New York Post Article On Doug Jolley Trade

[YJF]

http://www.nypost.com/sports/jets/44990.htm

April 21, 2005 -- The Jets last night went back to a draft philosophy they executed with success last season: Rather than draft a player at a position of need and hope he works out, they traded for a proven commodity instead.

A year ago, the Jets, in serious need of help at receiver, traded their second-round draft pick to Tennessee for Justin McCareins, who became an immediate starter and was productive.

[PatsFanTX]

they traded for a proven commodity instead.

A proven commodity?

WTF does that mean?

Since when are 3rd-string TE's called a "proven commodity"?

[bitonti]

just cause a guy falls out of favor with a coaching change doesn't mean he's a bad player.

when Doug Jolley was a rookie the staff compared him to Jerry Rice as having the second best hands on the team!! he's not a scrub and he's more of a true Receiving threat than Watson/Graham/Fauria - he's not much of a blocker but then again neither is Heath Miller.

[Scott Dierking]

just cause a guy falls out of favor with a coaching change doesn't mean he's a bad player.

when Doug Jolley was a rookie the staff compared him to Jerry Rice as having the second best hands on the team!! he's not a scrub and he's more of a true Receiving threat than Watson/Graham/Fauria - he's not much of a blocker but then again neither is Heath Miller.

I honestly did not see much of his Raider days, but I liked him at BYU. He had very good pass route running abilities and knew how to get open.

It is a factor that he comes from a pass happy offense such as BYU's

[LionelRichie]

just cause a guy falls out of favor with a coaching change doesn't mean he's a bad player.

when Doug Jolley was a rookie the staff compared him to Jerry Rice as having the second best hands on the team!! he's not a scrub and he's more of a true Receiving threat than Watson/Graham/Fauria - he's not much of a blocker but then again neither is Heath Miller.

i hear that a lot about miller, where does the idea that he is a lousy blocker come from? i saw a couple of uva games this year but didn't really focus on him. in the highlights i saw on nfl network he absolutely dominated merriman from maryland who is supposed to be a blue chip d-end prospect.

the only thing of note about miller is that in the games i saw of him you really don't notice him - he just didn't stand out much.

[BwanaZulia]

In a weak draft a proven player player is a good trade for some low picks.

We shall see next year.

BZ

[FoxJet]

[PFSIKH]

In a weak draft a proven player player is a good trade for some low picks.

We shall see next year.

BZ

As with D-Rob trade was the price too high?

On one hand, Jolley's production is close to other first rounders drafted that year (Graham and Stevens).

On the other hand, a coach with an offense that has always been friendly to TEs, is letting a 3rd year TE go.

I think this is a good move. Jolley has been fairly productive and Dingleberry used both of his TEs last year, 33 and 25 catches for the top 2.

[PETROCK]

Forgive me but I'm a little slow on this topic because I just heard about the trade this morning while driving into work and all i have to say is that THIS IS THE F***ING STUPIDEST TRADE I'VE EVER HEARD OF!!!!

WTF WAS BRADWAY THINKING????

DID HE HAVE IT MADE UP HIS MIND THAT HE WAS GOING TO DRAFT HEATH MILLER, THEN HE THOUGHT WHICH MOVE HE WOULD BE RIDUCULED IN THE PRESS LESS FOR, THE DRAFT OF HEATH MILLER OR THIS STUPID TRADE???

I CAN'T BELIEVE HE IS THIS STUIPD!!! IF YOU'RE GOING TO TRADE DRAFT PICKS, TRADE THE 7TH AND 8TH NOT THE FIRST!!!

WAY TO GO BRADWAY...YOU F***ING IDIOT!!!

[JonEJet]

IF YOU'RE GOING TO TRADE DRAFT PICKS, TRADE THE 7TH AND 8TH NOT THE FIRST!!!

WAY TO GO BRADWAY...YOU F***ING IDIOT!!!

Uhh...there are no 8th rounders

Bradway is what??

[PETROCK]

Uhh...there are no 8th rounders

Bradway is what??

Ok so I didn't know how many rounds there are in the draft.

I don't eat, live, and drink football.

[Savage69]

Uhh...there are no 8th rounders

Bradway is what??

Ahhhh..I miss the Old Drafts from the 60's!!

Now that was a Draft!! Check out number 9 in

the Red shirt Draft..The Jets took the one and

only RK!! Now there was a TE for you!!

