Gooddell: Time Looms to Cancel First NFL Preseason Game

[Bugg]

Deal in good faith. I needed a laugh.

Are the players dealing in good faith? In court?

They werent steamrolled in 2006 when Upshaw basically secured them 60% of NFL revenue after some expenses were taken off the top. The owners got corn holed in that deal, but they appeased the NFLPA to keep the NFL going.

So, you dont like the NFL CBA and want the NFL to look like the NBA. 17 teams are losing money in the NBA and they are heading for a lockout.

The NBA has never been more unpopular and I dont know why youd want the NFL to follow their shyty business model.

You forget that the owners have one more card to play. They can simply closed down and go out of business in lieu of losing money. The Bills have one foot in the grave already. Some owners who own their stadiums will just have to find other ways to fill them. Its every business owners right to go out of business and it will all be brought on by the players, D Smith and Tom Shane.

There is absoulutely no objective proof that even one of the 32 owners is losing money, or has cash flow problems. NONE. Quite the contrary; with the $9 billion + in revenues, much of it TV money that comes in even before anyone sells a ticket, even idiot lucky sperm club guys like Mara, Bidwill, Woody et al would be hardrpressed to not make money hand over fist.

[T0mShane]

Deal in good faith. I needed a laugh.

Are the players dealing in good faith? In court?

They need to have that stick in order to even get a spot at the table. The owners are in knowing violation of traditional federal labor practices. The players willingly consent to work under those conditions based on the contract they are seeking to agree to. This is the foundation for, and reason for the existence of, the CBA in the first place. It's Square One.

They werent steamrolled in 2006 when Upshaw basically secured them 60% of NFL revenue after some expenses were taken off the top. The owners got corn holed in that deal, but they appeased the NFLPA to keep the NFL going.

This is revisionist. At the time, the owners danced a jig when that contract was signed, as it is easily the most lopsided contract in favor of ownership in any of the major sports. They don't like it now because it guarantees percentage stake (which was a concession made in trade for keeping contracts unguaranteed, unlike baseball and basketball). That percentage stake is growing and they don't want to end up with the $30 million dollar-per-year player. Again, the contract has worked out beautifully for the owners up until now. This is just the prelude to the owners going after each other over profit sharing.

So, you dont like the NFL CBA and want the NFL to look like the NBA. 17 teams are losing money in the NBA and they are heading for a lockout.

The NBA has never been more unpopular and I dont know why youd want the NFL to follow their shyty business model.

I do not want the NFL to look like the NBA, and I especially don't want it to look like MLB, which is where it's headed. The Cowboys want to be the Yankees and they can't do it under the old CBA because of profit sharing. If the owners get their way, it would be catastrophic to competitive balance in the NFL.

You forget that the owners have one more card to play. They can simply closed down and go out of business in lieu of losing money. The Bills have one foot in the grave already. Some owners who own their stadiums will just have to find other ways to fill them. Its every business owners right to go out of business and it will all be brought on by the players, D Smith and Tom Shane.

No one believes that the owners will do that. Do you?

[Green DNA]

Most fans don't give a crap about the preseason - in fact season ticket holders will probably be happy to not have to pay for them

The preseason's a non-issue for just about everyone but the owners, who use them to rip off their most loyal fans.

What a tool this guy is. Haha!

This. At $250 per game plus another $25 for parking, I'm on board, cancel away!!

[ECURB]

This. At $250 per game plus another $25 for parking, I'm on board, cancel away!!

Yeah I am all for losing pre-season... lol

Just get the deal done in time to have at least 1 month before the first real game for "training camp"

[Green DNA]

I don't think the entire union is going to fold because a handful of idiots can't manage their money.

Divide and conquer. Once the players start fragmenting, it's over, they may as well run up the white flag.

[JetsFanInDenver]

I don't know that it makes him sound desperate at all. I think it is making him sound more resolved than anything, letting the players know that this is going the wrong way and games will start to be canceled. I highly doubt any owners are borrowing a few hundred thousand at 20-30% interest to keep them afloat until a deal is reached the way we are reading some players are.

On the contrary, the lockout has gone exactly the way the owners had thought it would.Lose in Minnesota and win in St Louis. Its boiled down to be a battle of attrition. The players (not all) are hanging on by a thread with no income. They are used to a certain lifestyle thats very expensive and the owners know that. The longer this draws out, the worse it is for the players and their solidarity to fight the owners.

If the NFL season was canceled (and it wont be) I think that most NFL fans will gravitate towards college football.

