The cigar store Indian has got to go!

jetrider · October 24, 2017

I wish we had Rex when Jenkins' TD was reversed. That would've been colorful.

joewilly12 · October 24, 2017

28 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Sorry. One of the dumbest things I've read. But don't worry I see alot of fans say the same thing..What exactly is the demeanor he should have or what YOU want HIS demeanor to be?

And how the hell is his demeanor much different than Belichick's (which includes press conferences)..Tom Landry's?

Comparing Todd Bowles to Bill Belichick in any way shape or form is the most dumbest things I've ever read here. I watch a lot of football college and pro and I see head coaches talking to players on the sidelines Bowels does none of this he just stands there with that dumb look on his face like he's not even part of this team or game going on.

LOL Bill Belichick and Tom Landry in the same sentence as Todd Bowles LOL

Ken Schroy · October 24, 2017

On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 8:50 AM, gEYno said:

We are going to be such a good football team once Bowles is gone!

Bowles = Rich Kotex. They played hard.....

**Sperm Edwards** · October 24, 2017

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

the dolphins, giants, titans and cowboys were just awful that year and we needed OT to beat NYG and barely scraped by Dallas and their 3rd string QB. the only good team we beta was NE but something weird was happening w/ them late that year. BB made two incredibly odd decisions in that game, at the end of the 1st half NE got the ball w/ 2 TOs and just under 2 mins left trailing 10-3 and decided to run out the clock. It was as bizarre a decision as I have ever seen from them in the Tom Brady era. Then in OT they win the toss and give us the ball. so that was our only win against a good team and that marked the turning point in Bowles' HC career. After that game it's been disastrous. that season we beat:

3-13 Cleveland

8-8 Indy

6-10 Miami 2x

9-7 Washington who did make the playoffs in that weak division BUT they were not good early in the season. they started 2-4/3-5/4-6/5-7 before winning their last 4.

5-11 Jax(hung on)

6-10 NYG

3-13 Ten

4-12 Dal

12-4 NE

we lost to:

7-9 Philly

12-4 NE

7-9 Oak

7-9 Buf 2x

9-7 Hou

4 of our 6 losses were to teams under .500

Clock mgmt. is an issue for most teams and I don't have it tracked, I just watch every game and see them burning TOs. Let's look back since he took over in close games in the 2nd half at time out usage, this doesn't count when to run the clock out, when to try to be aggressive, etc... just TO usage in 2nd halves of close games:

2015

at Ind: dumb challenge early 3rd costs us TO. that's part of decision making too. It didn't hurt us though.

vs. Phi: no issues

vs. Was: the final score was a blowout but we trailed going into the 3rd and it was a one score game when we called our 1st TO in the 3rd.

at NE: no issue, use of Tos actually gave us a chance w/ an OS kick.

vs. Jax: no issue

vs. Buf: no issue

at Hou: no issue

at NYG: no issue

at Dal: no issue

vs. NE: no issue

Looks pretty good most of 2015 then week 17 came along and he has never recovered. after not having his team prepared to play and again getting outcoached by Rex he would burn his first TO in the 3rd qtr.

2016:

vs. Cin: TO #1 in 3rd qtr, TO #2 w/ 5 mins left and trailing in 4th. if we have those TOs we would have had a much better chance at the end of the game instead of 40 secs w/ no TOs.

vs. Sea: trailed 17-10 going into the 4th, burned 2 TOs byh early 4th qtr.

vs. Bal: no issues

at Cle: TO #1 in the 3rd, TO #2 w/ 7 mins left

at Mia: wasted TO w/ 6 mins left, wasn't 3rd qtr but we could have used it later.

vs. LA: TO #1 in 3rd qtr

vs. NE: TO #1 early 3rd,

at SF: no issues

2017:

vs. Jax: w/ 5 mins left leading b/c they were unprepared for a 3rd and 1

at Cle: no issues

vs. NE: used TWO early 3rd qtr, we really could have used those later.

at Mia: no issues

as you can see he was good until that week 17 meltdown which falls in line w/ his HC career, did a decent job until that HUGE game. since then it has been all downhill.

You can't use the roster excuse for this year AND last year since you are using preseason expectations. a year ago we were expected to be a playoff type team, everyone thought we had all the pieces to make a little run- to at least make the playoffs. The bottom line is through 3 years he has not been good overall, I love his team is competing this year but once in a position to actually do something he can't get anything done.

I always defend HCs, I hate changing coaches. I wanted to give Bowles this year and I liked what he did early in the season and even liked how he rallied them after the bad blown call vs. NE but they blew that game vs. NE bad call or not and they really blew this week's game. it's not a coincidence that they keep blowing double digit leads.

