Chad visits Jets camp to "tutor" QBs

[slats]

So let me take a wild guess pass rushers bother QB's ? Right ? But when the Raiders of 02 beat the daylights out of Chad hes exposed ? This clears everything up now.

People always seem top point at the Talent of the players around Brady but he had WAY more talent than Chad ever dreamed of having . Sure in his early years it was nothing great (before they started adding playerss like Welker and Moss and in later years Gronk and Hernandez) But it was very clear great defense and managed offense won those SB's not incerdible QB play. Once Brady started getting superior talent arond him his nimbers didnt just go up they sky rocketed.

Bash Chad all you want he played his entire career with sub par JAGS and never ever had a TE to speak of either. He had 2 WR's who could not get any separation and this is what the Raiders and other teams exposed

Prior to that game, there were no complaints about Chad's receivers while he was completing 70% of his throws for a 22:6 TD:int ratio.

But Pennington was never the same after that playoff loss. His TD:int ratio was JAG-like for the rest of his career. For the rest of his career, he beat the teams he was supposed to beat, and lost to the teams he was expected to lose to. Given the Jets glorious history, just beating the teams you're supposed to beat was an upgrade, but it didn't make him good.

If you don't like the word exposed, that's fine. But with a decent cast of WRs in Coles, Chrebet, Cotchery, Moss, and a solid running game throughout his career, he never even got close to that magical 2002 season ever again.

[Smashmouth]

Prior to that game, there were no complaints about Chad's receivers while he was completing 70% of his throws for a 22:6 TD:int ratio.

But Pennington was never the same after that playoff loss. His TD:int ratio was JAG-like for the rest of his career. For the rest of his career, he beat the teams he was supposed to beat, and lost to the teams he was expected to lose to. Given the Jets glorious history, just beating the teams you're supposed to beat was an upgrade, but it didn't make him good.

If you don't like the word exposed, that's fine. But with a decent cast of WRs in Coles, Chrebet, Cotchery, Moss, and a solid running game throughout his career, he never even got close to that magical 2002 season ever again.

Slats he played in a west coast offense very similar to the one Bill Walsh ran with Joe Montana. It was a short passing game designed with the short and intermidiate passing ranges along with a lot of utilization of a pass receiving RB. Montanas offense had one thing Chads didnt and that was superior talent at every single position WR RB TE and multiple options at each position to boot. Just to Clear some thing up before the Idiots chime in, IM NOT COMPARING THE 2 QB's.

What the Raiders exposed was the Jets entire offense and the Jets had no answers for it. They had No deep threat to stretrch the field and Curtis Martin was not a game breaking type back so the Raiders were able to play us very tight taking away the short passing game. They had a very good defense.

Then what did the Jets do for Chad the following year ?? Rather than add some talent to the offense to open things up they Let his favorite Receiver go to the Redskins. Thats a very interesting move since just about every team that has a QB that shows as much promise as Chad did in 02 usually goes out and adds talent While the Jets subtracted it. And all the anti Chad haters cant understand why Chads numbers went down ??

Sounds like simple common sense to me along with the Fact Chads Career started tumbleing due to injury as well.

To blindly hate the guy like some do on these forums to the point of even comeing up with conspiracy theories on how Chad kept his job for so many years is insulting to most non Trolls. Im not saying by any means this is you Slats but I think you know where Im coming from. You cant discuss anything rationally with trolls.

And for what its worth Slats Pennington actully played well with both Coles and Moss but what did the Jets do with both those WR's the year after they had damn good years with Chad ?? explain to me when in all the years Chad played here the Jets EVER addeed talent .

[Lupz27]

Leave the Pennington. Take the Cavanaugh.

I know the rant sounded like me calling for Cavanough's job (I do want him gone) but it wasn't about that, it was about the fact that his superiors seeked out outside help for the QB's, so it to me shows they are unhappy with Cavanaugh so just fire the guy if that's the case that's all.

[slats]

What the Raiders exposed was the Jets entire offense and the Jets had no answers for it. They had No deep threat to stretrch the field and Curtis Martin was not a game breaking type back so the Raiders were able to play us very tight taking away the short passing game. They had a very good defense.

I'm sorry, but this is revisionist history. The Jets had Laveranues Coles and Santana Moss in that game. The deep threat was not a problem.

And the Raiders defense was nothing special that year, either. They were ranked 23rd against the pass. They had a game plan to beat Pennington, and Pennington never won another game that he wasn't supposed to win going in.

I'm no Pennington hater, but I recognize that he raised expectations to a very high level in '02 and never lived up to them. That playoff game was the clear line between the Pennington that was getting Montana comparisons to the check down champ that so many fans still despise today.