Not quite. The owners never would have wanted to be in a situation where they were in court. The courts prevented them from having access to the TV revenues for next season that robbed them of a very big edge they had over players in these negotiations. On top of that the players have filed to award them at least $707 million in damages, too. If that happens that's a lot of leverage. And this whole thing will take sometime to work itself through and it may open a can of worms when it comes to proving economic justification in courts.

If at this time anybody on the owners side of negotiations think this has gone as per even their most conservative expectations, they are just delusional.

Its true players will be impacted financially more that the owners but that's where DeMaurice Smith has been smart in making this not just about money but the greed of the owners and how the players are being taken for a ride by the greedy owners. And while some players with financial obligations like child support, etc maybe impacted these are not minimum wage earners we are talking about. These guys are in better position to ride out the storm than in any other labor dispute.

[Lil Bit Special]

Like what?

Spend time with my wife (getting married this weekend so we'll be newlywed's during the season... after this year I wont want to do this)

Read

Watch Tv

Watch Porn

Work in the yard

Hang out with Gainzo

Help little old ladies cross the street

And when baseball ends in october, hockey starts.

[Maxman]

Spend time with my wife (getting married this weekend so we'll be newlywed's during the season... after this year I wont want to do this)

Read

Watch Tv

Watch Porn

Work in the yard

Hang out with Gainzo

Help little old ladies cross the street

And when baseball ends in october, hockey starts.

OMG I can't believe I didn't know this. Is this really true?????

Do you really help old ladies cross the street? That's so nice.

[flgreen]

if NCAA was smart they would schedule a few big games on Sunday afternoon

[Garb]

I don't know who the hell Goodell is trying to appeal to here. Most fans don't give a crap about the preseason - in fact season ticket holders will probably be happy to not have to pay for them - and the players don't start cashing checks until the regular season starts.

The preseason's a non-issue for just about everyone but the owners, who use them to rip off their most loyal fans.

What a tool this guy is. Haha!

This! Honestly, losing two pre-season games would make most season ticket holders happy. One of the biggest gripes that season ticket holder have is paying full price for pre-season games.

[Bleedin Green]

I actually think this was a smart ploy by him. Sure nobody watches the preseason games and people hate to pay for them, but right now the fans will go insane if they turn on ESPN and see the headline that week 1 of the preseason has been cancelled, even if they wouldnt have watched 5 minutes of a preseason game this year. It makes the whole thought of no NFL more of a reality. JMO, but I think D. Smith comes off like a total fool to the fans because of the tact he took and has swung the public opinion either to the owners or to a neutral corner when it should have been on the players side. All the rhetoric about players starving and the deadly and short nature of the game followed by countless lawsuits simply cant make any sense to the guy working a crummy 25-30K job breathing in all kinds of chemicals and other garbage that are going to beat him up in his life too. And its going to take him 10 years to make what an NFL player makes in 1. Statements like the one Goodell is making are basically showing the NFL in a good light. Saying we want to deal and this guy wont come to the table. All it does is swing more of the public sentiment to the owners.

Very well said, and I agree with all of it. From a PR standpoint, the players have done just about everything wrong so far, and while the owners certainly aren't making the greatest decisions all the time either, they're doing a better job of the two, and it's keeping what should have been a slam dunk of everyone siding with the players to making that less and less by the day. At this point I think the general consensus these days is that both sides are a bunch of greedy assholes and wants them all to shut up and get the NFL back in business. And don't think for the second that owners aren't completely content with that being the perception.

[Lil Bit Special]

OMG I can't believe I didn't know this. Is this really true?????

Do you really help old ladies cross the street? That's so nice.

I will if AND ONLY IF the NFL cancels games.

[bitonti]

this is not a strike

this is a lock out

there is a difference

the players want to work

the owners want to starve the players into a deal they prefer

both sides will sacrifice games... the only ones who care about keeping the season intact are the fans.

[joebabyny]

Not about the courts, dude. The only thing the courts provide is the leverage that the players use where they rightly point out that the NFL operates outside the constraints of legal federal labor practices. It's just a sword they want to dangle over the table to get the owners to deal in good faith, otherwise, they'd be steamrolled. Having the courts (essentially) back them on this point keeps them from being steamrolled. That Bush's boys in the 8th Circuit chose to extend the lockout does little to affect the fact that there's a de facto antitrust exemption in place for the owners. Look at what the NBAPA did already--they went right to the NLRB, skipping all the nonsense that the owners are putting the NFL through. That's skipping over mommy and going straight to daddy to lower the hammer.

