Mafia Game 3 - Not All in the Family..

[SMC]

For god's sake, you already killed BG. If you seriously are on the town's side, why would you kill yourself?

Bona fides, my friend. I'm on the town's side. But I killed one innocent (BG) and lead to another (if Doggin is innocent), then what's the alternative?

Besides, I think the Rats will get me tonight.

[slats]

1) I don't have any restrictions (at least not stated in the instructions CTM PM'd me). I think I can kill anyone at night.

2) I know I'm dead tonight, but at least I can still kill a Rat tonight as well (if we agree who it should be).

3) I think the Rats tried to take out either me or EY and Norway protected the right one. I have no clue why there was no NK last night.

Again, if the Roleblocker can block all moves, we should be told of this. It's not in any instructions anywhere.

I personally think Doggin is a Rat Roleblocker, or at least 1 Rat is. I don't think Roleblockers need to be aligned with the Family (town).

Norway's dead, he saved no one. He was so pissed, he probably would've killed EY if he had any power left at all.

One explanation is someone took over as lawyer, or there was a second one all along. And that lawyer was good enough to guess the scum's action last night. Or the scum opted not to make a move? That seems unlikely, too, because they had momemtum on their side with us lynching our lawyer. they'd want to keep that heat on.

I don't know.

The same guy that "role blocked" you is gonna do it again. We still lose.

This is likely now. Probably a decent reason to let SMC live a day and see what happens. If he makes it to night, they'll have to block him and/or kill him. The scum can block him the rest of the game (if this hypothesis is true) if they like, but that would in turn allow our finder to work freely every night.

[SMC]

Unless of course that roleblocker is Doggin himself?

That's what I'm thinking as well.

Besides, didn't you present the theory that I was a vigilante BEFORE the Morning Announcement?

Hence, Doggin had time to put in a roleblock to save him. He had to know he was either getting investigated or whacked by me Night 2.

[ZachEY]

1) SMC do you have any restrictions to your role? (amount of kills, posting restrictions etc.)

2) If SMC is telling the truth, we are screwed tonight. SMC will die either this day phase or night phase. UNLESS there is another "doctor" that needs to protect SMC tonight. This way, SMC makes a verifiable kill of our choosing to verify his innocence. If not, then we lose our ability to kill rats at night. Unless there is a protector on our side still remaining, it's not good news for SMC.

3) If you killed BG night one, then why haven't there been dead bodies piling up??? Are you telling me the mafia is unable to NK anyone? Or are choosing not to NK? Neither scenario particularly makes sense to me.

If SMC is scum, he'll live past this night phase without verification of his role via a kill, then I think we should lynch him. His life as scum is short-lived if he is one.

This is a good point. Doggin, as scum, can live on further than SMC can, cause Doggin has a more viable way to talk himself out of danger.

Combine that with the fact that I had the inclination that this was in fact his role, the role vs roll thing, the red herring thing... and perhaps the answer is clear.

I want to see what others think first though. I also will probably wait till after shabbos to vote doggin if that's my decision, as even if he's scum, he's jewish scum, so he has a place in my heart.

[Jets Things]

For god's sake, you already killed BG. If you seriously are on the town's side, why would you kill yourself?

None of this makes any sense. Can anybody other than SMC, Doggin, and EY explain how no one died last night?

I'll give it a go...

1) SMC is scum, didn't put a hit on Doggin, and is making sh1t up to save himself.

2) Someone is a roleblocker and is also scum, perhaps suspected SMC had a role based upon EY's theories (which have been unwaveringly followed this game), thought SMC would try to do something, and blocked his attempt on Doggin while not knowing SMC was going after him.

3) Scum ran out of time and the night deadline passed.

Other than those three I got nothing.

[ZachEY]

This is likely now. Probably a decent reason to let SMC live a day and see what happens. If he makes it to night, they'll have to block him and/or kill him. The scum can block him the rest of the game (if this hypothesis is true) if they like, but that would in turn allow our finder to work freely every night.

Another great point slats.

[The Crusher]

With only one vote in on him and a reveal. I don't think SMC is that dumb to make a move like that. It's too much of a impulse defense move IMO and at this point he's done anyways. If he's guilty I think we can at least have a better feel on EY, he's repeatedly defended him. It is what it is, at this point we can let SMC live, he can possibly get a bad guy at night, and then he's dead and we're still left with no more answers. I'm probably wrong anyways.

