Ratliff

[lancemehl]

How could anybody see what Ratliff did in preseason last year and say, "No, don't want him"

Did he at least not spark interest? Do we at least not want to see him play against first stringers?

Help me here.

If a player shines in college, where he is clearly the best player on the field, we want to draft him first round, but if a player shines against other PROFESSIONALS who are equal in talent (all third stringers) we say, " ahhh, he only played against third stringers"

Logic,please,someone, help, idiot i must be.

I would rather see a guy who played like Joe Montana against Professional thirdstringers in a pre-season NFL game, than a guy who played like Joe Montana at Boise ST. Is it me?

[ECURB]

How could anybody see what Ratliff did in preseason last year and say, "No, don't want him"

Did he at least not spark interest? Do we at least not want to see him play against first stringers?

Help me here.

If a player shines in college, where he is clearly the best player on the field, we want to draft him first round, but if a player shines against other PROFESSIONALS who are equal in talent (all third stringers) we say, " ahhh, he only played against third stringers"

Logic,please,someone, help, idiot i must be.

I would rather see a guy who played like Joe Montana against Professional thirdstringers in a pre-season NFL game, than a guy who played like Joe Montana at Boise ST. Is it me?

Its not the level of play, its the type of playing and game planning that is the concern...

[lancemehl]

Its not the level of play, its the type of playing and game planning that is the concern...

whether it's pop warner or NFL or a pick up game in the snow, the point is to win. Only a true cynic could watch Ratliff's performance last year and say, "No thanks", then add his size and the argument gets ridiculous

[ECURB]

whether it's pop warner or NFL or a pick up game in the snow, the point is to win. Only a true cynic could watch Ratliff's performance last year and say, "No thanks", then add his size and the argument gets ridiculous

Your looking at it completely wrong... nobody hates the guy... some people just dont think he has proven anything by beating up defenses more vanilla than the ones he faced in college...

[Gainzo]

How could anybody see what Ratliff did in preseason last year and say, "No, don't want him"

Did he at least not spark interest? Do we at least not want to see him play against first stringers?

Help me here.

If a player shines in college, where he is clearly the best player on the field, we want to draft him first round, but if a player shines against other PROFESSIONALS who are equal in talent (all third stringers) we say, " ahhh, he only played against third stringers"

Logic,please,someone, help, idiot i must be.

I would rather see a guy who played like Joe Montana against Professional thirdstringers in a pre-season NFL game, than a guy who played like Joe Montana at Boise ST. Is it me?

You answered your own question. Its called preseason for a reason.

[lancemehl]

You answered your own question. Its called preseason for a reason.

I thought preseason was there for two reasons:

1. getting the team ready for games and, more importantly evaluating the "on the fence" talent.

IMO, Ratliff, earned a shot at the next level, if not, can preseason altogether.

[Hofstra Jet]

i agree with you lance, i really like what he showed in preseason last year, and dot think that should be turned away. I am sure there will be a full minicamp and summer drills to see who the starter will be

[dbatesman]

How could anybody see what Ratliff did in preseason last year and say, "No, don't want him"

Did he at least not spark interest? Do we at least not want to see him play against first stringers?

Anyone who dismisses Ratliff outright is an idiot. He's got the size and the arm and he looked very smooth out there, third-stringers or not.

On the other hand, Ratliff was a UDFA who divided his college years between JUCO and playing in a gimmicky offense in a second-tier conference. Your comparison of college to preseason is interesting, but third-stringers are third-stringers.

Basically, the only thing that Ratliff has earned is the opportunity to compete for the starting job--nothing more. So the answer to your question about seeing him play against first-stringers is: only if he wins the job.

[slats]

Your looking at it completely wrong... nobody hates the guy... some people just dont think he has proven anything by beating up defenses more vanilla than the ones he faced in college...

That's about it.

The Ratliff Fan Club in here cracks me up. I wish him all the best, and hope has enough going on that the new staff wants to take a long look at him this summer. That can only be a good thing for the team. But the guy was playing catch at the end of a couple preseason games. No defensive gameplans. Not a lot of guys who made NFL rosters, probably.

What do you think Schottenheimer thinks of him? He never had a shot at the starting job last year, and the Jets chose to carry a fourth QB. I don't know.

[ECURB]

That's about it.

The Ratliff Fan Club in here cracks me up. I wish him all the best, and hope has enough going on that the new staff wants to take a long look at him this summer. That can only be a good thing for the team. But the guy was playing catch at the end of a couple preseason games. No defensive gameplans. Not a lot of guys who made NFL rosters, probably.

