NY Jets players bash Mark Sanchez, say they want Peyton Manning

[Jetscode1]

Less time to throw and he needs to check down more. Also, no separation by the receivers.

We can go on and on...the Jets OL was ranked #17 overall in pass protection (see here http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol) while Sanchez ranked #27 in YPA with a paltry 6.4. Houston OL was ranked was #22 overall in pass protection and yet Matt Schaub YPA managed a 8.49 YPA and their third string QB, the unheralded T. J. Yates put up a 7.08.

You can try to blame the WR but they like us had their leading receiver come from the TE position (Owen Daniels and their All-Pro WR Andre Johnson missed 9 games. Yet, somehow their QBs posted better YPA (the simplest measuring stick to evaluate QBs) than our boy Sanchez.

Not sure what your point is. You saying all is well now that Schotty is gone or just blaming the OL and WRs. Explain. Thanks

[Sharrow]

I think Holmes is a given as one of the players quoted in the article.

[bbatelli]

We can go on and on...the Jets OL was ranked #17 overall in pass protection (see here http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol) while Sanchez ranked #27 in YPA with a paltry 6.4. Houston OL was ranked was #22 overall in pass protection and yet Matt Schaub YPA managed a 8.49 YPA and their third string QB, the unheralded T. J. Yates put up a 7.08.

You can try to blame the WR but they like us had their leading receiver come from the TE position (Owen Daniels and their All-Pro WR Andre Johnson missed 9 games. Yet, somehow their QBs posted better YPA (the simplest measuring stick to evaluate QBs) than our boy Sanchez.

Not sure what your point is. You saying all is well now that Schotty is gone or just blaming the OL and WRs. Explain. Thanks

I am saying that Sanchez had a bad year because of all of the above. Bad game planning (OC), Bad Offensive line (hit more, leads to happy feet), Bad offensive line (run game could not get going, can't set up the pass, etc), WR didnt get separation. Now, Sanchez did have a bad year and this all played into it. A great QB can handle this, I agree. However, look at some one like Matt Cassell, he played in the NE system and was great with all the pieces around him. KC, not so much.

[bbatelli]

I don't think Santonio is smart enough to get away with something like this. His M.O. Would be more along the lines of calling in to Francesa using the super-secret code name "Antonio from Aspen, NJ."

Hey I know him. Good guy.

[CTM]

We can go on and on...the Jets OL was ranked #17 overall in pass protection (see here http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol) while Sanchez ranked #27 in YPA with a paltry 6.4. Houston OL was ranked was #22 overall in pass protection and yet Matt Schaub YPA managed a 8.49 YPA and their third string QB, the unheralded T. J. Yates put up a 7.08.

You can try to blame the WR but they like us had their leading receiver come from the TE position (Owen Daniels and their All-Pro WR Andre Johnson missed 9 games. Yet, somehow their QBs posted better YPA (the simplest measuring stick to evaluate QBs) than our boy Sanchez.

Not sure what your point is. You saying all is well now that Schotty is gone or just blaming the OL and WRs. Explain. Thanks

yates saw a lot more 8-9 in the box then Sanchez did this season cause they have a legit rushing threat. It was similiar to Sanchez in 09 and 10

[Larz]

the media is in a feeding frenzy, the go after low hanging fruit, and they get two quotes, possibly from 1 single source, and it may have been a practice squad guy, or holmes, who the hell knows

this is a media that printed what a rookie who got hurt and missed the whole season said, mind you

I bet they moved some pulp today

snooooooze

[KSJets]

Did you hear Eli's subtle rip of the Jets franchise? Say that the Giants have a "certain way of doing things" and "we don't do such things over here" leading up to the Jets-Giants' game?

They've been talking sh*t leading up to every game since then though. So much for them not talking sh*t.

[BP]

How far we've come that an 8-8 season is a "complete mess" or a "free fall".. ohh the humanity.

If they get Sparano and Haley the offense - where most of the whining seems to be coming from - is instantly transformed.

This article reads like something out of the Globe. I'll reserve judgement till I see what the Jets look like in late April.

The Jets were 9-7 in 2008 and collapsed late in the season. it sure looks like dejavu to those that dont wear the green glasses

[Jetscode1]

yates saw a lot more 8-9 in the box then Sanchez did this season cause they have a legit rushing threat. It was similiar to Sanchez in 09 and 10

Not sure where your going with this...spin this one...Kevin Kolb posted a 7.73 YPA yet his OL and pass protection and rushing efficiency were lower ranked than the Jets as a unit...like I said it goes on and on...

