whodeawhodat Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 If Idzik has this year's #13 pick in mind, then next year's 1&2 is way too low. When trading future picks, the general rule is that a pick next year is worth one round lower than a pick this year. So that 1&2 has a value of 2&3. I think the Jets would have to get a minimum of this year's #2 from the Buc in addition to those two picks to get Idzik to bite. I was going to say that he should ask for this years 2nd and settle for their third in addition to 1 and 2 next year. From what the experts say, this draft has good value throught the middle rounds. maybe this years 2 and 3 along with next years 1st would be even better? I really like next years first because we could use it to move up for a (crosses fingers) franchise QB. That is if it is possible for us to move up in next years draft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 If Idzik has this year's #13 pick in mind, then next year's 1&2 is way too low. When trading future picks, the general rule is that a pick next year is worth one round lower than a pick this year. So that 1&2 has a value of 2&3. I think the Jets would have to get a minimum of this year's #2 from the Buc in addition to those two picks to get Idzik to bite. Is the first part of this mitigated by the perception that next year is supposed to be a much better draft for QB's and we need one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Is the first part of this mitigated by the perception that next year is supposed to be a much better draft for QB's and we need one? No one knows what the QB situation will actually be next year. You can't take a poor deal based on the hope that you'll be able to trade up for a QB who may or may not be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 No one knows what the QB situation will actually be next year. You can't take a poor deal based on the hope that you'll be able to trade up for a QB who may or may not be there. One could argue that Revis' knee is at least as big a question mark as next year's QB situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 One could argue that Revis' knee is at least as big a question mark as next year's QB situation. Let Tampa argue that. Idzik needs to get as much for Revis as possible, and that means more than a #1 & 2 next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Let Tampa argue that. Idzik needs to get as much for Revis as possible, and that means more than a #1 & 2 next year. Or nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Or nothing? The Bucs can get nothing too if they don't trade for Revis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAD_Brooklyn Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 On the other hand, you can look at their record last year and say definitively that there are 4-5 games that they probably would have won if they had Dashon Goldson and a healthy Revis and I'm not even counting the Broncos game that they lost by eight. That would put them at 11-5 or 12-4 and with that record alone, you have a shot at making a deep run in the playoffs. Combine this with the idea that they really were impossible to run on (3.5 a carry yielded) and horrific against the pass, you'd have to assume the addition of those two players would make a world of difference on their defense (Revis alone changes our defense entirely), leaving them in less situations where their offense will HAVE to extend itself and put the ball in Freeman's hands to go out and win a game. They can rely on the run a little more (Doug Martin, beast) than they had to last year and also would not be in as many obvious passing situations. Yeah, Freeman's turnovers are comparable to Sanchez, but he also threw 27 tds and had a YPA a full yard better than Sanchez. Toss in the fact that Barron will be in his second year and that defense can be scary good. Oh, and they get Carl Nicks and Davin Joseph back, both Pro Bowlers. I don't believe that it would be time to prescribe meds to their front office if they believed that they at least had a shot at a Super Bowl. It's their job to be optimistic and if they can't make a run with all of these pieces in place, then when can they allow themselves to believe they can make a run? There are no perfect teams in today's NFL and they can be just as imperfectly good as anyone. Hell, we almost made the Super Bowl twice with Mark Sanchez and not nearly as good a receiving corp or running back as the Bucs have now. Well, well thought out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Well, well thought out. Thank you, Mr. Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 2014 first and second is a good deal, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 2014 1st and 2nd with no picks this year is, in fact, not a good deal. That's the equivalent of a 2013 2nd and 3rd. Not even close. No dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen X Jet Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Peter king, Peter King, Peter King can eat a big fat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayKwaz Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I will take a second this year along with a first and second next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I will take a second this year along with a first and second next year. That's the closest in the still short group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damaged89 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 2014 1st and 2nd with no picks this year is, in fact, not a good deal. That's the equivalent of a 2013 2nd and 3rd. Not even close. No dice. Why is this? I would rather hang on to Revis, but this line of thinking doesn't make any sense. It is actually better than a 2013 2nd and 3rd because a 1st and 2nd> a 2nd and 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Why is this? I would rather hang on to Revis, but this line of thinking doesn't make any sense. It is actually better than a 2013 2nd and 3rd because a 1st and 2nd> a 2nd and 3rd. Theoretically when making trades, a pick this year is worth a pick 1 round higher next year. NE has done it a bunch of times recently. Except let's see next month how many teams are able to trade a #2 in a weak 2013 draft for a #1 in a stronger 2014 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 2014 1st and 2nd with no picks this year is, in fact, not a good deal. That's the equivalent of a 2013 2nd and 3rd. Not even close. No dice. It is this type of absolute thinking, without basis quantification, that draws some fans into analysis