What do you think Schottenheimer thinks of him? He never had a shot at the starting job last year, and the Jets chose to carry a fourth QB. I don't know.

I am just happy that Rex has seen a young QB succeed now... otherwise a lot of young coaches get suckered into going with the Vet just because of comfort...

[SMC]

I don't care how Ratliff looked in the preseason.

I just pray to the football gods that he's legit NFL starter because the Jets are in deep dog poo if he's not.

[piney]

That's about it.

The Ratliff Fan Club in here cracks me up. I wish him all the best, and hope has enough going on that the new staff wants to take a long look at him this summer. That can only be a good thing for the team. But the guy was playing catch at the end of a couple preseason games. No defensive gameplans. Not a lot of guys who made NFL rosters, probably.

What do you think Schottenheimer thinks of him? He never had a shot at the starting job last year, and the Jets chose to carry a fourth QB. I don't know.

see, I thought they carried 4 QBs because of how Ratliff performed..

if Ratliff stunk it up when he went in, he was going to be the odd man out...

I think Ainge, Clemens, and obviously Favre were the guys to fill out the QB position, and once Ratliff did what he did, they felt they had to ensure they could hold onto him.

[124]

Can he please, PLEASE, just once do something effective against maybe 2ND STRINGERS? Please.

Dear god, enough of these ****ing Ratliff threads. The guy isn't any better than Brooks Bollinger. If he were so good, he would've jumped at least Kellen on the Depth Chart. He didn't.

[piney]

Can he please, PLEASE, just once do something effective against maybe 2ND STRINGERS? Please.

Dear god, enough of these ****ing Ratliff threads. The guy isn't any better than Brooks Bollinger. If he were so good, he would've jumped at least Kellen on the Depth Chart. He didn't.

I think you are missing the point

[dbatesman]

If he were so good, he would've jumped at least Kellen on the Depth Chart. He didn't.

I'm not part of the "ZOMG RATCLIF IS THE NEXT TOM BRADY!!!11" crowd, but I gotta disagree with you here. I had (and have) little faith in Mangini's ability to evaluate QBs. Ratliff's burial at #3 on the depth chart doesn't necessarily indicate a lack of skill or readiness (though it cerainly could); it might just indicate that Mangini loved Clemens for some reason, or was too stubborn to let a UDFA rise to backup, or just that he had no clue about quarterbacks. The point is, we just don't know. Let's see what Rex thinks before we decide that he's worse (or better) than Clemens.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Can he please, PLEASE, just once do something effective against maybe 2ND STRINGERS? Please.

Dear god, enough of these ****ing Ratliff threads. The guy isn't any better than Brooks Bollinger. If he were so good, he would've jumped at least Kellen on the Depth Chart. He didn't.

That's not necessarily true. What would the FO gain by having Ratliff jump from #3 to #2 on the depth chart, when Favre was going to take almost every meaningful snap in the season?? It would create needless drama as far as Mangini was concerned.

This of course is all speculation on my behalf, but the mere fact that there was rumblings of it happening is fairly significant.

Something I found out that I thought was interesting, that before Ratty played at Utah he spent two years at a JUCO called Butte College. The interesting thing was that he replaced Aaron Rodgers and left that college with the most completions and Touchdowns. I think it's fascinating that they both played in the same conference and had similar success. I think the biggest thing hurting Ratliffs' stock, becuase it certainly isn't his measurables, was that he played at Utah in an unconventional offense.

He has seemed to play big in big games as well...This site has a pretty nice synopsis of some of his bigger games - http://utahutes.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/ratliff_brett00.html

[ylekram]

any 3rd string college qb can hit a wide open receiver,totally unpressured,for a long td.even 2 in 1 game.hell,maybe i could of thrown 1 of them.point is,clemens is the guy if favre retires

[ECURB]

Good,to,know.

[dbatesman]

Well, I guess that clears that issue up.

[ECURB]

Well, I guess that clears that issue up.

You, need more, commas, and. periods, got it?

[Bleedin Green]

I think the point some try to make is not that you can't be encouraged but what you saw last season, but rather you have to take it for what it was, a 3rd string player playing alongside other third string players against other third string players in a preseason game. If you need an example of why that doesn't tell you everything you need to know, just go back one more year.

During the 2007 preseason Kellen Clemens performed extremely well, including instances where he played amongst almost all first stringers on his offense and the opposing defense. And while the team still had more success under him than they did Chad that season, he was never able to maintain a consistent level of success at the level he played that prior preseason. Sure Ratliff looking good is better than him looking bad, but it doesn't necessarily mean a lot for his prospects as a pro starter.

