Defensive changes are in order

[Untouchable]

This defense is currently the worst in the league hands down.

We can't pressure the QB and can't stop the run to save our lives. Major changes are in order.

First off, Sutton needs to be canned ASAP. He simply doesn't fit the makeup of this coaching staff and seems too conservative. The Jets don't have dominant bigmen in the trenches or a top flight passrusher at OLB. The only way we'll be able to get pressure is to blitz and blitz often. It's exactly what we started doing after the Cleveland loss last year and that is what turned the defense around and helped us make a playoff push. Seriously, Mangini needs to dump Sutton and promote Dan Quinn to DC or just take over the defensive playcalling.

Coleman and Ellis are a solid pair of bookends but Robertson is god awful at NT. He can get penetration from time to time but that's not his job, his job is to occupy multiple blockers and stuff the middle, something he clearly can not do on a consistent basis. Pouha saw a lot more playing time against Miami and rightfully so. I really don't know why he hasn't unseated Dewayne as the starter in the middle.

The 3-4 defense all starts with the NT and ours is about 30 pounds undersized and more of a finesse player. You need a 330+ pound mauler at this position.

Our two starters at ILB are completely out of place in this system. Both Vilma and Barton get totally sidetracked and gobbled up by O-linemen. David Harris saw more playing time today and I really don't see why Mangini is dicking around having this kid ride the bench. He has shown the ability to fight off blockers and blow up the ballcarrier. His coverage skills have also been a pleasant surprise. Start this kid so we can atleast take a step in the right direction.

Hobson and Thomas are solid but we need a gamechanging passrusher. This has to be our #1 priority going into next offseason. If Baltimore somehow let's Terrell Suggs hit the open market, then our front office would be fools not to sign him. We're talking about a 25 year old playmaker who fits this defense to a tee. If he doesn't hit the open market, then we have to get a guy like Quentin Groves or Vernon Gholston in round 1 of the draft.

I can't really knock the secondary. Rhodes and Revis look to be future all-pros but David Barrett needs to get the f*ck outta Dodge. The guy has been horrible. Sit him, no better yet cut him and let Dyson take the #2 job.

Bottom line is I don't see any big improvements happening until the offseason and it will be the defense that holds us back this year.

[gangreenman]

This defense is currently the worst in the league hands down.

We can't pressure the QB and can't stop the run to save our lives. Major changes are in order.

First off, Sutton needs to be canned ASAP. He simply doesn't fit the makeup of this coaching staff and seems too conservative. The Jets don't have dominant bigmen in the trenches or a top flight passrusher at OLB. The only way we'll be able to get pressure is to blitz and blitz often. It's exactly what we started doing after the Cleveland loss last year and that is what turned the defense around and helped us make a playoff push. Seriously, Mangini needs to dump Sutton and promote Dan Quinn to DC or just take over the defensive playcalling.

Coleman and Ellis are a solid pair of bookends but Robertson is god awful at NT. He can get penetration from time to time but that's not his job, his job is to occupy multiple blockers and stuff the middle, something he clearly can not do on a consistent basis. Pouha saw a lot more playing time against Miami and rightfully so. I really don't know why he hasn't unseated Dewayne as the starter in the middle.

The 3-4 defense all starts with the NT and ours is about 30 pounds undersized and more of a finesse player. You need a 330+ pound mauler at this position.

Our two starters at ILB are completely out of place in this system. Both Vilma and Barton get totally sidetracked and gobbled up by O-linemen. David Harris saw more playing time today and I really don't see why Mangini is dicking around having this kid ride the bench. He has shown the ability to fight off blockers and blow up the ballcarrier. His coverage skills have also been a pleasant surprise. Start this kid so we can atleast take a step in the right direction.

Hobson and Thomas are solid but we need a gamechanging passrusher. This has to be our #1 priority going into next offseason. If Baltimore somehow let's Terrell Suggs hit the open market, then our front office would be fools not to sign him. We're talking about a 25 year old playmaker who fits this defense to a tee. If he doesn't hit the open market, then we have to get a guy like Quentin Groves or Vernon Gholston in round 1 of the draft.

I can't really knock the secondary. Rhodes and Revis look to be future all-pros but David Barrett needs to get the f*ck outta Dodge. The guy has been horrible. Sit him, no better yet cut him and let Dyson take the #2 job.

Bottom line is I don't see any big improvements happening until the offseason and it will be the defense that holds us back this year.

You know I was thinking....

If Ellis is our best DE, why don't we play him at LE instead of RE?