In 09/10 Sanchez was 6.7 and 6.5 YPA...still a little short.

Either way we look at it he needs competition.

[Jetscode1]

the media is in a feeding frenzy, the go after low hanging fruit, and they get two quotes, possibly from 1 single source, and it may have been a practice squad guy, or holmes, who the hell knows

this is a media that printed what a rookie who got hurt and missed the whole season said, mind you

I bet they moved some pulp today

snooooooze

Thought the kid first mentioned it in a local radio interviiew back in his hometown soemwhere in Alabama...not exactly the rabid New York press...just a kid with some observations...personally I like the sh*t show...

[BP]

Rex did not inherit an expansion franchise. although some are acting like he did..lol

[Jetsfan80]

the media is in a feeding frenzy, the go after low hanging fruit, and they get two quotes, possibly from 1 single source, and it may have been a practice squad guy, or holmes, who the hell knows

this is a media that printed what a rookie who got hurt and missed the whole season said, mind you

I bet they moved some pulp today

snooooooze

Mehta said its coming from "top to bottom" in the organization, so unless he's lying, you're incorrect.

[GimmeShelter]

I think it hard for him to respond that he can say with "certainty that Sanchez has a great work ethic and a firm handle on the playbook." to a poster last week in his chat and then turn around and write an article saying that he is lazy and overwhelmed by the playbook a week later.

I guess Mehta doesn't have a pulse on the team

Bingo! Jets are in turmoil and my columns are not getting any play soooooooo......ah the unamed sources.

Brilliant!!!!

[CTM]

Not sure where your going with this...spin this one...Kevin Kolb posted a 7.73 YPA yet his OL and pass protection and rushing efficiency were lower ranked than the Jets as a unit...like I said it goes on and on...

In 09/10 Sanchez was 6.7 and 6.5 YPA...still a little short.

Either way we look at it he needs competition.

Kolb is better then Sanchez??? i have no idea, didn't watch az this year

I was pointing our why Yates did better, that's all.. I agree sanchez needs competition

[Freemanm]

I know I quote Parcells all the time, but I think one of his quotes applies here: whenever he heard a player complaining about a loss, Parcells would ask him, "what did YOU do to help us win?" I saw an offensive line give up 40 sacks, a WR who cared more about his stats than his team, an offensive coordinator who didn't know what he was doing, and a defense that was tired and gave up way too many big plays. What happened to the 2010 season, when Sanchez led something like four 4Q comebacks (remember the Colts in the playoffs?) does anyone remember that? The Jets have a chance to regroup and once they start winning again, all of this will settle down. Besides, we should rejoice, Schotty' gone.

[Smashmouth]

I don't think Santonio is smart enough to get away with something like this. His M.O. Would be more along the lines of calling in to Francesa using the super-secret code name "Antonio from Aspen, NJ."

while exhaling

[aec4]

Ok, you proved your point. All you had to do is ignore the fact that he also doubled his rushing TD's (3 to 6), had 9 more passing touchdowns, and improved his passing TD/INT ratio by +4 from +4 to +8 so... congratulations on your epic argument.

He also upped his opponents defensive TDs allowed from 1 to 8 I believe.

[GimmeShelter]

He also upped his opponents defensive TDs allowed from 1 to 8 I believe.

Yep directly cost us a play-off birth but he still will get and deserves year #4 to see if he is in our long term plans barring Brees or a healthy Manning.

All his detractors here know this as well and if they were the Jets GM/HC they would also bring him back for year four inspite of their endless posts stating otherwise.

[Larz]

Mehta said its coming from "top to bottom" in the organization, so unless he's lying, you're incorrect.

all he has to do is put a name to a quote

[joebabyny]

Well, Nick, which is it? Is the story false, as you say, or are there players who need to man up and put their name to it?

Huge contradiction here.

No it isn't. Manoosh is using an unnamed source to push the angle that Sanchez has lost the team's faith. Mangold is saying the team is still behind him. He is also calling out the person making these accusations. So mangold is saying the idea that the team is done with Sanchez is false and wants the guy saying otherwise to step up and put his name to it.