Bottom line, there is no picket line for players to cross, and there's no democracy within the NFLPA(ish), so it doesn't matter if a handful of lower-rung guys start whining that they had their Escalades repo'ed. The lockout won't be lifted until DeMaurice puts his signature on a contract, and that's not happening anytime soon. As far as attrition, you're right that the players have less to work with--but that gets less and less true as the season gets closer and owners start missing their revenues while the bills start to roll in for the debt service on stadiums that they're keeping dark. If you think the dissension will get ugly for the players in two months, wait until Jerry Richardson and Ralph Wilson start having to reach into their personal bank accounts to pay the millions of dollars in expenses to hold onto their empty stadiums. These owners hate each other already. Watch what happens to them when they start losing their shirts.

Dee Smith made this very personal, said a lot of stupid stuff, and as a litigator with no union or labor negotiation experience he foolishly went right "to the mattresses" as he called it. He should have known from the beginning that the 8th circuit was going to rule against him, most legal experts did as I have read. He is really just holding out hope that he can win this in the courts at this point, and that is a very tenuous bet he is making. He really was the wrong guy for the job, it came down to a handful of NFL player reps who make the decision that got enamored with a impassioned speech. Goodell isn't Tags, but Dee Smith is the real buffoon in sheep's clothing here. He should have NEVER went down the road to decertification and litigation, doing so just forced this on both sides to be sorted out by the courts, and the courts take TIME, not 1-2 months, but real time.

As far as this not getting fixed until Dee Smith signs, well, I think at some point he will be yanked from his job and someone else will be put in. I don't see how you can get the horse back in the barn here, he has made to strong a play here and he won't back down.

[joebabyny]

As one of those guys who works with chemicals and is going to die young and painfully due to my work conditions, I've found the players' position to be a pretty easy sell. If my boss walked up to us and told us that he wants to slash our salaries despite the company making record profits, we'd lynch him.

Record profits and record revenue are 2 different things. To say profits are at a record high is conjecture, unless those numbers have been released which i honestly am unaware of.

[jason423]

This is revisionist. At the time, the owners danced a jig when that contract was signed, as it is easily the most lopsided contract in favor of ownership in any of the major sports. They don't like it now because it guarantees percentage stake (which was a concession made in trade for keeping contracts unguaranteed, unlike baseball and basketball). That percentage stake is growing and they don't want to end up with the $30 million dollar-per-year player. Again, the contract has worked out beautifully for the owners up until now. This is just the prelude to the owners going after each other over profit sharing.

100% true. The reason DeMaurice Smith ended up head of the NFLPA instead of Troy Vincent was because the players felt they got railroaded in the last deal and that Upshaw forced them to take a terrible deal to avoid a work stoppage. Im pretty sure that opt out clause was more or less put into the CBA as a selling point to the players rather than the owners. By 2007 the cap skyrocketed, the revenue streams were changing with big market teams making much more than the small market ones with the new stadiums and merchandise deals, and ownership was like "what just happened". I do think its funny that people point to the Bills and Bengals owners as visionaries which is why they didnt sign it. They just didnt sign it because they are difficult and basically want a deal where the cap would be a fixed amount of very low money or something tied into the revenue stream of each team when coming up with the floor.

I also think the other problem, and this again is owner vs owner or owner vs agent more than owner vs player, is that certain teams and agents found ways to really circumvent the cap which made extremely unbalanced payrolls and also increased the existing price for free agents. The various NLTBE bonuses, the use of end of year incentives to push cap room forward, tricks with in-season re-negotiations to utilize cap room, voidable years, funky bonus structures, etc...I still find it hard to believe that all 32 owners will fully agree on any set of rules, but I have a feeling they will attempt to close certain loopholes in the cap.

[joebabyny]

We have no idea what is going on here? The owners locked out the players.

The owners HAD TO lock out the players once the union decertified, otherwise they would have been in breach of a bunch of anti trust laws that they were rightfully given an exemption from previously. To not lock out the player could have opened them up to easy anti trust lawsuits from every player in the league.

The two sides are having a hard time agreeing to a new CBA.

Are BOTH sides having a hard time AGREEING? Or is one side reaching out and the other is not acting in good faith to negotiate? Who is to say which or either side is trying to actively find a solution. I do know that as this is playing out, it seems to me a lot of the "insiders" are starting to really point their fingers at the union and specifically Dee Smith as the biggest roadblock, that they aren't really interested in truly negotiating.