First off, I'd like to commend you on the length of this post. If more people did this, the world would be a better place.

Second, you're being too generous with regard to 2015. The things you're skipping are the freak luck events and especially injury reports. Now of course we play the players we have available and so does the other team. But it goes without saying that it's easier to compete against a team that is missing certain key starters (e.g. Cowboys without Romo), and teams that are missing multiple starters, where the backups aren't just a tiny downgrade. Otherwise we might as well say it was inexcusable for the Jets not to repeat 1998's success in 1999.

4 of our illustrious 10 wins came vs these "harder" matchups:

vs Indy:

Luck clearly was a shell of himself physically. Hilton's knee was injured and, while he did play, he couldn't get any separation. Even still, with the game close in the 3rd Q, and Indy driving, on the 1 yard line an untouched Gore just inexplicably coughs up the ball, and bounced right to Revis. Two of their top 3 corners missed the entire game, leaving just Vontae Davis...who then got injured, left the game before halftime, and didn't return. Mathis also was only on the field for like a dozen snaps.

vs Washington:

A half dozen key starters missed the entire game outright: LT Trent Williams, C Lichtensteiger, TE Jordan Reed, WR DeSean Jackson, CB DeAngelo Hall, CB Chris Culliver. To say the team we faced was a playoff team is taking the term to its literal absurdity.

vs Houston:

They grabbed (3rd string? 4th string?) T.J. Yates off the street because every other QB on the roster was injured. Kareem Jackson also missed the game.

vs NE (2nd matchup)

Injuries, DNP: 2 starting safeties Chung & McCourty (we know the Jets think this is a big deal); 2 starting WRs Edelman & Amendola; starting RB Blount; and starting LT Solder also missed both our matchups.

On the flip side, we played a good game vs a healthy NE team in our first matchup and got ref-robbed. Can't remember what it was offhand now, but I want to there was a laughable, uncalled DPI on a TD pass to Cumberland, and something else.

C Mart · October 24, 2017

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Comparing Todd Bowles to Bill Belichick in any way shape or form is the most dumbest things I've ever read here. I watch a lot of football college and pro and I see head coaches talking to players on the sidelines Bowels does none of this he just stands there with that dumb look on his face like he's not even part of this team or game going on.

LOL Bill Belichick and Tom Landry in the same sentence as Todd Bowles LOL

I’m comparing demeanor which was your criticism. nothing to do w/records.

joewilly12 · October 24, 2017

2 minutes ago, C Mart said:

I’m comparing demeanor which was your criticism. nothing to do w/records.

Comparing the two for anything is a crime.

C Mart · October 24, 2017

6 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Comparing the two for anything is a crime.

That’s BS and you know it. You were complaining about demeanor. So tell me the difference in the demeanor between the two?

joewilly12 · October 24, 2017

1 minute ago, C Mart said:

That’s BS and you know it. You were complaining about demeanor. So tell me the difference in the demeanor between the two?

Ok let me try. BB has won 5 Super Bowls he can basically do as he pleases on the sideline and what he does and doesn't do seems to be working.

Todd Bowles has won nothing in the NFL and has earned nothing so standing on the sidelines looking like a moron might be considered ok for you its not for me and many others.

C Mart · October 24, 2017

12 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Ok let me try. BB has won 5 Super Bowls he can basically do as he pleases on the sideline and what he does and doesn't do seems to be working.

Todd Bowles has won nothing in the NFL and has earned nothing so standing on the sidelines looking like a moron might be considered ok for you its not for me and many others.

nothing to do w/records, SBs..Demeanor.

Definition of demeanor

behavior toward others :outward manner

joewilly12 · October 24, 2017

1 minute ago, C Mart said:

nothing to do w/records, SBs..Demeanor.

Definition of demeanor

behavior toward others :outward manner

Bowles has 0 demeanor and no reactions on the sidelines.

*thread started calling him a cigar store Indian.

C Mart · October 24, 2017

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Bowles has 0 demeanor and no reactions on the sidelines.

*thread started calling him a cigar store Indian.

your earlier post : "I don't see him as a players coach at all his demeanor on the sidelines is the worst in the NFL as far as I'm concerned. "

joewilly12 · October 24, 2017

1 minute ago, C Mart said:

your earlier post : "I don't see him as a players coach at all his demeanor on the sidelines is the worst in the NFL as far as I'm concerned. "

Ok other coaches talk to players on the sidelines after good and and plays he does neither.

