Clue Mafia - Game on!

[slats]

Another reveal that sounds like a complete load of horse sh*t. So now we've get everyone in the world coming out of the woodwork talking about these "deals"? And exactly how many deals is whoever the hell this person is getting to hand out in one night? Yet while I28 and JF80 both had restrictions regarding their reveal on their deals, JVOR seems to have no such thing. He also apparently had this information all along and doesn't reveal it while just sitting around and letting another player get run up to L-2 and be forced into a reveal? Is any of this play sounding even remotely legit to anyone?

There's nothing about JVOR's entire reveal that sounds even remotely real to me and I'm getting sick of following around one absurd story after another. I'd much rather follow our cop on this little debate, who we now know at best had a one night window to potentially be converted. Worst case scenario, if it turns out JVOR is telling the truth, we in all likelihood just got ourselves a 2-for-1 deal, because I can't imagine any scenario if Pac were the godfather that Lily would just hand him over to some roleless townie.

Unvote

Vote: JVOR

What do you think of Brett's reveal?

[slats]

If one of JVOR or Pac are scum, I'm inclined to vote JVOR. If we're wrong, we speed lynch Pac. It we're wrong again, we speed lynch JetsCode. And around we go.

VOTE: JVOR

Pac's only defense is that JVoR is cult, and the cult has had the ability to grow since CTM was killed N2.

Let's make sure we get anything Lily has to say about the Cult on the table before we put any credence in that defense.

[Bleedin Green]

Dig your own grave, BG. Pac IS getting revealed one way or the other. Are you sure you want your hands that dirty when that happens? None of that wifom bullsh*t later on when alignments are revealed, which I fully anticipate you doing.

I have no doubt if I'm on the wrong side here (if there is a strictly right and wrong side with so many different scum around), that I'm the next one on the block once the prime suspects in this mess get sorted out. All I know is I've seen too much blatant bullsh*t thrown out there so far this game. I've refrained from going after I28 because he's as close as we have to confirmed town, but I have no doubt in my mind half of what he has said is completely crap, and each day it's something new. Until JiF's reveal sort of cleared him I wanted I28 dead as well, I just have no patience for ridiculous reveals that treat me like I'm some sort of moron.

At this point there's no more room to waffle, it's time to take a stand on one side or the other, and your reveal reeks of crap to me and goes against a lot of other things we've already seen in this game, so I'd much rather take the cops side. Besides, I've seen numerous scum try to play my tentative nature in this game against me to try to get me to back off, and at times it has worked, which is exactly what it feels like you're trying to pull. If I'm wrong, we've in all likelihood got two scum dead to rights after that and while I'll probably have to face the music after that, so be it.

[HessStation]

Not saying they're town or scum but I don't see how bG or Barms play is even close to being helpful town. They both have had a way with the big whopper post and then scudadling out of here.

[HessStation]

Ha ninja'd by bg. glad to see back yourseld up here. What to make oif it I don't know.

[Integrity28]

I have no doubt if I'm on the wrong side here (if there is a strictly right and wrong side with so many different scum around), that I'm the next one on the block once the prime suspects in this mess get sorted out. All I know is I've seen too much blatant bullsh*t thrown out there so far this game. I've refrained from going after I28 because he's as close as we have to confirmed town, but I have no doubt in my mind half of what he has said is completely crap, and each day it's something new. Until JiF's reveal sort of cleared him I wanted I28 dead as well, I just have no patience for ridiculous reveals that treat me like I'm some sort of moron.

At this point there's no more room to waffle, it's time to take a stand on one side or the other, and your reveal reeks of crap to me and goes against a lot of other things we've already seen in this game, so I'd much rather take the cops side. Besides, I've seen numerous scum try to play my tentative nature in this game against me to try to get me to back off, and at times it has worked, which is exactly what it feels like you're trying to pull. If I'm wrong, we've in all likelihood got two scum dead to rights after that and while I'll probably have to face the music after that, so be it.

Wow are you late to the party... you are finally deciding to comment on my D1 reveal now?

Also, BG do the math... if you are wrong about JVOR, then we do have Jetscode and Pac, and not enough days to lynch them in, considering we lose 2-3 townies per night.