And although there is no guarantee of games being played, the Jets asked us for 50% of our season ticket money.

I think the owners had no real choice but to act like everything was eventually going to fall into place with a season happening. Yeah it would have seemed like a nice gesture to not charge the fans until this was worked out, but it would have also sent a message that the owners were not really trying to make a season happen. Also, by continuing more or less with the ticket payment structure and timeframe, everyone is well aware quite far in advance exactly when their payments are due. To make them dependent on when the new cba is agreed on would be chaos as it could happen at any moment. What would happen if it was a week before the season opens? Are you really going to send out invoices of between $4,000 and $25,000 or a lot more and tell people they have 24-48 hours to fedex a check or plop down an amex card to secure your tix? Think about the public reaction and pr ramifications of that scenario. These are issues that we don't really think about. On the surface it all kinda seems very simple and cut-n-dry, but it really isn't.

[joebabyny]

If Goodell really wanted to settle this, he could lift the lockout and then pick up the phone and call Smith for a negotiation in a NY or DC hotel in the next 5 minutes. Heck, even one of his owners thinks this lockout is bullsh*t-

"Case in point, check out Jim Irsay's Tweet today:

Jeff Saturday and I could get this thing done on cocktail napkins over a long lunch at Rick's Boatyard. It's not that hard!"

A lot of people are reporting that Dee Smith is hanging onto a court victory and just avoiding negotiations with the owners, he wants to force his will onto the owners through the courts. This does fit in with his experience as a litigator, he has no real labor negotiating experience.

[joebabyny]

There is absoulutely no objective proof that even one of the 32 owners is losing money, or has cash flow problems. NONE. Quite the contrary; with the $9 billion + in revenues, much of it TV money that comes in even before anyone sells a ticket, even idiot lucky sperm club guys like Mara, Bidwill, Woody et al would be hardrpressed to not make money hand over fist.

I think it is widely understood that NFL owners don't really make money on owning an NFL team, they are already rich and NFL ownership is their way of enjoying that wealth, there are much better ways to make that money work for you than NFL ownership. OF course people love to talk about valuations and how much the franchise like the Pats has increased since Kraft bought it, but those aren't real earnings, he only realizes that if he sells, and for a guy like that he isn't flipping it for a buck so it doesn't really matter how much the team's value has increased. And with all the TV rev pretty much going to the players, Woody (until the new stadium) was about mid pack when it came to gameday revenues, where the owners make the bulk of the money they actually get to keep.

So yeah, revenue has increased, but a lot of teams have also increased their spending as well, Tell Jerry Jones he had record "profits" in the last 3 years and see what his reaction is.

[joebabyny]

Not quite. The owners never would have wanted to be in a situation where they were in court. The courts prevented them from having access to the TV revenues for next season that robbed them of a very big edge they had over players in these negotiations. On top of that the players have filed to award them at least $707 million in damages, too. If that happens that's a lot of leverage. And this whole thing will take sometime to work itself through and it may open a can of worms when it comes to proving economic justification in courts.

If at this time anybody on the owners side of negotiations think this has gone as per even their most conservative expectations, they are just delusional.

Its true players will be impacted financially more that the owners but that's where DeMaurice Smith has been smart in making this not just about money but the greed of the owners and how the players are being taken for a ride by the greedy owners. And while some players with financial obligations like child support, etc maybe impacted these are not minimum wage earners we are talking about. These guys are in better position to ride out the storm than in any other labor dispute.

From what i have read, the players have no real shot at winning the suit in court, it is going to be overturned and that is that. Dee Smith is hanging his hopes on a very thin thread here.

[Larz]

awkward attempt by roger to manufacture urgency

[bitonti]

The owners HAD TO lock out the players once the union decertified, otherwise they would have been in breach of a bunch of anti trust laws that they were rightfully given an exemption from previously. To not lock out the player could have opened them up to easy anti trust lawsuits from every player in the league.

the owners opted out of the CBA... that happened first and the owners didn't have to do that... the agreement technically had a year left... the anti trust is also invalid without a CBA. decertify helped them sue but it wasn't the cause of this situation.