C Mart · October 24, 2017

anyway enjoy the rest of the season..I took a month or so off from here but still see the same people still bitching about the same things...

C Mart · October 24, 2017

Just now, joewilly12 said:

Ok other coaches talk to players on the sidelines after good and and plays he does neither.

BS...he did it the other day w/Maye's INT..

take care

joewilly12 · October 24, 2017

Just now, C Mart said:

anyway enjoy the rest of the season..I took a month or so off from here but still see the same people still bitching about the same things...

With valid reason....

joewilly12 · October 24, 2017

1 minute ago, C Mart said:

BS...he did it the other day w/Maye's INT..

take care

Go EZ its just a game, you have your opinions and I have mine. Im not a Todd Bowles fan until he proves me wrong.

RESNewYork · October 24, 2017

4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

the dolphins, giants, titans and cowboys were just awful that year and we needed OT to beat NYG and barely scraped by Dallas and their 3rd string QB. the only good team we beta was NE but something weird was happening w/ them late that year. BB made two incredibly odd decisions in that game, at the end of the 1st half NE got the ball w/ 2 TOs and just under 2 mins left trailing 10-3 and decided to run out the clock. It was as bizarre a decision as I have ever seen from them in the Tom Brady era. Then in OT they win the toss and give us the ball. so that was our only win against a good team and that marked the turning point in Bowles' HC career. After that game it's been disastrous. that season we beat:

3-13 Cleveland

8-8 Indy

6-10 Miami 2x

9-7 Washington who did make the playoffs in that weak division BUT they were not good early in the season. they started 2-4/3-5/4-6/5-7 before winning their last 4.

5-11 Jax(hung on)

6-10 NYG

3-13 Ten

4-12 Dal

12-4 NE

we lost to:

7-9 Philly

12-4 NE

7-9 Oak

7-9 Buf 2x

9-7 Hou

4 of our 6 losses were to teams under .500

Clock mgmt. is an issue for most teams and I don't have it tracked, I just watch every game and see them burning TOs. Let's look back since he took over in close games in the 2nd half at time out usage, this doesn't count when to run the clock out, when to try to be aggressive, etc... just TO usage in 2nd halves of close games:

2015

at Ind: dumb challenge early 3rd costs us TO. that's part of decision making too. It didn't hurt us though.

vs. Phi: no issues

vs. Was: the final score was a blowout but we trailed going into the 3rd and it was a one score game when we called our 1st TO in the 3rd.

at NE: no issue, use of Tos actually gave us a chance w/ an OS kick.

vs. Jax: no issue

vs. Buf: no issue

at Hou: no issue

at NYG: no issue

at Dal: no issue

vs. NE: no issue

Looks pretty good most of 2015 then week 17 came along and he has never recovered. after not having his team prepared to play and again getting outcoached by Rex he would burn his first TO in the 3rd qtr.

2016:

vs. Cin: TO #1 in 3rd qtr, TO #2 w/ 5 mins left and trailing in 4th. if we have those TOs we would have had a much better chance at the end of the game instead of 40 secs w/ no TOs.

vs. Sea: trailed 17-10 going into the 4th, burned 2 TOs byh early 4th qtr.

vs. Bal: no issues

at Cle: TO #1 in the 3rd, TO #2 w/ 7 mins left

at Mia: wasted TO w/ 6 mins left, wasn't 3rd qtr but we could have used it later.

vs. LA: TO #1 in 3rd qtr

vs. NE: TO #1 early 3rd,

at SF: no issues

2017:

vs. Jax: w/ 5 mins left leading b/c they were unprepared for a 3rd and 1

at Cle: no issues

vs. NE: used TWO early 3rd qtr, we really could have used those later.

at Mia: no issues

as you can see he was good until that week 17 meltdown which falls in line w/ his HC career, did a decent job until that HUGE game. since then it has been all downhill.

You can't use the roster excuse for this year AND last year since you are using preseason expectations. a year ago we were expected to be a playoff type team, everyone thought we had all the pieces to make a little run- to at least make the playoffs. The bottom line is through 3 years he has not been good overall, I love his team is competing this year but once in a position to actually do something he can't get anything done.

I always defend HCs, I hate changing coaches. I wanted to give Bowles this year and I liked what he did early in the season and even liked how he rallied them after the bad blown call vs. NE but they blew that game vs. NE bad call or not and they really blew this week's game. it's not a coincidence that they keep blowing double digit leads.

Nice post. Replying feels like homework.

So your notes of 2015. Your opinion of the victories is we beat bad teams. We also beat the Pats because the coach made bad decisions which means you're saying Bowles out coached Belly that game. Are you saying we should have went 13-3. We were 4-12 the previous season.

