bitonti Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, nyjunc said: and what about the 14 point lead? the IMT never happens if we had a D that could protect a 14 pt 4th qtr lead against a mediocre offense. the flaws with the D are Mac problems. They don't have any edge rushers or enough CBs. Skrine is supposed to be a nickel. It's the same with the offense. Bowles can't bench Skrine or McCown cause there are no better options on the roster that Mac constructed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, RESNewYork said: I am Bowles supporter because he's been able to compete with poor rosters and even poorer options at the supposed most important position. His starting QBs for 2 1/2 seasons has been Fitz, Geno, Petty, and McCown. That is not easy. Fitz and McCown were because of Bowles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 6 minutes ago, RESNewYork said: The question I have is for the crowd that wants to fire Bowles, how many current NFL coaches would you be happy with? I can almost guarantee the one you choose has either a legitimate franchise QB, or has the same issues that we fault Bowles for. Who is the coach that is coming in? 1 follow up question after you fire Bowles, what coach with options would want this job? Right now they are calling the coach of the Rams the coach of the year cause he "salvaged" Jared Goff 1 overall pick. That could have happened anyway, rookies get better in year 2. So back to the Jets they just fired Bowles who on the roster would make a talented coach with other options want to work with the Jets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, jetrider said: Fitz and McCown were because of Bowles. Not really. HC is a full time 80 hour a week sleep on your office couch job. He didn't pick the crap QBs he didn't draft Hackenberg in the 2nd round and he doesn't tell Mac "hey don't worry about QBs, bud. I don't need one." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RESNewYork Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, jetrider said: Fitz and McCown were because of Bowles. Already posted this. Again this is the argument fans want to make against Bowles. Bowles is the HC but is only responsible for the defensive side of the ball. Morton is responsible for the offense if the offense does well. When the offense does poorly, it was because of Bowles. Bowles is also responsible for the GM duties. This poor roster and draft picks are because of Bowles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 1 minute ago, bitonti said: Not really. HC is a full time 80 hour a week sleep on your office couch job. He didn't pick the crap QBs he didn't draft Hackenberg in the 2nd round and he doesn't tell Mac "hey don't worry about QBs, bud. I don't need one." Wait, didn't Bowles declare an unsigned Fitzpatrick as his starter going into last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, bitonti said: the flaws with the D are Mac problems. They don't have any edge rushers or enough CBs. Skrine is supposed to be a nickel. It's the same with the offense. Bowles can't bench Skrine or McCown cause there are no better options on the roster that Mac constructed. Mac should be fired for keeping the draft tilted to the D side of the ball. Bowles can't bench skrine but any d coach worth his salt realizes when a guy is being Target and get shim help some way some how. Morton is being given pure garbage to work with and he is making the O competitive, bowls has been given a team with almost all resources going to defense and it stinks. Macs long term plan will take 10 years at this rate and bowles is an awful head coach who cannot adapt a game plan to avoid players getting taken advantage of and has been awful at getting the best out of his vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleckineau Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I think Bowles is overpromoted but honestly does anyone here think he called the pass play / int. that lost the game? That's on the OC and then the QB for not throwing it away when the play wasnt there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 23 minutes ago, jetrider said: How do you know where Macc ranked Watson or how high or low he prioritized drafting another new QB? You don't because Macc was too busy following Bowles' plan. That's problem #1. Circular logic certainly does help to reinforce ones own conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, bitonti said: Not really. HC is a full time 80 hour a week sleep on your office couch job. He didn't pick the crap QBs he didn't draft Hackenberg in the 2nd round and he doesn't tell Mac "hey don't worry about QBs, bud. I don't need one." 5 minutes ago, RESNewYork said: Already posted this. Again this is the argument fans want to make against Bowles. Bowles is the HC but is only responsible for the defensive side of the ball. Morton is responsible for the offense if the offense does well. When the offense does poorly, it was because of Bowles. Bowles is also responsible for the GM duties. This poor roster and draft picks are because of Bowles. Bowles arrived in Flo Park as a D-guru rookie HC. He never developed a QB in his life. He brought in Gailey. Gailey worked with Fitz. Follow the dominos. Bowles, still a D-minded HC, enters 2017. He never developed a QB in his life. He brings in a rookie OC who never developed a QB either. Macc pulls the trigger on retread McCown. Follow the dominos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 21 minutes ago, jetrider said: Where did I say that? When you expressed that Bowles is responsible for McCown's salary/being on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Todd Bowles coached team doesn't know how to put an opposing team away when they have the lead, they go into prevent offense and defense and usually wind up losing the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, gEYno said: Circular logic certainly does help to reinforce ones own conclusions. Point is, you don't know what Macc lobbied for or would've done if he called the shots himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 This team needs a shakeup and firing Bowes during the season might shake things up or at least put players on notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brown Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I have said it time and time again. If you hire an inexperienced HC you must give him abt least 5 years to see what he has. Mangini was fired to soon for example. Rex was fired after