[Bleedin Green]

Wow are you late to the party... you are finally deciding to comment on my D1 reveal now?

Also, BG do the math... if you are wrong about JVOR, then we do have Jetscode and Pac, and not enough days to lynch them in, considering we lose 2-3 townies per night.

Seriously? I commented on it at the time dipsh*t, where have you been? And did I not just earlier today comment on how BS your new reveal sounded?

As far as doing the math, that's why I want to go with the guy I find most scummy (JVOR) as opposed to the guy he says we should (who the cop earlier cleared) just because he claims we can feel safe that he's telling the truth because otherwise we'll have him tomorrow. Consider that by your logic, if we lynch and Pac and we're wrong, then we have JVOR and what exactly?

[Verbal]

Well this sucks. I'd really like some mod input on the cult at this point in the game.

Without Lily's I'll add mine...

CTM died N2.

Usually a CL is the only one who can convert, they usually don't have a 100% success rate (usually it's much less), and they often die when trying to convert scum.

If CTM died converting scum, then the only shot he had at a conversion would've been N1. Would JVoR have been a likely target that night? Very possibly. But if everything else that's usual about a cult holds true in this game, then he'd be the lone cult member left - and he would've just lost it for his team with this play.

I will say that I'm not that concerned about the cult. I think it's very likely CTM died without being able to convert anyone.

I will also say that when I was scum in a game that also had a cult, the cult was my primary public concern. That's what I wanted the town to worry about more than anything else.

As a fake reveal, JVoR's gambit only makes sense if he's one of three left on a mafia team, and I think a five member team would be unusually large in a game with a SK and a cult, too.

Just want to toss some insight into the bolded. On both DM and MJ, mods don't usually subscribe to this rule. I know sites like mafiascum do, but I've been CL many times and my best plays have been recruiting mafia and getting inside information. If I had to lean one way or the other, I'd say that the CL could recruit scum.

[Jetscode1]

I wish, but no. UNVOTE

And does it really surprise you guys that an angry mob might have multiples of the same role?

And to address the people all thinking I'm scummy... your cases so far have been "he's inactive" and in Verbal's case "He's playing like me when I'm scum!" which has no particular bearing on me at all.

I'll wait to see what Jetscode comes up with before I cast another vote.

Just got back...wanted to touch this issue first...since it struck me as odd...Barm asks for my input...at least six hours after I detailed my investigations...not sure what else your looking for...like to hear which way your thinking...

Thanks in advance

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Seriously? I commented on it at the time dipsh*t, where have you been? And did I not just earlier today comment on how BS your new reveal sounded?

As far as doing the math, that's why I want to go with the guy I find most scummy (JVOR) as opposed to the guy he says we should (who the cop earlier cleared) just because he claims we can feel safe that he's telling the truth because otherwise we'll have him tomorrow. Consider that by your logic, if we lynch and Pac and we're wrong, then we have JVOR and what exactly?

And you're considering the cop's report to mean more than what I put out there why? He was outted day one in a cult game. And honestly, he hasn't played much of a pro-town game.

If you were aware of the math then you don't think you should weigh the options more before immediately going after my reveal? Interesting that you seem to be so sure about my reveal being fake over his at this point.

Acting like i'm much scummier than Pac is funny considering his defense is that i'm probably cult. Not only that, you know very well that if I was mafia i'd have little incentive to do the reveal right now trying to get Pac lynched versus someone else that was under more pressure.

[Bleedin Green]

What do you think of Brett's reveal?

Torn. We've got Doggin's suped-up role blocker, Dan's redirector and now a mirror? On one hand it does kind of fit into the scheme of things, but it also seems like a lot to have and I feel like you'd hardly ever have a night action taking place as intended, especially as the game went on. One thing that made me feel a little better about it is he had a lengthy response which seemed pretty quick after the pressure, and I'm not sure he would've pulled a role out of his a$$ with an explanation of his actions to suit it that quickly. I did find the whole explanation of brett protecting himself and not JC the last two nights a bit odd, but I also don't know why scum would say that (but you kind of get into a WIFOM there).