Your notes on 2nd half timeouts. You realize there are moments when you should use a time out. For example, maybe you're in the red zone and the play call doesn't look good against the defense the QB is looking at. Is it ok to call a time out then? Is the use of a 2nd half time out always the fault of the coach? Didn't belly use a time out in the 2nd half of our game? Is this data you compiled show the Jets have a propensity to use 2nd half time outs? As far as clock management, you can google any coach and you get results of how said NFL coach made a clock management mistake

I don't necessarily think I'm using the roster as an excuse. But you have to admit you can only take the talent, or the lack of talent so far, no matter who the coach is.

You're right, 2016 had higher expectations but those players fell of the cliff and there is no way you can win with the QB play we got from Fitz. Again, those players we cut are no longer in the NFL or playing.

We can go back and forth about 2017 but it's not even half over yet.

I appreciate your opinion as to why Bowles should be fired. I believe strongly Mac and Bowles should not be fired. I barely post here, that's how strongly I believe that. My opinion, he's the best coach we've had since parcells. Simply put, feel he does more with less. Our opinions of the rosters he's worked with differ. There is thread after thread of the importance of getting a QB, fans rooting for losses to get Darnold, and the starting QBs for Bowles has been Fitz, Geno, Petty, McCown. Hopefully Mac with the cap and the draft, we see an influx of young talent.

At the end of the season, if they do fire Bowles, they better have a damn plan in place. History shows just because you hire a new coach doesn't mean improved coaching. And they better have contracts for Mac and this new coach that line up. No more fire one that has to work with another.

On a side note. Now that the Giants are 1-6, the media is now reporting, Macadoo is losing the locker room, coaches have bad strategy, the players are undisciplined and are giving up. Dont you think it's just lazy reporting and a false narrative to get readers?

And another side note. Since we are playing the Falcons, Dan Quinn was hired the same year as Bowles. Great coach right, and a fan favorite here. 8-8 in 2015. Made the super bowl last season, but had the largest collapse in Super Bowl history. This season he has the same stacked roster as last season with the reigning MVP QB. They are 3-3. They barely beat the Lions with a 10 second run off. They had a 17 point lead at half time against the Dolphins and lost 20-17.

In that 3 year span, who's done more with less? How about Sean Peyton, another fan favorite here.

nyjunc · October 25, 2017

14 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

First off, I'd like to commend you on the length of this post. If more people did this, the world would be a better place.

Second, you're being too generous with regard to 2015. The things you're skipping are the freak luck events and especially injury reports. Now of course we play the players we have available and so does the other team. But it goes without saying that it's easier to compete against a team that is missing certain key starters (e.g. Cowboys without Romo), and teams that are missing multiple starters, where the backups aren't just a tiny downgrade. Otherwise we might as well say it was inexcusable for the Jets not to repeat 1998's success in 1999.

4 of our illustrious 10 wins came vs these "harder" matchups:

vs Indy:

Luck clearly was a shell of himself physically. Hilton's knee was injured and, while he did play, he couldn't get any separation. Even still, with the game close in the 3rd Q, and Indy driving, on the 1 yard line an untouched Gore just inexplicably coughs up the ball, and bounced right to Revis. Two of their top 3 corners missed the entire game, leaving just Vontae Davis...who then got injured, left the game before halftime, and didn't return. Mathis also was only on the field for like a dozen snaps.

vs Washington:

A half dozen key starters missed the entire game outright: LT Trent Williams, C Lichtensteiger, TE Jordan Reed, WR DeSean Jackson, CB DeAngelo Hall, CB Chris Culliver. To say the team we faced was a playoff team is taking the term to its literal absurdity.

vs Houston:

They grabbed (3rd string? 4th string?) T.J. Yates off the street because every other QB on the roster was injured. Kareem Jackson also missed the game.

vs NE (2nd matchup)

Injuries, DNP: 2 starting safeties Chung & McCourty (we know the Jets think this is a big deal); 2 starting WRs Edelman & Amendola; starting RB Blount; and starting LT Solder also missed both our matchups.

On the flip side, we played a good game vs a healthy NE team in our first matchup and got ref-robbed. Can't remember what it was offhand now, but I want to there was a laughable, uncalled DPI on a TD pass to Cumberland, and something else.

I don't always bring up injuries b/c we all have players missing but you are right and you forgot week 17 at Buffalo. I think McCoy missed that game and others.

11 hours ago, RESNewYork said:

Nice post. Replying feels like homework.