[Bugg]

I think it is widely understood that NFL owners don't really make money on owning an NFL team, they are already rich and NFL ownership is their way of enjoying that wealth, there are much better ways to make that money work for you than NFL ownership. OF course people love to talk about valuations and how much the franchise like the Pats has increased since Kraft bought it, but those aren't real earnings, he only realizes that if he sells, and for a guy like that he isn't flipping it for a buck so it doesn't really matter how much the team's value has increased. And with all the TV rev pretty much going to the players, Woody (until the new stadium) was about mid pack when it came to gameday revenues, where the owners make the bulk of the money they actually get to keep. So yeah, revenue has increased, but a lot of teams have also increased their spending as well, Tell Jerry Jones he had record "profits" in the last 3 years and see what his reaction is.

On a cash basis, none of these guys is losing money. Further as the value of their fracnhises has appreciated they have been able to take cash out in either selling small limited shares in the team or borrowing at low rates on the value of their franchise. And as the the new stadiums the depreciation expenses in the first few years mean on a tax basis they might be at break even or worse with the IRS while in fact having solid cash flows. There's nothing illegal about any of this, but the cries of poverty by the owners are ridiculous.And while Jerry Jones on paper might cry poverty, he does now have spanking new ATM/Stadium which in addition to creating new revenue streams is giving him a huge depreciation expense, knocking down his taxable profit on paper. Which is why all these guys want a new stadium; double benefit of more revenue while increasing expenses on paper.

Fair point-Smith does seem more inclined to run to court and grandstand. Bell Biv DeMaurice would be winning this in a rout if he simply offered to get back to the negotiating table ASAP. He was getting his way when the talks broke down. The closer you get to a settlement the sooner the owners will give in. And the looming problem is that while the season ticket holders and players are happy to not have to deal with exhibitions(networks might feel differently because those games outdraw baseball all summer), the closer we get to players missing game checks the less and less leverage Smith will have. So to waste this time marking the calendar between court dates is foolish when he could be talking this to a conclusion, as Irsay noted.

[T0mShane]

100% true. The reason DeMaurice Smith ended up head of the NFLPA instead of Troy Vincent was because the players felt they got railroaded in the last deal and that Upshaw forced them to take a terrible deal to avoid a work stoppage. Im pretty sure that opt out clause was more or less put into the CBA as a selling point to the players rather than the owners. By 2007 the cap skyrocketed, the revenue streams were changing with big market teams making much more than the small market ones with the new stadiums and merchandise deals, and ownership was like "what just happened". I do think its funny that people point to the Bills and Bengals owners as visionaries which is why they didnt sign it. They just didnt sign it because they are difficult and basically want a deal where the cap would be a fixed amount of very low money or something tied into the revenue stream of each team when coming up with the floor.

I also think the other problem, and this again is owner vs owner or owner vs agent more than owner vs player, is that certain teams and agents found ways to really circumvent the cap which made extremely unbalanced payrolls and also increased the existing price for free agents. The various NLTBE bonuses, the use of end of year incentives to push cap room forward, tricks with in-season re-negotiations to utilize cap room, voidable years, funky bonus structures, etc...I still find it hard to believe that all 32 owners will fully agree on any set of rules, but I have a feeling they will attempt to close certain loopholes in the cap.

Excellent points, as usual. I bolded the second part because that's what scares me the most in this whole imbroglio--that the owners are going to pull the rugs out from under each other's feet as soon as the CBA is signed. I can understand the Jones' and Snyders' of the world getting annoyed with signing a check to fund the Bills and their run-down stadium, but what makes the NFL such a great watch is the parity. I don't trust any of the owners to ever do the "right thing" for the future of the league if they think that, individually, they can line their pockets today. Jones is sitting on a goldmine down there in Dallas, and he can't tap into most of it without him having to turn around and ship buckets of cash to Mike Brown. I'm sure it sucks, but it's really what makes the league great. I'm not overly concerned that the players get paid any more or less than they do now; my concern is that DeMaurice Smith is the last guy standing between the owners and the gun they want to put to their own heads.

[T0mShane]

On a cash basis, none of these guys is losing money. Further as the value of their fracnhises has appreciated they have been able to take cash out in either selling small limited shares in the team or borrowing at low rates on the value of their franchise. And as the the new stadiums the depreciation expenses in the first few years mean on a tax basis they might be at break even or worse with the IRS while in fact having solid cash flows. There's nothing illegal about any of this, but the cries of poverty by the owners are ridiculous.

Fair point-Smith does seem more inclined to run to court and grandstand. Bell Biv DeMaurice would be winning this in a rout if he simply offered to get back to the negotiating table ASAP. He was getting his way when the talks broke down. The closer you get to a settlement the sooner the owners will give in. And the looming problem is that while the season ticket holders and players are happy to not have to deal with exhibitions(networks might feel differently because those games outdraw baseball all summer), the closer we get to players missing game checks the less and less leverage Smith will have. So to waste this time marking the calendar between court dates is foolish when he could be talking this to a conclusion, as Irsay noted.

lol @ "Bel Biv DeMaurice."

