JustInFudge Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 23 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said: I have said it time and time again. If you hire an inexperienced HC you must give him abt least 5 years to see what he has. Mangini was fired to soon for example. Rex was fired after the Jets gutted the team and had Smith as the starting QB. You can’t fire Bowles when you have given him Fitz and McCown as starting QBs. This isn’t 1959; you can’t win with the worst starting QBs in the entire NFL, which Fitzpatrick was last year and McCown, while functional, has been a losing QB for his entire career. This isnt 2009 or 2010 poor QB play can not be overcome by the defense. The rules just don’t favor that strategy anymore. The one exception in the last few years was Denver and they are the exception that proves the rule. Bowles might end up being the Mr. Potato Head HC that so many out here claim he is but you can’t say that based on having QBs like Fitz and McCown under Center. He begged for Fitz back. You don’t think he lobbied for McCown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Joe NamathVerified account @RealJoeNamath 22h22 hours ago More Very very very disappointing outcome. Poor play combined with stupidity. Awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brown Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: Please provide a single thing that has happened since January 1, 2009 that would support that statement that "Mangini was fired too soon." Rex got his 5 years. I will continue to admit that I liked Ryan, but he certainly deserved to go and did us the solitary favor of taking Idzik with him, which I am not sure was the plan. What rules have changed since 2009 and 2010 that causes defenses to be unable to win? Those changes happened long before. You are basically saying that once you sign Fitzpatrick and McCown you cannot fire the coach. That's pretty harsh. They were able to get a pretty good year out of Fitzpatrick. Why couldn't they do it again? Look I didn’t like Mangini but the Jets shouldn’t have fired him after they forced him to take Farve and told him don’t worry we won’t hold it against you and then they did!!! I wanted Rex gone but you cannot not hold him responsible for that last year IMO. The Jets stunk as far as talent goes he went 8-8 which I think was a better coaching job then in 2009 and 2010. A record alone doesn’t tell you how well a coach is coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 21 minutes ago, RESNewYork said: Not exactly sure what you're trying to say. Are you asking who is responsible for developing the young QB's? I would assume QB coach Bates since that is his history. What is so hard? The chain of events began with Bowles to suit Bowles. If we had a different HC, or possibly one with an O background, the QB situation would've taken a different path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Josh McCown is Ryan Fitzpatrick II Mike Maccagnan and Todd Bowles just don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brown Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 12 minutes ago, gEYno said: All you need to know is that every time something doesn't go well, it's Bowles's fault. Every time something does go well, it's because of someone else. Thank you...... Folks don’t see this and this is obvious. For example, Morton has gone a good job with the offense but Bowles is holding him back by being conservative. Oh but Bowles went for it; why!!!! Or Bowles is too conservative and just reckless at the same time, a bad coach, when things go poorly, but lucky if they go well. Cant make it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, JiF said: He begged for Fitz back. You don’t think he lobbied for McCown? I'd say yes. Fitz/Mccown both self starters, respected by their teammates etc. Its a kick the can down the road type of move and takes Bowles off the hook for having to develop the QB. I understand why this happens, but some urgency from Bowles with regards to finding the franchise guy would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RESNewYork Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 1 minute ago, jetrider said: What is so hard? The chain of events began with Bowles. If we had a different HC, or possibly one with an O background, the QB situation would've taken a different path. Why is that? Oh I get it, the Bowles is the GM argument. For what it's worth, Macadoo was an offensive coordinator who became a head coach. Last season the Giants made the playoffs with a dominant defense and an sputtering offense. This season before the injuries, the offense struggled mightily as well with Eli and Beckham, etc. Just because your HC has a background in offense does not guarantee an offensive productive team. I know that's another popular theory on this board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said: Look I didn’t like Mangini but the Jets shouldn’t have fired him after they forced him to take Farve and told him don’t worry we won’t hold it against you and then they did!!! I wanted Rex gone but you cannot not hold him responsible for that last year IMO. The Jets stunk as far as talent goes he went 8-8 which I think was a better coaching job then in 2009 and 2010. A record alone doesn’t tell you how well a coach is coaching. They went 8-8 in 2013. Rex got fired after going 4-12. They had no CBs or WRs and I think the roster was the cause of the record, but that does not mean that he deserved to stay. The team got worse each year, there didn't seem to be a light at the end of the tunnel and you don't get to stay if you don't work well with the people that pay your checks and put together your