So your notes of 2015. Your opinion of the victories is we beat bad teams. We also beat the Pats because the coach made bad decisions which means you're saying Bowles out coached Belly that game. Are you saying we should have went 13-3. We were 4-12 the previous season.

Your notes on 2nd half timeouts. You realize there are moments when you should use a time out. For example, maybe you're in the red zone and the play call doesn't look good against the defense the QB is looking at. Is it ok to call a time out then? Is the use of a 2nd half time out always the fault of the coach? Didn't belly use a time out in the 2nd half of our game? Is this data you compiled show the Jets have a propensity to use 2nd half time outs? As far as clock management, you can google any coach and you get results of how said NFL coach made a clock management mistake

I don't necessarily think I'm using the roster as an excuse. But you have to admit you can only take the talent, or the lack of talent so far, no matter who the coach is.

You're right, 2016 had higher expectations but those players fell of the cliff and there is no way you can win with the QB play we got from Fitz. Again, those players we cut are no longer in the NFL or playing.

We can go back and forth about 2017 but it's not even half over yet.

I appreciate your opinion as to why Bowles should be fired. I believe strongly Mac and Bowles should not be fired. I barely post here, that's how strongly I believe that. My opinion, he's the best coach we've had since parcells. Simply put, feel he does more with less. Our opinions of the rosters he's worked with differ. There is thread after thread of the importance of getting a QB, fans rooting for losses to get Darnold, and the starting QBs for Bowles has been Fitz, Geno, Petty, McCown. Hopefully Mac with the cap and the draft, we see an influx of young talent.

At the end of the season, if they do fire Bowles, they better have a damn plan in place. History shows just because you hire a new coach doesn't mean improved coaching. And they better have contracts for Mac and this new coach that line up. No more fire one that has to work with another.

On a side note. Now that the Giants are 1-6, the media is now reporting, Macadoo is losing the locker room, coaches have bad strategy, the players are undisciplined and are giving up. Dont you think it's just lazy reporting and a false narrative to get readers?

And another side note. Since we are playing the Falcons, Dan Quinn was hired the same year as Bowles. Great coach right, and a fan favorite here. 8-8 in 2015. Made the super bowl last season, but had the largest collapse in Super Bowl history. This season he has the same stacked roster as last season with the reigning MVP QB. They are 3-3. They barely beat the Lions with a 10 second run off. They had a 17 point lead at half time against the Dolphins and lost 20-17.

In that 3 year span, who's done more with less? How about Sean Peyton, another fan favorite here.

debates like that can be fun but time consuming I do appreciate your posting style even though we disagree.

I think Bowles overall did a good job in 2015 but we did take advantage of a weak sched. Now good teams do take advantage of breaks and that was a break. The problem I have is we had a win and in game in week 17 against rex and a team that was banged up and playing for nothing and our team didn't show up until it was too late so I look at 2015 very differently than I would have if they had been able to pull that game off. We got swept by a mediocre Buf team coached by Rex and if we win one of those 2 games we make the playoffs.

there are times maybe you have to use a TO early in the 2nd half, most of those examples were frivolously used.

coaches don't go far w/o talent but the coach's job is to get the most out of that talent. Did he do that year 1? I would say no, did he do that year 2? also a no. Is he doing it this year? quite possibly but we'll see.

I really hate firing coaches and GMs, I'm not usually one of those guys. ask the folks that know me from a long time ago how I always defended Herm, Rex, etc... but those guys did things here. In 3 years Bowles hasn't done anything so I'm frustrated. I came into this season w/ no expectations, I just wanted this team to compete and see Bowles have them ready to play and improve his in game mgmt. That has probably happened but once you are 3-2 and have a chance to beat NE then throw away a Miami game my expectations have changed. I like Bowles, I love the calm under pressure but that usually translates to a team that is calm under pressure and blowing double digit leads 3 of 4 weeks doesn't show that. That is an alarming trend and reminds me of the Coslet days.

Mike Tannenbaum was not a great GM but he was a good one, the biggest mistake we made was buckling to fan pressure to fire someone after 2012. then we paired Rex w/ Idzik and Idzik spent 2 years trying to fire Rex then got himself fired too. as of now I don't think Bowles will get fired but if his teams keep blowing leads that could change. How many coaches in the last 20 years have missed the playoffs their first 3 years then went on to have success w/ that team? it's pretty rare, I think only the Texas teams have done it w/ Garrett and Kubiak.

when expectations aren't met the fans and media will usually seek scapegoats and it usually starts w/ the HC and QB, maybe the OC and GM. That's the way things go. Eli has not been good for many years, he held back a team capable of going a long way last year and they expected to make a run w/ him. that was foolish on their part. there are many factors why they suck, the HC is just one of them. There are many reasons why we are 3-4, the HC is one of them.