[Integrity28]

Seriously? I commented on it at the time dipsh*t, where have you been? And did I not just earlier today comment on how BS your new reveal sounded?

As far as doing the math, that's why I want to go with the guy I find most scummy (JVOR) as opposed to the guy he says we should (who the cop earlier cleared) just because he claims we can feel safe that he's telling the truth because otherwise we'll have him tomorrow. Consider that by your logic, if we lynch and Pac and we're wrong, then we have JVOR and what exactly?

By my logic:

If we lynch Pac now, and he is town, then we need only one night/day cycle to lynch JVOR. And we leave Jetscode alone.

If we lynch Pac now, and he is scum, then we need only one night/day cycle to lynch Jetscode. And we leave JVOR alone.

If we lynch JVOR now, and he is town, then we need TWO night/day cycles to lynch both Pac and Jetscode.

If we lynch JVOR now, and he is scum, then we got scum. We still don't know if Pac is town, or Jetscode.

Since night/day cycles have resulted in as many as 3 townie deaths per - 2 night/day cycles would mean 2 lynches and as many as 6 NKs. Game over. If the lynch is going to be between Pac and JVOR, IMO, its got to be Pac, his death is more conclusive.

[slats]

Just want to toss some insight into the bolded. On both DM and MJ, mods don't usually subscribe to this rule. I know sites like mafiascum do, but I've been CL many times and my best plays have been recruiting mafia and getting inside information. If I had to lean one way or the other, I'd say that the CL could recruit scum.

Fair enough.

What about the effectiveness of the CL to convert players, percentage-wise? You think a CL would have a 100% success rate? 50%?

Would a cult be able to continue to grow after the CL dies?

Would a player retain his role after being converted to cult?

[Bleedin Green]

And you're considering the cop's report to mean more than what I put out there why? He was outted day one in a cult game. And honestly, he hasn't played much of a pro-town game.

If you were aware of the math then you don't think you should weigh the options more before immediately going after my reveal? Interesting that you seem to be so sure about my reveal being fake over his at this point.

Acting like i'm much scummier than Pac is funny considering his defense is that i'm probably cult. Not only that, you know very well that if I was mafia i'd have little incentive to do the reveal right now trying to get Pac lynched versus someone else that was under more pressure.

We have the cult leader dead night two, a player alleging to have protected the cop from conversion night one and another player who seems pretty convinced that the cult leader's night two death was due to trying to convert scum. You're talking about an already small window which a number of people seem to have explanations for why he was an unlikely conversion during that time period, and I doubt that they're all teammates, so I'm not assuming anything about our cop being converted. Considering that he gave us mafia just yesterday, I have no reason not to believe him. As for you? I really have no reason to believe you. Nothing about your reveal really lines up at all and all of the details seem to conflict with the way everything else has played out in this game.

You said you're roleless, right? Well if your ability was trigged by a day action, why weren't we told? We were informed in-thread by the mod of every other day action. So it must have been a night action. Were you offered a deal by the same person as I28 and JF80? If so why does it seem their restrictions don't apply to you? And while we don't know about JF80, we know I28's deal was offered last night, how did this deal-maker manage to offer multiple deals in one night? If you weren't offered a deal by this person, then where did this deal come from? There are waaaaaayyyyy too many holes in your story for me to believe it for a second. I certainly hope I'm not wrong, but I really don't think I am.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

We have the cult leader dead night two, a player alleging to have protected the cop from conversion night one and another player who seems pretty convinced that the cult leader's night two death was due to trying to convert scum. You're talking about an already small window which a number of people seem to have explanations for why he was an unlikely conversion during that time period, and I doubt that they're all teammates, so I'm not assuming anything about our cop being converted. Considering that he gave us mafia just yesterday, I have no reason not to believe him. As for you? I really have no reason to believe you. Nothing about your reveal really lines up at all and all of the details seem to conflict with the way everything else has played out in this game.