I'd imagine that Smith is pretty content to play chicken with the owners at this point, calling their bluff on just how broke they are. The closer the season gets, it'll be interesting how patient the owners are when all the bills come due and they don't have a penny of revenue coming into the building. There're still mortgages to be paid on stadiums, vendors to pay, licensing agreements that need funding and front office personnel that need paychecks. I can't even imagine the dollar figure it would cost, say, Al Davis to keep the Coliseum dark for even a week when they are supposed to be playing. Tens of millions? If five or six owners start to get itchy, that would have a much bigger impact on the negotiations than any 100 players screaming about missing child support payments. IMO, these owners will lose their minds pretty quick and, considering they're the ones holding the keys in this instance, would be more likely to take what they can get just to put some coins in the till.

[T0mShane]

Dee Smith made this very personal, said a lot of stupid stuff, and as a litigator with no union or labor negotiation experience he foolishly went right "to the mattresses" as he called it. He should have known from the beginning that the 8th circuit was going to rule against him, most legal experts did as I have read. He is really just holding out hope that he can win this in the courts at this point, and that is a very tenuous bet he is making. He really was the wrong guy for the job, it came down to a handful of NFL player reps who make the decision that got enamored with a impassioned speech. Goodell isn't Tags, but Dee Smith is the real buffoon in sheep's clothing here. He should have NEVER went down the road to decertification and litigation, doing so just forced this on both sides to be sorted out by the courts, and the courts take TIME, not 1-2 months, but real time.

As far as this not getting fixed until Dee Smith signs, well, I think at some point he will be yanked from his job and someone else will be put in. I don't see how you can get the horse back in the barn here, he has made to strong a play here and he won't back down.

De Smith's biggest challenge coming into this thing was to keep his players from losing their minds and, to date, he's done that. I think he's pretty wisely sold them on the idea that ownership has betrayed the players--turning it into an all-or-nothing battle--as opposed to talking about it in terms of dollars and cents where the obvious solution would be to take what they could get, even if they lose a mil here or there. As I was saying before, the courts aren't going to slide a new CBA across the table at both parties and say, "sign this!," so nothing is going to be "settled" by a judge--the litigation serves only to keep the players from getting bullied.

As far as the court of public opinion is concerned, I think it's strongly with the players as yet. The NFL fan has been growing more anti-owner every time parking, PSL, and beer prices have shot up. Nobody feels bad for those blood-suckers. This isn't a strike, remember. The players are the ones being pushed here.

Record profits and record revenue are 2 different things. To say profits are at a record high is conjecture, unless those numbers have been released which i honestly am unaware of.

The numbers have not been released, other than the $9 billion figure and the numbers related to the record DirecTV deal. If you want to make the case that the owners have to spend more because they're building new stadiums, well, f*ck those thieving scumbags. If they gouge the players union to get money back, I sincerely hope every municipality that got held up at gunpoint for taxpayer monies to build these inaccessible sh*tboxes takes their local owner to court for some clawback on their new-found riches.

[Bugg]

De Smith's biggest challenge coming into this thing was to keep his players from losing their minds and, to date, he's done that. I think he's pretty wisely sold them on the idea that ownership has betrayed the players--turning it into an all-or-nothing battle--as opposed to talking about it in terms of dollars and cents where the obvious solution would be to take what they could get, even if they lose a mil here or there. As I was saying before, the courts aren't going to slide a new CBA across the table at both parties and say, "sign this!," so nothing is going to be "settled" by a judge--the litigation serves only to keep the players from getting bullied.

As far as the court of public opinion is concerned, I think it's strongly with the players as yet. The NFL fan has been growing more anti-owner every time parking, PSL, and beer prices have shot up. Nobody feels bad for those blood-suckers. This isn't a strike, remember. The players are the ones being pushed here.

The numbers have not been released, other than the $9 billion figure and the numbers related to the record DirecTV deal. If you want to make the case that the owners have to spend more because they're building new stadiums, well, f*ck those thieving scumbags. If they gouge the players union to get money back, I sincerely hope every municipality that got held up at gunpoint for taxpayer monies to build these inaccessible sh*tboxes takes their local owner to court for some clawback on their new-found riches.

