The cigar store Indian has got to go!

[Jetster]

26 minutes ago, section314 said:

Good post. I actually feel that Morton will be the new HC, and Bates the OC if/when Bowles is shown the door.

From your lips to gods ears. It blows my mind that we have a defensive head coach & a bottom 4 defense in a league of 32 teams. Look at the Bears defense in Fox 3rd year. Look at the Vikings defense under Zimmer. I don't even get Bowles persona on the sideline? Is it supposed to keep the team on an even keel because it literally has zero effect on his defense, they sh*t the bed every time they are under duress in a momentum swing. Sure McCown effed up before halftime last week but that doesn't mean the defense automatically gives up a 70 yard drive for a TD. Same as yesterday, momentum shift, Miami within 7, short punt, 50 yard line, OK, hold them to a f*cking FG for once! Nope, 4 plays! TD! Their 2 best WRs WIDE OPEN? OMG, can you take something away please?

So freaking frustrating! 

[NoBowles]

21 minutes ago, jetrider said:

I wouldn't. If Macc gave Bowles what he wanted and Bowles couldn't make it work, it's on Bowles not Macc.

Macc deserves a fair chance to either succeed or blow it with his own decisions.

Ideally, I'd love to see Bowles become a great HC and win a Jets SB.

His job isn't easy and there's gotta be a steep learning curve for a HC. Belichick and Carroll had growing pains early on. 

I'd blame Macc for, if anything, not forcing his vision more and trusting Bowles too much. 

I'd love to see both Bowles and Mac be great and win a Jets SB too.

What I just don't know is how much power/say Mac has, and what is really going on behind the scenes. It will be somewhat telling if they fire one without firing the other, that one of them seemed to have more say/power than the other, but even with that, the Jets seem to do things more because fans/media wants them to, than it being the right thing.

 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, NoBowles said:

I'd love to see both Bowles and Mac be great and win a Jets SB too.

What I just don't know is how much power/say Mac has, and what is really going on behind the scenes. It will be somewhat telling if they fire one without firing the other, that one of them seemed to have more say/power than the other, but even with that, the Jets seem to do things more because fans/media wants them to, than it being the right thing.

 

That has been true. Until this year.  Bowles and MAcc would have been out the door if that was true now

[jetrider]

11 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Everything you believe is inference based on nothing.  The fact that they were hired as equals doesn't mean that Bowles is actually the GM, and does the GM's responsibilities any more than it means Mac calls the plays.  An organization can have two people at the same level who still do their own jobs.  It actually happens a lot.  Like, in most big companies.  The GM's job is to "buy the groceries" so to speak.  As I've already stated, even if he's buying what Bowles wants, he needs to step in and say, I'll get you this type of player, but not this specific player, because he's not the right value here.

Ultimately, you argument is predicated on the fact that Macc is irrelevant.  What is his job, to write whatever name Bowles suggests on a card?  If so, why defend a guy who literally serves no purpose on the team?

My response re: Bowles being on the phone was within a certain context.  Specifically, I was told that because Bowles was on the phone with Lee, he was happy, but if it were Lynch, he wouldn't be on the phone.  Then, I suggested that he wasn't on the phone for Hack.  So, does that tell us anything.  I literally said that you can't infer by who's talking on the phone anything about who necessarily made the final call.  Surely, it isn't my fault if you couldn't understand that, or were too lazy to actually read the entire exchange.

You mean budget-wise. The HC should decide who specifically fits his system talent-wise. The GM would know who's affordable or not. Both would judge a player's character.

Yes, Macc is a less relevant GM than other GMs because of reduced power, plus he never GM'd before. He serves a purpose but don't expect too much from him given the role he has.

Belichick doesn't have or want a GM, in fact, he left the Jets because he didn't want Parcells as a GM. He wanted absolute power.

[joewilly12]

17 minutes ago, rangerous said:

bowles biggest problem is that his defense is just not that good.  if the jet defense was shut down with all else being equal he'd be lauded as the second coming of lombardi

The defense is decent the offense sucks we need a QB until then we continue to argue fuss and fight. Nothing else matters.

[rangerous]

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

The defense is decent the offense sucks we need a QB until them we continue to argue fuss and fight. Nothing else matters.

they gave up 17 points in the 4th quarter.  okay so 3 of those came on mccown's int but what about the other 14?  it's not like the doltfins were gifted with any great field position.  i agree that the offense screwed the pooch ion the 4th quarter.  a few first first downs and the game might have been over.