PS Jets took 3 QB's in the first 7 rds!!

1 from Den Namath, Joe QB Alabama

1 Nowatzke, Tom FB Indiana

2 Huarte, John QB Notre Dame

3 Biggs, Verlon DE Jackson State

4 Schweickert, Bob HB Virginia Tech

5 Sasser, Glenn DE North Carolina State

6 Hoovler, Don LB Ohio U.

7 Harris, Jim DT Utah State

7 from Oak Roberts, Archie QB Columbia

8 McCurdy, Rick DE Oklahoma

9 Sidle, Jimmy HB Auburn

10 Lambert, Frank P Mississippi

11 Gray, Jim DB Toledo

12 Berrington, John LB-C Iowa State

13 Utz, Sonny FB Virginia Tech

14 Plumlee, Gary DT-DE New Mexico

15 Burt, Jim DB Western Kentucky

16 Cartwright, Seth DT Prairie View A&M

17 Browning, Charles DB Washington

18 Choice to Denver - -

19 Dudek, Frank OG Xavier

20 Allen, Troy DB Western Michigan

Red Shirt Draft

1 Roland, Johnny HB Missouri

2 McGuire, John TE-DE Syracuse

3 Heidel, Jimmy DB Mississippi

4 Werl, Bob DE Miami, FL

5 Sauer, George WR Texas

6 Lindsey, Dale LB Western Kentucky

7 Barlow, Ron FB Kansas State

8 Mallendick, Bob OT Hillsdale

9 Kotite, Rich TE Wagner

10 Austin, Dave WR Georgia Tech

11 Marshall, Richard OT Stephen F. Austin

12 Screen, Pat QB LSU

[Warfish]

A proven commodity?

WTF does that mean?

Since when are 3rd-string TE's called a "proven commodity"?

Well, for one, evey time the PATIROTS pick one up.

This deal scream PATRIOTS all over it, and don't even pretend otherwise. Jets gain picks and a Starter and give up nothing more than a few spots (when the will likely draft the guy they want anyway, hence the move down in the first place).

Get a clue my hypocritical friend, this a a PATRIOTS team-first/depth-first move in every way.

[TomShane]

Let me guess: Cannizzaro. I don't even have to look. That Jet bootlick who has traded his soul for unlimited access--the Herm and Bradway apologist--the compulsive liar who said that "if Chad's shoulder is torn and the Jets are hiding it, I'll be very disappointed"--the idiot who called Herm Edwards a "top 5 coach in the NFL"--has ZERO credibility in any and all matters concerning the Jets. If he wants to tell me about where to find a good plate of pasta, I'll listen. Football? Not so much.

[GoJETS]

Yeah, but BB has a much better track record than TB.

Jolley is not a 3rd stringer and he is a proven commodity - proven to be an average TE. If they needed a TE so bad they should have re-signed Becht or made an effort to sign Marcus Pollard (who is a better TE than Jolley).

[Savage69]

This deal scream PATRIOTS all over it, and don't even pretend otherwise. Jets gain picks and a Starter and give up nothing more than a few spots (when the will likely draft the guy they want anyway, hence the move down in the first place).

Get a clue my hypocritical friend, this a a PATRIOTS team-first/depth-first move in every way

Right Fish..We can now Draft like the Pats..But

can we Coach like them?? Not from the HC Slot..

Hopefully Dinger and Hendu can do it alone!! :wink:

[MiamiJet]

Guys, did you ever consider that Heimerdinger wanted this guy for his offense?

Did you ever consider that Heimerdinger, who knows a thing or two about tight ends and receivers, did not like Heath Miller? This is insane. Give the man some credit. He tutored, and developed Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey, Derrick Mason, Drew Bennett, Tyrone Calico, McCareins, etc. Do you guys seriously think you know more than him?

Who are we to assume that Becht or Pollard would have fit in here? Jolley was a former qb, that played in a big time passing attack at BYU, right before Heimer left Denver. I am pretty sure that he scouted the kid, and has watched endless amounts of tape on him. Besides, we pick up a guy that was underutilized and is relatively signed for the next 3 years, at a good cost.

Pollard is old, and Becht? You guys can't be serious.

[PatsFanTX]

Well, for one, evey time the PATIROTS pick one up.

