New York Knicks' Season Opener Game Thread...and on

[jason423]

Man I love Melo. Can't wait to see what he does when he's not in this system anymore. Best scorer this team's seen in 25 years.

Its longer than that. I think you can argue he is the best scorer to ever wear the uniform. He is that great offensively. Ewing at his peak could never create the way Melo can. I know the positions are different but if you give me the option of dumping it to Patrick at his peak every possesion or passing off to Melo every possession Id take my bets with Anthony. Hes such a dynamic player. I think if he had been on a "no other option" team he would have point up close to 30 PPG and led the league in scoring. If they could ever find out how to get he and Amare to sync up on offense they have the potential to hold 2 of the top 5 or 6 scorers in the NBA.

[RutgersJetFan]

Its longer than that. I think you can argue he is the best scorer to ever wear the uniform. He is that great offensively. Ewing at his peak could never create the way Melo can. I know the positions are different but if you give me the option of dumping it to Patrick at his peak every possesion or passing off to Melo every possession Id take my bets with Anthony. Hes such a dynamic player. I think if he had been on a "no other option" team he would have point up close to 30 PPG and led the league in scoring. If they could ever find out how to get he and Amare to sync up on offense they have the potential to hold 2 of the top 5 or 6 scorers in the NBA.

Meant Bernard more than Ewing, but you can certainly make a case for that first statement. Clyde, Pearl, and Houston deserve a nod as well. It's mind boggling how good he is at creating space for himself. I've said it a thousand times since the trade but I'm baffled at how he's able to make it through traffic without so much as bumping in to a single defender. As a basketball fan I simply can not comprehend how anyone can doubt how great of a player he is.

[jason423]

Meant Bernard more than Ewing, but you can certainly make a case for that first statement. Clyde, Pearl, and Houston deserve a nod as well. It's mind boggling how good he is at creating space for himself. I've said it a thousand times since the trade but I'm baffled at how he's able to make it through traffic without so much as bumping in to a single defender. As a basketball fan I simply can not comprehend how anyone can doubt how great of a player he is.

Yeah hes impressive. First time I noticed it was about a bit more than halfway through his freshman year at Syracuse. You really dont often see truly pro ready pros playing in college anymore, but he was clearly a man among boys. There was nothing anyone in the country could do to stop him. If his number was called he was going to get a good look at the basket. Guys would try to zone him and he would just literally fly right through it or shoot in th emiddle of it. They would go to a box and 1 style and hed blow past his guy and slide in between the two trees down below. Guy must have averaged close to 40 ppg in the tourney that year. That just doesnt happen. Pro style players against those defenses usually go for 20-25. Allen Iverson was as electric a player as there was in college and never could do those kind of things. Ive always been a huge Melo fan and Im glad he is in NY. I still cant imagine how the Pistons could have watched him in college and decided that he did not deserve to go number 2. That is one of the worst 2 or 3 draft picks of all time.

[T0mShane]

I still cant imagine how the Pistons could have watched him in college and decided that he did not deserve to go number 2. That is one of the worst 2 or 3 draft picks of all time.

Larry Brown, baby. Guy's not happy unless he's living out his Gene Hackman/Hoosiers fantasy.

I was living down the street from the Carrier Dome when Melo was there. Everyone heard he was an elite prospect, etc., but when you first saw him play, he was this almost chubby kid shooting 15 foot jumpers. Took us all awhile to realize that he never missed those 15 foot jumpers. His game is almost old-school in that he's not just chucking threes or over-dribbling trying to get to the basket. IMO, what will make the difference for Melo moving forward will be if he commits to doing something other than scoring. Last night's 10 boards were as impressive as his 39 points.

[JohnnyHector]

Last night's 10 boards were as impressive as his 39 points.

You say that as if he's Brook freakin' Lopez. Melo is unquestionably a plus rebounder at the 3.

[T0mShane]

You say that as if he's Brook freakin' Lopez. Melo is unquestionably a plus rebounder at the 3.

I would never do Melo that grievous injustice. Lopez is Blair Rasmussen with less range.