Dan Quinn has done more, his team collapsed and that sucks but as painful as it was for them I'd rather lose in the SB than lose in week 17 at Buffalo. Right now they have the SB losing hangover but long term they will be fine. He's done a much better job than Bowles.

I don't like Sean Payton, he has a SB and that's great but has done very little since and wasted the Brees years. w/ that said I'd take his record b/c it includes a SB but he's been an overrated coach for a long time.

RESNewYork · October 25, 2017

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

I don't always bring up injuries b/c we all have players missing but you are right and you forgot week 17 at Buffalo. I think McCoy missed that game and others.

debates like that can be fun but time consuming I do appreciate your posting style even though we disagree.

I think Bowles overall did a good job in 2015 but we did take advantage of a weak sched. Now good teams do take advantage of breaks and that was a break. The problem I have is we had a win and in game in week 17 against rex and a team that was banged up and playing for nothing and our team didn't show up until it was too late so I look at 2015 very differently than I would have if they had been able to pull that game off. We got swept by a mediocre Buf team coached by Rex and if we win one of those 2 games we make the playoffs.

there are times maybe you have to use a TO early in the 2nd half, most of those examples were frivolously used.

coaches don't go far w/o talent but the coach's job is to get the most out of that talent. Did he do that year 1? I would say no, did he do that year 2? also a no. Is he doing it this year? quite possibly but we'll see.

I really hate firing coaches and GMs, I'm not usually one of those guys. ask the folks that know me from a long time ago how I always defended Herm, Rex, etc... but those guys did things here. In 3 years Bowles hasn't done anything so I'm frustrated. I came into this season w/ no expectations, I just wanted this team to compete and see Bowles have them ready to play and improve his in game mgmt. That has probably happened but once you are 3-2 and have a chance to beat NE then throw away a Miami game my expectations have changed. I like Bowles, I love the calm under pressure but that usually translates to a team that is calm under pressure and blowing double digit leads 3 of 4 weeks doesn't show that. That is an alarming trend and reminds me of the Coslet days.

Mike Tannenbaum was not a great GM but he was a good one, the biggest mistake we made was buckling to fan pressure to fire someone after 2012. then we paired Rex w/ Idzik and Idzik spent 2 years trying to fire Rex then got himself fired too. as of now I don't think Bowles will get fired but if his teams keep blowing leads that could change. How many coaches in the last 20 years have missed the playoffs their first 3 years then went on to have success w/ that team? it's pretty rare, I think only the Texas teams have done it w/ Garrett and Kubiak.

when expectations aren't met the fans and media will usually seek scapegoats and it usually starts w/ the HC and QB, maybe the OC and GM. That's the way things go. Eli has not been good for many years, he held back a team capable of going a long way last year and they expected to make a run w/ him. that was foolish on their part. there are many factors why they suck, the HC is just one of them. There are many reasons why we are 3-4, the HC is one of them.

Dan Quinn has done more, his team collapsed and that sucks but as painful as it was for them I'd rather lose in the SB than lose in week 17 at Buffalo. Right now they have the SB losing hangover but long term they will be fine. He's done a much better job than Bowles.

I don't like Sean Payton, he has a SB and that's great but has done very little since and wasted the Brees years. w/ that said I'd take his record b/c it includes a SB but he's been an overrated coach for a long time.

Yeah I mentioned Quinn because we just blew a lead against the dolphins as an example because it's one thing to blow a lead in week 7 then to have the most epic blown lead in Super Bowl history. My impression is fans rip Bowles, some legitimate, my opinion, they're mostly made up, but if a coach on another team is guilty of the same, that other coach gets an excuse. Is someone like Quinn the better coach, maybe, but you can't deny the talent difference between the 2 teams. This is probably the week the Falcons right the ship. I don't see how this game is going to be close.

Bottom line the difference of opinion we have is the talent level on the roster. As far as Mac and Bowles moving forward I go back to Woody's interview in May. I thought the quotes were really interesting because they were insightful. Mac and Bowles don't give the media anything. But look at some of things Woody said and it seems to shed some light into what the organization is thinking and trying to do.

From Woody

"Really, the way I want to be judged this year, hopefully, from the fans' standpoint is just watch how we improve during the year,"

"Exactly," Johnson said. "If you want to go to the promised land, you've got to go in a certain direction. I think this a direction that we've never tried in 17 years that I've been involved with the Jets. We've never gone this way -- build through the draft, build through young free agents that a lot of guys don't even pay attention to."