[mr nyjet]

mangenius should take over as defensive coordinator and send sutton back to the lbs, just like tuna took away the playcalling on offense from weis once before.

one sack in 3 games and can't stop the run in year two is inexcusable! in fact , it's pathethic.

[ECURB]

You know I was thinking....

If Ellis is our best DE, why don't we play him at LE instead of RE?

Its not that easy... seriously... the guy has been on that side for almost a decade...

[NIGHT STALKER]

This defense is currently the worst in the league hands down.

We can't pressure the QB and can't stop the run to save our lives. Major changes are in order.

First off, Sutton needs to be canned ASAP. He simply doesn't fit the makeup of this coaching staff and seems too conservative. The Jets don't have dominant bigmen in the trenches or a top flight passrusher at OLB. The only way we'll be able to get pressure is to blitz and blitz often. It's exactly what we started doing after the Cleveland loss last year and that is what turned the defense around and helped us make a playoff push. Seriously, Mangini needs to dump Sutton and promote Dan Quinn to DC or just take over the defensive playcalling.

Coleman and Ellis are a solid pair of bookends but Robertson is god awful at NT. He can get penetration from time to time but that's not his job, his job is to occupy multiple blockers and stuff the middle, something he clearly can not do on a consistent basis. Pouha saw a lot more playing time against Miami and rightfully so. I really don't know why he hasn't unseated Dewayne as the starter in the middle.

The 3-4 defense all starts with the NT and ours is about 30 pounds undersized and more of a finesse player. You need a 330+ pound mauler at this position.

Our two starters at ILB are completely out of place in this system. Both Vilma and Barton get totally sidetracked and gobbled up by O-linemen. David Harris saw more playing time today and I really don't see why Mangini is dicking around having this kid ride the bench. He has shown the ability to fight off blockers and blow up the ballcarrier. His coverage skills have also been a pleasant surprise. Start this kid so we can atleast take a step in the right direction.

Hobson and Thomas are solid but we need a gamechanging passrusher. This has to be our #1 priority going into next offseason. If Baltimore somehow let's Terrell Suggs hit the open market, then our front office would be fools not to sign him. We're talking about a 25 year old playmaker who fits this defense to a tee. If he doesn't hit the open market, then we have to get a guy like Quentin Groves or Vernon Gholston in round 1 of the draft.

I can't really knock the secondary. Rhodes and Revis look to be future all-pros but David Barrett needs to get the f*ck outta Dodge. The guy has been horrible. Sit him, no better yet cut him and let Dyson take the #2 job.

Bottom line is I don't see any big improvements happening until the offseason and it will be the defense that holds us back this year.

Here's the problem with our NT position...Mangini likes DROB. If I've read it once I've read it ten times, Mangini likes the lighter, quicker type of NT and DROB fits that mode. With that in mind, we have killed Vilma in the middle because he's just two light to take on O linemen.

Our guys were best suited to play the 4/3 and that's what we should have stayed with...we don't have the personnel to contend with the better teams as evident today...a dolphins team with one of the worst O lines in the league and it showed even they could have their way with our defense, in particular our guys in the trenches...if this were the Pats or Ravens again, we would have lost.

[madmike1]

Sutten's blitz packages are pathetic.

[gangreenman]

Sutten's blitz packages are pathetic.

No, its not the coaches, its that even when we send 7-8 guys the players cant get near the QB for at least 3-4 seconds after the snap.

[ECURB]

No, its not the coaches, its that even when we send 7-8 guys the players cant get near the QB for at least 3-4 seconds after the snap.

You dont think it has anything to do with how they are blitzing? lol... why even have coaches and schemes

[gangreenman]

You dont think it has anything to do with how they are blitzing? lol... why even have coaches and schemes

I dont care how they are blitzing, if you send 8 guys...One better get to the QB, its pure math.

[madmike1]

No, its not the coaches, its that even when we send 7-8 guys the players cant get near the QB for at least 3-4 seconds after the snap.

It IS the coaches. They are blitzing in the wrong holes.

[Jetheelz]

I agree about David Harris. That guy is a beast and needs to be out on the field as much as possible.

[ECURB]

I dont care how they are blitzing, if you send 8 guys...One better get to the QB, its pure math.

If only it were that easy....

[gangreenman]

If only it were that easy....

It should be...

On every pass there are tops 7 players blocking, meaning if we blitz 8 there still should be one guy that gets to the QB within AT MOST 3 seconds after the snap.

