Player of the Month for May; 21 HRs, 71 RBI, 54 Runs, 9 SB, .280 AVG 383 OBP .504 Slugging Player B; now 2nd in his league's MVP race; 21 HRs, 79 RBI, 43 Runs, 11 SB, .315 AVG .388 OBP, .574 Slugging A-Rod's going through a bad slump. He will get better. And when he does, look out. 2 1/2 games will melt. Player A is A-Rod(18 errors); Player B is David Wright(11 errors). ??? You fail to mention that David Wright has been off the hook in the clutch whereas A-Rod has been completely and utterly and totally atrocious. Not to mention his fielding. I know JetBosox is just trying to incite some flames over here, but I still have to support him and say he's right. I really hate the term "stat padder" because it's almost like trying to put a negative spin on a good thing which is accumulating stats, but A-Rod has become the definition of it. He hits home runs early in games when they dont count, and strikes out with the bases loaded late in games when it does count. Yankee fans have every right to be confused and angry. Granted, ARod is on his way to some amazing stats if he can manage to fix his head, which seems more and more unlikely lately. Oh: I was gonna add... Last year's MVP was a joke, everyone knew it while it was happening. A-Rod only won because Papi doesnt play the field... which I have to agree with JetBosox... Come on.. this is baseball, not North American slam-ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 You wanna talk about the QUINTESSENTIAL case for statistics being misleading, I present to you, Alex Rodriguez as Exhibit A. It's inconceivableable that Arod (at 29) can be the youngest player ever to reach 450 homers on his 2000th hit yet and still be such an insufferable disappointment! He has been rendered literally helpless at third base defensively and he has left the population of a small country on the basepaths since joining the Yankees. It shows that not only anything that can go wrong will go wrong, but that there's no correlation between statistics and ability to perform when it counts. Thats why its laughable that this clown got the 2005 MVP and Big Papi did not. As the saying goes and it's so true, statistics are for losers. where was papi in the clutch today? dude coulda won the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 where was papi in the clutch today? dude coulda won the game Ortiz doesn't need to be driving in runs when the division title is already wrapped up. He'll save it for October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet/BosoxFan Posted July 24, 2006 Author Share Posted July 24, 2006 Ortiz doesn't need to be driving in runs when the division title is already wrapped up. He'll save it for October. Im glad you brought that up, Real80. Because it is my opinion that the Mets will likely be there in October reppin' the NL as they have proven that they are the ONLY NL team that can hang with the big boys in the AL. So to all the JN.com Mets fans, I have but one thing to say to y'all: I guess that means we'll be seeing ya in October, boys. Only be advised that a little payback for 1986 might be coming your way. I cant wait to see Pedro-vs-Schilling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiguelBormand Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 I cant wait to see Pedro-vs-Schilling! I can. Pedro seems to have a soft spot for boston that he brings onto the mound with him. IT's like having a girl who is still in love with her ex bf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Im glad you brought that up, Real80. Because it is my opinion that the Mets will likely be there in October reppin' the NL as they have proven that they are the ONLY NL team that can hang with the big boys in the AL. So to all the JN.com Mets fans, I have but one thing to say to y'all: I guess that means we'll be seeing ya in October, boys. Only be advised that a little payback for 1986 might be coming your way. I cant wait to see Pedro-vs-Schilling! I must admit that a series that begins in Fenway would be a daunting task. But if it must be, it must be. The last time the Mets played in Fenway Park in the World Series, remember, they took 2 out of 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 I can. Pedro seems to have a soft spot for boston that he brings onto the mound with him. IT's like having a girl who is still in love with her ex bf Speaking of which, if the Mets make the World Series I am going to have to give serious consideration to letting Jermaine back. I always liked that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet/BosoxFan Posted July 24, 2006 Author Share Posted July 24, 2006 If you cared about your board half as much as I do...you'd bring Jermaine back yesterday or sooner! He was/is a genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Ortiz doesn't need to be driving in runs when the division title is already wrapped up. He'll save it for October. mhm, just like how he carried the Sawx into the World Series last october, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 If you cared about your board half as much as I do...you'd bring Jermaine back yesterday or sooner! He was/is a genius JetNation is my baby. I love it. As a parent we sometimes have to make tough choices. I replaced Jermaine with his cousin Miguel. Net effect is a wash!!! Welcome to the board "Miguel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 mhm, just like how he carried the Sawx into the World Series last october, right? he wasn't even good for one game lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 he wasn't even good for one game lol Yankee fans who try to say