Mark Sanchez: The Final Countdown

[NYJSanchez]

"Geno failed to win the job in 2013" -- Unless you work for the Jets, this is opinion and conjecture.

"I would like to see if he can beat out the guy he failed to beat out" -- This is unnecessary, petty, and still based on conjecture.

 

Finally, outside of a small pocket of Jets fans, Sanchez is one of the leagues worst QBs.  Statistics, both standard and advanced, back this up.  He would absolutely not be my choice of available QBs.

No one believes that Geno beat out Sanchez in 2013.  Who here believes that Geno was the better QB in preseason? 

 

Sanchez in 2012 was awful but so was the rest of the talent on that team and the OC.  It was a waste of a year for a QB that showed some solid improvements in 2011 with Wayne Hunter getting him killed each week.  I'll take an Average Sanchez throwing 26 TDs next season.  If the Jets had 26TDs this season they might have won the damn AFCEast.

[ZachEY]

No one believes that Geno beat out Sanchez in 2013.  Who here believes that Geno was the better QB in preseason? 

 

Sanchez in 2012 was awful but so was the rest of the talent on that team and the OC.  It was a waste of a year for a QB that showed some solid improvements in 2011 with Wayne Hunter getting him killed each week.  I'll take an Average Sanchez throwing 26 TDs next season.  If the Jets had 26TDs this season they might have won the damn AFCEast.

 

LOL... So, because he had 26 TDs once, that is what is assumed.  All the while, while he was still in the bottom of the league in YPA, YPG, Passer Rating, and completion percentage in that year.  He also had 26 turnovers that year.

 

Fact is, in Sanchez's banner year (according to you), he still sucked.

 

But, the only question I have left for you is a simple one... Why does Sanchez get excuses made for him, but Geno does not?

[NYJSanchez]

LOL... So, because he had 26 TDs once, that is what is assumed.  All the while, while he was still in the bottom of the league in YPA, YPG, Passer Rating, and completion percentage in that year.  He also had 26 turnovers that year.

 

Fact is, in Sanchez's banner year (according to you), he still sucked.

 

But, the only question I have left for you is a simple one... Why does Sanchez get excuses made for him, but Geno does not?

I give geno some of the same lines - average weapons at WR this year, the offensive line was average, the running game was solid.   He had games thatwould make Tebow look like a solid NFL QB though. 

 

Sanchez had 26 TD and 17 INT -- fumbles killed him and he was getting killed by that line.  So his 3rd full season in the NFL with new weapons on offense (Burress replaced Edwards, Cotchery sent to Pitt, and Mason cut who was brought in to be a solid addition) he totaled 32 TDs - 26 throwing and 6 rushing.  SO yeah he didn't rank high across the board but Burress was old and slow - was not able to get any separtation from a DB outside of the red zone he wasn't very good.  He was a name but who was the #1 on that squad - Holmes? Burress?  Keller?  I see a QB that the Jets shoul dhave gone out and gone offensive skill in 2012 to see if he could take the next step - cut down on turnovers, improve compl % and develop.  Instead they brought in Spoarno and Tebow and Hill.  LT was gone so there was no pass catching option out of the backfield for Sanchez.  They basically took away what great Qbs have on every pass play - an outlet coming out of the backfield.  The Jets failed Sanchez in 2012 and he still never said the wrong thing or blamed anyone for the lack of talent on that team.

[ZachEY]

I stopped reading at average weapons at WR this year.

 

Jokes on me though, because I really should have stopped at "NYJSanchez."

[NYJSanchez]

I stopped reading at average weapons at WR this year.

 

Jokes on me though, because I really should have stopped at "NYJSanchez."

Holmes, Winslow, Nelson, Cumberland, Kerley Powell - not great but they were average receivers.  Good route runners, good hands, not gonna scare teams,but those aren't bad receivers.  They are strong move the chain type guys...problem is Geno wasn't able to throw any form of timing route, slant, curl, out...it took away what his receivers did well.  You have a QB that can see a defense, pick out his best option, make a decision, and let it go.  Geno couldn't do that - stared guys down, didn't read defenses, was easily fooled, had no timing at all, unable to hit guys in coverage consistently, and his deep balls were all over the map.  Hopefully Geno develops this off season but in this offense timing is critical and it was a glaring weakness all year.