This deal scream PATRIOTS all over it, and don't even pretend otherwise. Jets gain picks and a Starter and give up nothing more than a few spots (when the will likely draft the guy they want anyway, hence the move down in the first place).

Get a clue my hypocritical friend, this a a PATRIOTS team-first/depth-first move in every way

Fish, I think the Nats are impacting your football brain. :wink:

First off, why didn't the Jets wait until they were OTC on Saturday to pull the trigger on this deal? There was absolutely no sense of urgency for this deal to be completed 3 days prior to the draft.

Is this a Patriots-like deal that you claim? You bet it is; but it's not done yet. Those lower-round picks need to be nailed by Bradway and company for this to tilt back to a good move by the Jets. How has Bradway's track record been with lower round picks over his career?

You had a 3-string, disgruntled TE that the Raiders desparately wanted to unload. Jets should have been in the drivers seat but they weren't.

Philosophically, the Jets went about this (moving down) in the right manner, but the price/value of the move is questionable at best.

[Warfish]

Well, the Pats should know about third stringers....your #1 RB was one when YOU traded for him.

And likely the deal would NOT have been available on draft day. What makes you think so surely that the Jets COULD have waited?

Yes, Bradway has to nail the 2 2nds and the 6th for this deal to be good, granted.

As for the Nats....first place (tie) Baby! At least for today. LOL!

[PatsFanTX]

And likely the deal would NOT have been available on draft day. What makes you think so surely that the Jets COULD have waited?

The Raiders were desparate to move Jolley, that's why. What other team 27-32 would have traded their 1st round pick for Jolley? Not one of them would.

That deal, or very, very similar, would have been avaialble to the Jets when they were OTC.

[Warfish]

The Raiders were desparate to move Jolley, that's why. What other team 27-32 would have traded their 1st round pick for Jolley? Not one of them would.

That deal, or very, very similar, would have been avaialble to the Jets when they were OTC.

For the last time: We did NOT trade our #1 for Jolly. We traded our #1 (and a #7) for Jolly, a Middle #2 and two #6's. That is world of difference.

And the Bengals were desperate to get rid of your RB too.

[jetgreen13]

i've seen him listed as low as 4.58 in the 40. anybody got the low down on that??

[Savage69]

And the Bengals were desperate to get rid of your RB too.

Not a Good comparison Fish..Dillon was a proven

RB the Pats got for their 2nd rd pick!! Jolly

is yet to prove himself! :wink:

[YJF]

I honestly did not see much of his Raider days, but I liked him at BYU. He had very good pass route running abilities and knew how to get open.

It is a factor that he comes from a pass happy offense such as BYU's

This guy can catch. Jolley in our west coast offense if he's healthy, is going to catch atleast 40 to 50 balls.

You got a young 2nd round draft pick TE who is a good athlete with great hands and runs good routes. He also is a high character player with experience in The WCO.

Judge this trade a year from now.

Bank on it. Write it down.

[YJF]

The Raiders were desparate to move Jolley, that's why. What other team 27-32 would have traded their 1st round pick for Jolley? Not one of them would.

That deal, or very, very similar, would have been avaialble to the Jets when they were OTC.

Once again, For The record, The Jets didn't trade their first round pick for Doug Jolley. If they did, I'd be going crazy right now like the rest of you maniacs.

They traded down 21 spots, picked up a starting TE who would have been no worse that a 3rd in this draft and added two more second day picks.

[TomShane]

This guy can catch. Jolley in our west coast offense if he's healthy, is going to catch atleast 40 to 50 balls.

You got a young 2nd round draft pick TE who is a good athlete with great hands and runs good routes. He also is a high character player with experience in The WCO.

Judge this trade a year from now.

Bank on it. Write it down.

He's going to catch 50 balls here when he caught 32 in an offense that threw the ball every down in 2002? And 27 in an offense that didn't even pretend to run?

That's like saying that if Maxman moved to New Guinea he'd shower more.

[GimmeShelter]

We need a forum or archive where predictions on this trade and things such as Lamont vs Curtis production next year can be pinned and looked back on.

[MiamiJet]

He's going to catch 50 balls here when he caught 32 in an offense that threw the ball every down in 2002? And 27 in an offense that didn't even pretend to run?

That's like saying that if Maxman moved to New Guinea he'd shower more.

Yes, TS, and I agree with YJF.