anything negative about David Ortiz's ability to hit in the clutch are doing nothing but embarrassing themselves. For Christ's sake, one hitter after another choked away the Yankees playoff series with the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, California, USA, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy last year. And after 2004, I'm amazed Yankee fans speak at all about the Red Sox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiguelBormand Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 JetNation is my baby. I love it. As a parent we sometimes have to make tough choices. I replaced Jermaine with his cousin Miguel. Net effect is a wash!!! Welcome to the board "Miguel" Who the hell is this "Jermaine" guy you keep bringing up? Anyway... The Red Sox are probably the team that scares me the most out of all the AL teams... dunno why, maybe cause we got swept... The Yankees dont scare me at all, for some reason I could see us taking a WS from them in 5 games, 6 max... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiguelBormand Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, California, USA, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy last year. you must mean the LAAoA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Yankee fans who try to say anything negative about David Ortiz's ability to hit in the clutch are doing nothing but embarrassing themselves. For Christ's sake, one hitter after another choked away the Yankees playoff series with the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, California, USA, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy last year. And after 2004, I'm amazed Yankee fans speak at all about the Red Sox. Clutch is a myth and means nothing year to year. As far as 04 goes that was alot more about the yankees then boston. One year dosn't change 86 years of domination either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 The Yankees dont scare me at all, for some reason I could see us taking a WS from them in 5 games, 6 max... Be careful what you wish for. If the yankees were even in the world series that would mean they have fixed their hitting and if they did that they would beat any NL team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Yankee fans who try to say anything negative about David Ortiz's ability to hit in the clutch are doing nothing but embarrassing themselves. For Christ's sake, one hitter after another choked away the Yankees playoff series with the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, California, USA, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy last year. And after 2004, I'm amazed Yankee fans speak at all about the Red Sox. 26 world series kinda has that effect on you but, just like sex, i wouldn't expect you to know that feeling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 26 world series kinda has that effect on you but, just like sex, i wouldn't expect you to know that feeling Owned much? POTW NOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavrik Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 26 world series kinda has that effect on you but, just like sex, i wouldn't expect you to know that feeling There are few outside of New York who care about your 26 world championships. But of course, I forgot that Yanks fans dont live in the past as I'm told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 26 world series kinda has that effect on you but, just like sex, i wouldn't expect you to know that feeling Wow, Yankee fans digging in the past to support their team and give creedance to it, how unique. Blackout, how did you ever make it through Prohibition, while still rooting for the Yankkes. Tell us about that sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmart28Coles87 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Ortiz doesn't need to be driving in runs when the division title is already wrapped up. He'll save it for October. Were 2.5 games out. Just another moronic mets fan sucking the blowsox fans ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shutout Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Wow, Yankee fans digging in the past to support their team and give creedance to it, how unique. Blackout, how did you ever make it through Prohibition, while still rooting for the Yankkes. Tell us about that sometime. Now,to be fair,Blackout was responding to a post ripping on the Yankees about the 2004 ALCS and 2005 ALDS,both in the past last time I checked. So were allowed to talk about the what happened to the Yankees in the past...as long as its ripping on them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 JetNation is my baby. I love it. As a parent we sometimes have to make tough choices. I replaced Jermaine with his cousin Miguel. Net effect is a wash!!! Welcome to the board "Miguel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Now,to be fair,Blackout was responding to a post ripping on the Yankees about the 2004 ALCS and 2005 ALDS,both in the past last time I checked. So were allowed to talk about the what happened to the Yankees in the past...as long as its ripping on them? I would say that events in teh last decade are for mor pertinent that events in teh last century. I have no problem with sport fans talking (boasting) about what their teams have done since they have hopped on the "bandwagon". 