Damaged89 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Dustin Keller isnt even a top 10 player at his position. If Dustin Keller is the key to your offense you probably have a prety sh*tty offense. I don't think he's fantastic but he's pretty good. We wouldn't even really know how good he can be since we have trash at qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Not only did the Jets FO trade away picks like they had no value, they seemed to go with riskier picks in the first couple of rounds. Sanchez was a big risk. He'd had 1 season as a starter at USC. I believe his coach said he should have stayed another year. Ducasse was a risk. Both Coples and Hill are risks compared to other players the Jets could have taken. I didn't want Sanchez, but I'm happy with the team taking every other one of those risks. The problem is lack of picks. You used a lot of words to simply agree with me here. Trading a fourth for Tebow was beyond stupid when a team has as many needs that couldn't be filled with FAs as the Jets had -- and still have. Backup QB was already filled with FA QB Drew Stanford. The Jets needed a WC QB about as much as the Dolphins did when Parcells drafted Pat White in the second round in 2009. I know you want to make this is an issue, but it's not one. The Jets grabbed Tebow to be a Brad Smith type player, not a traditional backup. They'd hope Stanton never saw the field, while they play to get Tebow on the field quite a bit. You'd think that a guy who roots for a team that gave Smith a $16M contract would get that. Out of one side of your mouth, you say the Jets didn't need a WC QB, out of the other you say... ...but there's simply NOT a lot of offensive talent on the Jets. Those crows seem likely to come home to roost this season. Which is it? Did the Jets need offensive help or not? Who were they gonna take in the fourth round that was going to make a bigger impact on offense this year than Tebow? I don't like Tebow, either, but I can see that he's a guy who can help them score TDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 One of the advantages of being a Bills fan is gaining insight into what bad teams look like. LOL. You'd kill to have 8-8 be a "down year". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Dustin Keller isnt even a top 10 player at his position. If Dustin Keller is the key to your offense you probably have a prety sh*tty offense. Name 10 TEs better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damaged89 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 LOL. You'd kill to have 8-8 be a "down year". He seems awful smug for being a fan of a team with a quarterback who is only marginally better than Mark Sanchez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 One of the advantages of being a Bills fan is gaining insight into what bad teams look like. Bad teams dont go to the AFC Championship game 2 years in a row or havent had a losing season in 5 years. You want to call the Jets average, or slightly above which is more accurate. I'll listen. But all credibility goes out the window when you call a team who competes for or makes the playoffs each year a "bad" team. Bad teams are teams like the Rams, Dolphags, Browns or Bills. The Jets arent in that category no matter how hard you try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Name 10 TEs better. Gronk Hernandez Graham Gates Celek Witten V.Davis Gonzalez Finley He's around the top 10 I guess...Fred Davis, Gresham you could make a case for. In terms of an all around guy...guys like Heath Miller could serve more value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Name 10 TEs better. Jimmy Graham Rob Gronkowski Antonio Gates Jason Witten Vernon Davis Tony Gonzalez Jermichael Finley Fred Davis That's 8. I'd probably put Keller alongside Brent Celek, Jared Cook, Brandon Pettigrew, and Aaron Hernandez in the 9-13 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Gronk Hernandez Graham Gates Celek Witten V.Davis Gonzalez Finley He's around the top 10 I guess...Fred Davis, Gresham you could make a case for. In terms of an all around guy...guys like Heath Miller could serve more value. I'd take Keller ahead of Gonzalez and Gates at this point in their careers, easily, and Finley and Hernandez at any time. Keller would be an absolute beast playing with Brady or Rogers. Keller's pushing top five when it comes to receiving TEs in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 He seems awful smug for being a fan of a team with a quarterback who is only marginally better than Mark Sanchez. I think I like Fitzpatrick a little more than you do, and adding Mario Williams certainly puts the Bills in that contender realm. But any team that overpays the Jets trash (Brad Smith) and gets their ass beaten by them (Jets have won 7 of last 8) has to earn the trash-talking priveleges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I'd take Keller ahead of Gonzalez and Gates at this point in their careers, easily, and Finley and Hernandez at any time. Keller would be an absolute beast playing with Brady or Rogers. Keller's pushing top five when it comes to receiving TEs in the NFL. You're insane. Gates has looked great in camp and is 10x the athlete Keller is even when he's not fully healthy. Gonzalez is STILL highly productive by any standard. And you can't just use the QB excuse to put him ahead of Finley and Hernandez, because Sanchez throws to Keller a lot more than Brady/Rodgers....those guys spread the ball around a lot more, yet Finley and