[ZachEY]

No it isn't. Manoosh is using an unnamed source to push the angle that Sanchez has lost the team's faith. Mangold is saying the team is still behind him. He is also calling out the person making these accusations. So mangold is saying the idea that the team is done with Sanchez is false and wants the guy saying otherwise to step up and put his name to it.

Yeah, but it's not "an" unnamed source, Manish is quoting multiple sources, and said later in the day on PFT live something like "more than a handful". Clearly people in the organization see what most fans have begun to.

[Jetscode1]

Kolb is better then Sanchez??? i have no idea, didn't watch az this year

I was pointing our why Yates did better, that's all.. I agree sanchez needs competition

Statistically maybe...but rather have Sanchez...guess I'm just trying to make the point that like BG stated in this or another thread (who knows how many) the problem with Sanchez is his fault and the offensive system he plays in...both combined to underperform the majority of teams in the league.

[joebabyny]

Yeah, but it's not "an" unnamed source, Manish is quoting multiple sources, and said later in the day on PFT live something like "more than a handful". Clearly people in the organization see what most fans have begun to.

First, I'm just pointing out that mangold is not being contradictory, whether it is 1-5 guys as sources, mangold believes the team as a whole does not share the sentiment of the article, and dared those saying otherwise to step up and make themselves know. Just speaking to your claim that he is being contradictory.

And as far as his "handful of sources," what is a handful? My handful is probably more than manish's handful. And between 53 players, practice squad, and probably close to 100 others "in the organization" how many people speaking out would it take to really make the sentiment representative of what the organization feels? And doesn't it matter at least a little bit who is doing the criticizing. I mean, if it were Cro, which I doubt, how would he know how much mark is working, what is the last offense or qb meeting he has sat in on?

It just sounds to me like Manish might have taken the sentiment that has recently been expressed by other commentators who have no inside info themselves, got one or two guys to secretly bitch, and spun it into something that is not really there. Say what you want about Sanchez, in his 3 years there was never a mention of his work ethic until either dilfer or Steve young mentioned it may be an issue about a month ago, and now it is a problem that the team is aware of. Sounds fishy to me.

[LottsMissingFingerTip]

THE ANONYMOUS SOURCE(S) is/are:

Just as guilty

as being a sh*tty teammate...Holmes

as being lazy and complacent as Sanchez

as being sucky as Hunter for giving up 11 sacks

as Greene and his sh*tload of dropped passes

as pathetic as Schottys predictable offense

Etc Etc Etc

**** EM!..

I want em off the team as much as anyone else that can't do the right thing by this organization.

And anyone who is "completly offended" by Homles behavior, should be equally at this bullsh*t talking out of house.

THAT IS FOR TWATS!

[ZachEY]

First, I'm just pointing out that mangold is not being contradictory, whether it is 1-5 guys as sources, mangold believes the team as a whole does not share the sentiment of the article, and dared those saying otherwise to step up and make themselves know. Just speaking to your claim that he is being contradictory.

And as far as his "handful of sources," what is a handful? My handful is probably more than manish's handful. And between 53 players, practice squad, and probably close to 100 others "in the organization" how many people speaking out would it take to really make the sentiment representative of what the organization feels? And doesn't it matter at least a little bit who is doing the criticizing. I mean, if it were Cro, which I doubt, how would he know how much mark is working, what is the last offense or qb meeting he has sat in on?

It just sounds to me like Manish might have taken the sentiment that has recently been expressed by other commentators who have no inside info themselves, got one or two guys to secretly bitch, and spun it into something that is not really there. Say what you want about Sanchez, in his 3 years there was never a mention of his work ethic until either slider or Steve young mentioned it may be an issue about a month ago, and now it is a problem that the team is aware of. Sounds fishy to me.

Fair enough on the 1st point. I see it slightly differently, but not enough so to make it worth going back and forth on it.

As far as how many, I don't know. I think more than a few is enough to be meaningful. If the whole organization was against him, he'd be gone. Though, I think everyone knows that financials come into play, and if he were a 3rd rounder and paid as such, the scenario would be quite different.