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

The defense is decent the offense sucks we need a QB until then we continue to argue fuss and fight. Nothing else matters.

It's closer to the reverse, the O has been decent and the D sucks.

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, rangerous said:

they gave up 17 points in the 4th quarter.  okay so 3 of those came on mccown's int but what about the other 14?  it's not like the doltfins were gifted with any great field position.  i agree that the offense screwed the pooch ion the 4th quarter.  a few first first downs and the game might have been over.

Miami had excellent FP on the 2 TD drives but that doesn't mean we had to allow TDs. 

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, rangerous said:

they gave up 17 points in the 4th quarter.  okay so 3 of those came on mccown's int but what about the other 14?  it's not like the doltfins were gifted with any great field position.  i agree that the offense screwed the pooch ion the 4th quarter.  a few first first downs and the game might have been over.

 

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

It's closer to the reverse, the O has been decent and the D sucks.

No defense can be on the field all game and be successful. Josh McCown is terrible, nice guy but no team is getting any success with him at QB its quite obvious. 

[jetrider]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

Miami had excellent FP on the 2 TD drives but that doesn't mean we had to allow TDs. 

That was either a spectacular off-the-bench performance by Matt Moore or we made it too easy for him.

[Jetster]

40 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

And also making no adjustments and playing flat in the 2nd half of games. He needs work too.

Unlike the Jets, opposing defenses make adjustments at halftime. Morton doesn't have 1 dynamic player (Quincy getting hurt was big) as even though he wasn't a Super star, he's tough & can break tackles. Both the Pats game & yesterday, we have no GO TO offensive players. So it's not like Morton has much choice & he doesn't have a Brady back there, hell he doesn't even have a Dalton back there,lol. We have ZERO strong WRs without Quincy, we have ZERO power runners, Forte looks like he's in quicksand. I watched the Saints yesterday & Ingram is bowling guys over & Kamara looks like he's shot out of a cannon, then you watch the Jets it's like your TV went to black & white. Why McGuire didn't get more touches in the heat being fresh in the 2nd half , I have no idea? But, we all know, Bowles likes his veterans. He proves it for 2 years & 7 games.

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

 

No defense can be on the field all game and be successful. Josh McCown is terrible, nice guy but no team is getting any success with him at QB its quite obvious. 

all game? Miami had the ball less than 32 minutes, TOP was almost equal and our scored 28 points.  any halfway decent D should be able to beat that Miami team when their O scores 28.  McCown has played well overall, he made a big mistake yesterday. he is a journeyman for a reason, we shouldn't have franchise QB standards for him.  the D is loaded w/ talent and we have a supposed defensive guru leading us.  No excuse to blow another big lead.

3 minutes ago, jetrider said:

That was either a spectacular off-the-bench performance by Matt Moore or we made it too easy for him.

Moore hung ion there, we battered him early.  would have been easy for him to pack it in but he hung tough.  I tip my cap but there's no way we should have allowed him to do that.

[shevys]

2 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Thats dumb. And stupid. And totally in the range of this dumb fanbase.

**** off.

[Jetster]

8 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Miami had excellent FP on the 2 TD drives but that doesn't mean we had to allow TDs. 

Oh, but when the chips are down, the Kacey & Bo Bo shows ALWAYS give up TDs. FG kicker might as well not even warm up.

[shevys]

2 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

BTW, Paxton Lynch cant get past TREVOR SIMEAN!

Jets fans were INCENSED that they didn't draft him

Wrong. Just because you say it doesn't make it so. I never liked him, his pimp 'stache or his game. 

But go ahead, continue to make sweeping generalizations like you have for years. I guess the more you repeat yourself the more you believe it. 

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, Jetster said:

Oh, but when the chips are down, the Kacey & Bo Bo shows ALWAYS give up TDs. FG kicker might as well not even warm up.

That they do. 

 

 

[RESNewYork]

Going through this thread, this is recap of what posters are saying about Bowles.

Bowles is the HC but is only responsible for the defensive side of the ball.

Morton is responsible for the offense if the offense does well. When the offense does poorly, it was because of Bowles.

Bowles is also responsible for the GM duties. This poor roster and draft picks are because of Bowles.

 

Didn't see it mentioned yet but the defense helped the offense score 7 points by getting a takeaway and putting the offense at the goal line.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, RESNewYork said:

Going through this thread, this is recap of what posters are saying about Bowles.

Bowles is the HC but is only responsible for the defensive side of the ball.

Morton is responsible for the offense if the offense does well. When the offense does poorly, it was because of Bowles.