[Smashmouth]

Santana Moss hardly played that year it was his first real year of action and he was hurt for most of it with hammy injuries. All the Jets had at the WR position was Coles and Chrebet and Chrebet was totally out of his comfort zone playing WR he was a known slot receiver and did not have the speed to get separation as a wideout . The Jets had the perfect combo with Keyshawn at WR and Chrebet in the slot and they let Keyshawn go.

Using a receiver like Moss to make your point is silly and trying to make the Jets talent look good and the QB look bad is not much better.

Solid running game ? 101 yards per game ? Part of the reason the raiders totally ignored the play action in that palyoff game as well

http://espn.go.com/n...e/nyj/year/2002 If you look at that seasaon the only recevers we had were Coles Chrebet and Moss and the only two players on offense that really did anything worth a crap was Pennington and Coles Martin was Meh with barely 1100 yards same amount Shonn Greene got ripped for this year.

The Jets entire offense was exposed and the Jets did nothing to fix is in the following years. Not one single thing. Like I said the Jets Subtracted Talent and they had that beast of a TE Anthony Becht. All the Jets had to do was add some explosive talent and Pennington would have gotten them the ball because even with this cast of misfits he still; completed near 70 % of his passes. if a QB gets the ball to his playmakers thats really all you can ask for. The Jets blew it just like they blow everything and just like they are totally mishandlinf Sanchez as we speak with Jailbirds drunks and castoffs. Its a freakin joke if you ask me and has been steadily going down the drain since Parcells took us out of the sh*thole of 96

[Klecko73isGod]

glad to see the homo-erotic gangs back together.

you're doing gods work.

Speaking of homo-erotic gangs:

[slats]

Santana Moss hardly played that year it was his first real year of action and he was hurt for most of it with hammy injuries. All the Jets had at the WR position was Coles and Chrebet and Chrebet was totally out of his comfort zone playing WR he was a known slot receiver and did not have the speed to get separation as a wideout . The Jets had the perfect combo with Keyshawn at WR and Chrebet in the slot and they let Keyshawn go.

Using a receiver like Moss to make your point is silly and trying to make the Jets talent look good and the QB look bad is not much better.

Solid running game ? 101 yards per game ? Part of the reason the raiders totally ignored the play action in that palyoff game as well

Santana Moss was the Jets leading receiver in the Raiders playoff game. He also had a couple rushes. He was healthy that day. Chrebet was in his slot position.

The Jets rushed for 120 yards (5 ypc) against the Raiders in that game, while Pennington only managed to throw for 167 (or a paltry 3.3 ypp). This against a defense that was strong against the run all season, but weak against the pass.

The Jets certainly made some questionable moves under Bradway over the next few years, but that's just making excuses for a guy who never once lived up to his previous hype after that particular performance. The Raiders had his number that day, the rest of the league had his number for the rest of his career.

[ZachEY]

Smash, you're doing the exact same thing with Sanchez as with Pennington.

You once made an argument about Sanchez's first three games being the 'real' Sanchez, just like Pennington's 2002 season being the real Pennington.

It reminds me a lot of a baseball player, be it a pitcher or a position player, who either comes down and mows down the competition or hits the cover off the ball. Then, the book is written on that player, and the opponents find the flaws and exploit them. As a Met fan, I remember this distinctly with Timo Perez. I thought this guy was gonna be a super star. He came out with extra base hits left and right. Then, opposing pitchers learned that he couldn't hit a high fastball to save his life, and then he faded back into obscurity.

And, what's worse, Sanchez didn't 'mow down' anything early in his career if you actually watch the tape. But, nostalgia and hope persevere.

[Smashmouth]

Smash, you're doing the exact same thing with Sanchez as with Pennington.

You once made an argument about Sanchez's first three games being the 'real' Sanchez, just like Pennington's 2002 season being the real Pennington.

It reminds me a lot of a baseball player, be it a pitcher or a position player, who either comes down and mows down the competition or hits the cover off the ball. Then, the book is written on that player, and the opponents find the flaws and exploit them. As a Met fan, I remember this distinctly with Timo Perez. I thought this guy was gonna be a super star. He came out with extra base hits left and right. Then, opposing pitchers learned that he couldn't hit a high fastball to save his life, and then he faded back into obscurity.

And, what's worse, Sanchez didn't 'mow down' anything early in his career if you actually watch the tape. But, nostalgia and hope persevere.

EY you are right I am doing the same thing, but I have been bashing the offensive talent of this team for about 12 years now, you know that.

Im consistent in my view the Jets have lacked talent and the QB takes the blame. I also happen to think Both Penny and Sanchez are talented QB's , different types of talent for sure but I think the Jets have been consistent in mishandling QB for years now. We are continuing an arguement that really cant be solved its really just a matter of opinion. I just feel some posters take it to a ridiculous level. Pennington was not terrible

I like your baseball analogy though its just like the Yankees of the past 7+ years who feast on the scrub pitching all year long but come playoff time they get shut down by the better pitchers they face in the playoffs.

