Jets' addition of Josh McCown bodes well for young quarterbacks

[JustInFudge]

16 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

"With God all things are possible"

Seriously?  Lets just give Mac a magic 8ball with a Buddha Belly to rub. 

[joewilly12]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

Seriously?  Lets just give Mac a magic 8ball with a Buddha Belly to rub. 

Isn't that what he keeps Bowles around for? 

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

 

I mean step back for a second, it's literally the same exact scenario the only difference is they didnt have to trade for the McCown and they didnt have a young QB that some fans will deny, was showing some signs of improvement on the roster.  Fitz' returns to familiar OC.  McCown returns to familiar OC both on the heels of using draft resources on QB's and these QB's have shown no promise. 

 

 

 

There are several differences.

1. Geno Smith was going to be the starter before he was punched in the face. (1st year)

2. In terms of the second year, Fitz was being paid 12m to start outright. McCown is only getting 6m. Therefore if he does end up starting, it's easier to cut bait.

3. The simple fact of going through the Fitz situation before makes it different because knowledge is power.

4. Geno Smith wasn't the most popular QB in the Jets are. Therefore, Bowles did not receive flack for going with Fitz. Here he will receive flack

[UnitedWhofans]

6 minutes ago, JiF said:

Seriously?  Lets just give Mac a magic 8ball with a Buddha Belly to rub. 

Unless you tell me it's not possible, it's possible

[ZachEY]

11 minutes ago, JiF said:

Yeah, it really is.  I dont want to rehash the same old argument but I patently disagree with everything you just said.  Players like Fitz and McCown are a huge waste of everyone's time. When you have that much history with a player, it's rarely reversed and the ending is predictable.  There is a ton more value in seeing what young players have whether they're a 2 and you other option is a 5 vs. hoping to strike lightening in a bottle and win a few more games than expected.  History has shown this does not work  9 times out of 10.  And it leaves that team in a bad situation.  And here we are. 

I mean step back for a second, it's literally the same exact scenario the only difference is they didnt have to trade for the McCown and they didnt have a young QB that some fans will deny, was showing some signs of improvement on the roster.  Fitz' returns to familiar OC.  McCown returns to familiar OC both on the heels of using draft resources on QB's and these QB's have shown no promise. 

Maybe I'm way off base but I see McCown starting next season for as long as they can bare it and that's just a poor decision and a road we've been down oh to recently before. 

They're literally repeating the exact same strategy that got them in this exact position. 

 

 

If they are repeating the exact same strategy, do you really think that cutting Brandon Marshall was a part of that strategy?

Fitz was a waste of time, no doubt, but it's my belief that he was here to win games.  It is not my belief that McCown is here to win games, and he's gotten no support in doing so.

The coaching staff sees what the young players have in practice.  If they are absolutely dreadful in practice, then they don't need to see them in games.  Realistically, you, the fan, wants to see what they have.  But, I simply don't think Bowles and the whole staff is so incredibly incompetent that they can't recognize talent or potential.  I think, simply put, Hackenberg sucks and Petty sucks.  And, as such, if McCown starts next season, while it's easy to blame Bowles, I think the real reason is obvious... That those players simply suck out loud.

Again, I ask... Why did we get rid of Brandon Marshall, who, unquestionably can still play, and we could still afford, if we were going to try to win games with McCown?

[prime21]

1 minute ago, gEYno said:

Again, I ask... Why did we get rid of Brandon Marshall, who, unquestionably can still play, and we could still afford, if we were going to try to win games with McCown?

Brando asked to be released.  The Jets were willing to pay him.

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, prime21 said:

Brando asked to be released.  The Jets were willing to pay him.

So, when a player asks to be released, you must honor it?

Kirk Cousins asked to be traded too.

[dbatesman]

56 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

So basically what jif and Dbatesman are saying is that Petty is hot garbage who will never improve on last year and Hackenberg, after one year on the bench, will never improve.

Got it.

Pretty much, yeah

[dbatesman]

46 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I think it does because McCown is less of a block to them than a Jay Cutler would have been

Signing no one at all would have been even less of a block. And yet. 

[ZachEY]

Just now, dbatesman said:

Signing no one at all would have been even less of a block. And yet. 

Asking because I don't know... Is there a team in the past decade or so who went into a season with 3 QBs combining for roughly 4 starts, 6 game appearances, and 133 passes?

If there's any precedent for this whatsoever, I'd be interested.