[ZachEY]

Average means middle of the pack.  I'll be generous.  Name 10 teams who are worse at the position than the Jets.

 

Not to mention that not one of the players you mentioned played a full season, and all but Cumberland didn't make it past 12.

[dbatesman]

This thread. Holy hell.

[NYJSanchez]

Average means middle of the pack.  I'll be generous.  Name 10 teams who are worse at the position than the Jets.

 

Not to mention that not one of the players you mentioned played a full season, and all but Cumberland didn't make it past 12.

Most teams in the league have a legit #1 - the Jets haven't had a legit #1 in years.  The players they do have are middle of the back..individually they aren't great but as a whole they can all make plays.  You take away Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Steve Smith, Josh Gordon, Dwayne Bowe from teams they are very different.  Jets don't have that top tier skill player.  With the right QB they would have performed better, because Geno could't take advantage of what they do best - run crisp routes and rely on precise timing.  Geno needed guys to be wide open, he had to see plays develop before he released the ball.  So where a QB that would throw a ball before a player cuts Geno would wait for the cut and end up being late or get picked.

 

Geno also was bad at hitting guys in the stride. Watching the Dolphin game - which was one of his better games he was always low, high, or behind his receivers making them drop to the ground or jump to make plays. Killed any YAC..this is where this receiving corp could have done some damage since they had no real deep threat aside from HIll who Geno couldn't hit.  He left a lot of yards on the field with his poor placement of throws and poor timing. That accuracy has to get better for Geno this off season...who knows what his offseason worrk ethic will be like, but I hope he is serious about getting better and not getting full of himself because of the last couple of weeks.

[ZachEY]

I don't see a list.  So, I didn't read it.

[NYJSanchez]

I don't see a list.  So, I didn't read it.

You can't compare a team with a true #1 to the Jets receivers because the true #1 outshines the Jets.  The Jets as a whole, when used correctly, are good enough to move the chains, open up the running game, allow for play action, and to put points on the board.  You compare #1 on most teams and you will say they are better than the Jets just because they have a #1, but if you put a decent QB that can run the offense as designed the receivers on the Jets were more than capable of puttin gup solid numbers.  Geno wasn't able to do that .. he needed guys to be wide open and he needed to see every throw develop before letting th eball go.\

 

You can say well the Lions have an elite receiver and a QB that has thrown for over 5000 yards in a season..there coach just got fired.

Andre Johnson is elite and that team was predicted to challenge for a super bowl -- coach fired , QB imploded, 1st pick in the draft.

Jags have some talent at receiver -- Blackmon gets suspended and they lack a viable option at QB.

Dwayne Bowe is a top tier receivers, but that team runs throgh Jamal Charles - especially his ability to catch screen passes.

Bears have two elite receivers, an elite running back, a solid TE, and a QB getting paid millions -- where are they?

 

It's not always about having elite weapons or the best weapons -- it's about have the right pieces fitting together. 

[Pac]

Tried to tell you to favor brevity. No amount of words will change their minds - no matter how logical your posts are.

[Smashmouth]

I don't see a list.  So, I didn't read it.

I got a list for ya

 

2012 Sanchez at QB - Keller and Cumberland hurt no TE to speak of Holmes hurt early in season Hill hurt all year but hes nothing special no RB who could catch the ball best WR on team Jeremy Kerley. Other WR Clyde Gates and Schilens  So no TE no pass catching back since the Jets refused to play Powell who had 17 catches. O-line was terrible and was not even able to run the ball effectively anymore

 

EDIT - Sorry I forgot to mention Jordan White and Jason Hill. um LOL ?