[RutgersJetFan]

Yeah hes impressive. First time I noticed it was about a bit more than halfway through his freshman year at Syracuse. You really dont often see truly pro ready pros playing in college anymore, but he was clearly a man among boys. There was nothing anyone in the country could do to stop him. If his number was called he was going to get a good look at the basket. Guys would try to zone him and he would just literally fly right through it or shoot in th emiddle of it. They would go to a box and 1 style and hed blow past his guy and slide in between the two trees down below. Guy must have averaged close to 40 ppg in the tourney that year. That just doesnt happen. Pro style players against those defenses usually go for 20-25. Allen Iverson was as electric a player as there was in college and never could do those kind of things. Ive always been a huge Melo fan and Im glad he is in NY. I still cant imagine how the Pistons could have watched him in college and decided that he did not deserve to go number 2. That is one of the worst 2 or 3 draft picks of all time.

I was actually at the game at the RAC where we upset Cuse that year. Completely shut him down in the first and then he just took over and went into man-amongst-boys mode. He put up like 20 in the 2nd half and every single time he touched the ball you just knew who ever was up against him was completely screwed.

[T0mShane]

Omgderonwilliams

[madmikeisback]

Amazing that they needed to basically fight to the last possession to beat the load of utter garbage and Deron Williams the Nets put on the court. Though that late rebound going of Lopez' back was pretty friggin awesome haha. What a stiff.

[T0mShane]

Amazing that they needed to basically fight to the last possession to beat the load of utter garbage and Deron Williams the Nets put on the court. Though that late rebound going of Lopez' back was pretty friggin awesome haha. What a stiff.

Lopez is the fey Rik Smits. Deron has forced him to play harder, but he'll always be a fruit under the rim. God I love Williams, though.

[madmikeisback]

Lopez is the fey Rik Smits. Deron has forced him to play harder, but he'll always be a fruit under the rim. God I love Williams, though.

He's nowhere near as good as Rik Smits was.

[T0mShane]

He's nowhere near as good as Rik Smits was.

Surely you're referencing the epic battles Smits and Ewing waged 18 feet away from the basket in your analysis.

[RutgersJetFan]

Anthony Carter. Mission Viejo. It's true, it's true.

[RutgersJetFan]

Finally. Finally man...7 god damn years.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Finally. Finally man...7 god damn years.

In all honesty, it feels a lot more like ten than it does 7. Anyways, the question now is, who would we rather face in the first round; the heat or the celtics?? I think I'm leaning towards the heat as we've not only beaten them with the current team, but we've seen how they can falter when the game is on the line towards the final few possessions. Not only that, but if they thought there was pressure on them during the regular season, there gonna get crushed by the 20 ton boulder that is the media if they don't make it out of the first round convincingly.

[JustInFudge]

In all honesty, it feels a lot more like ten than it does 7. Anyways, the question now is, who would we rather face in the first round; the heat or the celtics?? I think I'm leaning towards the heat as we've not only beaten them with the current team, but we've seen how they can falter when the game is on the line towards the final few possessions. Not only that, but if they thought there was pressure on them during the regular season, there gonna get crushed by the 20 ton boulder that is the media if they don't make it out of the first round convincingly.

I'd prefer playing the Heat because if the going gets tough, LeBron will quit just like he did last season in the playoffs. Also, I think its only right that the Knicks make their triumphant return to the playoffs to face the team who they had the most epic battles with when the Knicks were once a playoffs staple. For a time there, Knicks/Heat series were some of the most exciting games in sports. Plus, its really fun watching all that talent on one court.

[JohnnyHector]

who would we rather face in the first round; the heat or the celtics??

Of Chicago, Miami, and Boston, the Celtics are the team I'd least like to face.

[RutgersJetFan]

Melo for the mother****ing win. Knicks are 5-1 when he goes for at least 30.

[ECURB]

Melo is a chump... See what denver is doing without him?

[T0mShane]

Melo for the mother****ing win. Knicks are 5-1 when he goes for at least 30.

It looks like Amare finally said "Screw it. Shoot whatever you want and I'll just take the shots you don't." That's actually pretty cool of him as a teammate.

[RutgersJetFan]

It looks like Amare finally said "Screw it. Shoot whatever you want and I'll just take the shots you don't." That's actually pretty cool of him as a teammate.

At some point he was going to have to concede alpha status on the court to him, the team wouldn't have worked without it. Melo's clearly the better player. IMO he took a page from Wade's book from the past month. Sometimes you just need to fold to the dude with the royal flush even if you're playing with a full house.

[T0mShane]

Knicks fans, would you trade Amare to the Nets for Brook Lopez? You give up the better player, but you get a young, capable, scoring five with a vagina who might work better with Carmelo. The Nets get back a guy with age and questionable knees who might keep Deron Williams from shooting himself in the face.