Vote: SMC

Here you go brother, you could use this:

[ZachEY]

Another great point slats.

We then force the mafia to roleblock him every night, or kill him tonight. Thusly, occupying one of their abilities.

Or, Doggin is the roleblocker, and SMC likely dies tonight, but we whack a mafia roleblocker in the process.

Doesn't sound bad to me.

[Vicious89x]

For god's sake, you already killed BG. If you seriously are on the town's side, why would you kill yourself?

None of this makes any sense. Can anybody other than SMC, Doggin, and EY explain how no one died last night?

It's how you want to look at it:

SMC is innocent.

He tried to kill a mafia, I'm assuming you're only allowed ONE night action. Mafia has a roleblocker and decided to roleblock since they're down a man already and work us during the day. So rather then kill, they role blocked. SMC couldn't kill Doggin cause doggin is a rat.

SMC is guilty.

The Mafia could've chose to just not NK anyone to create confusion

Or the role block scenario still applies... but SMC is a serial killer. Remember this is a large game so multiple roles can be out there like this.

[slats]

I'll give it a go...

1) SMC is scum, didn't put a hit on Doggin, and is making sh1t up to save himself.

2) Someone is a roleblocker and is also scum, perhaps suspected SMC had a role based upon EY's theories (which have been unwaveringly followed this game), thought SMC would try to do something, and blocked his attempt on Doggin while not knowing SMC was going after him.

3) Scum ran out of time and the night deadline passed.

Other than those three I got nothing.

Time didn't run out. They had until after Shabbos to put in their night orders for night two.

[SMC]

Norway's dead, he saved no one. He was so pissed, he probably would've killed EY if he had any power left at all.

I was referring to Night 1. Norway was still alive then. Norway got Whacked Day 2. I have no idea what happened Night 2 UNLESS ...

By using the Roleblock, the Rats were unable to do a Night Kill. Here's CTM's rules:

Actions: All Day and Night actions will occur instantly, unless otherwise specified. This means that two people night-killing each other will both die (unless one is saved somehow) . Any action not submitted by the deadline will be forfeit for that phase and I will only accept the first action submitted. Once you send in your action, that

[Jets Things]

Time didn't run out. They had until after Shabbos to put in their night orders for night two.

I gotta start paying attention to deadlines.

[CTM]

Vote Count

SMC (2) Doggin, Vic

Doggin (1) SMC

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to whack

[The Crusher]

Also true.

Here are the facts:

- The opening scene has an arrest made.

- Night 1 there was a gunshot wound to the head.

- Day 2 the Doc is killed, leaving players unprotected, unless there is another Doc.

- Night 2 there was no kill, or arrest whatsoever.

- SMC has claimed a role that seems viable, at least to me, who thought he might be something like this for a while.

- SMC claims he tried to kill Doggin who is still alive.

- Doggin claims all SMC says is BS.

Almost like prophecy. I wonder why SMC decided to disloce now. What did the two of you have to gain from that?

[SMC]

Okay, in a nutshell, here's my theory:

Doggin is a Rat. Either he or one of his Rat friends is a Roleblocker. They knew that since Doggin was not NK night 1 by the vigilante, he'd like be NK'd night 2. He was also a suspect and wanted to avoid investigation.

Doggin knew or had reason to believe I was the Vigilante (based on the theories out there).

The Rats sent a Night Action in blocking actions against Doggin. In doing so, they couldn't kill anybody because only 1 Night Action is allowed.

Therefore, we should vote Doggin.

[SMC]

Almost like prophecy. I wonder why SMC decided to disloce now. What did the two of you have to gain from that?

Why? Because I need to find a way to guarantee we get 2 Rat kills in the day and night.

If Doggin is the Roleblocker, we're in good shape by offing him.

[Vicious89x]

Norway's dead, he saved no one. He was so pissed, he probably would've killed EY if he had any power left at all.

One explanation is someone took over as lawyer, or there was a second one all along. And that lawyer was good enough to guess the scum's action last night. Or the scum opted not to make a move? That seems unlikely, too, because they had momemtum on their side with us lynching our lawyer. they'd want to keep that heat on.

I don't know.

This is likely now. Probably a decent reason to let SMC live a day and see what happens. If he makes it to night, they'll have to block him and/or kill him. The scum can block him the rest of the game (if this hypothesis is true) if they like, but that would in turn allow our finder to work freely every night.