20 year olds claiming ownership to championships that occured in the 1920's rankle me to some degree. I am just an old fogey, I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shutout Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 I would say that events in teh last decade are for mor pertinent that events in teh last century. I have no problem with sport fans talking (boasting) about what their teams have done since they have hopped on the "bandwagon". 20 year olds claiming ownership to championships that occured in the 1920's rankle me to some degree. I am just an old fogey, I guess Fair enough....Blackout,go ahead and change that 26 to just 4...its still 2x more any other team has won in the last 10-20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiguelBormand Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 "The Good, Old, Yankees". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Nice of everybody to continue the bashing. Please remember: The Mets tried to sign A-Rod as a free agent. Remember? The Red Sox tried to trade for A-Rod. Remember? This is not ancient history. If either team had A-Rod, would you be bashing him for "only" hitting .280 with 20+ hrs and 70 some rbi? While admittedly in a terrible slump and plenty of season left? As for his not being "clutch" do all you Big Papi lovers remember that your own Bill James is one of the guys who says stats are stats and there is no "clutch"? A-Rod will be fine. If he isn't the Yanks will still make the playoffs. The Mets and Red Sox are both excellent teams, but all this jawing makes me sick. There is plenty of time left. It will be decided on the field. I really don't want to have to come back to these retarded posts in November and say remember when so-and-so said.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Nice of everybody to continue the bashing. Please remember: The Mets tried to sign A-Rod as a free agent. Remember? The Red Sox tried to trade for A-Rod. Remember? This is not ancient history. If either team had A-Rod, would you be bashing him for "only" hitting .280 with 20+ hrs and 70 some rbi? While admittedly in a terrible slump and plenty of season left? As for his not being "clutch" do all you Big Papi lovers remember that your own Bill James is one of the guys who says stats are stats and there is no "clutch"? A-Rod will be fine. If he isn't the Yanks will still make the playoffs. The Mets and Red Sox are both excellent teams, but all this jawing makes me sick. There is plenty of time left. It will be decided on the field. I really don't want to have to come back to these retarded posts in November and say remember when so-and-so said.....? The Mets never tried to sign A-Rod. They received the "book" that Boras had put together, and listened to parameters of contract and the demands that A-Rod would have ( I think a private tent of his own outside the stadium to hawk merchandise, was one of them). They politely declined negotiations with him, at that point. Whether that is "trying to sign him" , I think is dubious thought. My problem with AROD, as I have claimed here, is his post-season failures. His numbers decline SO sharply, that I think it tarnishes his regular season records, which are admittedly fantastic. Also, his team's failures in the playoffs also is a tarnish. He would receive that seem judgment if he was a Met, Cub or Astro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 The Mets never tried to sign A-Rod. They received the "book" that Boras had put together, and listened to parameters of contract and the demands that A-Rod would have ( I think a private tent of his own outside the stadium to hawk merchandise, was one of them). They politely declined negotiations with him, at that point. Whether that is "trying to sign him" , I think is dubious thought. My problem with AROD, as I have claimed here, is his post-season failures. His numbers decline SO sharply, that I think it tarnishes his regular season records, which are admittedly fantastic. Also, his team's failures in the playoffs also is a tarnish. He would receive that seem judgment if he was a Met, Cub or Astro The Mets had A-Rod and/or his agent in back before he signed the giant deal. They didn't like the money he was asking for and started yapping about all the requests in the press so the fans wouldn't get on them. They were one of the front runners at the time. They didn't step up to the plate because they didn't like his demands and couldn't match Texas. That is perfectly understandable and may have made good business and baseball sense, but it was NOT because they had any problems with A-Rod as a player. You don't like A-Rod's playoff performance fine, I'll keep him and take my chances with him at the plate in the playoffs. Which of the Mets has been a dominating playoff presence? Last year were you so happy to have the "clutch" Beltran (a playoff monster in '04) that you wouldn't have traded him for the choker A-Rod? If you were you are delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 The Mets had A-Rod and/or his agent in back before he signed the giant deal. They didn't like the money he was asking for and started yapping about all the requests in the press so the fans wouldn't get on them. They were one of the front runners at the time. They didn't step up to the plate because they didn't like his demands and couldn't match Texas. That is perfectly understandable and may have made good business and baseball sense, but it was NOT because they had any problems with A-Rod as a player. You don't like A-Rod's playoff performance fine, I'll keep him and take my chances with him at the plate in the playoffs. Which of the Mets has been a dominating playoff presence? Last year were you so happy to have the "clutch" Beltran (a playoff monster in '04) that you wouldn't have traded him for the