 

2013 Geno at QB - Winslow for 12 games and a healthy Cumberland at TE Kerley and Holmes battled injuries as did Hill but Nelson played well Powell who had 36 catches finally got some time and the Jets once again ran the ball well. Kerley led team with 523 yards receiving

 

If you ask me 2012 was a joke because the OC was a moron and the talent stunk and we had ZERO at the TE position and no RB's who could catch a football. Did Sanchez play bad ? Yes he absolutely did but he certainly had much less to work with than Geno

[NYJSanchez]

I got a list for ya

 

2012 Sanchez at QB - Keller and Cumberland hurt no TE to speak of Holmes hurt early in season Hill hurt all year but hes nothing special no RB who could catch the ball best WR on team Jeremy Kerley. Other WR Clyde Gates and Schilens  So no TE no pass catching back since the Jets refused to play Powell who had 17 catches. O-line was terrible and was not even able to run the ball effectively anymore

 

2013 Geno at QB - Winslow for 12 games and a healthy Cumberland at TE Kerley and Holmes battled injuries as did Hill but Nelson played well Powell who had 36 catches finally got some time and the Jets once again ran the ball well. Kerley led team with 523 yards receiving

 

If you ask me 2012 was a joke because the OC was a moron and the talent stunk and we had ZERO at the TE position and no RB's who could catch a football. Did Sanchez play bad ? Yes he absolutely did but he certainly had much less to work with than Geno

This is why I view 2012 as a lost season for Sanchez.  After 2011 they jets should have been agressive in upgrading the offensive skill positions, but they were in such salary cap hell they had very little options.  They reached on Hill and he didn't develop at all like they hoped.  Losing LT was monster -- Geno did have Ivory and Powell -- if Goodson was healthy and around all seaosn they would have been big for him I believe.  You put Sanchez under center with his play action and ability to hit the quick slant and you never know what would have happened this season.  What really upset me was Geno's inability to hit simple screens or guys in stride.

[Smashmouth]

This is why I view 2012 as a lost season for Sanchez.  After 2011 they jets should have been agressive in upgrading the offensive skill positions, but they were in such salary cap hell they had very little options.  They reached on Hill and he didn't develop at all like they hoped.  Losing LT was monster -- Geno did have Ivory and Powell -- if Goodson was healthy and around all seaosn they would have been big for him I believe.  You put Sanchez under center with his play action and ability to hit the quick slant and you never know what would have happened this season.  What really upset me was Geno's inability to hit simple screens or guys in stride.

 

Well keep in mind one of Sanchez big problems was disguising the screen he was terrible at it as was Geno. I think Morhinwig could have helped Sanchez but the main thing is like you have been saying and I have been saying for 14 years this team needs talent and I think the highest we ever got was middle of the road on offense and we have not had a number 1 WR since Keyshawn. You know a big guy who could move the chains. Its hard to evaluate a QB when the players around him stink to high heaven. Thing that bothered me about Sanchez when he threw the 26 TD's which was very good he begain a string of turning the ball over that killed him the last 6 games of 2011 and all of 2012. Could Mornhinwig have broken him of that habit and helped his game ? who knows 

 

The Jets are going to cut Sanchez and re sign him on the cheap if they do not target a QB in this years draft. That's not what Im asking but that's certainly what Im thinking. What I want is Johnny Manziel and for Geno and Sanchez to take a long walk out of here

[Sperm Edwards]

I am so proud of myself for staying out of this pointless back and forth.  

 

Oh, and for all his faults and limited upside, Alex Smith is 10x the QB that Mark Sanchez is.  The only truly awful season he had (those he played with an intact shoulder) was as a 21 year-old rookie starting on the worst team in football, which is how SF got that #1 overall pick in the first place.  

 