Bowles is also responsible for the GM duties. This poor roster and draft picks are because of Bowles.

 

Didn't see it mentioned yet but the defense helped the offense score 7 points by getting a takeaway and putting the offense at the goal line.

the bottom line is he is in charge of the team.  A team that has now gone 8-16 in their last 22 games. 

The D did set up a TD, great job after the O/STs set Miami up in horrible FP.  The D did their job and the O did their job by scoring a TD and not settling for a FG.  The O still scored 28 points and gave the D a 14 pt lead in the 4th against a mediocre offense.

[jetrider]

2 hours ago, gEYno said:

Yes - smart fans such as yourself know that when you're heading into the season with a Josh McCown at QB, it's a not a reflection on the GM that he passed on a QB playing at a high level for a strong safety who looks decent.

First it was Fitz (a 5-team retread).

Then McCown (a 9-team retread) signs a fully-guaranteed $6M deal a month before the draft is a reflection of a HC that had no intention of developing a QB or drafting a new one.

Bowles' plan (or whatever it is) does not revolve around a QB. Why don't you see that? 

[MDL_JET]

25 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Unlike the Jets, opposing defenses make adjustments at halftime. Morton doesn't have 1 dynamic player (Quincy getting hurt was big) as even though he wasn't a Super star, he's tough & can break tackles. Both the Pats game & yesterday, we have no GO TO offensive players. So it's not like Morton has much choice & he doesn't have a Brady back there, hell he doesn't even have a Dalton back there,lol. We have ZERO strong WRs without Quincy, we have ZERO power runners, Forte looks like he's in quicksand. I watched the Saints yesterday & Ingram is bowling guys over & Kamara looks like he's shot out of a cannon, then you watch the Jets it's like your TV went to black & white. Why McGuire didn't get more touches in the heat being fresh in the 2nd half , I have no idea? But, we all know, Bowles likes his veterans. He proves it for 2 years & 7 games.

Still doesn't excuse Morton and Bowles in the 2nd half. They did just fine in the first half with the same players. It's up to them to finish the game. 

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

If he is not good then you should not be wasting time on him running and perhaps ruining the team.  You look for a good coach, if this guy isn't good then don't waste time.

That's fine.  The point I'm making is that Macc needs to go with him.

[joewilly12]

Im so sick and tired of this..............

[ZachEY]

48 minutes ago, jetrider said:

You mean budget-wise. The HC should decide who specifically fits his system talent-wise. The GM would know who's affordable or not. Both would judge a player's character.

Yes, Macc is a less relevant GM than other GMs because of reduced power, plus he never GM'd before. He serves a purpose but don't expect too much from him given the role he has.

Belichick doesn't have or want a GM, in fact, he left the Jets because he didn't want Parcells as a GM. He wanted absolute power.

I mean draft-resource wise.  Not budget-wise.

Literally this board all killed Tannenbaum because he was not a personnel guy, but an accountant.  Now we hire a personnel guy and expect him only to deal with budgets?

[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, jetrider said:

First it was Fitz (a 5-team retread).

Then McCown (a 9-team retread) signs a fully-guaranteed $6M deal a month before the draft is a reflection of a HC that had no intention of developing a QB or drafting a new one.

Bowles' plan (or whatever it is) does not revolve around a QB. Why don't you see that? 

So, now it's Bowles who's offering contracts.  Honestly, if your argument is that Macc is nothing more than Quicken, than why don't we just have Quicken, and save a few dollars?

[Beerfish]

3 minutes ago, gEYno said:

That's fine.  The point I'm making is that Macc needs to go with him.

I am fine with that line of thinking.

[RESNewYork]

5 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

the bottom line is he is in charge of the team.  A team that has now gone 8-16 in their last 22 games. 

The D did set up a TD, great job after the O/STs set Miami up in horrible FP.  The D did their job and the O did their job by scoring a TD and not settling for a FG.  The O still scored 28 points and gave the D a 14 pt lead in the 4th against a mediocre offense.

I get it and yesterday did suck.

But is that record because of the coaches or in spite of it.

Pre-season ends, we start 0-2, Bowles is the perfect coach for the "tank". Why? Because he's the horrible coach we need with this horrible roster. What changed? 

It sucks we lost because we were up 28-14. Were we up 28-14 in spite of the coaching? Were the coaches good for 3 quarters and bad for the last?

[ZachEY]

28 minutes ago, shevys said:

Wrong. Just because you say it doesn't make it so. I never liked him, his pimp 'stache or his game. 