choker A-Rod? If you were you are delusional. Why are you putting words in my mouth? Where did I mention AROD in comparison to any Met? All I said is that AROD's legacy is currently tarnished by his playoff performances. Please convince me otherwise. The Texas deal was not on teh table when teh Mets were talking to AROD. That came later. the Mets did not like the money, as I said, and as you reiterated. That is HARDLY them being in on negotiations with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Why are you putting words in my mouth? Where did I mention AROD in comparison to any Met? All I said is that AROD's legacy is currently tarnished by his playoff performances. Please convince me otherwise. The Texas deal was not on teh table when teh Mets were talking to AROD. That came later. the Mets did not like the money, as I said, and as you reiterated. That is HARDLY them being in on negotiations with him. 10 minutes ago you said the Mets didn't try to sign A-Rod and now you say they "were talking to AROD?" You say that having his agent come in and go over his list of extensive demands is HARDLY being in negotiations with him? It is EXACTLY being in negotiations with him. They didn't like the money. Fine. The money is what Texas gave him. IIRC, Boras asked for the world, knowing what money he had to fall back on and the Mets didn't like the money and brought up all the other junk to paint A-Rod as greedy and not look bad pulling out. Probably a smart move on the Mets part, but they were seriously considering him. Don't think Boras is dumb enough to have the Mets write him off without knowing the money was still coming. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, but you're going to bust on A-Rod who do you want to compare him to? He doesn't have a legacy yet, he's still playing and will probably be in the playoffs several more times before his career is over. The legacy you refer to is as what? One of the top 10 players of all time? Yes, for a top 10 player his playoff performance has been sub-par, that doesn't mean that I'd rather have Melky Cabrerra at the plate come October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 10 minutes ago you said the Mets didn't try to sign A-Rod and now you say they "were talking to AROD?" You say that having his agent come in and go over his list of extensive demands is HARDLY being in negotiations with him? It is EXACTLY being in negotiations with him. They didn't like the money. Fine. The money is what Texas gave him. IIRC, Boras asked for the world, knowing what money he had to fall back on and the Mets didn't like the money and brought up all the other junk to paint A-Rod as greedy and not look bad pulling out. Probably a smart move on the Mets part, but they were seriously considering him. Don't think Boras is dumb enough to have the Mets write him off without knowing the money was still coming. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, but you're going to bust on A-Rod who do you want to compare him to? He doesn't have a legacy yet, he's still playing and will probably be in the playoffs several more times before his career is over. The legacy you refer to is as what? One of the top 10 players of all time? Yes, for a top 10 player his playoff performance has been sub-par, that doesn't mean that I'd rather have Melky Cabrerra at the plate come October. Oh, ok. You have an odd way of stating things. First, you say he has no "legacy", and in the same paragraph place him in the top 10 players of all time. The only way I can compare a player is to look at what he has done, and not predict what he will do. That is not so difficult. With AROD, he is a HOFer as a regular season player, and a dud as a playoff performer. His teams "underachieve" in big spots. He is a part of that "legacy". Oh, and BTW "talking" and "negotiating" are 2 very different scenarios. Anyway, I don't see how this is cogent to any discussion anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Oh, ok. You have an odd way of stating things. First, you say he has no "legacy", and in the same paragraph place him in the top 10 players of all time. The only way I can compare a player is to look at what he has done, and not predict what he will do. That is not so difficult. With AROD, he is a HOFer as a regular season player, and a dud as a playoff performer. His teams "underachieve" in big spots. He is a part of that "legacy". Oh, and BTW "talking" and "negotiating" are 2 very different scenarios. Anyway, I don't see how this is cogent to any discussion anyway. Talking is negotiating. What did you expect them to do? Fax the press the demand and offer? I'll give you that it is not cogent to the discussion, other than that all the people bashing him would be leaping to his defense and probably vice versa. I don't believe that we can truly discuss his "legacy" until he's done playing. If you want to discuss his "legacy" now, you have to consider him a likely future HOF with a less than stellar playoff record. Does that mean that his stats are BS? RBIs are RBIs, I don't care when you get them 1st inning or 9th. May or September. He's a fraud because he hasn't been a huge performer in the clutch? Maybe they should deduct from his lifetime totals because some people on this board don't like when he produced the numbers. As I said before, most of the SABR guys don't really believe in clutch. They feel it is just numbers and luck of the draw. Even the best player makes out 7 times out of 10, with the small sample of playoff appearances it's easier to get skewed numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.