• Season 1. Awful as a rookie (on an awful team)
• Season 2. Pretty bad as a 2nd year player, but not hideous, and he was still just a 22 year-old.
• Season 3. Better those first few games than his stats indicate (though still not really good). Separated his shoulder in the beginning of week 4. 
• Season 4.  DNP (entered season as the #2 and was put on IR on Sept 10th)
• Season 5.  (as noted on the never-wrong wikipedia, this was his 5th different OC in 5 seasons).  Again started the season as the #2.  Took over in week 6 and kept the job.  Finished with a pretty decent season considering he hadn't started a game in over 2 years.
• Season 6. Coaching changes and QB changes mid-season.  He was pretty bad even though statistically it didn't look catastrophic.  Still, threw 14 TDs and 10 picks in 10 starts.  On paper that's better than Sanchez usually did.
• Season 7. Became a super-efficient game-manager, throwing only 5 picks in 16 games.  Some of it was holding it instead of throwing it (got sacked a league-leading 44x), but a pick is worse.  SF won 13 games and averaged 24 ppg behind his efficient do-no-harm QB style.  Should have gone to the SB instead of the Giants but for impossible special teams turnover in OT and a horrible bullsh*t Giants call when Bradshaw fumbled and they said forward progress was stopped.
• Season 8. Was leading the NFL in completion percentage (70.2%) when he got injured.  Harbaugh stuck with Kaepernick when Smith was healthy enough to return due to more upside.
• Season 9. Traded to KC and they go 11-4 in his starts.  Another efficient season with only 7 picks.  

The idea that he suddenly got good or reliable or whatever this year in KC is not only factually untrue, but this wasn't even his best season.  The only claim that is more ridiculous is the suggestion that Mark Sanchez is in any way similar to Alex Smith, who is smarter, more talented, more accurate, and just flat-out better.  Sanchez edges him in pure arm strength, but who cares? The only other way they're similar is they were both top-5 picks who were bad rookie QBs.

 

Now I'm done.  Really.

[Bleedin Green]

So apparently Sanchez's play as a fourth-year pro is dismissed as irrelevant while Geno's play as a rookie is definitive evidence of how he will perform for the remainder of his career, despite any progress shown late in the season.  Don't get me wrong, Geno has a looooooong way to go if he's really going to be the answer, but Sanchez hasn't shown any differently than that, except for he's been doing that for 5 years now, which gives far less reason for optimism that his horrid play might change.  Consider that Sanchez's 2012 season saw a stat line which featured a worse completion percentage, worse YPA, less total TDs, and more turnovers than Geno's rookie year.

[Jetsfan80]

So apparently Sanchez's play as a fourth-year pro is dismissed as irrelevant while Geno's play as a rookie is definitive evidence of how he will perform for the remainder of his career, despite any progress shown late in the season.  Don't get me wrong, Geno has a looooooong way to go if he's really going to be the answer, but Sanchez hasn't shown any differently than that, except for he's been doing that for 5 years now, which gives far less reason for optimism that his horrid play might change.  Consider that Sanchez's 2012 season saw a stat line which featured a worse completion percentage, worse YPA, less total TDs, and more turnovers than Geno's rookie year.

 

Sanchez sucks for 4 years with varying degrees of weapons:  RESTRUCTURE AND TRIPLE DOWN, BABY

 

Geno sucks for 1 year with awful weapons:  Cut his ass.

[Freemanm]

I was comparing the 2011 season and prior to watch Sanchez has done from his rookie year til now. Signing Sanchez to one a one year deal is the option I am giving. What happens is a mystery but it worked out well for smith. Not sure why you are bringing up 2012 and 2013.

I very highly doubt either side would agree to that option, but I would agree with you that there are probably worse backups out there than Sanchez. We even had Matt Simms! 

[BurnleyJet]

I'm sorry Mark did not make it, I like the guy but as my Q.B no. At the end of the 2012 season Mark was a broken man, he sh@t his pants in the pocket any time there was any pressure. He'd routinely throw it to D-linemen just anything not to get hit.

I did feel sorry for him at that point, but this is New York, and here is isn't any coming back for the guy now. If he became the second coming of Joe Montana the folks would forget the 3TD game and would just talk about the interception he'd thrown. It's a shame but best for both parties that Mark and the Jets parted ways. I hope he does well at his next club but it just isn't here.

[T0mShane]

There is a thread on here where people are debating whether or not we should trade up to 2 or 7 to "steal" Johnny Manziel. It's only the second most frighteningly absurd thread on the board right now.

[flgreen]

There is a thread on here where people are debating whether or not we should trade up to 2 or 7 to "steal" Johnny Manziel. It's only the second most frighteningly absurd thread on the board right now.

 

That is nuts, but

 

Sure glad all those crazy fire Rex threads are gone

[NYJSanchez]

I am so proud of myself for staying out of this pointless back and forth.  