Sure that's a brilliant idea.

Because it's just easier for the mafia to kill him off and him shoot another blank and kill two innocents in one night.

Of course if he guesses right then we go 1-for-1 which is nice. SMC with his reveal is a tool to be used for the mafia if we let him life.

Just some possible scenarios:

- He's role blocked, our investigator investigates doggin, he's guilty, we lynch him, SMC is exonerated and all is well

- He kills Doggin, then he dies, we go 1-for-1

Those are the positives of keeping him around

As for positives of lynching him

- He's innocent, he's dead, we know doggin is done for, our investigator is still left in secret and he can investigate someone like EY who has continually defended him, he can clear that up right away. We essentially go 1-for-1 with this.

- He's scum and he's dead

- We avoid any nights where he kills an innocent and the mafia kills an innocent. That would hurt our #'s.

- Also, if he's scum we can focus in on people like EY who have continually stood by his side. We can look back at posts and see who voted with him and around him, build a stronger suspect list.

So here's the think I'm confused on about BG:

If he killed BG by "accident".. that means that's 2 NIGHTS with no action from the mafia. Because the only death was BG. Are we to assume the mafia is sending out this role blocker right out of the gates? Because that's the only way mafia doesn't kill at night is if they're allowed one night action and that's role blocking. So that means 2 nights of role blocking, and then the death of BG done in by a guy on "our side".

[ZachEY]

Almost like prophecy. I wonder why SMC decided to disloce now. What did the two of you have to gain from that?

I think he did it in large part because he believes his life tonight is strongly worth trading for someone he believes he's confirmed as scum.

SMC gains his life today. Because, without that reveal, he looks to easily be the next one to go.

[Dan.]

It's how you want to look at it:

SMC is innocent.

He tried to kill a mafia, I'm assuming you're only allowed ONE night action. Mafia has a roleblocker and decided to roleblock since they're down a man already and work us during the day. So rather then kill, they role blocked. SMC couldn't kill Doggin cause doggin is a rat.

SMC is guilty.

The Mafia could've chose to just not NK anyone to create confusion

Or the role block scenario still applies... but SMC is a serial killer. Remember this is a large game so multiple roles can be out there like this.

Ok, so I think I understand the reasoning if SMC is innocent - that no one would get NK'ed either night (the roleblock Night 2 and the doctor potentially protecting EY or someone else Night 1).

But if SMC is guilty and lying about his role, do we really think there would be no night kill? Simply to create confusion?

I also don't understand Doggin's pressing need to lynch SMC right now. Either way, isn't his time limited?

[slats]

This would seem to me that only 1 Night Action is allowed. In other words, the Rats can't send in a Night Action requesting 2 things.

That fits.

Would they then use their action tonight to kill or block you? I think kill. Another night of no kills would definitely suggest that you have an ability, and they have the ability to block it. We'd be onto to something, our finder would be hard at work, and they'd be behind in kills.

My feeling is that you'll have a difficult time living thru day three either way. I'm inclined to let you live 'til night and see what happens. More info is available that way.

[Vicious89x]

Ok, so I think I understand the reasoning if SMC is innocent - that no one would get NK'ed either night (the roleblock Night 2 and the doctor potentially protecting EY or someone else Night 1).

But if SMC is guilty and lying about his role, do we really think there would be no night kill? Simply to create confusion?

I also don't understand Doggin's pressing need to lynch SMC right now. Either way, isn't his time limited?

If SMC is guilty then it could be as simple as we have a role blocker on our side as well. Or he's a serial killer, he's a third party that got blocked by the mafia. He's trying to play on our side to do his work for him but to him it doesn't matter who he kills as long as he's the last man left. Either way I can't see him being GOOD for us.

[ZachEY]

If he killed BG by "accident".. that means that's 2 NIGHTS with no action from the mafia. Because the only death was BG. Are we to assume the mafia is sending out this role blocker right out of the gates? Because that's the only way mafia doesn't kill at night is if they're allowed one night action and that's role blocking. So that means 2 nights of role blocking, and then the death of BG done in by a guy on "our side".

I don't know about night 2, but night one is fairly reasonable to think that I earned Norway's trust and thus protection, and it ended up working.

[The Crusher]

BTW, the rationale: "Lynch SMC and if he's innocent, then lynch Doggin" is stupid. Know why?