Its math, and i serously doubt the CS is sooo incredibly dumb that we have guys running into each other and knocking each other down during the blitz...

So no, this one's on the players, not the coaches.

[MTJ06]

How about something as simple as someone on our defense actually hitting somebody. The D just doesnt seem to play with any intensity, dont seem to be getting after people. I think Thomas Jones had the biggest hit of the day followed by Harris.

[Thai Jet]

Here's the problem with our NT position...Mangini likes DROB. If I've read it once I've read it ten times, Mangini likes the lighter, quicker type of NT and DROB fits that mode. With that in mind, we have killed Vilma in the middle because he's just two light to take on O linemen.

Our guys were best suited to play the 4/3 and that's what we should have stayed with...we don't have the personnel to contend with the better teams as evident today...a dolphins team with one of the worst O lines in the league and it showed even they could have their way with our defense, in particular our guys in the trenches...if this were the Pats or Ravens again, we would have lost.

You've hit the nail on the head ! We are playing a 3/4 with 4/3 personnel and it ain't workin.

[Kentucky Jet]

Here's the problem with our NT position...Mangini likes DROB. If I've read it once I've read it ten times, Mangini likes the lighter, quicker type of NT and DROB fits that mode. With that in mind, we have killed Vilma in the middle because he's just two light to take on O linemen.

Our guys were best suited to play the 4/3 and that's what we should have stayed with...we don't have the personnel to contend with the better teams as evident today...a dolphins team with one of the worst O lines in the league and it showed even they could have their way with our defense, in particular our guys in the trenches...if this were the Pats or Ravens again, we would have lost.

Agreed! When Herm came to us he had to play the cover 2 even though we did not have the personnel for it. He was panned by most Jets fans. Now ERIC seems to be getting away with the same type of attitude that HERM displayed. ERIC is alleged to be a defensive guru. How come he does not know that we suck on defense because we do not have the players to play his failed-with-the Jets- defensive scheme? TUNA could win with 11 guys direct from a Garbage truck! He played to their strengths and magnified them. He put them in the best position to display whatever skill they have. Unfortunately, ERIC does NOT see the light! ya can not put a round peg in a square hole ERIC! Wake up before another season rolls by and we are losers again!

[Sperm Edwards]

Agreed! When Herm came to us he had to play the cover 2 even though we did not have the personnel for it. He was panned by most Jets fans. Now ERIC seems to be getting away with the same type of attitude that HERM displayed. ERIC is alleged to be a defensive guru. How come he does not know that we suck on defense because we do not have the players to play his failed-with-the Jets- defensive scheme? TUNA could win with 11 guys direct from a Garbage truck! He played to their strengths and magnified them. He put them in the best position to display whatever skill they have. Unfortunately, ERIC does NOT see the light! ya can not put a round peg in a square hole ERIC! Wake up before another season rolls by and we are losers again!

I think Mangini was given a longer leash with regards to that b/c he was taking over a 4-12 team with a QB who had never made it through a full season as starter, no RB, an OL with expected growing pains, etc. Basically, that we were expected to do nothing anyway. So that is as good a time as any to implement a new scheme. Herm did it with a win-now, veteran team.

That being said, by season's end we will have started & finished two NFL seasons in this 3-4 without a NT and a with a 225-lb ILB. Now THAT has more than just a faint stench of stubbornness.

[DefenseWinsChampionships]

I wish D.Henderson was still our DC

[lancemehl]

Agreed! When Herm came to us he had to play the cover 2 even though we did not have the personnel for it. He was panned by most Jets fans. Now ERIC seems to be getting away with the same type of attitude that HERM displayed. ERIC is alleged to be a defensive guru. How come he does not know that we suck on defense because we do not have the players to play his failed-with-the Jets- defensive scheme? TUNA could win with 11 guys direct from a Garbage truck! He played to their strengths and magnified them. He put them in the best position to display whatever skill they have. Unfortunately, ERIC does NOT see the light! ya can not put a round peg in a square hole ERIC! Wake up before another season rolls by and we are losers again!

wait a minute. Is this a thread about how sh!tty our defense is????/I'm shocked.

I just thought thought I'd jump in so everyone can call me an idiot.

For the past two years, I hav watched the worse NFL defense I have ever seen take the field.

How many times do average RB's have 100 against us,ummm EVERY GAME.

every Jet defense i could think of including all the Herm guys, Buddy Ryan, Bud Carson

all of them were hard hitting sack the QB, respectable defenses.