It's not easy to forcast what a player would do in a different offense, but you have to look a little deeper than the numbers.

Norv Turner required his TEs to block more in his offense. The Raiders were full of tight ends, including a rising Teyo Johnson and Courtney Anderson. The Raiders did throw the ball often, but more to their wideouts, and not the underneath stuff that Jolley would see more of here.

Jolley was asked to do different things in Oakland. His blocking was decent at best, which got him in Turner's doghouse. Ben Troupe had a good rookie campaign last season, despite being criticized for his blocking ability. Heimerdinger was able to use him effectively.

With Coles, McCareins and Cotchery/Chrebet being used in 3 wr sets, why do you find it hard to believe that Jolley can't be productive? Becht had numerous chances to make big plays and all he did was drop balls. Put Jolley in those situations and you will see far more first downs.

[YJF]

He's going to catch 50 balls here when he caught 32 in an offense that threw the ball every down in 2002? And 27 in an offense that didn't even pretend to run?

That's like saying that if Maxman moved to New Guinea he'd shower more.

Jolley wasn't used properly in Oakland. He was in a rotation system with Teyo Johnson and Courtney Anderson.

He didn't fit Norv Turner's scheme.

He fits our scheme and will be utilized differently here.

Jolley is the perfect fit for The West Coast Offense that Heimerdinger uses. Unlike Anthony Becht. Jolley will catch everything thrown his way.

Write it down now and hold me to the fire if I am wrong. If Jolley plays 16 games next season for The Jets. He will catch atleast 40 to 50 balls in this offense.

The Titans TE's caught 83 balls last season. That's a combination of Ben Troupe, Shad Meir and Erron Kinney.

40 in 16 games sounds about right for Jolley. He and Pennington are going to hit it off. Because Jolley is a really smart TE who runs clear route and catches the ball really well. Once they get their timing down. Jolley is going to help this offense especially in the red zone.

[TomShane]

Let me just say that I don't think Jolley is a bum. But he is what he is--he's a soft TE with nice hands who doesn't block.

BUT, you guys are saying that he was mis-used in Oakland by two different coaching staffs? Is that what you want to say? By Callahan who ran the WCO which features a TE and again by Norv Turner who made Jay Novacek a superstar? Dudes, that's a major reach, don't you think?

[YJF]

Let me just say that I don't think Jolley is a bum. But he is what he is--he's a soft TE with nice hands who doesn't block.

BUT, you guys are saying that he was mis-used in Oakland by two different coaching staffs? Is that what you want to say? By Callahan who ran the WCO which features a TE and again by Norv Turner who made Jay Novacek a superstar? Dudes, that's a major reach, don't you think?

Jolley was a rookie under The Callahan offense and actually played well.

You gotta remember Oakland had Jerry Rice, Tim Brown, Jerry Porter and Charlie Garner. Those were the guys they threw the ball to alot.

The WCO is a distribution offense where everyone gets involved. 30 catches from The TE position is not a bad stat actually.Especially if you have good WR's and a good run game. It really isn't. That number is going to go up with The Jets if Jolley plays and starts all 16 games.

Jolley didn't fit Norv's scheme. Callahan was out the door pretty fast.

If you are on a bad team with no WR's. You get alot more balls thrown your way. See Eric Johnson with The Niners last year. Plus your team is always trailing, So you have to abandon the run and throw all the time. Teams protect the deep area and allow you to complete the short stuff to kill clock when they have a big lead.

I like Eric Johnson too but that's how he had such absurd numbers last year.

[GoJETS]

Don't compare receiver stats from players on lousy teams and good teams. 49ers were lousy and their receivers are not as good as the Jets. They weren't a good running team and were behind a lot which means they pass the ball more. Same thing can be said with Tennessee to a point.

I still believe a blocking TE is more essential to the Jets offense, especially with losing McKenzie.

If the Jets had made the same trade with Oakland and gave them a 2nd rounder instead of a 1st and received a 3rd rounder instead of a 2nd it would have been a better deal. First rounder gives you a potential imopact player - Doug Jolley is not that type of player.

To say the Jets got a starter means nothing when you are weak at the position... Example, Pennington's shoulder requires more surgery and is out for the year, Feidler tears up his knee and Brooks Bollinger switches to baseball. Jets trade next years #1 to the Giants fo Jim Miller and a 3rd rounder. A good deal because we got a starting QB? I think not.