 

Oh, and for all his faults and limited upside, Alex Smith is 10x the QB that Mark Sanchez is.  The only truly awful season he had (those he played with an intact shoulder) was as a 21 year-old rookie starting on the worst team in football, which is how SF got that #1 overall pick in the first place.  

 

• Season 1. Awful as a rookie (on an awful team)
• Season 2. Pretty bad as a 2nd year player, but not hideous, and he was still just a 22 year-old.
• Season 3. Better those first few games than his stats indicate (though still not really good). Separated his shoulder in the beginning of week 4. 
• Season 4.  DNP (entered season as the #2 and was put on IR on Sept 10th)
• Season 5.  (as noted on the never-wrong wikipedia, this was his 5th different OC in 5 seasons).  Again started the season as the #2.  Took over in week 6 and kept the job.  Finished with a pretty decent season considering he hadn't started a game in over 2 years.
• Season 6. Coaching changes and QB changes mid-season.  He was pretty bad even though statistically it didn't look catastrophic.  Still, threw 14 TDs and 10 picks in 10 starts.  On paper that's better than Sanchez usually did.
• Season 7. Became a super-efficient game-manager, throwing only 5 picks in 16 games.  Some of it was holding it instead of throwing it (got sacked a league-leading 44x), but a pick is worse.  SF won 13 games and averaged 24 ppg behind his efficient do-no-harm QB style.  Should have gone to the SB instead of the Giants but for impossible special teams turnover in OT and a horrible bullsh*t Giants call when Bradshaw fumbled and they said forward progress was stopped.
• Season 8. Was leading the NFL in completion percentage (70.2%) when he got injured.  Harbaugh stuck with Kaepernick when Smith was healthy enough to return due to more upside.
• Season 9. Traded to KC and they go 11-4 in his starts.  Another efficient season with only 7 picks.  

The idea that he suddenly got good or reliable or whatever this year in KC is not only factually untrue, but this wasn't even his best season.  The only claim that is more ridiculous is the suggestion that Mark Sanchez is in any way similar to Alex Smith, who is smarter, more talented, more accurate, and just flat-out better.  Sanchez edges him in pure arm strength, but who cares? The only other way they're similar is they were both top-5 picks who were bad rookie QBs.

 

Now I'm done.  Really.

So based on your outline he was a disappointment from 2005-2010 due to coaching changes?  The team had issues, changed coaches, weapons, etc....that is all true -- top pick in the draft that the 49ers dind't enable to win, but until 2011 he was a sub 60% compl guy who had more interceptions than touchdowns.  In 2011 he turned things around...in year 7.  Sanchez is in year 5...both missed a season due to injury but Sanchez has ben more durable in season.  I never said he suddenly got good in KC -- his trade to KC and his $24 million extension in 2012 were a result of having a light go on in 2012.  He was never and will never be elite, but he understood his role better and performed in that role at a high level.  It's not like he came back in 2011 and tossed 45 TD passes and 4 interceptions -- he completed over 60%, cut down on turnovers, and took a lot of sacks.

[T0mShane]

That is nuts, but

Sure glad all those crazy fire Rex threads are gone

Just wait a couple months.

[Sperm Edwards]

So based on your outline he was a disappointment from 2005-2010 due to coaching changes?  The team had issues, changed coaches, weapons, etc....that is all true -- top pick in the draft that the 49ers dind't enable to win, but until 2011 he was a sub 60% compl guy who had more interceptions than touchdowns.  In 2011 he turned things around...in year 7.  Sanchez is in year 5...both missed a season due to injury but Sanchez has ben more durable in season.  I never said he suddenly got good in KC -- his trade to KC and his $24 million extension in 2012 were a result of having a light go on in 2012.  He was never and will never be elite, but he understood his role better and performed in that role at a high level.  It's not like he came back in 2011 and tossed 45 TD passes and 4 interceptions -- he completed over 60%, cut down on turnovers, and took a lot of sacks.

 

I didn't say that, and I'm not getting involved in this extensive debate with you.  