And still we have morons on this board saying "Vilma sucks", D-Rob Sucks,Ellis sucks,

Oh and for the record,just to show I could give credit where it's due if your gonna tell Barrett to get the he!! out of Dodge, after yesterday isn't the time,in fact it's the ONLY WEEK EVER where it's not the time and Dyson IS our #2,actually #1,but Revis was such a fantastic pick, he's probably one!

Yes, our defense blows horse ba!!s!.

It's a disgrace to guys like Lance,Klecko,Victor Green,Kyle Clifton,Bob Crable, Bobby Jackson, Marvin Jones,Mo Lewis, Bobby Houston,

those guys hit,they hit hard,they piled on. This defense sucks and it IS SCHEMES!

like ecurb said,why have coaches. We called one good blitz, and Vilma missed the sack cause he fell, but Ellis Bull Dozed his man into the QB.

One more thing for the lancemehl fan club, although I gained some new friends yesterday.

When I say that this Bu!!Sh!t 3-4 has ruined Vilma,Ellis,D-Rob,Hobson and Barton.....the next guy that says "But look what it's done for B Thomas!"

I ask "What?"

[Sperm Edwards]

The worst defense you've ever seen take the field? They suck right now. But even without being dominant last year they gave up the 6th-fewest points in the NFL.

[lancemehl]

I wish D.Henderson was still our DC

amen, or Cotrell or pete Carroll(my favorite) or Buddy Ryan or Bud Carson or Bill Belicheck or any othe DC we've ever had.

I wish we grabbed that mullet wearing psycho from Oakland

[bitonti]

I really don't know why he hasn't unseated Dewayne as the starter in the middle.

maybe cause he's not as good?

people are going of fon the defense, they were playing basically prevent after 31-13, and they won, that's what prevent defense is supposed to do.

defense is a relative term, the bears supposedly had the best unit in the land, they got smoked last night. Miami is 0-3 but they aren't terrible. Ronnie Brown is an excellent player, sometimes excellent players make plays - that's the nature of the league.

im not really worried about the defense, even though there is room for improvement.

[Bugg]

maybe cause he's not as good?

people are going of fon the defense, they were playing basically prevent after 31-13, and they won, that's what prevent defense is supposed to do.

defense is a relative term, the bears supposedly had the best unit in the land, they got smoked last night. Miami is 0-3 but they aren't terrible. Ronnie Brown is an excellent player, sometimes excellent players make plays - that's the nature of the league.

im not really worried about the defense, even though there is room for improvement.

In fairness, as bad as things where once it got to 31-13(and it got really, really bad if you were giving 3.5), Mnagini made a calclulated decision with a 3-score lead to give up clock for ground on the last 2 Fins drives. He isn't happy that no one stepped up and made a play, nor that the offense couldn't grind it out. But he did make a decision that the Fins getting 3 scores meant way too much had to go right for them, and it wasn't very likely.And even Cam Cameron and the Fins knew as much.

No matter-you can cry about scheme all day.The jets front 7 doesn't win enough 1-on-1 battles that how they line up will much matter. Also, the idea that they line up every down with 3 down linemen is a fallacy; they show a variety of fronts within the 3-4. Simply there still are guys on this defense who aren't getting the job done. But the CS is not a bunch of idiots, and if Harris is preferable the move will be made.

[Scott Dierking]

In fairness, as bad as things where once it got to 31-13(and it got really, really bad if you were giving 3.5), Mnagini made a calclulated decision with a 3-score lead to give up clock for ground on the last 2 Fins drives. He isn't happy that no one stepped up and made a play, nor that the offense couldn't grind it out. But he did make a decision that the Fins getting 3 scores meant way too much had to go right for them, and it wasn't very likely.And even Cam Cameron and the Fins knew as much.

No matter-you can cry about scheme all day.The jets front 7 doesn't win enough 1-on-1 battles that how they line up will much matter. Also, the idea that they line up every down with 3 down linemen is a fallacy; they show a variety of fronts within the 3-4. Simply there still are guys on this defense who aren't getting the job done. But the CS is not a bunch of idiots, and if Harris is preferable the move will be made.

The Jets went into a "donut" defense, with that lead, designed to funnel plays to the midddle of the field (eat clock). and keep plays in front of the secondary. That RB screen to th emiddle of the field was a brilliant call.

While the defense was not stellar, a lot of those yards in teh last 2 drives were the Jets willing to give yards in order to eat clock, while not getting beat deep.

Face it, this is a bend but don't break defenbse, designed to stiffen in the red zone. The problem has been is they have not forced turnovers as they would like.