[jason423]

Knicks fans, would you trade Amare to the Nets for Brook Lopez? You give up the better player, but you get a young, capable, scoring five with a vagina who might work better with Carmelo. The Nets get back a guy with age and questionable knees who might keep Deron Williams from shooting himself in the face.

I dont think the Knicks fans would go for that. I think Lopez would be a risk. He gets so lazy on the court sometimes that I think he is one of those guys that constantly needs to be challenged from his coach and teammates to play strong and play hard. I know Vince used to get on him for that to try to help him out a few years ago (which is pretty funny considering Carter would get as lazy as anyone on the court)and Johnson has already had to send him to the bench a few times as a wakeup call. He is tremendously talented around the basket and its still amazing to me he fell to the Nets in that draft but I cant see the Knicks having the leadership in place to get him to pick up his game.

As for Williams I have a gut feeling that next season will see him with a number of "tender ankles" and "turf toe" style injuries. The guy clearly has no desire to play in NJ and he knows all he has to do is play a few games here and there where he puts up 15 assists and does some nifty moves to make sure his free agency value isnt hurt.

[madmikeisback]

Knicks fans, would you trade Amare to the Nets for Brook Lopez? You give up the better player, but you get a young, capable, scoring five with a vagina who might work better with Carmelo. The Nets get back a guy with age and questionable knees who might keep Deron Williams from shooting himself in the face.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA umm HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[T0mShane]

I dont think the Knicks fans would go for that. I think Lopez would be a risk. He gets so lazy on the court sometimes that I think he is one of those guys that constantly needs to be challenged from his coach and teammates to play strong and play hard. I know Vince used to get on him for that to try to help him out a few years ago (which is pretty funny considering Carter would get as lazy as anyone on the court)and Johnson has already had to send him to the bench a few times as a wakeup call. He is tremendously talented around the basket and its still amazing to me he fell to the Nets in that draft but I cant see the Knicks having the leadership in place to get him to pick up his game.

True. The Knicks need a banger, anyway, with or without Amare. If you added Lopez on a front line with Anthony and Jared Jeffries, you're talking about giving up 20 dunks per game to the opposition. Amare isn't exactly Bill Russell, but he'll at least slide his feet a little bot to offer some help. Lopez clearly has no interest in anything that doesn't involve scoring.

As for Williams I have a gut feeling that next season will see him with a number of "tender ankles" and "turf toe" style injuries. The guy clearly has no desire to play in NJ and he knows all he has to do is play a few games here and there where he puts up 15 assists and does some nifty moves to make sure his free agency value isnt hurt.

I gotta give Williams credit--he tried to play through his bad wrist, even when it was clear the Nets were on cruise control. I'm actually glad they finally shut him down so he doesn't lose his mind trying to turn Anthony Morrow and Travis Outlaw into NBA players. I'm sure he's on his best behavior now, but if Prokhorov and King don't tear that team apart in the off-season and drag some free agents here this off-season, I don't see how Williams doesn't force a trade before the season even starts. Al Horford is an RFA. I wonder if they'd be stupid enough to swap him for Lopez. A young center that can get you 22 and 6 consistently HAS to have value somewhere. Hell, the Knicks signed Eddy Curry once.

[jason423]

I gotta give Williams credit--he tried to play through his bad wrist, even when it was clear the Nets were on cruise control. I'm actually glad they finally shut him down so he doesn't lose his mind trying to turn Anthony Morrow and Travis Outlaw into NBA players. I'm sure he's on his best behavior now, but if Prokhorov and King don't tear that team apart in the off-season and drag some free agents here this off-season, I don't see how Williams doesn't force a trade before the season even starts. Al Horford is an RFA. I wonder if they'd be stupid enough to swap him for Lopez. A young center that can get you 22 and 6 consistently HAS to have value somewhere. Hell, the Knicks signed Eddy Curry once.

I dont think they would ever swap Lopez for Horford (didnt he sign an extension though?). I think the Nets are going to be run very strangely these next few years because the owner is in love with stars and I dont think he understands how hard it is to convince them to go to NJ or how hard it is to make a trade for a guy. The Brooklyn thing clearly hasnt been a selling point thus far and all the billboards in NY were pretty comical considering he had a terrible team. Its one thing if he had the old Kidd Nets, but to try to push the Nets as relevant in NYC after last season was pretty worthless. Anyway I dont think Horford fits the owners criteria for a star. Thats a major step down for him.