You said you're roleless, right? Well if your ability was trigged by a day action, why weren't we told? We were informed in-thread by the mod of every other day action. So it must have been a night action. Were you offered a deal by the same person as I28 and JF80? If so why does it seem their restrictions don't apply to you? And while we don't know about JF80, we know I28's deal was offered last night, how did this deal-maker manage to offer multiple deals in one night? If you weren't offered a deal by this person, then where did this deal come from? There are waaaaaayyyyy too many holes in your story for me to believe it for a second. I certainly hope I'm not wrong, but I really don't think I am.

Wasn't a day action. I told you what I was told. Also, how is dying at night not a restriction in your eyes?

[Jetscode1]

Trying to digest today's wild events...wow...have we ever had so many reveals?

JVoR, your pushing a pretty wild theory ..I'm lucky to still be here after my reveal on day 1...I've ignored the cult conversion conversation...because I have no info on how that works cause I never played a game with a cult...looks like some of you have actual experience...all I know...is I got lucky and found scum on N2 and then I provide the names of two players cleared on N1/3 (after the town requested) and now you want to throw suspicision my way...wow...serious?

[Bleedin Green]

By my logic:

If we lynch Pac now, and he is town, then we need only one night/day cycle to lynch JVOR. And we leave Jetscode alone.

If we lynch Pac now, and he is scum, then we need only one night/day cycle to lynch Jetscode. And we leave JVOR alone.

If we lynch JVOR now, and he is town, then we need TWO night/day cycles to lynch both Pac and Jetscode.

If we lynch JVOR now, and he is scum, then we got scum. We still don't know if Pac is town, or Jetscode.

Since night/day cycles have resulted in as many as 3 townie deaths per - 2 night/day cycles would mean 2 lynches and as many as 6 NKs. Game over. If the lynch is going to be between Pac and JVOR, IMO, its got to be Pac, his death is more conclusive.

This is probably the last response I have in me until I get back home, need to wrap up work, but just wanted to get to this. Not sure I'm following your logic here man. So you think we're down to the last of the scum? Because if not, your point is if we find scum today, we're in better shape then if we don't. I obviously agree with that, thus my vote for who I find to be the more scummy of the two, however the number of days it takes to lynch these guys is irrelevant unless you think the only scum left in this game are amongst JVOR, Pac and JC.

If we lynch Pac and he's town the fact that we only have one days worth of lynching (JVOR) is NOT a positive. There's still clearly more than one scum out there, so the fact that we're done with known scum after tomorrow isn't good news. Are we better off getting it right today? Of course, but we have to figure out who that is, because the math alone isn't getting us there (and we clearly disagree on the impact of the math).

[Integrity28]

We have the cult leader dead night two, a player alleging to have protected the cop from conversion night one and another player who seems pretty convinced that the cult leader's night two death was due to trying to convert scum. You're talking about an already small window which a number of people seem to have explanations for why he was an unlikely conversion during that time period, and I doubt that they're all teammates, so I'm not assuming anything about our cop being converted. Considering that he gave us mafia just yesterday, I have no reason not to believe him. As for you? I really have no reason to believe you. Nothing about your reveal really lines up at all and all of the details seem to conflict with the way everything else has played out in this game.

You said you're roleless, right? Well if your ability was trigged by a day action, why weren't we told? We were informed in-thread by the mod of every other day action. So it must have been a night action. Were you offered a deal by the same person as I28 and JF80? If so why does it seem their restrictions don't apply to you? And while we don't know about JF80, we know I28's deal was offered last night, how did this deal-maker manage to offer multiple deals in one night? If you weren't offered a deal by this person, then where did this deal come from? There are waaaaaayyyyy too many holes in your story for me to believe it for a second. I certainly hope I'm not wrong, but I really don't think I am.

So I agree with the grounds that there are a ton of holes in JVOR's reveal - that said, from what I can figure, Pac's lynching is more conclusive no? See above.

Unless I'm just not seeing the whole picture, lynching JVOR first and being wrong, doesn't allow us the time we'd need to rebound from being wrong about him. Thus I think Pac's lynch is more conclusive.

[Verbal]

Please take my answers with a bucket of salt, as I'm not Lily. Though, if I was I'm pretty sure I'd never leave my house. But that's because I'm a dirty bastard and I'd be....err....exploring? Yeah. Back on topic. My thoughts in blue.

