The Consequence of Winston?

[RutgersJetFan]

I agree in principle, but there's a limit. He walked around the FSU campus shooting squirrels with a BB gun.

 

Yes but to be fair those squirrels were talking a lot of sh*t.

[slats]

Not even trying for one this year seems even stranger in hindsight than it did on draft weekend. If Idzik really was not only that confident in Geno, but also too scared to risk hurting his feelings, then **** it all.

Yeah. I understood not taking a QB in the first round (even though in real time, the idea of drafting Manziel was pretty exciting), but not taking one with one of their fourth rounders, or even in the fifth with good names still available, was just shocking. You take a flyer on one of those guys, especially with all those picks. The rest of this season would be so much more interesting if we were giving a rookie a chance to show something down the stretch instead of Michael Vick.

[IPBanBadPosters]

Very true, and I'm usually the one who's hesitant of drafting kids with the character issues that Jameis has, but I'm really f*cking tired of losing and despite all of his off-the-field issues, he's a talented kid.  Christ, I really don't even like him, but if he can keep his ass out of jail, I think he's got a shot to be a very good QB.  

 

*This is all predicated on Rex no longer being our head coach. I love the guy, but there's a 0.0% chance that Jameis could function under him. Rex makes Jimbo Fischer look like a hard-assed Tom Coughlin.

 

Even if you put aside the character issues, he's a product of the talent around him. He plays behind an OL comprised of 1st and 2nd rounders, throws short out routes that his 1st and 2nd round WRs take to the house, his RB will go no later than the 2nd…and what kills me the most, is that all of this recent hype is coming after a game in which he threw 3 picks! The guy's "talent" is a mirage; he's being vastly overrated because he's playing alongside the most NFL caliber supporting cast in all of CFB! When you couple all of the aforementioned with the fact that he's a lowlife, I don't see how a team like the Jets, especially one with the reputation of being a 'circus,' in this media market, even gives a second thought to wasting a 1st on him in a year when we'll be drafting higher than at any time in recent memory.

 

Mariota's the only QB in this class worth taking with a high 1st; if he's off the board, you take the LT Peat or the WR Cooper. Mark my words, drafting Winston will set this franchise back another 3 years, and make us an even bigger laughingstock than we are now.

 

Not even trying for one this year seems even stranger in hindsight than it did on draft weekend. If Idzik really was not only that confident in Geno, but also too scared to risk hurting his feelings, then **** it all.

 

But…but...we drafted Seth Ryan's BFF in the 6th! How can you not trust a scouting report from a Ryan?

[BroadwayJoe12]

Even if you put aside the character issues, he's a product of the talent around him. He plays behind an OL comprised of 1st and 2nd rounders, throws short out routes that his 1st and 2nd round WRs take to the house, his RB will go no later than the 2nd…and what kills me the most, is that all of this recent hype is coming after a game in which he threw 3 picks! The guy's "talent" is a mirage; he's being vastly overrated because he's playing alongside the most NFL caliber supporting cast in all of CFB! When you couple all of the aforementioned with the fact that he's a lowlife, I don't see how a team like the Jets, especially one with the reputation of being a 'circus,' in this media market, even gives a second thought to wasting a 1st on him in a year when we'll be drafting higher than at any time in recent memory.

 

Mariota's the only QB in this class worth taking with a high 1st; if he's off the board, you take the LT Peat or the WR Cooper. Mark my words, drafting Winston will set this franchise back another 3 years, and make us an even bigger laughingstock than we are now.

 

 

 

Every QB taken in the first round is in some part a product of the talent around them, you think Andrew Luck didn't benefit from playing behind David Decastro and Jonathan Martin, while throwing to Fleener, Baldiwn and Zach Ertz, while having one of the best rushing games and defenses in college football??  Of course he did, but that's not what made him special.  