[124]

You can compare Ratliff to Aaron Rodgers, I can compare Ratliff to Alex Smith as he played in the exact same offense to Smith and proceeded him as the starter at Utah.

Its all irrelevant.

I just do not understand why a couple of Preseason throws against the guy on TV in the Budweiser shirt is so special.

I think Jets fans, and a lot of people around the NFL, are in too much of a rush to find the next star at the Quarterback position. One good pass or one good throw and the guy is Jesus.

Doesn't work that way.

Ratliff is a no-no until we can at least see some second string success.

It is what it is, a 3rd stringer playing well against 3rd stringers and guys that didn't even make the 1st cut. Congrats to Brett, he kicks ass against 3rd stringers and Budweiser guys.

[dbatesman]

You, need more, commas, and. periods, got it?

Sorry, I, didn.t realize, that.

,

[Bleedin Green]

I'm not part of the "ZOMG RATCLIF IS THE NEXT TOM BRADY!!!11" crowd, but I gotta disagree with you here. I had (and have) little faith in Mangini's ability to evaluate QBs. Ratliff's burial at #3 on the depth chart doesn't necessarily indicate a lack of skill or readiness (though it cerainly could); it might just indicate that Mangini loved Clemens for some reason, or was too stubborn to let a UDFA rise to backup, or just that he had no clue about quarterbacks. The point is, we just don't know. Let's see what Rex thinks before we decide that he's worse (or better) than Clemens.

I'm not sure its even that though. I think Clemens position over Ratliff didn't have all that much to do with the ability of either. Based on some of the things that were reported over the season, I was always given the impression that Clemens had his position for a couple of simple reasons: he was the only other QB on the roster with any sort of NFL playing experience and therefore, he had a better grasp of the offense than any QB on the roster.

When you have a guy like Favre who you're not expecting to miss time and an offense that, if Favre had missed time, would likely have turned into a run-first, run-often the potential that Ratliff MIGHT be better than Clemens may not be enough to outweigh the knowledge that Clemens has a much higher level of comfort in the offense.

[ECURB]

You can compare Ratliff to Aaron Rodgers, I can compare Ratliff to Alex Smith as he played in the exact same offense to Smith and proceeded him as the starter at Utah.

Its all irrelevant.

I just do not understand why a couple of Preseason throws against the guy on TV in the Budweiser shirt is so special.

I think Jets fans, and a lot of people around the NFL, are in too much of a rush to find the next star at the Quarterback position. One good pass or one good throw and the guy is Jesus.

Doesn't work that way.

Ratliff is a no-no until we can at least see some second string success.

It is what it is, a 3rd stringer playing well against 3rd stringers and guys that didn't even make the 1st cut. Congrats to Brett, he kicks ass against 3rd stringers and Budweiser guys.

So you want to see him tagged as the 2nd guy on the bench rather than the 3rd guy before you trust him?

lol

More than half the coaching staff just got canned... last years depth charts mean ****...

[dbatesman]

I'm not sure its even that though. I think Clemens position over Ratliff didn't have all that much to do with the ability of either. Based on some of the things that were reported over the season, I was always given the impression that Clemens had his position for a couple of simple reasons: he was the only other QB on the roster with any sort of NFL playing experience and therefore, he had a better grasp of the offense than any QB on the roster.

When you have a guy like Favre who you're not expecting to miss time and an offense that, if Favre had missed time, would likely have turned into a run-first, run-often the potential that Ratliff MIGHT be better than Clemens may not be enough to outweigh the knowledge that Clemens has a much higher level of comfort in the offense.

Very true. In a similar vein, I just don't understand the people who talk about Ratliff like it's a foregone conclusion that he'll be our starter. I hope he turns out to be great, but who knows? The fact remains: he was pretty undistinguished in college, and he has zero NFL experience, save a few series against truck drivers and insurance salesmen.

This summer's TC should be very interesting...

[ECURB]

Very true. In a similar vein, I just don't understand the people who talk about Ratliff like it's a foregone conclusion that he'll be our starter. I hope he turns out to be great, but who knows? The fact remains: he was pretty undistinguished in college, and he has zero NFL experience, save a few series against truck drivers and insurance salesmen.

This summer's TC should be very interesting...

Not if Favre comes back... but if he goes it will be very interesting to watch 3-4 young QBs fight it out... why they hell not...

[The Troll]

I just hope one of them doesn't suck. I really don't give a **** which one.

[joebabyny]

That's about it.