If I'm innocent and live, that means I can NK tonight a Rat. If I'm dead the Family loses the ability to NK a Rat.

That does have it's appeal but that would only be true if you're not lying? Sorta like you meet a girl in the bar and she tells you she gives the best head of any woman ever. Yet, until she puts your junk in her mouth... It's only talk. Means nothing, just makes you start making bad decisions because you can think about nothng but that. Kinda the story of my first marriage. Sigh

[Vicious89x]

I don't know about night 2, but night one is fairly reasonable to think that I earned Norway's trust and thus protection, and it ended up working.

I can't see the mafia going after you. That play makes entirely too much sense and with such a large game the mafia could pick someone else valuable to the town to off if they know that you're protected.

If that's the case then we're playing against the noobiest mafia ever.

[slats]

If he killed BG by "accident".. that means that's 2 NIGHTS with no action from the mafia. Because the only death was BG. Are we to assume the mafia is sending out this role blocker right out of the gates? Because that's the only way mafia doesn't kill at night is if they're allowed one night action and that's role blocking. So that means 2 nights of role blocking, and then the death of BG done in by a guy on "our side".

BG wasn't a bad guess in my eyes. I mentioned that night that I thought he might be scummy with that nail in the coffin/distance creating vote on IJ. He's also made it to the end of a couple games. I understand being highly suspicious of him.

There might be another night action, too. What if they have the power to turn a player at night? Like the "bite power" in the zombie game that I believe turned... you? I could have that wrong, but they definitely were able to turn a player into a zombie, and it certainly fits the makeup of this game that the rats could bag a family member overnight and send him back wearing a wire.

[ZachEY]

I also don't understand Doggin's pressing need to lynch SMC right now. Either way, isn't his time limited?

That's why I lean toward voting Doggin. Because SMC is almost certain to get killed tonight.

[The Crusher]

Yep, that was me.

I thought Bleedin was a Rat so I put a cap in his ass. That's why I thought we'd win the game if Irish came up scum. We'd get 2 Rats killed. That did not happen.

Really? Funny I don't remember you saying that. Maybe you did, not sure where. You and Doggin seem to be sparring since early in the game.

[Vicious89x]

BG wasn't a bad guess in my eyes. I mentioned that night that I thought he might be scummy with that nail in the coffin/distance creating vote on IJ. He's also made it to the end of a couple games. I understand being highly suspicious of him.

There might be another night action, too. What if they have the power to turn a player at night? Like the "bite power" in the zombie game that I believe turned... you? I could have that wrong, but they definitely were able to turn a player into a zombie, and it certainly fits the makeup of this game that the rats could bag a family member overnight and send him back wearing a wire.

It's entirely possible.

When I turned No NK happened, everyone lived, I declared WP as a zombie, he died.

Remember how large this game is, you have to assume the rats are getting some sort of help around here to even it up a bit.

[ZachEY]

I can't see the mafia going after you. That play makes entirely too much sense and with such a large game the mafia could pick someone else valuable to the town to off if they know that you're protected.

If that's the case then we're playing against the noobiest mafia ever.

You would think that. But, because the game is so large, perhaps mafia took it's chances that the doc would be scared to leave himself vulnerable. Losing 1 NK isn't the end of the world, especially if they can roleblock and protect themselves.

Again, these are all just ideas, because we may no know why this happened until the game ends.

[ZachEY]

There might be another night action, too. What if they have the power to turn a player at night? Like the "bite power" in the zombie game that I believe turned... you? I could have that wrong, but they definitely were able to turn a player into a zombie, and it certainly fits the makeup of this game that the rats could bag a family member overnight and send him back wearing a wire.

I would be shocked.

[slats]

I just got a chill down my spine.

[Vicious89x]

That's why I lean toward voting Doggin. Because SMC is almost certain to get killed tonight.

Or.

We lynch doggin. He's innocent

Mafia blocks SMC.

No NK.

We turn on SMC to kill him, cause he'll just use the role block defense again.

[SMC]

I cannot post anything CTM sends me by PM:

Quoting the Mod/Revealing Mod Pics: You may not quote anything I say in PM. You can paraphrase all you like

[Dan.]

I just got a chill down my spine.

Any particular reason?

[Vicious89x]

I'm a lying scum

not like we can't change things. Or enter in the quotes and make stuff up ourselves.