the Jets gutted the team and had Smith as the starting QB. You can’t fire Bowles when you have given him Fitz and McCown as starting QBs. This isn’t 1959; you can’t win with the worst starting QBs in the entire NFL, which Fitzpatrick was last year and McCown, while functional, has been a losing QB for his entire career. This isnt 2009 or 2010 poor QB play can not be overcome by the defense. The rules just don’t favor that strategy anymore. The one exception in the last few years was Denver and they are the exception that proves the rule. Bowles might end up being the Mr. Potato Head HC that so many out here claim he is but you can’t say that based on having QBs like Fitz and McCown under Center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 1 minute ago, gEYno said: When you expressed that Bowles is responsible for McCown's salary/being on the roster. Right ... Macc made the move for Bowles. Don't pull your "superb = superstar" mind stunt again. That was ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, jetrider said: Point is, you don't know what Macc lobbied for or would've done if he called the shots himself. Point is, you don't know that Bowles is actually calling the shots. You've concluded that he is, and that the GM is just Quicken, but you have no actual idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RESNewYork Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, bitonti said: follow up question after you fire Bowles, what coach with options would want this job? Right now they are calling the coach of the Rams the coach of the year cause he "salvaged" Jared Goff 1 overall pick. That could have happened anyway, rookies get better in year 2. So back to the Jets they just fired Bowles who on the roster would make a talented coach with other options want to work with the Jets? Its a legitimate question. Let me add to this. Bowles has been the head coach for 2 1/2 seasons. In 2015 Bowles takes over a 2014 team that went 4-12. They traded for Fitz and Marshall, Signed Revis, Cro, Skrine, Gilchrist, and Carpenter. They go 10-6 with Fitzpatrick at QB. (McVay is doing well with the Rams with a former #1 pick at QB). In 2016 the team goes 5-11. Aging veterans and epic horrible QB play. How do we know the roster was bad? Because going into 2017 those players were released and they are no longer in the NFL or not contributing on a roster. So the consensus is the Jets are going to be a horrible football team. We are now 3-4 with a horrible loss to the Dolphins. So I ask again, who is the current NFL coach you would be happy with? What are the expectations of this coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, jetrider said: Right ... Macc made the move for Bowles. Don't pull your "superb = superstar" mind stunt again. That was ridiculous. Wow, how far under your skin am I? I didn't even remember that exchange... But, thinking about it now, you never operationalized a meaningful difference, so... yeah. Meanwhile, you go to great lengths to defend a guy who you basically are arguing offers literally nothing except doing exactly what Bowles tells him to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, gEYno said: Point is, you don't know that Bowles is actually calling the shots. You've concluded that he is, and that the GM is just Quicken, but you have no actual idea. Jets taking TWO SAFETIES with the TOP TWO PICKS is proof of who calls the shots. Wake the f up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RESNewYork Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 19 minutes ago, NoBowles said: Wait, didn't Bowles declare an unsigned Fitzpatrick as his starter going into last season? Yes he did. Here were his options. Geno, Fitz, Hack, Petty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Just now, jetrider said: Jets taking TWO SAFETIES with the TOP TWO PICKS is proof who calls the shot. Wake the f up. Can you prove this with anything other than capital letters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDL_JET Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 21 minutes ago, Beerfish said: Mac should be fired for keeping the draft tilted to the D side of the ball. Bowles can't bench skrine but any d coach worth his salt realizes when a guy is being Target and get shim help some way some how. Morton is being given pure garbage to work with and he is making the O competitive, bowls has been given a team with almost all resources going to defense and it stinks. Macs long term plan will take 10 years at this rate and bowles is an awful head coach who cannot adapt a game plan to avoid players getting taken advantage of and has been awful at getting the best out of his vets. Don't be so dramatic. He needs to find a corner and pass rusher. On offense he needs to find a QB and probably OT. In due time my friend. Won't take 10 years. No need to blow things up after 3 years just to start all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, gEYno said: Wow, how far under your skin am I? I didn't even remember that exchange... But, thinking about it now, you never operationalized a meaningful difference, so... yeah. Meanwhile, you go to great lengths to defend a guy who you basically are arguing offers literally nothing except doing exactly what Bowles tells him to do. I assumed you looked it up yourself. I left it to you. Superb = very good (adj) Superstar = very successful person (noun) A "superb draft" according to you implied Macc drafted "superstars" ... was your argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 5 hours ago, gEYno said: We are going to be such a good football team once Bowles is gone! If we get a guy like Harbaugh (which is a crap shoot i know) yes we will be a good football team ...who better to have 80 mil and a good number of draft picks ? Remember what Parcells did when he came here ? Instant success by making some nice FA signings and some solid drafts Andy Reid went to an inconsistent KC team and look at them in the playoffs every year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, gEYno said: Can you prove this with anything other than capital letters? NO So I bolded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Smashmouth said: If we get a guy like Harbaugh (which is a crap shoot i know) yes we will be a good football team ...who better to have 80 mil and a good number of draft picks ? Remember what Parcells did when he came here ? Instant success by making some nice FA signings and some solid drafts Andy Reid went to an inconsistent KC team and look at them in the playoffs every year Smash... Smash... Repeat after me. Harbaugh has no interest in the Jets. Harbaugh has no interest in the Jets. Also, if Harbaugh needs some "nice free agent signings and some solid drafts" why wouldn't Bowles, since he's really gotten neither? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RESNewYork Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 18 minutes ago, jetrider said: Bowles arrived in Flo Park as a D-guru rookie HC. He never developed a QB in his life. He brought in Gailey. Gailey worked with Fitz. Follow the dominos. Bowles, still a D-minded HC, enters 2017. He never developed a QB in his life. He brings in a rookie OC who never developed a QB either. Macc pulls the trigger on retread McCown. Follow the dominos. Not exactly sure what you're trying to say. Are you asking who is responsible for developing the young QB's? I would assume QB coach Bates since that is his history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, jetrider said: I assumed you looked it up yourself. I left it to you. Superb = very good (adj) Superstar = very successful person (noun) A "superb draft" according to you implied Macc drafted "superstars" ... was your argument I know you think you just proved something. But, that's not even the definition of superb. It's an understatement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said: I have said it time and time again. If you hire an inexperienced HC you must give him abt least 5 years to see what he has. Mangini was fired to soon for example. Rex was fired after the Jets gutted the team and had Smith as the starting QB. You can’t fire Bowles when you have given him Fitz and McCown as starting QBs. This isn’t 1959; you can’t win with the worst starting QBs in the entire NFL, which Fitzpatrick was last year and McCown, while functional, has been a losing QB for his entire career. This isnt 2009 or 2010 poor QB play can not be overcome by the defense. The rules just don’t favor that strategy anymore. The one exception in the last few years was Denver and they are the exception that proves the rule. Bowles might end up being the Mr. Potato Head HC that so many out here claim he is but you can’t say that based on having QBs like Fitz and McCown under Center. Please provide a single thing that has happened since January 1, 2009 that would support that statement that "Mangini was fired too soon." Rex got his 5 years. I will continue to admit that I liked Ryan, but he certainly deserved to go and did us the solitary favor of taking Idzik with him, which I am not sure was the plan. What rules have changed since 2009 and 2010 that causes defenses to be unable to win? Those changes happened long before. You are basically saying that once you sign Fitzpatrick and McCown you cannot fire the coach. That's pretty harsh. They were able to get a pretty good year out of Fitzpatrick. Why couldn't they do it again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 9 minutes ago, gEYno said: Can you prove this with anything other than capital letters? 两个安全带有两个选择 (liǎng gè ānquán dài yǒu liǎng gè xuǎnzé) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 1 minute ago, RESNewYork said: Not exactly sure what you're trying to say. Are you asking who is responsible for developing the young QB's? I would assume QB coach Bates since that is his history. All you need to know is that every time something doesn't go well, it's Bowles's fault. Every time something does go well, it's because of someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 9 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said: I have said it time and time again. If you hire an inexperienced HC you must give him abt least 5 years to see what he has. Mangini was fired to soon for example. Rex was fired after the Jets gutted the team and had Smith as the starting QB. You can’t fire Bowles when you have given him Fitz and McCown as starting QBs. This isn’t 1959; you can’t win with the worst starting QBs in the entire NFL, which Fitzpatrick was last year and McCown, while functional, has been a losing QB for his entire career. This isnt 2009 or 2010 poor QB play can not be overcome by the defense. The rules just don’t favor that strategy anymore. The one exception in the last few years was Denver and they are the exception that proves the rule. Bowles might end up being the Mr. Potato Head HC that so many out here claim he is but you can’t say that based on having QBs like Fitz and McCown under Center. Screw judging him on QBs (even though he tabbed Fitz as the starter when not even under contract), I judge him by his supposed expertise (defense) and his in game decision making which he has failed at blatantly choosing the wrong direction to go, time & time again. I judge him by his personnel moves i.e. playing Forte like he's still in his 20s (wasn't it hot & humid yesterday?). Skrine is a train wreck & if he starts off bad, he gets targeted & things get worse. So why wouldn't you BAIT opposing QBs to target Skrine but give him help? But NO, you see replay after replay of Skrine in man, on an island getting abused over & over again. Who cares whether it's Kacey or Bowles, Bowles is the boss, so he gets the criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 37 minutes ago, MDL_JET said: Don't be so dramatic. He needs to find a corner and pass rusher. On offense he needs to find a QB and probably OT. In due time my friend. Won't take 10 years. No need to blow things up after 3 years just to start all over again. Actually, he needs to find 3 corners and at least one pass rusher. LT and QB are the easiest slots to fill, right? We don't have to blow things up after 3 years just to start all over again. They blew it up already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, MDL_JET said: Don't be so dramatic. He needs to find a corner and pass rusher. On offense he needs to find a QB and probably OT. In due time my friend. Won't take 10 years. No need to blow things up after 3 years just to start all over again. Yes primer positions in which you almost always need to spend a high draft pick. so QB, LT, pass rusher are must high round picks, CB you can get lucky lower down. by that time some of the guys you drafted before are getting ready to look for big dollars. Qb is of course by far the biggest need. If you get a really good QB he can cover up a lot of ills on your team for year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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