"Don't use the word patient," he said. "They're not patient. I think judge it by progress. So pay close attention to what's going on. "We've tried various things over the years that I've been involved with the New York Jets, and what we haven't done is really concentrate on younger players, and making sure the coaching staff is capable of teaching those players and getting them better."

"Because we've tried a lot of different things, and we've got to find a quarterback," he said. "That's a goal. I think what we've done over the years is traded picks away, and we've gone and we've had too big of an emphasis on free agency -- and not enough emphasis on developing our own. I think you're better off with a home-grown guy."

Johnson referred to the Jets' 2015 season as "lightning in a bottle" and said, "It wasn't something you could duplicate. You couldn't make that happen again."

"If you want to have something that you can rely on year after year, you've got to get your guys, and get them from the draft," Johnson said.

My impression. Mac comes in 2015 and has a cap floor that needs to be spent. The Jets spend it and go 10-6. 2016 they try to build on that success and it fails.

Woody keeps mentioning how the Jets for 17 seasons have traded picks and tried to build through free agency and it took the 2016 season to realize what a mistake this is. Mac/Bowles has only been here for 2 1/2 seasons of those seasons. Is it a coincidence that Mac had this set up where we would have a ton of cap space for 2018? That he signed contracts that were not going to hurt the Jets long term. It almost feels like Woody is admitting he has to change the way the Jets build a team. Like he needed convincing.

Woody is admitting the roster was bad in 2016 and bad in 2017. To judge this season on progress, not wins and losses. Sounds like Woody is expecting a bad season because of the roster but wants to see these players improve.

Lastly, Woody says we've got to find a QB. This article was in May. The QBs on the roster were Hack, Petty, and McCown. Sounds to me at that point, they don't view any of these QBs as the future for the Jets with a maybe attached Hack. Since he was the one who got first team reps in the pre-season, but being third on the chart, he's obviously not there yet.

nyjunc · October 25, 2017

1 hour ago, RESNewYork said:

Yeah I mentioned Quinn because we just blew a lead against the dolphins as an example because it's one thing to blow a lead in week 7 then to have the most epic blown lead in Super Bowl history. My impression is fans rip Bowles, some legitimate, my opinion, they're mostly made up, but if a coach on another team is guilty of the same, that other coach gets an excuse. Is someone like Quinn the better coach, maybe, but you can't deny the talent difference between the 2 teams. This is probably the week the Falcons right the ship. I don't see how this game is going to be close.

Bottom line the difference of opinion we have is the talent level on the roster. As far as Mac and Bowles moving forward I go back to Woody's interview in May. I thought the quotes were really interesting because they were insightful. Mac and Bowles don't give the media anything. But look at some of things Woody said and it seems to shed some light into what the organization is thinking and trying to do.

From Woody

"Really, the way I want to be judged this year, hopefully, from the fans' standpoint is just watch how we improve during the year,"

"Exactly," Johnson said. "If you want to go to the promised land, you've got to go in a certain direction. I think this a direction that we've never tried in 17 years that I've been involved with the Jets. We've never gone this way -- build through the draft, build through young free agents that a lot of guys don't even pay attention to."

"Don't use the word patient," he said. "They're not patient. I think judge it by progress. So pay close attention to what's going on. "We've tried various things over the years that I've been involved with the New York Jets, and what we haven't done is really concentrate on younger players, and making sure the coaching staff is capable of teaching those players and getting them better."

"Because we've tried a lot of different things, and we've got to find a quarterback," he said. "That's a goal. I think what we've done over the years is traded picks away, and we've gone and we've had too big of an emphasis on free agency -- and not enough emphasis on developing our own. I think you're better off with a home-grown guy."

Johnson referred to the Jets' 2015 season as "lightning in a bottle" and said, "It wasn't something you could duplicate. You couldn't make that happen again."

"If you want to have something that you can rely on year after year, you've got to get your guys, and get them from the draft," Johnson said.

My impression. Mac comes in 2015 and has a cap floor that needs to be spent. The Jets spend it and go 10-6. 2016 they try to build on that success and it fails.

Woody keeps mentioning how the Jets for 17 seasons have traded picks and tried to build through free agency and it took the 2016 season to realize what a mistake this is. Mac/Bowles has only been here for 2 1/2 seasons of those seasons. Is it a coincidence that Mac had this set up where we would have a ton of cap space for 2018? That he signed contracts that were not going to hurt the Jets long term. It almost feels like Woody is admitting he has to change the way the Jets build a team. Like he needed convincing.