Fair enough.

What about the effectiveness of the CL to convert players, percentage-wise? You think a CL would have a 100% success rate? 50%? As powered up as the town appears (based on reveals and coroner), I'd say the CL was 100%.

Would a cult be able to continue to grow after the CL dies? Probably not - usually the CL is the recruiter and that ability dies with him.

Would a player retain his role after being converted to cult? Probably. It's usually just a win condition change.

[Verbal]

So I agree with the grounds that there are a ton of holes in JVOR's reveal - that said, from what I can figure, Pac's lynching is more conclusive no? See above.

Unless I'm just not seeing the whole picture, lynching JVOR first and being wrong, doesn't allow us the time we'd need to rebound from being wrong about him. Thus I think Pac's lynch is more conclusive.

I think you are right about this. We find out more based on Pac's lynch, and a wrong decision doesn't set us back as far as a wrong decision on JVoR would.

[HessStation]

My guess is one of the things that have to do with NK's is the rooms we're in. So although we've seen as many as 3 nk I think it depends on the rooms. Just mentioning this to the people who are trying to figure out future odds.

[Integrity28]

This is probably the last response I have in me until I get back home, need to wrap up work, but just wanted to get to this. Not sure I'm following your logic here man. So you think we're down to the last of the scum? Because if not, your point is if we find scum today, we're in better shape then if we don't. I obviously agree with that, thus my vote for who I find to be the more scummy of the two, however the number of days it takes to lynch these guys is irrelevant unless you think the only scum left in this game are amongst JVOR, Pac and JC.

If we lynch Pac and he's town the fact that we only have one days worth of lynching (JVOR) is NOT a positive. There's still clearly more than one scum out there, so the fact that we're done with known scum after tomorrow isn't good news. Are we better off getting it right today? Of course, but we have to figure out who that is, because the math alone isn't getting us there (and we clearly disagree on the impact of the math).

I don't think we are down to the last scum, in fact both these guys could be scum. It seems odd to me that JVOR kind of out of nowhere made the decision a choice between him and Pac.

I don't have a vote of my own in this day phase, so I'm basically picking the brains of everyone finally weighing in. Ultimately, yeah, we need to get it right today - I'm just pondering which lynch, if wrong, has worse consequences, given the point in the game we are at.

Frankly I have no idea what the count is on votes, JVOR could be lynched already for crying out loud.

[HessStation]

...and with my last post I mean it's a waste of time trying to figure out the math when a different number of people die every night.

[Integrity28]

UNOFFICIAL Vote count:

JVOR (3) – Pac, BG, JF80

Pac (3) – JVOR, Hess, Bret

Verbal (1) – JC

Barm (1) - Verbal

Not voting: Barm, Slats, I28

With 11 alive you need 6 to lynch.

Deadline Wednesday 8PM MST/10PM EST

(I'm not sure how accurate this is, looked like some of you might have forgotten to unvote on some, but this is a ballpark.)

I have still not been told who I must vote for, but Lily is apparently without computer so... ???

[slats]

If we lynch Pac, and he's...

Scum, but not GF, then we have him, Jetscode, and a major FOS on BG.

Scum, GF, then we got him and a major FOS on BG.

Town, we have JVoR, and his coroner revealed alignment will tell us more.

If we lynch JVoR, and he's...

Scum, we got him and that's it.

Cult, we might have a cult problem on our hands.

Town, we have Pac next, and then have to see if he's the GF or not, etc.

Pac is focused on JVoR possibly being cult with CTM pulling the strings - but that seems like whacked paranoia, or scum really grasping at straws, to me. Really do not believe we could have more than two cult tops (and very possibly none at all), while a gambit like this only makes sense to me if it's coming from a scum group with at least three members left.

We're at 11 players now.

We lynch a townie, we're down to 10.

Three people have died the past two nights. CTM may or may not have off'ed himself, and the third kill last night makes that less clear, but three more kills and we could be down to 7 players tomorrow. If it's nothing but dead townies, the town is pretty much at end game right there. Best hope is that the scum needs to try to figure out and fire on each other, I'd think.