I see him more likely to make a push for the older fading vets that are maybe let go by their teams (ie picking up Garnett and Allen if the Celtics decide to break the old guys up in a cost cutting move, or worse going after the ever fragile Yao Ming and moving Lopez to PF for the 10 games Yao suits up for) because he thinks they are marquee names. I have to think long term everything hinges now on Dwight Howard in a few years being lured to Brooklyn. I kind of think if they dont get him he will begin to contemplate selling the team.

I do kind of wonder if the Nets would trade Lopez at some point. The hard part is finding a team that wants him. He is arguably the best scoring pure center in the NBA and is one of the few guys that can play back to the basket post and play it well. But the NBA game has changed so much due to lack of talented big guys that can play the post Im not sure there are many teams that can even utilize him. Alot of the guards dont even know how to play the in and out games with centers because they never learn it at any level anymore. Teams like the Spurs, Lakers, Magic, Rockets, and Sixers would probably be interested but you are not getting anything from those teams.

[T0mShane]

I dont think they would ever swap Lopez for Horford (didnt he sign an extension though?). I think the Nets are going to be run very strangely these next few years because the owner is in love with stars and I dont think he understands how hard it is to convince them to go to NJ or how hard it is to make a trade for a guy. The Brooklyn thing clearly hasnt been a selling point thus far and all the billboards in NY were pretty comical considering he had a terrible team. Its one thing if he had the old Kidd Nets, but to try to push the Nets as relevant in NYC after last season was pretty worthless. Anyway I dont think Horford fits the owners criteria for a star. Thats a major step down for him.

I see him more likely to make a push for the older fading vets that are maybe let go by their teams (ie picking up Garnett and Allen if the Celtics decide to break the old guys up in a cost cutting move, or worse going after the ever fragile Yao Ming and moving Lopez to PF for the 10 games Yao suits up for) because he thinks they are marquee names. I have to think long term everything hinges now on Dwight Howard in a few years being lured to Brooklyn. I kind of think if they dont get him he will begin to contemplate selling the team.

I do kind of wonder if the Nets would trade Lopez at some point. The hard part is finding a team that wants him. He is arguably the best scoring pure center in the NBA and is one of the few guys that can play back to the basket post and play it well. But the NBA game has changed so much due to lack of talented big guys that can play the post Im not sure there are many teams that can even utilize him. Alot of the guards dont even know how to play the in and out games with centers because they never learn it at any level anymore. Teams like the Spurs, Lakers, Magic, Rockets, and Sixers would probably be interested but you are not getting anything from those teams.

Jason Kidd, to this day, laughs at the notion that the Nets will ever actually play in Brooklyn since they've been promising it since the day Bruce Ratner bought the club. It looks like it's finally going to happen, though. From a marketing standpoint, an NBA jersey with "Brooklyn" across the front of it will instantly become the #1 seller anywhere, and I gues it would be nice to be the star player whose name is on the back. But, you're right, it's difficult to gauge how much of a draw (if at all) playing in Brooklyn is. Pete Vescey says that most NBA players will view it the same way as they'd view a franchise on Long Island--that NYC is Manhattan and only Manhattan. I guess you could see that happening. NBA players are definitely not aspiring hipsters.

I think what Prokhorov has shown, though, is that he can be patient. He sat around and let (made?) Rod Thorn tear the team down so they'd have the cap room to lure LeBron, which obviously didn't happen. The Deron trade just fell into their laps, I think, and now there's a metric ton of urgency to see if they can keep him happy enough to walk into Brooklyn as the face of the franchise. Billy King is no genius, but I'd have to hope he'd stay away from Ming or Garnett. I agree that Prokhorov will demand a splash signing or trade, but he HAS TO have someone in his ear that will keep him from turning into the Russian Isiah Thomas...doesn't he? (lol) Realistically, I think both Williams and Lopez get traded and the Brooklyn Nets take the floor with a bunch of rookie lottery picks, hoping they quickly turn into to the new Oklahoma City Thunder. IMO, Dwight Howard will stay in Orlando or go to the Lakers. He's openly stated he has no love for NY or the cold weather, which is ballsy considering the leverage he could have gained by blowing kisses at both Dolan and Prokhorov, who would spend whatever millions they could to get him. Lopez will have value to an old-school coach like Greg Popovich who still wants to try and play inside-out. Even though the game is evolving away from the paint, there will always be some 65 year-old GM that has visions of Dolph Schayes in his head.