[UnitedWhofans]

5 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Pretty much, yeah

Well I think it's too early to make that statement. You might end up being correct, but I think it's too early to make that declaration

[jason423]

In general you dont pay a QB $6 million because you plan to sit him on the bench(unless you are the Eagles) so I would expect the Jets to consider McCown the starter going into training camp. My assumption is that they will treat this similar to how the Seahawks ended up treating Matt Flynn a few years back in that if one of the young guys stands out in training camp they will turn a non-competition into a new starter, but if neither looks great they will simply stick with the idea that  its McCown all along. Having an open QB competition would probably be a disaster for the Jets given McCowns injury history. Its pretty much a lock that McCown is going to miss games this year so you want to at least keep up some type of PR face that you arent throwing the year away going to these guys in the slimmest of slim chances the team is around 500 when McCown goes down. Even just from a PR standpoint it at least makes you look like you are making some kind of turn to the future if the team stinks and they bring these guys in rather than a total give up on the season in week 6 following a bad showing in meaningful time in August.

[thadude]

1 minute ago, jason423 said:

In general you dont pay a QB $6 million because you plan to sit him on the bench(unless you are the Eagles) so I would expect the Jets to consider McCown the starter going into training camp. My assumption is that they will treat this similar to how the Seahawks ended up treating Matt Flynn a few years back in that if one of the young guys stands out in training camp they will turn a non-competition into a new starter, but if neither looks great they will simply stick with the idea that  its McCown all along. Having an open QB competition would probably be a disaster for the Jets given McCowns injury history. Its pretty much a lock that McCown is going to miss games this year so you want to at least keep up some type of PR face that you arent throwing the year away going to these guys in the slimmest of slim chances the team is around 500 when McCown goes down. Even just from a PR standpoint it at least makes you look like you are making some kind of turn to the future if the team stinks and they bring these guys in rather than a total give up on the season in week 6 following a bad showing in meaningful time in August.

$6 million plus another $3-4 mil in incentives

 

McClown was brought here to start and he will start because Petty and Hack are even more terrible than he is and Bowles and Mac like being employed

[thadude]

9 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Signing no one at all would have been even less of a block. And yet. 

If Petty was even semi-decent in practice or last regular season they don't sign McClown or flirt with Glennon

[dbatesman]

5 minutes ago, jason423 said:

In general you dont pay a QB $6 million because you plan to sit him on the bench(unless you are the Eagles) so I would expect the Jets to consider McCown the starter going into training camp. 

J'accuse!

[Hael]

If McCown starts, he's a 8mil a year qb and there's basically no way the rest of the incentives kick in since we aren't going to the playoffs anytime soon.  That's an ok deal for a FA QB starter and basically the minimum.  So he's a mid to high priced backup or a very low payed starter.

[thadude]

4 minutes ago, Hael said:

If McCown starts, he's a 8mil a year qb and there's basically no way the rest of the incentives kick in since we aren't going to the playoffs anytime soon.  That's an ok deal for a FA QB starter and basically the minimum.  So he's a mid to high priced backup or a very low payed starter.

McClown gets $125k bonus for each game he plays 50% or more snaps in

 

This makes the Fitz contract look smart

[Hael]

Yep, over 16 games that's 2 mil.  So he's a backup at 6 or a starter at 8 with injury insurance.  It's very hard to find anything below that in free agency, especially when you are looking for intangibles and a vet presence.  Anything below that is basically bottom of the bucket backup money with caustic locker room value, like Geno Smith.

consider also that we have to pay more for players as a franchise given our situation.  People know they're going to come here and get mauled by the media, and have statistically poor seasons given the scarcity of talent.  

[Freemanm]

8 hours ago, Tinstar said:

Remember when that report came out that the Jets were high on Trubisky ? I wondered why anyone would leak such a thing that early especially with a franchise where news is all but impossible to attain . Trouble is, most people don't believe that the jets are going to go that way now, because of value and the way the roster appears . Get the news out early, allow people to jump on it and dismiss it, then sit back and reap the rewards .

I don't believe Bryce Petty has any future with the Jets and the Jets can't just put all their eggs in the Hackenberg basket or believe that things are going to be so bad that it will allow them the chance to keep their jobs and have the opportunity at Darnold, Rosen or Allen ..  

McCown is a bridge I think between Hackenberg and whoever we take in this draft .  I then see Hackenberg as the Bridge between who we take this draft and who we take in 2018 .

Unless he Hacks takes command of the team, then 2018 can become our draft for trading .

This should be the Jets only plan .  

I agree 110% with you, and that means something because I don't often agree with you! Petty showed us that he is a career back up at best. Bowles was too stupid and stubborn to even give Hackenburg a few snaps last season even though doing so would have made no difference whatsoever, so we don't even know what we have with him. If niether Watson nor Trubisky are available at 6 (and they probably won't be) then go BPA and go with your idea about drafting a franchise QB next year. We're not winning three games next year with McCown, if that.