Hernandez are equally productive or moreso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Kyle Rudolph will be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I'd take Keller ahead of Gonzalez and Gates at this point in their careers, easily, and Finley and Hernandez at any time. Keller would be an absolute beast playing with Brady or Rogers. Keller's pushing top five when it comes to receiving TEs in the NFL. What does Keller do better than Hernandez? Hell hernandez was taking sweeps last year for 40 yard gains. You think we coudl hand the ball off to Keller? He isnt that type of athlete at all.. What makes you think Keller would be an absolute beast playing for either? He doesnt stretch the field, doesnt break tackles, trips over himself, has a knack for boneheaded plays( stepping out of bounds on fourth down coems to mind) Keller at his best I could see having a big year similar to Clark in Indy...and even he was one of the more overrated players in the league...its was all Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Kyle Rudolph will be better. But Tom, you moron. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 You're insane. Gates has looked great in camp and is 10x the athlete Keller is even when he's not fully healthy. Gonzalez is STILL highly productive by any standard. "Fully healthy" being the operative phrase. Gates is 32, and hasn't been able to stay on the field the last two years. Gonzalez is 36, hasn't had a YAC number over 3.2 since '06, and never once in his career posted the 5.0 YAC number Keller had last season. Gonzalez is a first ballot HoF'er, but there's not a GM in the league who takes him over Keller today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 "Fully healthy" being the operative phrase. Gates is 32, and hasn't been able to stay on the field the last two years. Gonzalez is 36, hasn't had a YAC number over 3.2 since '06, and never once in his career posted the 5.0 YAC number Keller had last season. Gonzalez is a first ballot HoF'er, but there's not a GM in the league who takes him over Keller today. This is utter lunacy. Keller is terrible and Gonzalez was one of the best TEs in football last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 This is utter lunacy. Keller is terrible and Gonzalez was one of the best TEs in football last season. Utter lunacy is calling Keller terrible. Gonzalez is on his last legs, and Keller's getting better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Utter lunacy is calling Keller terrible. Gonzalez is on his last legs, and Keller's getting better. His last legs were still good enough to be 4th in DYAR and 10th in DVOA last season. Keller was 32nd in both, and he's actually getting marginally worse (31st/30th in 2009, 27th/29th in 2010). I don't have the PFF numbers but I'd bet they'll tell you the same story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 His last legs were still good enough to be 4th in DYAR and 10th in DVOA last season. Keller was 32nd in both, and he's actually getting marginally worse (31st/30th in 2009, 27th/29th in 2010). I don't have the PFF numbers but I'd bet they'll tell you the same story. Holy crap...32? I didnt even think he was that bad. Just figured average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Holy crap...32? I didnt even think he was that bad. Just figured average. Me too. His catch rate is absolutely abysmal, which in all fairness is partially on Sanchez, but even removing that from the equation probably wouldn't be enough to push him out of the bottom 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Utter lunacy is calling Keller terrible. Gonzalez is on his last legs, and Keller's getting better. I'll take Gonzalez on his last legs any day, and every GM in the league would agree with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damaged89 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I think I like Fitzpatrick a little more than you do, and adding Mario Williams certainly puts the Bills in that contender realm. But any team that overpays the Jets trash (Brad Smith) and gets their ass beaten by them (Jets have won 7 of last 8) has to earn the trash-talking priveleges. Fitzpatrick reminds me of Chad Pennington. I do think he's better than Sanchez but that doesn't mean much. Williams is good but not 100 million dollars good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Williams is good but not 100 million dollars good. No non-QB is worth that kind of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDKostempski Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Bad teams dont go to the AFC Championship game 2 years in a row or havent had a losing season in 5 years. You want to call the Jets average, or slightly above which is more accurate. I'll listen. But all credibility goes out the window when you call a team who competes for or makes the playoffs each year a "bad" team. Bad teams are teams like the Rams, Dolphags, Browns or Bills. The Jets arent in that category no matter how hard you try. It's what the team does in the current season that means something, not what it did the season before or the season before that or the season five years ago. Both the Jets and Colts made the playoffs in 2009 and 2010. Fact. Did that fact prevent the Colts from imploding in 2011? Did that fact enable the Jets to make the playoffs in 2011? The Colts are a crappy team. The Jets have the look of one that could just as crappy. Maybe they won't be, but don't bet more than you can afford to lose