 

Listen, I get it, you don't like Winston, I happen to think he has a lot of potential; strong arm, good pocket awareness and accuracy to go along with a prototypical frame.  His offensive line is great on the perimeter, but have you seen and FSU games? The middle of their line constantly gives up pressure as they did quite often in the ND game; Jameis hung in there and took a number of hits while regrouping and going 15-16 for 180 yards and a score in the second half.  

 

I personally don't like the kid, think he's a jackass, but believe he's going to be the best QB in this class by far.  His off-the-field antics are certainly worth worrying about, but watch him on the field, he doesn't sulk and hang out by himself on the bench, he takes ownership of his mistakes and his teammates rally behind him.  To each his own, we'll have to see what happens.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Yes but to be fair those squirrels were talking a lot of sh*t.

 

Come to the Northeast, the f*ckers run rampant. Just fuzzy rats. If nothing else, this galvanizes my desire to draft him.

[IPBanBadPosters]

Every QB taken in the first round is in some part a product of the talent around them, you think Andrew Luck didn't benefit from playing behind David Decastro and Jonathan Martin, while throwing to Fleener, Baldiwn and Zach Ertz, while having one of the best rushing games and defenses in college football??  Of course he did, but that's not what made him special.  

 

Listen, I get it, you don't like Winston, I happen to think he has a lot of potential; strong arm, good pocket awareness and accuracy to go along with a prototypical frame.  His offensive line is great on the perimeter, but have you seen and FSU games? The middle of their line constantly gives up pressure as they did quite often in the ND game; Jameis hung in there and took a number of hits while regrouping and going 15-16 for 180 yards and a score in the second half.  

 

I personally don't like the kid, think he's a jackass, but believe he's going to be the best QB in this class by far.  His off-the-field antics are certainly worth worrying about, but watch him on the field, he doesn't sulk and hang out by himself on the bench, he takes ownership of his mistakes and his teammates rally behind him.  To each his own, we'll have to see what happens.

 

I'll take that bet. This kid's gonna bust, and hard - I just pray the Jets aren't the team dumb enough to make the mistake of drafting him. 

[BroadwayJoe12]

I'll take that bet. This kid's gonna bust, and hard - I just pray the Jets aren't the team dumb enough to make the mistake of drafting him. 

 

Okay. In three to four years, I'll make sure to come back so one of us can get their proper comeuppance. 

[IPBanBadPosters]

Okay. In three to four years, I'll make sure to come back so one of us can get their proper comeuppance. 

 

In 3-4 years, if the Jets draft Winston, I'll likely be dead of alcohol poisoning.

[flgreen]

I agree in principle, but there's a limit. He walked around the FSU campus shooting squirrels with a BB gun.

All the more reason I want him.  I hate the fuzzy tailed lil rats

[BroadwayJoe12]

In 3-4 years, if the Jets draft Winston, I'll likely be dead of alcohol poisoning.

 

Preaching to the choir. Celebrating certainly can get out of hand. 

[artemusclyde]

Every QB taken in the first round is in some part a product of the talent around them, you think Andrew Luck didn't benefit from playing behind David Decastro and Jonathan Martin, while throwing to Fleener, Baldiwn and Zach Ertz, while having one of the best rushing games and defenses in college football??  Of course he did, but that's not what made him special.  

 

Listen, I get it, you don't like Winston, I happen to think he has a lot of potential; strong arm, good pocket awareness and accuracy to go along with a prototypical frame.  His offensive line is great on the perimeter, but have you seen and FSU games? The middle of their line constantly gives up pressure as they did quite often in the ND game; Jameis hung in there and took a number of hits while regrouping and going 15-16 for 180 yards and a score in the second half.  

 

I personally don't like the kid, think he's a jackass, but believe he's going to be the best QB in this class by far.  His off-the-field antics are certainly worth worrying about, but watch him on the field, he doesn't sulk and hang out by himself on the bench, he takes ownership of his mistakes and his teammates rally behind him.  To each his own, we'll have to see what happens.