Lynching Pac and being right about it definitely nets us more right away. But I think people have to go with whose story they believe the most. Right now, I definitely lean towards believing JVoR - primarily because I didn't see him being that close to a lynch when he revealed, and I don't think he could be part of a team with the numbers to make this play work for them today. I buy sitting on the information to see if he could snare anyone else. I've been duped before, and I'll be duped again, but I tend to believe him.

[Integrity28]

Pac is focused on JVoR possibly being cult with CTM pulling the strings - but that seems like whacked paranoia, or scum really grasping at straws, to me. Really do not believe we could have more than two cult tops (and very possibly none at all), while a gambit like this only makes sense to me if it's coming from a scum group with at least three members left.

Is it possible that Pac is scum, JVOR is cult? What reasons would these 2 alignments have for going after each other? Are there any?

[Integrity28]

This was when JVOR switched from Pac to Verbal, then back...

Vote: Pac

Well, so far a bunch of my gut reads have been fairly accurate so i'm going to keep going with it. Pac's play smells completely scummy to me.

^^^ Votes Pac immediately to start this day phase.

I also think we should take today to carefully consider the lynch. There's been multiple deaths in each night scene every night so far. We're getting dangerously close to end game for the town.

^^^ Starts talk of end game, which struck me as odd.

He should release it. There is no guarantee town has a numbers advantage tomorrow. We already know there is a cult with indeterminate numbers. Possible multiple scum teams or serial killer. This may or may not be end game for town today.

^^^ Agrees that Jetscode should release his investigations. Which happened, and then Jetscode voted Verbal. So at this poing Jetscode has told us he had: N1/N3 slats/pac both town

Well onto option 2 I guess. But for the record, following the Outted cop blindly when there is a cult is setting yourself up for disaster. He's easy pickings, and he could easily be yanking our chains. (See: CTM robbing us blind in EY's zombie game) I still don't buy Pac as town, honestly. His play is completely off, and while his excuse may be 100% genuine, I don't think the way he's played is a result of what he said. It's more than passive play with him, his reactions to things have been completely untownlike. Maybe he's godfather or something. If I'm wrong, i'm wrong.

Vote: Verbal

^^^ This is where I start questioning JVOR's play. If JVOR knew that Pac was 100% scum at this point, why the **** would he ever switch his vote to Verbal? Especially after Jetscode says that Pac is town? Yeah, the whole post makes a case for Pac being scum, and doesn't even mention Verbal even though that is who the vote is for, and even suggests Pac is Godfather. But wouldn't a GF show up as town to all investigations? If so, it doesn't make sense to suggest Pac is GF if you know he is 100% scum. EDIT: Right here is where you reveal your role, the deal and the investigation you got, not move your vote.

Even more interesting here is if you see JC call Pac town, and you know he is 100% scum, then why the **** would you change your vote to follow JC? Especially when you consider JVOR implies JC can't be trusted in his reveal too no?

Unvote: VERBAL Vote: PAC

I'm going with my gut on this one. If I become a laughingstock over it so be it.

^^^ Then he moves his vote back to Pac, and gives a half-hearted "if I get laughed at so be it" defeatist comment... now let me ask this... IF ANY OF YOU HAD A 100% SCUM investigation on on Pac, is this how you would vote him?

He votes Pac, unvotes Pac, votes Verbal behind Jetscode's lead but says Pac is Godfather, then unvotes Verbal and votes Pac in a ho-hum manner, then later he reveals he has a 100% scum investigation on Pac and that Jetscode is probably scum too (even though he followed his vote on Verbal.

Right now, I don't necessarily believe that either is town, it might be a case of a gambit - or cult vs. scum? Either way, JVOR's play here gives me serious doubts about whether or not he knew Pac was 100% scum to start the day.

[slats]

Is it possible that Pac is scum, JVOR is cult? What reasons would these 2 alignments have for going after each other? Are there any?

Definitely.

Cult would need to get scum lynched because cult usually doesn't have NK abilities. All the anti-town alignments need to off each other, too. Hopefully that benefits us tonight.

[Integrity28]

Definitely.