Woody is admitting the roster was bad in 2016 and bad in 2017. To judge this season on progress, not wins and losses. Sounds like Woody is expecting a bad season because of the roster but wants to see these players improve.

Lastly, Woody says we've got to find a QB. This article was in May. The QBs on the roster were Hack, Petty, and McCown. Sounds to me at that point, they don't view any of these QBs as the future for the Jets with a maybe attached Hack. Since he was the one who got first team reps in the pre-season, but being third on the chart, he's obviously not there yet.

Sure we'd all be pissed blowing a SB lead(and I imagine if we ever make a SB that's exactly how we'd lose) but they got there. That was a total meltdown but also against the greatest QB in the history of the game. we had a meltdown against Matt Moore. obviously Atlanta has more talent but he got that talent to play up, He got Matt Ryan to have his best season ever and play big in big spots for the first time in his career. There wasn't a huge in difference in talent, outside of QB, btw the 2015 Jets and the 2016 Falcons. One couldn't beat anyone but bad teams and missed the playoffs despite a creampuff sched and the other held a 28-3 lead in the Super Bowl.

I get what Woody said and it is what I was saying but things change fast in this league. Woody also told Eric Mangini he was safe if they got Favre, things change fast. Bowles did a great job to start the season but once we had a chance he reverted back to normal. That's not a good sign. Think about it this way- when we didn't have high expectations going into 2015 he didn't have a ton of pressure and we did well, when we had pressure week 17 he and the team melted. 2016 we had the pressure of high expectations and he and the team melted. This year the lowest expectations we have ever had and they surprised, w/ a chance to do something they start losing again. is that the type of coach we want long term?

RESNewYork · October 25, 2017

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Sure we'd all be pissed blowing a SB lead(and I imagine if we ever make a SB that's exactly how we'd lose) but they got there. That was a total meltdown but also against the greatest QB in the history of the game. we had a meltdown against Matt Moore. obviously Atlanta has more talent but he got that talent to play up, He got Matt Ryan to have his best season ever and play big in big spots for the first time in his career. There wasn't a huge in difference in talent, outside of QB, btw the 2015 Jets and the 2016 Falcons. One couldn't beat anyone but bad teams and missed the playoffs despite a creampuff sched and the other held a 28-3 lead in the Super Bowl.

I get what Woody said and it is what I was saying but things change fast in this league. Woody also told Eric Mangini he was safe if they got Favre, things change fast. Bowles did a great job to start the season but once we had a chance he reverted back to normal. That's not a good sign. Think about it this way- when we didn't have high expectations going into 2015 he didn't have a ton of pressure and we did well, when we had pressure week 17 he and the team melted. 2016 we had the pressure of high expectations and he and the team melted. This year the lowest expectations we have ever had and they surprised, w/ a chance to do something they start losing again. is that the type of coach we want long term?

Yes. We disagree. Not going to change. Which is cool

But don't you find the quotes interesting as a fan?

Overall impression. Woody seems to have his fingerprints on 2015 and 2016. Woody realizes it was a mistake. Mac planned for the mistake. Now they are trying to do a rebuild through draft and young free agents. Also, as of now, the Jets don't believe they have their QB. I saw the article back in May but reading it again gives a lot of insight to what they're thinking.

#27TheDominator · October 25, 2017

1 minute ago, RESNewYork said:

Yes. We disagree. Not going to change. Which is cool

But don't you find the quotes interesting as a fan?

Overall impression. Woody seems to have his fingerprints on 2015 and 2016. Woody realizes it was a mistake. Mac planned for the mistake. Now they are trying to do a rebuild through draft and young free agents. Also, as of now, the Jets don't believe they have their QB. I saw the article back in May but reading it again gives a lot of insight to what they're thinking.

How? By piling up dead money?

RESNewYork · October 25, 2017

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

How? By piling up dead money?

signing contracts that the Jets can get out of that did not mortgage the future as evidenced by the large salary cap we have for 2018

#27TheDominator · October 25, 2017

6 minutes ago, RESNewYork said:

signing contracts that the Jets can get out of that did not mortgage the future as evidenced by the large salary cap we have for 2018

I have news for you: He mortgaged the future. When he signed those deals 2017 was in the future and this team is unable to compete because of the contracts he signed and the decisions he made.

RESNewYork · October 25, 2017

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

I have news for you: He mortgaged the future. When he signed those deals 2017 was in the future and this team is unable to compete because of the contracts he signed and the decisions he made.

True but from what Woody said, it looks like he had a hand in that.