[jack48]

we live in an age where teams shell out 6 million to a QB to lose games.  What did they say to Ralph Kiner in contract negotiations that time?  Team lost 100 games. We can do that without you?  18-42 as a starter?  Give me a break  Go cheap and lose that way.  Last year we gave a guy 12 mil to lose for us.  This year 6.  Maybe we are learning something, after all.

[Big Blocker]

17 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I think it does because McCown is less of a block to them than a Jay Cutler would have been

"less of a block" is not something that MAKES THEM BETTER. 

"less of a block" implies that, without being blocked, with no impediment to hold them back, they will be ready.  There's plenty of reason to think, at least so far, they have not been ready.  So why does signing McCown make them more ready?

I understand the part that Cutler would have played more than McCown is likely to play.  So yeah, signing Cutler would have meant it would have been less likely we would have seen Petty and/or Hackenberg on the field this coming season.

But signing McCown does nothing to make Petty and Hackenberg better Qb's.

I get that playing can make players better.  But it is no guarantee.

In other words IF either Petty or Hackenberg as of now only needs some development in camp and pre-season to get to a point where they will be ready in the coming season to go out and make good use of playing in real games, after some period of watching McCown, then that will be a good scenario for them.

But let me be clear - I don't think either Petty or Hack are near that point.  Hope I am wrong.

[TheSage]

I don't know whether Petty or Hackenberg are the QBs of the future here but bringing in a McCown is not going to hurt their development like a qb who wants and expects to start. If anything, McC is auditioning for a post career coaching spot with an occasional game appearance. No knocks on the signing, cheap and experienced and doesn't"t seem like a boat rocker.

[JustInFudge]

19 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Unless you tell me it's not possible, it's possible

Oh really?  Why dont you become the starting QB for the NY Jets.  I mean, it's possible because God. 

[JustInFudge]

19 hours ago, gEYno said:

If they are repeating the exact same strategy, do you really think that cutting Brandon Marshall was a part of that strategy?

Fitz was a waste of time, no doubt, but it's my belief that he was here to win games.  It is not my belief that McCown is here to win games, and he's gotten no support in doing so.

The coaching staff sees what the young players have in practice.  If they are absolutely dreadful in practice, then they don't need to see them in games.  Realistically, you, the fan, wants to see what they have.  But, I simply don't think Bowles and the whole staff is so incredibly incompetent that they can't recognize talent or potential.  I think, simply put, Hackenberg sucks and Petty sucks.  And, as such, if McCown starts next season, while it's easy to blame Bowles, I think the real reason is obvious... That those players simply suck out loud.

Again, I ask... Why did we get rid of Brandon Marshall, who, unquestionably can still play, and we could still afford, if we were going to try to win games with McCown?

I dont see how a psychopath locker room destroyer that is statically one worst in the league at his job factors into this equation.  That said, the rumor is they tried to extend him. And historically speaking, Brandon Marshall has never helped any team win enough games for it to mean something.

I think you're giving Bowles way too much credit.  He's completely incompetent.  And 2 season now have shown his inability to recognize talent and move on from terrible vets.

And again, McCown sucks out loud.  He's terrible.  Everyone in the league knows it.  He doesnt nothing for this franchise.  It's 10x better to just let the kids suck than do the same stupid sh*t they just did for the last 2 years.

I hope I'm wrong but I see this as pretty cut and dry.  They didnt pay him to come here and mentor.  The idea of mentoring is stupid to begin with and the idea you want these kids to learn anything from sh*tty journeyman like Fitz and McCown is even more stupid. 

 

[UnitedWhofans]

10 minutes ago, JiF said:

Oh really?  Why dont you become the starting QB for the NY Jets.  I mean, it's possible because God. 

It's possible but improbable.

"when you have eliminated the impossible, the result, however improbable must be the truth"

[JustInFudge]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

It's possible but improbable

So then do it.  Are you scared?  What do you have to lose? 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, JiF said:

So then do it.  Are you scared?  What do you have to lose? 