 

Not happening, Mariota's going to end up as the best qb in this draft when all is said and done. Play's with a team that is way worse talent wise then FSU, and puts up better numbers then Winston does. Also protects the ball and isn't careless with it like Winston. Not to mention the fact that without Mariota, that Oregon team is sh*t. Without Winston, as evident by how they beat Clemson, that FSU team is still a very competitive team.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Not happening, Mariota's going to end up as the best qb in this draft when all is said and done. Play's with a team that is way worse talent wise then FSU, and puts up better numbers then Winston does. Also protects the ball and isn't careless with it like Winston. Not to mention the fact that without Mariota, that Oregon team is sh*t. Without Winston, as evident by how they beat Clemson, that FSU team is still a very competitive team.

 

?? Mariota has 25 career fumbles, while losing 10: he's careless with the ball in the pocket and certainly while running.  A lot of people knock Winston for being a product of his team, but then fail to mention that Mariota certainly benefits from his system. You think he's going to have those clear, wide-open passing lanes in the NFL? or make those one-read passes every single time to wide open receivers? If Winston gets knocked for it, Mariota certainly should as well.  I like him a lot, we'd be lucky to land him, I just personally think Winston is going to be the better pro.  Just as I did with Manziel, I've said my piece on Winston and will let time tell how it unfolds. 

[artemusclyde]

?? Mariota has 25 career fumbles, while losing 10: he's careless with the ball in the pocket and certainly while running.  A lot of people knock Winston for being a product of his team, but then fail to mention that Mariota certainly benefits from his system. You think he's going to have those clear, wide-open passing lanes in the NFL? or make those one-read passes every single time to wide open receivers? If Winston gets knocked for it, Mariota certainly should as well.  I like him a lot, we'd be lucky to land him, I just personally think Winston is going to be the better pro.  Just as I did with Manziel, I've said my piece on Winston and will let time tell how it unfolds. 

 

The system that let's him get sacked like 8 times a game? And one read system? Considering one of Mariota's strengths is going through progressions I'm quite sure you have never watched the kid play. 

[IPBanBadPosters]

Preaching to the choir. Celebrating certainly can get out of hand. 

 

I'll give you this, your troll-fu certainly is strong.

 

Not happening, Mariota's going to end up as the best qb in this draft when all is said and done. Play's with a team that is way worse talent wise then FSU, and puts up better numbers then Winston does. Also protects the ball and isn't careless with it like Winston. Not to mention the fact that without Mariota, that Oregon team is sh*t. Without Winston, as evident by how they beat Clemson, that FSU team is still a very competitive team.

 

This. And frankly, based solely on their on-field play, it isn't even remotely close or debatable. Winston plays with an all-star cast chock full of 1st and 2nd rounders at virtually every position on the field, and on both sides of the ball; aside from a CB and arguably a C, Mariota's supporting cast is complete and utter sh*t. Despite all this, Winston has 16 TDs to 9 INT, compared to Mariota's 24 to 1 ratio. Hell, he threw 3 times as many picks as Mariota has on the season in the Louisville game alone. Winston has twice as many picks already this season alone than Mariota's had in the past 2 seasons combined! Winston only has 2 fewer picks this season than Mariota's had over the past 3 seasons combined!

 

I'm convinced that anyone who prefers Winston doesn't actually watch and evaluate the play on the field, but rather hears terms like "pocket passer" attributed to one and "running QB" attributed to the other, and projects their hopes and fears accordingly. 

 

Edited to add: none of this even takes into account the fact that he's a complete dirtbag off the field.

[BroadwayJoe12]

The system that let's him get sacked like 8 times a game? And one read system? Considering one of Mariota's strengths is going through progressions I'm quite sure you have never watched the kid play. 

 

 

I'll give you this, your troll-fu certainly is strong.