team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDL_JET Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, Beerfish said: Yes primer positions in which you almost always need to spend a high draft pick. so QB, LT, pass rusher are must high round picks, CB you can get lucky lower down. by that time some of the guys you drafted before are getting ready to look for big dollars. Qb is of course by far the biggest need. If you get a really good QB he can cover up a lot of ills on your team for year. Isn't that how every team works with building a roster? And if they're looking for big dollars, Mac must be doing something right. Or what your'e saying is that he should have hit on the majority of his picks, so the roster would be nicely filled out by now? Because that sounds like 2-3 years to me, and that's not so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 22 minutes ago, gEYno said: I know you think you just proved something. But, that's not even the definition of superb. It's an understatement. You like to ignore the obvious and argue for the sake of arguing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 31 minutes ago, RESNewYork said: Yes he did. Here were his options. Geno, Fitz, Hack, Petty. They were? How would he know that if he wasn't making personnel decisions? I mean, this was as soon as the last season had been over, they could have drafted someone, traded for someone, signed someone... I mean come on, even the most ardent Mac hater/Bowles defender must say its very odd to be a HC and name a starting QB who is a free agent, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 We need billboards and banners BOWLES-MACC-MCCOWN MUST GO!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brown Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: They went 8-8 in 2013. Rex got fired after going 4-12. They had no CBs or WRs and I think the roster was the cause of the record, but that does not mean that he deserved to stay. The team got worse each year, there didn't seem to be a light at the end of the tunnel and you don't get to stay if you don't work well with the people that pay your checks and put together your team. Again I will say it I thought that Rex had overstayed his welcome but I just don’t believe he was supported by management. At the end we knew what we had in Rex; I’m not so sure we know about Bowles yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoot-Face Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I thought this was going to be 8 pages of hot debate on the removal of a racially insensitive idol. Imagine my disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Charlie Brown said: I’m not so sure we know about Bowles yet. Im quite sure Todd Bowles isn't the answer here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, RESNewYork said: Why is that? Oh I get it, the Bowles is the GM argument. For what it's worth, Macadoo was an offensive coordinator who became a head coach. Last season the Giants made the playoffs with a dominant defense and an sputtering offense. This season before the injuries, the offense struggled mightily as well with Eli and Beckham, etc. Just because your HC has a background in offense does not guarantee an offensive productive team. I know that's another popular theory on this board You missed the point and went off on a wild tangent. The moves were made to accommodate Bowles. A different HC would have different needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RESNewYork Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Just now, NoBowles said: They were? How would he know that if he wasn't making personnel decisions? I mean, this was as soon as the last season had been over, they could have drafted someone, traded for someone, signed someone... I mean come on, even the most ardent Mac hater/Bowles defender must say its very odd to be a HC and name a starting QB who is a free agent, no? Yes. Bowles said if Fitz was signed he would be the starter. The QBs on the roster were Geno, Hack, Petty. Dont remember was there another QB they were going to sign or bring in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 9 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said: Thank you...... Folks don’t see this and this is obvious. For example, Morton has gone a good job with the offense but Bowles is holding him back by being conservative. Oh but Bowles went for it; why!!!! Or Bowles is too conservative and just reckless at the same time, a bad coach, when things go poorly, but lucky if they go well. Cant make it up I am not a Bowles fan, but I give him some credit for hiring what looks to be a competent OC. I also give him credit for having his team playing hard, unlike the Browns. That said, he has had 3 years of getting his personnel choices on the defensive side of the ball, while largely ignoring the offense. I find it tough to swallow that the defense is not better than it is, and IMO, it does not bode well for him as a HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Just now, NoBowles said: I am not a Bowles fan, but I give him some credit for hiring what looks to be a competent OC. I also give him credit for having his team playing hard, unlike the Browns. That said, he has had 3 years of getting his personnel choices on the defensive side of the ball, while largely ignoring the offense. I find it tough to swallow that the defense is not better than it is, and IMO, it does not bode well for him as a HC. A competent OC doesn't call the play he did with 47 seconds left in the game yesterday,epsecially when Josh McCown is your QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Just now, RESNewYork said: Yes. Bowles said if Fitz was signed he would be the starter. The QBs on the roster were Geno, Hack, Petty. Dont