I don't want to. I have freedom of will. I don't want to get any more religous l so I will leave it at that

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I don't want to. I have freedom of will. I don't want to get any more religous l so I will leave it at that

You are strange AF

[southparkcpa]

FROM WIKI.............         He was then drafted by the Cardinals in the third round of the 2002 NFL Draft and played for the team from 2002 to 2005. He was mainly the backup quarterback during his tenure with the Cardinals but was the team's primary starter in 2004. He was a backup with the Detroit Lions in 2006 and was traded to the Oakland Raiders in 2007, where he started nine games. He was then traded to the Miami Dolphins in 2008 but was traded to the Carolina Panthers before the start of the 2008 regular season. He was a backup with the Panthers from 2008 to 2009. McCown then played for the Hartford Colonials of the United Football League in 2010, followed by a short off-season stint with the San Francisco 49ers in 2011. He was then a backup with the Chicago Bears from 2011 to 2013. In 2013, McCown had his best statistical season. In eight games, and five starts, in place of an injured Jay Cutler, McCown threw for 1,829 yards, 13 touchdowns and one interception, garnering the third-best passer rating in the NFL. He then signed with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, where he was the team's primary starter in 2014. However, after underperforming, he was released by the team and signed by the Cleveland Browns. He was the primary starter for the Browns in 2015 and a backup for the Browns in 2016. He was released by the Browns after the 2016 season and then signed with the New York Jets.

 

If that doesnt make you throw up............

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, gEYno said:

You are strange AF

I know. 

 

[JustInFudge]

7 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I don't want to. I have freedom of will. I don't want to get any more religous l so I will leave it at that

You dont want to be the QB of the NY Jets?

 

[ZachEY]

7 minutes ago, JiF said:

I dont see how a psychopath locker room destroyer that is statically one worst in the league at his job factors into this equation.  That said, the rumor is they tried to extend him. And historically speaking, Brandon Marshall has never helped any team win enough games for it to mean something.

I think you're giving Bowles way too much credit.  He's completely incompetent.  And 2 season now have shown his inability to recognize talent and move on from terrible vets.

And again, McCown sucks out loud.  He's terrible.  Everyone in the league knows it.  He doesnt nothing for this franchise.  It's 10x better to just let the kids suck than do the same stupid sh*t they just did for the last 2 years.

I hope I'm wrong but I see this as pretty cut and dry.  They didnt pay him to come here and mentor.  The idea of mentoring is stupid to begin with and the idea you want these kids to learn anything from sh*tty journeyman like Fitz and McCown is even more stupid. 

What talent has been sitting on the Jets bench, unrecognized?  Genuinely want to know.

I've also never uttered the word mentor once.  The concept is nonsensical.  I don't propose to know what Macc/Bowles have planned.  I suspect that McCown is here because of the very real possibility that Petty and Hack are complete garbage, and they want someone in there who can provide minimum levels of competence, if necessary.  But, I won't be convinced that McCown will start over Hack/Petty if either Hack or Petty demonstrate they belong on an NFL football field.  Thus far, they have not.

[UnitedWhofans]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

You dont want to be the QB of the NY Jets?

 

Hell no. I would rather be owner, which would require me to come into a ton of money.

[UnitedWhofans]

3 minutes ago, gEYno said:

What talent has been sitting on the Jets bench, unrecognized?  Genuinely want to know.

I've also never uttered the word mentor once.  The concept is nonsensical.  I don't propose to know what Macc/Bowles have planned.  I suspect that McCown is here because of the very real possibility that Petty and Hack are complete garbage, and they want someone in there who can provide minimum levels of competence, if necessary.  But, I won't be convinced that McCown will start over Hack/Petty if either Hack or Petty demonstrate they belong on an NFL football field.  Thus far, they have not.

Agreed and the pre season will tell us a lot

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, gEYno said:

What talent has been sitting on the Jets bench, unrecognized?  Genuinely want to know.

I've also never uttered the word mentor once.  The concept is nonsensical.  I don't propose to know what Macc/Bowles have planned.  I suspect that McCown is here because of the very real possibility that Petty and Hack are complete garbage, and they want someone in there who can provide minimum levels of competence, if necessary.  But, I won't be convinced that McCown will start over Hack/Petty if either Hack or Petty demonstrate they belong on an NFL football field.  Thus far, they have not.

They took a 2nd round pick on a QB.  Play him.  Let him get all the 1st team reps, let him prepare as a starter and put the mother ****er to the fire.  Who cares if he sucks?  You're the a$$hole who wasted a 2nd round pick on him.  And guess what, Josh McCown sucks out loud anyway, so what's the difference? 

I assumed when you said, "I'ts not my belief that McCown was brought here to win games" that you were implying he was here to mentor.  Otherwise, why is he here?  Who gives a **** about minimum levels of competence?  What good does that do for anyone?  Besides, I'm not even sure McCown is that.  He's really ******* bad.  And again, if you dont believe that Petty and Hack are going to belong in the league, than McCown is your starter and the Jets are going to try and win games with him as the starter.  I promise you, Todd Bowles wants to win as many games as he can.

It's all moronic.  The strategy should have been to give Hack every single chance he had to prepare to be the starter.  If it's preseason time and he's an absolute sh*t bag, you could go get yourself another 47 year old QB with minimum competence.  But that's not what they did...they brought him here to start.