 

 

This. And frankly, based solely on their on-field play, it isn't even remotely close or debatable. Winston plays with an all-star cast chock full of 1st and 2nd rounders at virtually every position on the field, and on both sides of the ball; aside from a CB and arguably a C, Mariota's supporting cast is complete and utter sh*t. Despite all this, Winston has 16 TDs to 9 INT, compared to Mariota's 24 to 1 ratio. Hell, he threw 3 times as many picks as Mariota has on the season in the Louisville game alone. Winston has twice as many picks already this season alone than Mariota's had in the past 2 seasons combined! Winston only has 2 fewer picks this season than Mariota's had over the past 3 seasons combined!

 

I'm convinced that anyone who prefers Winston doesn't actually watch and evaluate the play on the field, but rather hears terms like "pocket passer" attributed to one and "running QB" attributed to the other, and projects their hopes and fears accordingly. 

 

Edited to add: none of this even takes into account the fact that he's a complete dirtbag off the field.

 

 

What is it with some of you guys that just can't seem to grasp someone having a differing opinion on players?  Mariota is one of the best QBs in college football and potential #1 overall pick, of course he's going to have the ability to go through his progressions, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Oregon's offense is rooted in pre-snap reads that allow the QB to make quick decisions immediately after the snap. The times that Mariota has gotten into trouble has been when that first option is covered, just like many QBs.  Every QB  save for Luck is going to have many htings he needs to work on, doens't mean he's not a great prospect. Christ, you guys are touchy.  Geno Smith threw 42 TDs to 6 interceptions his senior year and that didn't stop him from throwing them at the pro level.  Nick Foles threw 28 tds and 14 picks, yet he's done a good job of limiting them in the pros. I don't care too much about the stats at the college level, I just want to know how they play and I happen to like how Winston plays, why that's so painful for you guys to comprehend is beyond me.  

 

Mariota is a great prospect, please tell me where I said he wasn't? I mean sweet sh*t, preferring Winston over Mariota does not equate to me not like the latter. I don't need to convince anyone who's better, I like both, but would prefer to have Winston, we'll just have to see what happens.

[dbatesman]

Squirrels, you guys. Squirrels.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Squirrels, you guys. Squirrels.

 

You try sleeping at night, let alone repeating as national champions with these little f*ckers scheming outside your dorm room.  

 

[RutgersJetFan]

Come to the Northeast, the f*ckers run rampant. Just fuzzy rats. If nothing else, this galvanizes my desire to draft him.

It's Tallahassee, I'm sure that he's capped out on the amount of nonsense he's able to dive into. Honestly New York is the last thing that dude needs. 2/1 he'd be hanging out with JR Smith within a week.

[joewilly12]

I agree in principle, but there's a limit. He walked around the FSU campus shooting squirrels with a BB gun.

Squirrels are rats with tails they should all be shot how was his accuracy.

[BroadwayJoe12]

It's Tallahassee, I'm sure that he's capped out on the amount of nonsense he's able to dive into. Honestly New York is the last thing that dude needs. 2/1 he'd be hanging out with JR Smith within a week.

 

Good, he could probably teach JR how to prepare like a professional.

 

 

Joking aside, I certainly understand the hesitation with Jameis, he's done pretty much everything that a kid could do to lower his stock off-the-field, but I still think he's gonna be a hell of a player.  Give him the Dez/Josh Hamilton treatment and have a group of babysitters follow him around all day.  I think just like Cam, you'll see a kid put a few years in the league, get some life experience and some of these immaturity issues will go away.  On the other hand, there's the real possibility he ends up in jail or suspended. I guess you gotta go by which you think is more likely.

[houyx]

Good, he could probably teach JR how to prepare like a professional.

 

 

Joking aside, I certainly understand the hesitation with Jameis, he's done pretty much everything that a kid could do to lower his stock off-the-field, but I still think he's gonna be a hell of a player.  Give him the Dez/Josh Hamilton treatment and have a group of babysitters follow him around all day.  I think just like Cam, you'll see a kid put a few years in the league, get some life experience and some of these immaturity issues will go away.  On the other hand, there's the real possibility he ends up in jail or suspended. I guess you gotta go by which you think is more likely.