The "HELP ME, A BILLIONIARE WHO BUILT A NEW STADIUM" sympathy plea by ownership is really, well, rich. They all got tax breaks and cash from the NFL general fund to build their sh*tboxes.Some like Irsay and Mara/Tisch and Woody got a Super Bow date(which is why Irasy will be with the big market guys when this gets done.) The sh*tboxes give them more revenue as they gouge us all. And they get to depreciate the sh*t out of their shiny new assets, lowering taxable income without paying any cash, year after year.Talk about win/win. And for this they expect us all to think they are losing money. What total horsesh*t. Our new stadium is only more expensive and sh*ttier than the old one in almost every way. And it's that way simply so the Jets can bleed us all white.

[Maxman]

The owners HAD TO lock out the players once the union decertified, otherwise they would have been in breach of a bunch of anti trust laws that they were rightfully given an exemption from previously. To not lock out the player could have opened them up to easy anti trust lawsuits from every player in the league.

What?

The owners didn't want to play under the current rules. The players would have been fine under the current rules.

Are BOTH sides having a hard time AGREEING? Or is one side reaching out and the other is not acting in good faith to negotiate? Who is to say which or either side is trying to actively find a solution. I do know that as this is playing out, it seems to me a lot of the "insiders" are starting to really point their fingers at the union and specifically Dee Smith as the biggest roadblock, that they aren't really interested in truly negotiating.

If they don't have an agreement, then yes both sides are having a hard time agreeing.

I think the owners had no real choice but to act like everything was eventually going to fall into place with a season happening. Yeah it would have seemed like a nice gesture to not charge the fans until this was worked out, but it would have also sent a message that the owners were not really trying to make a season happen. Also, by continuing more or less with the ticket payment structure and timeframe, everyone is well aware quite far in advance exactly when their payments are due. To make them dependent on when the new cba is agreed on would be chaos as it could happen at any moment. What would happen if it was a week before the season opens? Are you really going to send out invoices of between $4,000 and $25,000 or a lot more and tell people they have 24-48 hours to fedex a check or plop down an amex card to secure your tix? Think about the public reaction and pr ramifications of that scenario. These are issues that we don't really think about. On the surface it all kinda seems very simple and cut-n-dry, but it really isn't.

It is a pretty electronic world. I would have loved the option to have my payment processed in full the day there was an agreement. If they are furloughing employees and cutting pay, not sure why I had to pay 50% now. Seems like they are worried about the season being in jeopardy.

[Maxman]

De Smith's biggest challenge coming into this thing was to keep his players from losing their minds and, to date, he's done that. I think he's pretty wisely sold them on the idea that ownership has betrayed the players--turning it into an all-or-nothing battle--as opposed to talking about it in terms of dollars and cents where the obvious solution would be to take what they could get, even if they lose a mil here or there. As I was saying before, the courts aren't going to slide a new CBA across the table at both parties and say, "sign this!," so nothing is going to be "settled" by a judge--the litigation serves only to keep the players from getting bullied.

As far as the court of public opinion is concerned, I think it's strongly with the players as yet. The NFL fan has been growing more anti-owner every time parking, PSL, and beer prices have shot up. Nobody feels bad for those blood-suckers. This isn't a strike, remember. The players are the ones being pushed here.

The numbers have not been released, other than the $9 billion figure and the numbers related to the record DirecTV deal. If you want to make the case that the owners have to spend more because they're building new stadiums, well, f*ck those thieving scumbags. If they gouge the players union to get money back, I sincerely hope every municipality that got held up at gunpoint for taxpayer monies to build these inaccessible shitboxes takes their local owner to court for some clawback on their new-found riches.

Totally agree.

And I wouldn't call the Union leader a bufoon until the terms of the new deal are eventually worked out. Time will tell...

[T0mShane]

The "HELP ME, A BILLIONIARE WHO BUILT A NEW STADIUM" sympathy plea by ownership is really, well, rich. They all got tax breaks and cash from the NFL general fund to build their sh*tboxes.Some like Irsay and Mara/Tisch and Woody got a Super Bow date(which is why Irasy will be with the big market guys when this gets done.) The sh*tboxes give them more revenue as they gouge us all. And they get to depreciate the sh*t out of their shiny new assets, lowering taxable income without paying any cash, year after year.Talk about win/win. And for this they expect us all to think they are losing money. What total horsesh*t. Our new stadium is only more expensive and sh*ttier than the old one in almost every way. And it's that way simply so the Jets can bleed us all white.

I love it when you get all spicy.