As for the laziness, all I can say is that it's come up on multiple occasions now. Do I know if it's true? Not a clue. But, I will say, it was described as on the practice field, not so much in the meeting rooms, so all would be able to see it. What I really don't get is why that one is the one everyone's so worried about. These quotes also question whether he's any good, whether he can understand the playbook and the gameplans, his maturity, his mental toughness, whether he's improved, and his ability to get his team lined up correctly. The article even states that Tannenbaum, who attached his name to it, said he's not where he needs to be in terms of development:

Six days later, general manager

Mike Tannenbaum said that Sanchez’s “rate of growth isn’t where it needs to be.”

Yet, everyone wants to talk about laziness. Too me, all of those other things are bigger problems, and by the way, things I feel like I've seen with my own eyes watching this team play each week, and members of the Jets seem to agree, including the GM.

[Postcall]

If McElroy made these comments I want him to be the starting QB because he is a diabolical genius and will one day end up running things anyway. Well played sir well played indeed.

[joebabyny]

Fair enough on the 1st point. I see it slightly differently, but not enough so to make it worth going back and forth on it.

As far as how many, I don't know. I think more than a few is enough to be meaningful. If the whole organization was against him, he'd be gone. Though, I think everyone knows that financials come into play, and if he were a 3rd rounder and paid as such, the scenario would be quite different.

As for the laziness, all I can say is that it's come up on multiple occasions now. Do I know if it's true? Not a clue. But, I will say, it was described as on the practice field, not so much in the meeting rooms, so all would be able to see it. What I really don't get is why that one is the one everyone's so worried about. These quotes also question whether he's any good, whether he can understand the playbook and the gameplans, his maturity, his mental toughness, whether he's improved, and his ability to get his team lined up correctly. The article even states that Tannenbaum, who attached his name to it, said he's not where he needs to be in terms of development:

Six days later, general manager

Mike Tannenbaum said that Sanchez’s “rate of growth isn’t where it needs to be.”

Yet, everyone wants to talk about laziness. Too me, all of those other things are bigger problems, and by the way, things I feel like I've seen with my own eyes watching this team play each week, and members of the Jets seem to agree, including the GM.

Well, because laziness would be inexcusable on every level and would be a problem that could not be corrected, it's a pretty innate thing, like Jamarcus Russell.

A lot of the other stuff is correctable through coaching, practice, and maturity, as long as the player is reasonably intelligent. I don't think Sanchez is Vince young stupid. Hey, it took Vick a long time to figure out how to be a throwing qb, well, throwing qb for him anyway.

So he may have been having trouble wrapping his head around schottys brand of offense. Maybe that is schottys fault or maybe marks or maybe a combination of the 2. It's easier to get a coordinator so that decision was easy.

Maybe he was having trouble with reads in the game, maybe that's on him and maybe that's on the o-line this season which is nowhere near where they were the last 2 years. In regards to that it is probably a combination of the 2. And regardless of who is under center, we need improvement in the line, so we will do that and see if that helps Sanchez.

At any rate, it is obvious that like Tammy says, marks improvement is not where it should be. Maybe he is lazy, maybe he doesn't have the tools, maybe it was the coaches or game plans, or maybe it was his supporting cast. In any case, the other changes needed to be made regardless of the qb, so let's make them and then see how this kid works out next season. He has won too many games and had too many glimmers of good to just toss him at this point.

[ZachEY]

Well, because laziness would be inexcusable on every level and would be a problem that could not be corrected, it's a pretty innate thing, like Jamarcus Russell.

A lot of the other stuff is correctable through coaching, practice, and maturity, as long as the player is reasonably intelligent. I don't think Sanchez is Vince young stupid. Hey, it took Vick a long time to figure out how to be a throwing qb, well, throwing qb for him anyway.

So he may have been having trouble wrapping his head around schottys brand of offense. Maybe that is schottys fault or maybe marks or maybe a combination of the 2. It's easier to get a coordinator so that decision was easy.

Maybe he was having trouble with reads in the game, maybe that's on him and maybe that's on the o-line this season which is nowhere near where they were the last 2 years. In regards to that it is probably a combination of the 2. And regardless of who is under center, we need improvement in the line, so we will do that and see if that helps Sanchez.

At any rate, it is obvious that like Tammy says, marks improvement is not where it should be. Maybe he is lazy, maybe he doesn't have the tools, maybe it was the coaches or game plans, or maybe it was his supporting cast. In any case, the other changes needed to be made regardless of the qb, so let's make them and then see how this kid works out next season. He has won too many games and had too many glimmers of good to just toss him at this point.