 

You can't fix stupid.  No amount of coaching is going to make Winston or anybody else more intelligent.  

 

If he's dumb, he's dumb.  Its part of who he is.  That will never change.

[RutgersJetFan]

Good, he could probably teach JR how to prepare like a professional.

Joking aside, I certainly understand the hesitation with Jameis, he's done pretty much everything that a kid could do to lower his stock off-the-field, but I still think he's gonna be a hell of a player. Give him the Dez/Josh Hamilton treatment and have a group of babysitters follow him around all day. I think just like Cam, you'll see a kid put a few years in the league, get some life experience and some of these immaturity issues will go away. On the other hand, there's the real possibility he ends up in jail or suspended. I guess you gotta go by which you think is more likely.

And if there is one organization that can pull such a behavior transition off, by God it's the Jets.

[pdxgreen]

The only way to guarantee the Jets future is to draft a QB with a rebel personality. We need a leader who dates Ann Margaret, wears furs coats on the field and prefers champagne to beer. I say Winston! Mariota would give us stability, professionalism and leadership. Who the hell wants that?!

[T0mShane]

And if there is one organization that can pull such a behavior transition off, by God it's the Jets.

They'd hire a babysitter, but that babysitter would be JR Smith.

[T0mShane]

The only way to guarantee the Jets future is to draft a QB with a rebel personality. We need a leader who dates Ann Margaret, wears furs coats on the field and prefers champagne to beer. I say Winston! Mariota would give us stability, professionalism and leadership. Who the hell wants that?!

I think Ann Margaret is dead.

[SickJetFan]

Rashard Geeneroutinely takes 5 yard curl routes to the house.  Nick O'Leary roams the field unguarded 90% of the game.  He plays behind a NFL caliber OL and throws to wide-open, uncovered, 5 star recruits playing in the weakest conference in college Football and has never faced a defense who actually plays defense.

 

Watch him this Thurs.  He's a one read QB, throwing to wide open receivers, all night long.  He's not overly impressive if asked to do anything else other than when he runs, which is an attribute a million college QB's have done before him.  Only difference is his size. 

 

He scares the sh*t out of me in the NFL...but damn, its hard to imagine passing on him in the draft when you're as desperate as the Jets when it comes the QB position.

 

I hope he plays Baseball and we dont have to worry about it.  haha

I've seen plenty of jet games with wide open TE and WR but the ball never gets there and with a beautiful pocket.

 

Good qd's make it look easy always getting the ball to the open guy.  Its not a unique concept outside jetnation.

[flgreen]

Squirrels are rats with tails they should all be shot how was his accuracy.

 

That's the problem.  He didn't hit any.

[Shadetree]

That's the problem. He didn't hit any.

Geno and Vick clip squirrels at a 50% death completion rate.

Winston? 65 % of his squirrels die and rot in the Florida sun.

I still don't want him but color me impressed.

[BroadwayJoe12]

You can't fix stupid.  No amount of coaching is going to make Winston or anybody else more intelligent.  

 

If he's dumb, he's dumb.  Its part of who he is.  That will never change.

 

I don't care if he's dumb, most of these guys are. Just keep him out of jail and maintain status in the league and I'm fine.

[houyx]

I don't care if he's dumb, most of these guys are. Just keep him out of jail and maintain status in the league and I'm fine.

 

Most NFL QB's aren't stupid.

 

Brady, Manning, Luck weren't stupid coming out of college.

 

You don't have be be a Rhoade Scholar to be an NFL QB, average to slightly above average intelligence is good enough but you can't be stupid like Winston (or Vince Young).

[BroadwayJoe12]

Most NFL QB's aren't stupid.

 

Brady, Manning, Luck weren't stupid coming out of college.