on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 The Colts are a crappy team. The Jets have the look of one that could just as crappy. I'm as big a pessimist as anyone, but get ahold of yourself, brochacho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 It's what the team does in the current season that means something, not what it did the season before or the season before that or the season five years ago. Both the Jets and Colts made the playoffs in 2009 and 2010. Fact. Did that fact prevent the Colts from imploding in 2011? Did that fact enable the Jets to make the playoffs in 2011? The Colts are a crappy team. The Jets have the look of one that could just as crappy. Maybe they won't be, but don't bet more than you can afford to lose on it. All credibility, which was extremely little, is completely and utterly out the window. No matter what you post, from this point forward is going to result in the following response: Derpity Derp Derp De-Derp Congrats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Can we start talking about Friday's game? If the first team O doesn't average 4+ ypc, I might start panicking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Can we start talking about Friday's game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 It's what the team does in the current season that means something, not what it did the season before or the season before that or the season five years ago. Both the Jets and Colts made the playoffs in 2009 and 2010. Fact. Did that fact prevent the Colts from imploding in 2011? Did that fact enable the Jets to make the playoffs in 2011? The Colts are a crappy team. The Jets have the look of one that could just as crappy. Maybe they won't be, but don't bet more than you can afford to lose on it. the big difference between colts and jets is the chance the colts become great again is very high ,while jets navigate in muddy waters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 His last legs were still good enough to be 4th in DYAR and 10th in DVOA last season. Keller was 32nd in both, and he's actually getting marginally worse (31st/30th in 2009, 27th/29th in 2010). I don't have the PFF numbers but I'd bet they'll tell you the same story. Drop percentage has been pretty bad, but an interesting one that they recently tracked was Yards per Route Run and Keller was somewhere in the 16-20 range, (below guys like Daniels or Lewis). The thing I found interesting about that particular metric is that it was an interesting take on the correlation between conventional production and opportunities, and the list was pretty legit. Graham and Gronk were so far ahead of everyone it wasn't even funny, Evan Moore deserved more opportunities (which has been long known), ditto for Finley and Jared Cook. With Keller, the stat basically inferred that he's not producing nearly what he should be when taking into account the opportunities he's been afforded over the past 3 seasons. While the formula was very basic, (yards/routes), the fact that FO's numbers wholly support some of the interpretations help make it a telling stat, (things like Fred Davis is probably pretty good, Heath Miller is probably overrated...etc). The thing about Keller is he still produces yards, and from the TE position that's always going to be overvalued in today's league. He's going to get overpaid next offseason and it's not going to be by us. I thought we should have explored trading him before the draft, because the comp pick we're going to get for losing him (probably a 4th) isn't going to be as high as what we could have gotten by a some semi-desperate GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 His last legs were still good enough to be 4th in DYAR and 10th in DVOA last season. Keller was 32nd in both, and he's actually getting marginally worse (31st/30th in 2009, 27th/29th in 2010). I don't have the PFF numbers but I'd bet they'll tell you the same story. Meh, I don't know. They had to sample a lot of guys with a lot less production than Keller to rank higher in nerd numbers. Keller was 6th in the league in yards, 9th in yards/catch, and 9th in catches among NFL TEs. He's doing something right despite catches passing from Sanchez in Schottenheimer's offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Meh, I don't know. They had to sample a lot of guys with a lot less production than Keller to rank higher in nerd numbers. Those aren't sample sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious89x Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 It's what the team does in the current season that means something, not what it did the season before or the season before that or the season five years ago. Both the Jets and Colts made the playoffs in 2009 and 2010. Fact. Did that fact prevent the Colts from imploding in 2011? Did that fact enable the Jets to make the playoffs in 2011? The Colts are a crappy team. The Jets have the look of one that could just as crappy. Maybe they won't be, but don't bet more than you can afford to lose on it. If the jets lost Sanchez and Tebow our drop-off would not be as steep as losing Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 If the jets lost Sanchez and Tebow our drop-off would not be as steep as losing Manning. Dare I say, it might even be an upgrade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDKostempski Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Dare I say, it might even be an upgrade? McElroy??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.