 

Smith was atrocious as a rookie, more or less average after that on the field for a few seasons, and has been above-average as a game manager since then.  Sanchez is, was, and always will be an awful QB who is a totally dissimilar player except for the part where he was a lousy QB as a rookie.  

 

Nothing to debate.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just wait a couple months.

 

So you (and the those who think there's value in trying to impress you) are not even going to wait until the draft, let alone any actual games? 

 

I admit I might chime in if Rex gets a new Sanchez tattoo.  Unless a bear is attacking him in the graphic.  That would be cool.

[NYJSanchez]

I didn't say that, and I'm not engaging in this debate with you.  Smith was atrocious as a rookie, more or less average after that on the field for a few seasons, and has been above-average as a game manager since then.  Sanchez is, was, and always will be an awful QB who is totally dissimilar except for the part where he was a lousy QB as a rookie.

 

Nothing to debate.

Sanchez improved each of his first three seasons as personnel around him diminished. In 2012 the jets basically threw the offense under the bus with poor personnel decisions, bloated contracts, Tebow, Sporano, and injuries took care of the final outcome.  Look at the list of available veteran QBs that are available in 2014 none of them make you think they can come in and compete to start.  They will come in and hold a clipboard and take home a pay check.  That is not what the Jets need next season. They need a viable option to come in, compete with and push Geno, and if needed start games.  If geno sees a career journeyman backup being signed where is the drive for him to really improve?  That is a concern with a young QB.  He sees Sanchez come back he knows he has to come back and really outshine him in camp.  To me that is the best option..not Shaun Hill, McCown, Schaub, or Vick.

[faba]

Idzik will cut ties with Mark-give him a fresh start somewhere else. He is an outcast here in Jetland with most.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

Idzik will cut ties with Mark-give him a fresh start somewhere else. He is an outcast here in Jetland with most.

 

No doubt, this is what will happen.

 

The fan base will not tolerate Sanchez coming back.

[Sperm Edwards]

Sanchez improved each of his first three seasons as personnel around him diminished. In 2012 the jets basically threw the offense under the bus with poor personnel decisions, bloated contracts, Tebow, Sporano, and injuries took care of the final outcome.  Look at the list of available veteran QBs that are available in 2014 none of them make you think they can come in and compete to start.  They will come in and hold a clipboard and take home a pay check.  That is not what the Jets need next season. They need a viable option to come in, compete with and push Geno, and if needed start games.  If geno sees a career journeyman backup being signed where is the drive for him to really improve?  That is a concern with a young QB.  He sees Sanchez come back he knows he has to come back and really outshine him in camp.  To me that is the best option..not Shaun Hill, McCown, Schaub, or Vick.

 

I'm not debating this with you or even reading 2 words of this.  Sanchez sucks.

[faba]

I'm not debating this with you or even reading 2 words of this.  Sanchez sucks.

I admire people who get to the point.

[NYJSanchez]

Idzik will cut ties with Mark-give him a fresh start somewhere else. He is an outcast here in Jetland with most.

He will be cut -- just hope they give him a serious look when it comes to who gives the jets the best option as a vet to come in and compete with Smith in 2014. Never heard of Sanchez rocking the boat with Smith, seemed to be a positive influence on the sideline, and the jets can't afford to have another Matt Simms/David Garrard situation again where you feel you have no option but to stick with a bad starting QB.

[Sperm Edwards]

This is comedy gold.  Best new poster we've had in 2 years.

[NYJSanchez]

This is comedy gold.  Best new poster we've had in 2 years.

Glad you enjoy...I look forward to seeing Shaun Hill be forced into action in 2014.

[Jetsfan80]

Glad you enjoy...I look forward to seeing Shaun Hill be forced into action in 2014.

 

Yes because that will be our best option heading into a draft year with a talent-rich QB class.  You're as good a poster as Mark Sanchez was a QB.  Which you'll likely take as a compliment.

[Sperm Edwards]

Yes because that will be our best option heading into a draft year with a talent-rich QB class.  You're as good a poster as Mark Sanchez was a QB.  Which you'll likely take as a compliment.

 

The page alerted me to this new post while I was mid-response.  

 

I erased mine and didn't hit the "Post" button because yours is way better.