You make good points, and you articulate them well, which is refreshing in this debate. For me, as TomShane pointed out in another thread, I actually feel better if I could say, he's not a hard worker, but he'll grow up. Success hit him too early, and now he's learning. I don't really believe that. I believe he's not good. I believe he built a resume by playing one year for a team that was better than everyone else. The other stuff, the things I've listed, I don't think they're that correctable. In the world of interwebz dick measuring competitions, it's pretty vindicating that those surrounding him are saying the same things I am, if only under their breath for now, but as a Jets fan, it's pretty damn concerning that we've invested all we have in this player and have gotten so little return.

Honestly, I get the argument about the Oline this year. I do. And, I respect Mangold for putting the blame on him. But, my feelings on Sanchez came before this season, and he's done little to change my feelings in either direction with the exception of get older. Meaning, you have certain expectations of improvement and he hasn't. And, I get that he was in a more difficult situation this year, but I don't think it was as bad as his defenders make it out to be, nor am I particularly impressed with him on the majority of drop backs where he's not under significant pressure. That's really the issue, though I do believe he takes hits because defenses scheme to attack him because he's never shown he can handle pressure and because I think he holds the ball way too long, I just don't like him as a Quarterback when he has time to throw. He's still inaccurate then.

I'm also not advocating tossing him (save a Manning/Brees miracle). I am advocating giving him some real competition. If you bring in Jason Campbell, and Jason Campbell is better than him in training camp, then you play Jason Campbell. I also believe, ala Ron Wolf, that we draft a QB every year. I realize he wont be cut or traded this offseason, but I think it's foolish to just continue to reward him by handing him the starting job and not having someone else capable of playing on the roster. I understand why Holmes and others are upset, and think they should be.

[CTM]

First, I'm just pointing out that mangold is not being contradictory, whether it is 1-5 guys as sources, mangold believes the team as a whole does not share the sentiment of the article, and dared those saying otherwise to step up and make themselves know. Just speaking to your claim that he is being contradictory.

frankly if Mangold is 100% behind sanchez and believe the rest of the team to be, then he's a buffoon. Great center, not much of a thinker

[JerryK]

frankly if Mangold is 100% behind sanchez and believe the rest of the team to be, then he's a buffoon. Great center, not much of a thinker

Or Mangold is smart enough to know that his line couldn't protect him, and that the different between good QBs and great QBs is the 2 extra seconds per play a *real* OL would have provided.

[ZachEY]

frankly if Mangold is 100% behind sanchez and believe the rest of the team to be, then he's a buffoon. Great center, not much of a thinker

You'd be a buffoon to listen to that Michael Kay interview and believe everything Mangold says. Every single point he made was company line. After a disappointing 8-8 season, the only thing he can say is that his own unit needed to do better. Come on. You think he really believes that? Or do you think he's a good soldier?

The funny part is everyone saying that Mangold is acting how you should act and saying everything you should say and celebrating him for that. Yet, they we all celebrate Rex Ryan for "telling it like it is".

[CTM]

Or Mangold is smart enough to know that his line couldn't protect him, and that the different between good QBs and great QBs is the 2 extra seconds per play a *real* OL would have provided.

Is that for all three years of Sanchez sucking, or just this latest one? Please clarify, but if it's just that one, include the excuse for the prior 2 years so I can respond in 1 post.. thanks!

[JerryK]

I realize the line didn't suck last year, but neither did the Jets. The line did suck this year.

Would Manning risk his busted neck to stand behind hunter and mulligan?

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I'd *love* to get Manning. But I think he knows the value of a good line, and wouldn't come here because we can't reliably produce one.

[JustInFudge]

You'd be a buffoon to listen to that Michael Kay interview and believe everything Mangold says. Every single point he made was company line. After a disappointing 8-8 season, the only thing he can say is that his own unit needed to do better. Come on. You think he really believes that? Or do you think he's a good soldier?

The funny part is everyone saying that Mangold is acting how you should act and saying everything you should say and celebrating him for that. Yet, they we all celebrate Rex Ryan for "telling it like it is".

I dont know about the interview thingy but your second point is my favorite contradiction going around the board right now. Its gives me the smirkies.

[SenorGato]

Ah, I get it. You didn't watch a game this season.

Adjustments is such a 2008 buzz knock too. All that was done was adjustments to work around Sanchez's sh*ttiness.