Speaking of Dolan's millions, aren't the Knicks all but capped out right now with Melo and Amare? I keep hearing how they're going to add Chris Paul and/or Tyson Chandler but with what cap room? Really makes you wonder if they pull the rug out from under Amare at some point and try to deal him. They signed him in the first place to keep the fanbase from rioting after losing out on LeBron, but now that they have that marquee star in Carmelo, you'd have to think Amare is almost a square peg in their plans moving forward.

[jason423]

Speaking of Dolan's millions, aren't the Knicks all but capped out right now with Melo and Amare? I keep hearing how they're going to add Chris Paul and/or Tyson Chandler but with what cap room? Really makes you wonder if they pull the rug out from under Amare at some point and try to deal him. They signed him in the first place to keep the fanbase from rioting after losing out on LeBron, but now that they have that marquee star in Carmelo, you'd have to think Amare is almost a square peg in their plans moving forward.

Right now the Knicks team is basically 2 guys (Amare and Carmelo) and nobody else under contract so Im guessing they could make a play for Paul or Chandler the way the Heat did for James, Bosh, and Wade. The problem is you then end up with the rest of the roster being mid level exception garbage guys that are either always hurt, not talented to begin with, or fading badly. I could just picture the starting 5 of Paul, Carter, Melo, Amare, and Yao with guys like Kenyon Martin, and Nazr Mohammed off the bench. Depending on how labor talks change the way the NBA cap works, I have a feeling that teams like the Knicks will be watching very closely what happens in Miami in the playoffs and then next season. Their success probably determines if other teams try to go the max Big 3 route or the smarter Celtics route with tiered salary players- Garnett as the max, Pierce slightly under, and Allen around 10 mil per season with a nice young player in Rondo also making around 10 or 11 mil- whose games fit together nicely. My guess is the smarter route for the Knicks is to find a bruiser down low to just beat people up that come in at the basket, a sharpshooter off the bench, someone like Felton to play point, and a lockdown style defender with limited offensive upside. All those types come at a reasonable cost to where you can have a competent 7 or 8 guys on the team.

[SMC]

With 2 games left in the season, it's interesting to take a look at Melo's numbers.

It averaged 19.3 att. with the Nuggets and 19.9 with the Knicks, so that's about the same. But he's upped his scoring avg from 25.2 with Nuggets to 26.5 with the Knicks. His 3 pt% is just sick in comparison, 33% to 43% with avg twice as much 3 pt attempts. His assts & TOs are about the same avg and only his rebounding has dropped 7.6 to 6.8.

Plus, I'm so glad the Knicks have Melo taking late game big shots rather than Felton.

[ECURB]

With 2 games left in the season, it's interesting to take a look at Melo's numbers.

It averaged 19.3 att. with the Nuggets and 19.9 with the Knicks, so that's about the same. But he's upped his scoring avg from 25.2 with Nuggets to 26.5 with the Knicks. His 3 pt% is just sick in comparison, 33% to 43% with avg twice as much 3 pt attempts. His assts & TOs are about the same avg and only his rebounding has dropped 7.6 to 6.8.

Plus, I'm so glad the Knicks have Melo taking late game big shots rather than Felton.

I think taking a quick look at the Nuggets proves how little Melo mattered... they replaced his 25ppg and are doing better.

Sure he puts up 25ppg but he gives up 35ppg

[madmikeisback]

I think taking a quick look at the Nuggets proves how little Melo mattered... they replaced his 25ppg and are doing better.

Sure he puts up 25ppg but he gives up 35ppg

Let see how the Nuggets do in the playoffs. The knicks are playing their best ball of the season and Melo is their best player.

[SMC]

I think taking a quick look at the Nuggets proves how little Melo mattered... they replaced his 25ppg and are doing better.

Sure he puts up 25ppg but he gives up 35ppg

LOL, that's stupid.

The Knicks actually have a better record since the trade than they did in the last 17 prior to it. Also, there is the Karl >>> D'Antoni factor.

[ECURB]

LOL, that's stupid.

The Knicks actually have a better record since the trade than they did in the last 17 prior to it. Also, there is the Karl >>> D'Antoni factor.

That is a HUGE factor... but lets not kid ourselves... Melo wastes as many shots as he makes... and takes away opportunity from others...

[JustInFudge]

That is a HUGE factor... but lets not kid ourselves... Melo wastes as many shots as he makes... and takes away opportunity from others...

You can say the same thing about every great scorer the league has seen that didnt spend all their time in the paint.

[dbatesman]

You can say the same thing about every great scorer the league has seen that didnt spend all their time in the paint.

You can say the same thing about Derrick Rose.