[ZachEY]

The Jets certainly made some questionable moves under Bradway over the next few years, but that's just making excuses for a guy who never once lived up to his previous hype after that particular performance. The Raiders had his number that day, the rest of the league had his number for the rest of his career.

This!

Saying Pennington isn't good doesn't mean Herm and Bradway did a great job around him. It's just an evaluation of how he plays his position. Which is not well.

I think every single QB in the NFL has the talent to succeed in the perfect situation. They're in the National Football League for a reason. Unfortunately, there is rarely an ideal situation due to the salary cap. The great QBs are successful with what they have. Pennington and Sanchez have not had perfect situations surrounding them, however, they've had situations that were good enough for them to be successful if they were better QBs. That's the crux of all of the anti-Pennington/anti-Sanchez arguments. It's a recognition that the situation will never be perfect, so you need a QB that can elevate his game when necessary. We never saw that from Pennington and we've yet to see that from Sanchez. Both QB's needed everything to be perfect around them to succeed. Both QB's came up microscopically small in their toughest tests. Good QB's overcome this, and the best evidence any of us have is watching how surrounding talent does in other situations. Like, how Deon Branch's career pretty much ended when he left Tom Brady. Or, how Moss became a Probowler after leaving Pennington. Or, how (regardless of your opinion on him previously) Santonio Holmes went from Super Bowl MVP and a league leader in YPC to the player he's been on the Jets.

Every argument for Sanchez and Pennington being good QB's comes with hundreds 'ifs', hypotheticals, and excuses. Every argument against looks at results, both statistically and visually.

[ZachEY]

EY you are right I am doing the same thing, but I have been bashing the offensive talent of this team for about 12 years now, you know that.

Im consistent in my view the Jets have lacked talent and the QB takes the blame. I also happen to think Both Penny and Sanchez are talented QB's , different types of talent for sure but I think the Jets have been consistent in mishandling QB for years now. We are continuing an arguement that really cant be solved its really just a matter of opinion. I just feel some posters take it to a ridiculous level. Pennington was not terrible

I like your baseball analogy though its just like the Yankees of the past 7+ years who feast on the scrub pitching all year long but come playoff time they get shut down by the better pitchers they face in the playoffs.

You have been consistent. And, it's not that I don't agree that we could use upgrades in talent. We could. However, we've seen both QB's flounder with league leading running games. Or, at least Sanchez had that and Pennington had the league leading rusher. Still, they came up small when the team needed them. We've also seen Brady succeed with a slew of different WRs and both Mannings do the same. We've seen Big Ben go through a ton of WRs as well. We've seen Brees with a variety of different WRs as well. Not all of them were elite. These QBs succeed with what they have.

There is no perfect situation in the NFL. It doesn't exist. It took Manning forever to win because he was trying to do so without a defense. However, we see it every single year in the NFL, good QBs elevate to beat mediocre ones. Last year Flacco and Smith played 'well enough' in the conference championships... maybe. But, when things didn't go perfectly, as they rarely do for a 60 minute game, especially against a great team, these QB's couldn't elevate their game and play 'well enough' to get the job done. Those games were the perfect example for me. Mistakes happen over the course of a game. Good QB's overcome them. Bad ones do not. In both games, the better team lost... The better QB won.

For me, I'll continue to be unhappy at the position until we have 'the better QB'.

[Smashmouth]

I say we kill the next poster who starts a Chad Thread .

We will never agree on this, its been years, sometimes we even get a little heated its just not worth it anymore.

Now Max will go undercover and make crazy Chad threads

[CTM]

Pennington is the worst QB in the history of the NFL.

[Matt39]

Sanchez isnt a good QB, but the personnel on this offense this season is atrocious.

Year 1- rookie season, hiccups, didnt play a lot in college. Understandable first year and then plays decently in the playoffs.

Year 2- Nice start, struggles a bit when Holmes comes aboard, overall a decent second year. Plays well in the playoffs again.

Year 3- Personnell on offense takes a huge step back. Slow WR's, loss of Damien Woody, starting a sh*tty running back who cant do anything on his own. Awful year all around.

This year we are basically setting Sanchez up to suck considering its practically the same offense.

[slats]

It reminds me a lot of a baseball player, be it a pitcher or a position player, who either comes down and mows down the competition or hits the cover off the ball. Then, the book is written on that player, and the opponents find the flaws and exploit them.

This is my concern with Tebow. He had a nice run there, but the league seemed to catch up with him by the time the season was over.

[ZachEY]

This is my concern with Tebow. He had a nice run there, but the league seemed to catch up with him by the time the season was over.

Concern? I thought that was offensively obvious... No?

[SMC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfGWPpPy0uw

[RutgersJetFan]

I mean sure, I gotta relive Pennington in this thread, why not bring up Timo Perez too.