But go ahead, continue to make sweeping generalizations like you have for years. I guess the more you repeat yourself the more you believe it. 

True or not, the the thesis that Macc is not supposed to be any better at identifying talent than a bunch of dimwits on a Jets Message Board is about as dumb an idea as proposed here?  

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, RESNewYork said:

I get it and yesterday did suck.

But is that record because of the coaches or in spite of it.

Pre-season ends, we start 0-2, Bowles is the perfect coach for the "tank". Why? Because he's the horrible coach we need with this horrible roster. What changed? 

It sucks we lost because we were up 28-14. Were we up 28-14 in spite of the coaching? Were the coaches good for 3 quarters and bad for the last?

from what I have seen in 3 years I think it is b/c of the coaching staff and specifically the HC.  I really like the additions to the staff this year but the head man has done a poor job overall.  He's done a nice job rallying this team most expected to win 1-2 games but those expectations are in the past, now he had a chance to get us in the race and failed miserably.

It's a 4 qtr game, the only thing that matters is the end result. you can be good for 1 and bad for 3 as long as the 1 ends up w/ the win in the 4th.  being good for 2-3 and bad late is Bruce Coslet territory.

[bitonti]

17 minutes ago, RESNewYork said:

 

Didn't see it mentioned yet but the defense helped the offense score 7 points by getting a takeaway and putting the offense at the goal line.

 

yup and the final INT was basically a gift of 3 points that's a 10 point swing in a game they lost 31-28

[nyjunc]

6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

yup and the final INT was basically a gift of 3 points that's a 10 point swing in a game they lost 31-28

and what about the 14 point lead?  the IMT never happens if we had a D that could protect a 14 pt 4th qtr lead against a mediocre offense.

[jetrider]

6 minutes ago, gEYno said:

True or not, the the thesis that Macc is not supposed to be any better at identifying talent than a bunch of dimwits on a Jets Message Board is about as dumb an idea as proposed here?  

How do you know where Macc ranked Watson or how high or low he prioritized drafting another new QB?

You don't because Macc was too busy following Bowles' plan. That's problem #1.

[joewilly12]

Todd Bowles is clueless in every aspect of the game.  His decisions and failure to make adjustments are not good characteristic traits for a head coach. The guy looks lost game after game and listening to his press conferences makes matters worse. Time to say goodbye to this guy. 

[jetrider]

15 minutes ago, gEYno said:

So, now it's Bowles who's offering contracts.  Honestly, if your argument is that Macc is nothing more than Quicken, than why don't we just have Quicken, and save a few dollars?

Where did I say that?

[RESNewYork]

4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

from what I have seen in 3 years I think it is b/c of the coaching staff and specifically the HC.  I really like the additions to the staff this year but the head man has done a poor job overall.  He's done a nice job rallying this team most expected to win 1-2 games but those expectations are in the past, now he had a chance to get us in the race and failed miserably.

It's a 4 qtr game, the only thing that matters is the end result. you can be good for 1 and bad for 3 as long as the 1 ends up w/ the win in the 4th.  being good for 2-3 and bad late is Bruce Coslet territory.

Fair but argument can be made with this roster, team has to play perfect to compete. Before the season, this board only spoke of "tank". We have a god damn jet fan waving a Darnold Jet jersey.

So now expectations have changed because they team expectations were exceeded? Why is that? Because of the way they performed in previous games? 

The question I have is for the crowd that wants to fire Bowles, how many current NFL coaches would you be happy with? I can almost guarantee the one you choose has either a legitimate franchise QB, or has the same issues that we fault Bowles for. Who is the coach that is coming in?

I am Bowles supporter because he's been able to compete with poor rosters and even poorer options at the supposed most important position. His starting QBs for 2 1/2 seasons has been Fitz, Geno, Petty, and McCown. That is not easy.

[#27TheDominator]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

Whofans, this is a great question that only the greatest of minds could answer.  Unfortunately, I'm not that person.  The only hypothesis that I have is that similar to the Jets, some other teams in the league are not very good at Football with questionable and limited talent.  There are also teams in the league similar to the Jets with bad QB's.  The way the NFL schedule is formed, sometimes those teams meet in head to head competition.  And because only 2 teams are involved in this competition and they only play 1 game, one team has to win.  Often times, even though victoriouss, the outcome doesn't necessarily translate to meaning that things are good.

But again, this question is for someone much smarter than I.

 

I think you just described 2015.  Like you, our GM and coaching staff also deferred the question to those of greater intellect.