 

You don't have be be a Rhoade Scholar to be an NFL QB, average to slightly above average intelligence is good enough but you can't be stupid like Winston (or Vince Young).

 

 

Again, there's a difference between being smart and being football smart, Winston is running Fischer's offense better than others who were touted as more intelligent.  For the record, the Mannings aren't the most intelligent people in the world, they're just brilliant football minds, there's a giant difference.  

 

I would argue your claim that most NFL QBs aren't stupid, they are not highly intelligent people, they're just very good at what they do and that's all I care about. For all his faults, I think Winston has that, I'm not so sure why that's hard to understand.  

[houyx]

Again, there's a difference between being smart and being football smart, Winston is running Fischer's offense better than others who were touted as more intelligent.  For the record, the Mannings aren't the most intelligent people in the world, they're just brilliant football minds, there's a giant difference.  

 

I would argue your claim that most NFL QBs aren't stupid, they are not highly intelligent people, they're just very good at what they do and that's all I care about. For all his faults, I think Winston has that, I'm not so sure why that's hard to understand.  

 

Smarts, football smarts.... that's total BS.

 

Its call specialized training.

 

If you take a doctor and ask him to do computer programming, he won't be able to do very well.  Because that's not what he was trained in.  Or vice versa (ask a computer programmer to practice medicine).  But if you trained either one in programming or medicine for years then they would probably eventually get pretty good at it.  But a decent amount of intelligence is needed.  

 

The Mannings, Tom Brady, Andrew Luck are great QB's because that's where the majority of their mental and athletic training has been dedicated towards.... at being quarterbacks.  But a basic (at least average) level of intelligence is needed to perform well as an NFL QB.

 

Winston doesn't have that level of intelligence.  Winston doesn't even have a good grasp of normal, everyday English.  No way in hell Winston has the intelligence to be a good NFL QB.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Smarts, football smarts.... that's total BS.

 

Its call specialized training.

 

If you take a doctor and ask him to do computer programming, he won't be able to do very well.  Because that's not what he was trained in.  Or vice versa (ask a computer programmer to practice medicine).  But if you trained either one in programming or medicine for years then they would probably eventually get pretty good at it.  But a decent amount of intelligence is needed.  

 

The Mannings, Tom Brady, Andrew Luck are great QB's because that's where the majority of their mental and athletic training has been dedicated towards.... at being quarterbacks.  But a basic (at least average) level of intelligence is needed to perform well as an NFL QB.

 

Winston doesn't have that level of intelligence.  Winston doesn't even have a good grasp of normal, everyday English.  No way in hell Winston has the intelligence to be a good NFL QB.

 

 

Mental training, gotcha.  Under Fischer, Winston runs a more complex system than half the QBs drafted the last few years, he's smart enough to handle the NFL.  

[houyx]

Mental training, gotcha.  Under Fischer, Winston runs a more complex system than half the QBs drafted the last few years, he's smart enough to handle the NFL.  

 

No, you don't understand.  

 

Mental training and intelligence.  They are 2 separate things.  Winston lacks intelligence.  He doesn't have the intelligence to master NFL systems.

 

Don't even try to compare the systems run in college to the ones run in the NFL.  They aren't even comparable.

[BroadwayJoe12]

No, you don't understand.  

 

Mental training and intelligence.  They are 2 separate things.  Winston lacks intelligence.  He doesn't have the intelligence to master NFL systems.

 

Don't even try to compare the systems run in college to the ones run in the NFL.  They aren't even comparable.

 

I've watched Jimbo as the OC and QB coach for my favorite team for the better part of the 2000s, you don't operate in his system without having enough football IQ.  You hear Winston speak and read about his off-the-field actions, but the kid is a phenomenal football talent and is running Fischer's offense as well as anyone in a long time.  Winston is not only pro-ready, he's more pro-ready than Mariota. Kid is gonna be a good one.