remember was there another QB they were going to sign or bring in? Well, there were rumors that they tried to trade for Glennon, and there were a few FA's available as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Just now, joewilly12 said: A competent OC doesn't call the play he did with 47 seconds left in the game yesterday,epsecially when Josh McCown is your QB. Joe, I have lost count, how long has it been since we won the SB? Is it 47 years, or is it 47 seconds left on the clock? The number 47 is a confusing number to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brown Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 20 minutes ago, JiF said: He begged for Fitz back. You don’t think he lobbied for McCown? I have no idea, but if Bowles thought that these were the best QBs to lobby for despite potential viable options either in the draft or free agency, then I would fire him personally and Mac with him for going along with that plan!! However no such proof exists other than speculation on a message board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Just now, NoBowles said: Joe, I have lost count, how long has it been since we won the SB? Is it 47 years, or is it 47 seconds left on the clock? The number 47 is a confusing number to me. Well if you count this season it will be 48 years, yesterday was 47 seconds when McCown threw the INT... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said: I thought this was going to be 8 pages of hot debate on the removal of a racially insensitive idol. Imagine my disappointment. Nat Sherman has a good business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Just now, joewilly12 said: Well if you count this season it will be 48 years, yesterday was 47 seconds when McCown threw the INT... Crap, 48 years is just too damn long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, NoBowles said: I am not a Bowles fan, but I give him some credit for hiring what looks to be a competent OC. I also give him credit for having his team playing hard, unlike the Browns. That said, he has had 3 years of getting his personnel choices on the defensive side of the ball, while largely ignoring the offense. I find it tough to swallow that the defense is not better than it is, and IMO, it does not bode well for him as a HC. ^ Not mod material Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 1 minute ago, NoBowles said: Crap, 48 years is just too damn long Crap for 48 years agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RESNewYork Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, jetrider said: You missed the point and went off on a wild tangent. The moves were made to accommodate Bowles. A different HC would have different needs. 1 minute ago, NoBowles said: Well, there were rumors that they tried to trade for Glennon, and there were a few FA's available as well. OK there is nothing really to say if you believe Bowles is the pseudo GM. I would think going from 4-12 to 10-6 was the reason why Fitz was re-signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, RESNewYork said: OK there is nothing really to say if you believe Bowles is the pseudo GM. I would think going from 4-12 to 10-6 was the reason why Fitz was re-signed. I don't believe he is the pseudo GM, I believe he is making major personnel decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 6 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: Crap for 48 years agree. We need to do better, this is unacceptable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, RESNewYork said: OK there is nothing really to say if you believe Bowles is the pseudo GM. I would think going from 4-12 to 10-6 was the reason why Fitz was re-signed. I don't know who to blame, but re-signing Fitzpatrick wasn't the problem. Giving him $12M and letting him hold the team up for months was the problem. I say I don't know who to blame, I blame everyone. My wife wants to know why I am yelling. "Don't blame me" she says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Just now, #27TheDominator said: I don't know who to blame, but re-signing Fitzpatrick wasn't the problem. Giving him $12M and letting him hold the team up for months was the problem. I say I don't know who to blame, I blame everyone. My wife wants to know why I am yelling. "Don't blame me" she says. Ryan Fitzpatrick and Josh McCown are NFL bottom feeder QB's yet the Jets think they have outsmarted 31 other NFL teams by signing these guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 31 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: Josh McCown is Ryan Fitzpatrick II Mike Maccagnan and Todd Bowles just don't get it. Of course they get it. McCown is worse than Fitzpatrick. That's why he was so cheap and available. 20 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: We need billboards and banners BOWLES-MACC MUST GO!!!!!!!!! You are out of your mind. In the big picture, Maccagnan is doing a good job, the team is on track, it's a rebuild and he is adding some decent pieces on the roster and the coaching staff. What worries me is Bowles. He isn't learning, he isn't growing. Two devastating, game-losing TD's at the end of two halves because he thinks Josh McCown is Peyton Manning is ridiculous. SAR I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RESNewYork Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, NoBowles said: I don't believe he is the pseudo GM, I believe he is making major personnel decisions. not sure what the difference is but OK. Most of the arguments on here stem from the roster. If you and others believe that is because of Bowles than what am I debating for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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