[jason423]

De Smith's biggest challenge coming into this thing was to keep his players from losing their minds and, to date, he's done that. I think he's pretty wisely sold them on the idea that ownership has betrayed the players--turning it into an all-or-nothing battle--as opposed to talking about it in terms of dollars and cents where the obvious solution would be to take what they could get, even if they lose a mil here or there. As I was saying before, the courts aren't going to slide a new CBA across the table at both parties and say, "sign this!," so nothing is going to be "settled" by a judge--the litigation serves only to keep the players from getting bullied.

As far as the court of public opinion is concerned, I think it's strongly with the players as yet. The NFL fan has been growing more anti-owner every time parking, PSL, and beer prices have shot up. Nobody feels bad for those blood-suckers. This isn't a strike, remember. The players are the ones being pushed here.

I think thats how it was for the most part, until D. went on his media blitz and court blitz. Having an 80 million dollar QB who is getting paid during the lockout and a contract that gives him the opportunity to make most of his money back in the event the entire season is lost as your top plaintiff in a lawsuit just makes everyone ambivalent to both sides. Anyway, I think Smith has a new battle now on his hands. I think this is now the time where agents start to get involved. I think they are very antsy about what is going on. The lost mega free agent dollars last season and are in a position to lose alot more now. Since the court sided with the owners and the union did not get back to the table they have a real fear about losing significant money since they only get paid once the player gets paid. I know of a few who have been quoted as saying that Smith has done a terrible job of keeping everyone in the loop since the court loss. They said the players and team reps are clueless and the agents are basically told nothing when they ask about it. Those agents will have the ears of the players far more than Smith, any fan, or any owner.

[jason423]

The "HELP ME, A BILLIONIARE WHO BUILT A NEW STADIUM" sympathy plea by ownership is really, well, rich. They all got tax breaks and cash from the NFL general fund to build their sh*tboxes.Some like Irsay and Mara/Tisch and Woody got a Super Bow date(which is why Irasy will be with the big market guys when this gets done.) The sh*tboxes give them more revenue as they gouge us all. And they get to depreciate the sh*t out of their shiny new assets, lowering taxable income without paying any cash, year after year.Talk about win/win. And for this they expect us all to think they are losing money. What total horsesh*t. Our new stadium is only more expensive and sh*ttier than the old one in almost every way. And it's that way simply so the Jets can bleed us all white.

Its pretty sick to me that the Giants owner can go out there and write these memos about changing economies and increased costs and how the players have to share that burden when they absolutely gouged the people who have actually felt the economic crunch---the fans of the team. There were no "recession price breaks" given for PSLs and ridiculously overpriced seats, unless you want to count the Jets desperate attempts to sell out the stadium. Thats what annoys me more than anything else. They didnt just screw the fans over with increased ticket prices, they screwed them over with super inflated ticket prices and beyond expensive PSLs. Woody Johnson basically insulted everyones intelligence when he said these were an investment for the fans that would do nothing but grow in value like a stock, when it is nothing more than a money grab. If the fans need to share that burden with the investment then maybe the team should consider paying out some dividend on that investment.

There were things that needed to be changed in that last CBA but the owners really make me sick when they talk about their bad situation after the way they rake the fans over the coals each and every year.

[flgreen]

Another issue just struck me. if the NFL misses say, 4 games, how are the fans going to react?

The Jets had some problems selling out last year. If there is no camp we are going to have very sloppy football. The fans are already pissed off. Will they buy seats at the inflated prices? Will there be blackouts in NYC?

[ECURB]

I love how people cry foul but then act like we should not care about someone because they have more 0's on the end of their annual income.

Look in the mirror, you say the JETS are "bleeding us white" and the owners are greedy. You are treating them the exact way you think they are treating you.

If Woody offered you $10 off per ticket would you smile and say OK?

Now if Woody asked for $10 more per ticket you would cry foul...

You are making yourself a mirror image of the horrible owners your draw out... just with less money.

[T0mShane]

I love how people cry foul but then act like we should not care about someone because they have more 0's on the end of their annual income.

Look in the mirror, you say the JETS are "bleeding us white" and the owners are greedy. You are treating them the exact way you think they are treating you.

If Woody offered you $10 off per ticket would you smile and say OK?

Now if Woody asked for $10 more per ticket you would cry foul...

You are making yourself a mirror image of the horrible owners your draw out... just with less money.

Oh, E, your eventual nervous breakdown is going to make this all worth it. In the meantime, get back to work showing those Japs how the British build a bridge on the River Kwai.