Cult would need to get scum lynched because cult usually doesn't have NK abilities. All the anti-town alignments need to off each other, too. Hopefully that benefits us tonight.

Ah, wasn't sure about that... then in that case, I think we can lynch either of these boobs. I don't think either is town.

[Pac]

If we lynch Pac, and he's...

Scum, but not GF, then we have him, Jetscode, and a major FOS on BG.

Scum, GF, then we got him and a major FOS on BG.

Town, we have JVoR, and his coroner revealed alignment will tell us more.

If we lynch JVoR, and he's...

Scum, we got him and that's it.

Cult, we might have a cult problem on our hands.

Town, we have Pac next, and then have to see if he's the GF or not, etc.

Pac is focused on JVoR possibly being cult with CTM pulling the strings - but that seems like whacked paranoia, or scum really grasping at straws, to me. Really do not believe we could have more than two cult tops (and very possibly none at all), while a gambit like this only makes sense to me if it's coming from a scum group with at least three members left.

We're at 11 players now.

We lynch a townie, we're down to 10.

Three people have died the past two nights. CTM may or may not have off'ed himself, and the third kill last night makes that less clear, but three more kills and we could be down to 7 players tomorrow. If it's nothing but dead townies, the town is pretty much at end game right there. Best hope is that the scum needs to try to figure out and fire on each other, I'd think.

Lynching Pac and being right about it definitely nets us more right away. But I think people have to go with whose story they believe the most. Right now, I definitely lean towards believing JVoR - primarily because I didn't see him being that close to a lynch when he revealed, and I don't think he could be part of a team with the numbers to make this play work for them today. I buy sitting on the information to see if he could snare anyone else. I've been duped before, and I'll be duped again, but I tend to believe him.

Well excuse my "whacked paranoia" but you have to look at it from my perspective. I am who I said I am - roleless townie with the Conservatory being the carrot dangled in front of me all game.

Last night I listed off my impressions of everyone with you, Brett, and JVoR being the most suspect. Today JC comes back and clears you, Brett reveals, which leaves me with JVoR. A short time after I vote him he suddenly remembers I'm "100% scum" and decides to lay it out for everyone with a semi-believable scenario about a "deal" he was offered.

When Vic was given the name of scum there was no "deal".. he said it simply fell in his lap. Now on the heels of the Apes supposed deal we're supposed to believe JVoR got one too? as well as JF80??? I don't know about you but Monty Hall hasn't come knocking on my door.

I was trying to think of how JVoR's unprovoked attack makes sense and came to the conclusion he may have been converted and still has recruitment power. If that's true they could be 4 strong with recruit another recruit tonight (especially now that they know who the mirror is). If they've converted scum then they can manipulate who they want to shoot at which could possibly win the game for them.

Does JVoR's play today not reek of a CTM move? What better cleared townie to throw under the bus for CTM then the person who routinely kicks his a$$ in this game - me.

[Lily]

I'm back home with many pages to catch up on....

[Pac]

Another thing to consider is that JVoR was involved in a highly publicized "fight" early on which made him somewhat of a sympathetic figure. CTM would use that knowledge when recruiting him as it's very unlikely he was getting lynched the next couple days.

note! I don't give a crap why there was an argument. I like both dudes and don't care who said what. I'm simply saying that a devious player would factor that into the equation when determining who they were going to recruit. Sound like CTM to any of you?

[Lily]

This is full on conspiracy theory.

Pac could be GF. That would suck.

@ Lily-Mod:

Can anyone other than the Cult Leader convert players to cult?

Would a player retain his role/abilities after being converted?

Thanks!

What made you go from thinking you might be the only protection, to not thinking that, in one short day phase?

I should PAFO both of those questions, but I will answer the second one. No, they would not retain their abilities.

[Lily]

@Lily Mod

Would you tell us when Conversions are successful?

It's possible that CTM had a percentage based function and i'm rambling like a lunatic.

No, I wouldn't

[Integrity28]

Welcome back Lily... I hope you bought a Mac.

Here goes: VOTE I28

EDIT: Like I said earlier, my guess is whoever picked me didn't know I could blab about the deal if I had revealed already. So there we go, I traded a self-vote for a random night action.