[RutgersJetFan]

Real life lol. Can't stop laughing.

I've been holding on to that one for a few weeks to be honest. Was waiting for something that could be even line 20% relevant. Yay me.

[Bleedin Green]

So let me take a wild guess pass rushers bother QB's ? Right ? But when the Raiders of 02 beat the daylights out of Chad hes exposed ? This clears everything up now.

People always seem top point at the Talent of the players around Brady but he had WAY more talent than Chad ever dreamed of having . Sure in his early years it was nothing great (before they started adding playerss like Welker and Moss and in later years Gronk and Hernandez) But it was very clear great defense and managed offense won those SB's not incerdible QB play. Once Brady started getting superior talent arond him his nimbers didnt just go up they sky rocketed.

Bash Chad all you want he played his entire career with sub par JAGS and never ever had a TE to speak of either. He had 2 WR's who could not get any separation and this is what the Raiders and other teams exposed

Yeah, those 2 Pro Bowlers along with the guy who's second on the Jets all-time receptions list sure did suck at WR. They're obviously the reason Pennington was such a spineless loser who folded like a cheap suit every time he played a defense worth a damn. It's good to see that after all of these years, you're still committed to your stance, no matter how horribly wrong you've been proven.

[shawn306]

I hope someday I can hate Tebow as much as some hate Pennington.

[Bleedin Green]

And smash, if you want to come up with excuses as to why the Raiders game supposedly proved nothing (and apparently it's just a coincidence he never came close to reaching his level of play in 2002 again throughout his career), at what point after that do you run out of excuses? Why don't you tell us why Chad wasn't at fault for his horrendous play in the 2004 divisional game against the Steelers? There can be no argument made that the rest of team didn't more than carry their weight (both the defense and special teams contributed a touchdown each) and before you bring up the old Doug Brien excuse, I'd love to hear you explain how it's acceptable for a QB to lead his team to 3 points in the first 57 minutes of the game (and a grand total of 6 even if Brien does hit that FG). What about the Patriots playoff game two years later? The Ravens playoff game when he was with the Dolphins after that? If it's all just a coincidence and has nothing to do with him, then these issues shouldn't be following him around in every big game he played on every team.

The bottom line is simple, and this really holds true for any argument on any topic; when there's nothing quantifiable to support your argument, and the only things you have as a defense are a list of excuses, the chances are you're just wrong.

[Bleedin Green]

I hope someday I can hate Tebow as much as some hate Pennington.

That will be difficult to accomplish, as I seriously doubt this team makes us suffer through as many years of Tebow as they made us of Chad.

[ZachEY]

I mean sure, I gotta relive Pennington in this thread, why not bring up Timo Perez too.

You're welcome.

[SMC]

Chad Pennington Era

43-53 regular season (-10) (.447 winning percentage)

2-3 postseason

Post-Chad Pennington Era

37-27 regular season (+10) (.578 winning percentage)

4-2 postseason

[CTM]

Chad Pennington is a horrible human being, worst to ever suit up in the NFL

[GREENBEAN]

Keep in mind we dumped Chad he didnt want out . Did you expect him not to go to another team ?

Not at all. I think you misunderstood me. I was merely commenting on the fact that he was a dolphin now and to have him being a "tutor" to our Qb's is a little absurd to me. He's still affiliated with another team to a degree.

[Jet-T's]

"Mark, pssst, c'mere. Yeah. Listen, you wanna keep your job? Get that completion percentage up. People looooooove completion percentage. You go 9 for 10, it doesn't matter how many yards it's for--people are gonna talk about that 9 for 10, man. Let the other guy throw it down the field. That's low percentage. You wanna be high percentage. You feel me?"

lol

[Jet-T's]

While a major story line during training camp has been whether Sanchez and Tebow will be able to co-exist, Pennington has no doubts that the two QB's will be able to do so. He also doesn't think Sanchez will have his rhythm affected — something WR Santonio Holmes suggested could be the downfall of a two-QB system.

"I think that's selfish," Pennington said. "If you think as a QB this game is solely about you, I think you're sadly mistaken.

This is the greatest team game ever invented.

For a QB to gripe about whether he's getting in rhythm or not ... grab the football and make a play.

"That's what it's about."

[REAMDE]

Chad Pennington is a horrible human being, worst to ever suit up in the NFL

You read the study from the Deadspin article on MNF right?

[CTM]

You read the study from the Deadspin article on MNF right?

Not sure, link?

[REAMDE]

Not sure, link?

http://deadspin.com/5934440/the-circadian-advantage-how-sleep-patterns-benefit-certain-nfl-teams

http://www.journalsleep.org/Articles/200507.pdf

West Coast teams playing on East Coast on Monday night cover over 72% 1970-present.