The Ratliff Fan Club in here cracks me up. I wish him all the best, and hope has enough going on that the new staff wants to take a long look at him this summer. That can only be a good thing for the team. But the guy was playing catch at the end of a couple preseason games. No defensive gameplans. Not a lot of guys who made NFL rosters, probably.

What do you think Schottenheimer thinks of him? He never had a shot at the starting job last year, and the Jets chose to carry a fourth QB. I don't know.

but what cracks me up even more are the Clemens Fan Club who begged for him to be given the starting job in 07 and just have to stick with him because they can't admit the kid was a dud.

And as for this Ratliff only played 3rd stringers, In the first preseason game of the year which was his best game he was the second qb, Brett never played.

What is the point of a preseason if guys who do well in it mean nothing? I am very confident that if Favre is not on the jets next year and we do not trade or draft for a qb that Ratliff gets the spot. Keep in mind KC is in a contract year and no noise whatsoever has been made to extend him and this is a new coaching staff not worried about having a failed second round pick on a qb who doesn't pan out since it wasn't on their watch. I assume Rex will be completely unbiased and Ratliff will win out. He has a better arm then Clemens, he has way better size then Clemens, and when looking at their comparable levels of performance(preseason) Ratliff has done much better. And there is another point for all the "preseason proves nothing" folks. What exactly did KC ever show prior to taking over as starter last year that made people think he would be better than the qb who got us to the playoffs 3 out of his 6 years as starter? Nothing, that is what, he was always crap, even in preseason. The only thing he had going was that he was a second round pick.

[joebabyny]

see, I thought they carried 4 QBs because of how Ratliff performed..

if Ratliff stunk it up when he went in, he was going to be the odd man out...

I think Ainge, Clemens, and obviously Favre were the guys to fill out the QB position, and once Ratliff did what he did, they felt they had to ensure they could hold onto him.

Also, i would think that if they felt secure with KC as a viable option and the future that they would have been more than comfortable with him as a backup and one of the other two, no need for 4 qbs. BUT, if you have a guy who was your starter last year and had a lot of money invested in him, you are kinda forced to keep him on the bench even if you think you may have something in some other vastly lower paid guys. I think the jets carrying 4 qbs last year is a severe indictment against KC.

[joebabyny]

Can he please, PLEASE, just once do something effective against maybe 2ND STRINGERS? Please.

lol, joey, go to nfl.com and look at the game summary for our first preseason game before you ask that, don't you remember Favre sitting on the sideline that game in his grey tshirt and cargo shorts playing catch? I think Ratliff had like 350 yards as the second string qb, maybe more yardage than KC had in all his preseason games in his nfl career combined, lol.

[joebabyny]

I'm not part of the "ZOMG RATCLIF IS THE NEXT TOM BRADY!!!11" crowd, but I gotta disagree with you here. I had (and have) little faith in Mangini's ability to evaluate QBs. Ratliff's burial at #3 on the depth chart doesn't necessarily indicate a lack of skill or readiness (though it cerainly could); it might just indicate that Mangini loved Clemens for some reason, or was too stubborn to let a UDFA rise to backup, or just that he had no clue about quarterbacks. The point is, we just don't know. Let's see what Rex thinks before we decide that he's worse (or better) than Clemens.

or he didn't want to look like a fool for wasting a high second rounder on a guy who got beat by an undrafted free agent.

[joebabyny]

I just hope one of them doesn't suck. I really don't give a **** which one.

agree totally. I will say though, Ratliff has an advantage, he hasn't had the chance to screw up yet in the regular season while Clemens on the other hand is already behind the eightball, he first has to unsuck, lol.

[piney]

Also, i would think that if they felt secure with KC as a viable option and the future that they would have been more than comfortable with him as a backup and one of the other two, no need for 4 qbs. BUT, if you have a guy who was your starter last year and had a lot of money invested in him, you are kinda forced to keep him on the bench even if you think you may have something in some other vastly lower paid guys. I think the jets carrying 4 qbs last year is a severe indictment against KC.

I agree...the fact that they didn't want to cut either Ainge or Ratliff speaks volumes about how they feel about KC...

[villain_the_foe]

any 3rd string college qb can hit a wide open receiver,totally unpressured,for a long td.even 2 in 1 game.hell,maybe i could of thrown 1 of them.point is,clemens is the guy if favre retires

You have 3rd stringers (Ratliff, Clowney) showing that if you put them against a 3rd sting defense they will run all over them like they're 1st stringers. Point is, Ratliff is the guy if Favre retires and Clemens keeps playing like a 1st stringer playing like a 3rd stringer when 1 string defenses are on the field.