paralysis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 It is this type of absolute thinking, without basis quantification, that draws some fans into analysis paralysis Weird how that's not said when calling it a good deal despite it being fairly common to value future picks as a round lower. We're not even sure if 2014 is a better draft beyond maybe having Clowney/Bridgewater at the tippy top. Seems like typical Jets fan "grass is always greener" think to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Weird how that's not said when calling it a good deal despite it being fairly common to value future picks as a round lower. We're not even sure if 2014 is a better draft beyond maybe having Clowney/Bridgewater at the tippy top. Seems like typical Jets fan "grass is always greener" think to me. There do not have to be absolutes. Idzik should be given every chance to play out his plan, and then see how it turns out. Value charts be damned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 There do not have to be absolutes. Idzik should be given every chance to play out his plan, and then see how it turns out. Value charts be damned. Ah, basis quantification be damned if I have to come up with it! I don't mind Idzik's plan so far. He seems to agree with my thinking that Revis for anything less than a king's ransom that results in a QB is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Ah, basis quantification be damned if I have to come up with it! I don't mind Idzik's plan so far. He seems to agree with my thinking that Revis for anything less than a king's ransom that results in a QB is pointless. That's not really a "plan," per se. He'd have better luck rubbing a lamp and hoping for a genie. Gato Plan: 1. Trade Revis 2. ????????? 3. Great QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 so who leaked this and why ? all I can come up with is revis' camp. they want to get paid, so they want people to start telling the jets to just take the deal or pay the player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Actually thats the most on boards plan. The Gato plan A involves keeping Revis, drafting an offense, and making key 2014 (Harris, Holmes, Sanchez) cuts to save chunks of payroll. Lars, those would be the two options yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Actually thats the most on boards plan. The Gato plan A involves keeping Revis. Lars, those would be the two options yes. the only thing revis camp fears is having to play this year with no extension and risking another injury or holding out after an injury. that would be epic douchiness and nobody in the nfl would want the guy on their team. I think idzik knows this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Actually thats the most on boards plan. The Gato plan A involves keeping Revis. Lars, those would be the two options yes. I think most Jets fans would like to keep Revis, but most Jets fans are resigned to the idea that's not going to happen. When you survey the landscape between this year and next, the only top(seeming) QB available will be Teddy Bridgewater, who will likely be a top-three pick. The 2013 Jets don't need to trade Revis to earn a top-three pick, because they'll suck with or without him. The realistic expectation from trading Revis is that Idzik uses those picks to upgrade two or three other positions, even as you take a step back at one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 the only thing revis camp fears is having to play this year with no extension and risking another injury or holding out after an injury. that would be epic douchiness and nobody in the nfl would want the guy on their team. I think idzik knows this I think both sides know this which is the tension is so high now rather than later. Jets don't want to bang Revis, they just want long term value somehow (trade or extension) out of a situation where they can lose an elite for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 the only thing revis camp fears is having to play this year with no extension and risking another injury or holding out after an injury. that would be epic douchiness and nobody in the nfl would want the guy on their team. I think idzik knows this I'd rather the Jets don't do that because they could end up with nothing (other than 1 year of Revis at $6M in a rebuild year + basically the #1 pick in round 4 two years from now), but why is it epic douchiness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 screw the 13th pick this year. too many questionable players in the top of '13 draft. negotiate '13 2nd,3th,and 4th plus '14 1st OR '13 3rd and 4th plus '14 1st and 2nd. i hear alot of people saying that there is not much diference in '13 between picks10 thr 25 and alot of talent in rounds 2 thru 4. if izzy hits on his first 4 rounds this year and next,the rebuild is complete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Most Jets fans are resigned to a lot of worst case scenarios. They mean NOTHING! NOOOOOOTHING! If the 2013 Jets don't need to trade Revis to land another underclassmen QB then you don't trade Revis. Simple. Idzik can use the picks he has now and next year, when you say the Jets will lose no matter what (one of those resigned to things that the universe doesn't care about), to make the roster cheaper, younger, and faster. He can use the plenty of cap space freed up over the next two years to fill in the roster with smart signings that a good analytical GM should be able to make and find in the NFL. If he's as smart as he is he's well aware of the team's cap situation in the next few years and not too worried about burdening his roster with an elite player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Jet Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 2014 1st and 2nd with no picks this year is, in fact, not a good deal. That's the equivalent of a 2013 2nd and 3rd. Not even close. No dice. I'd say we have to have one pick this year. I'm OK with the 1st being in 2014 but I'd like to see a 2nd or 3rd this year. IMO we have got to get SOMETHING for Revis now. I can't see him resigning with us after all the BS that's gone down with him. If I were him there's no way I'd resign with the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I'd say we have to have one pick this year. I'm OK with the 1st being in 2014 but I'd like to see a 2nd or 3rd this year. IMO we have got to get SOMETHING for Revis now. I can't see him resigning with us after all the BS that's gone down with him. If I were him there's no way I'd resign with the Jets. He certainly doesn't want to play out the year for another $3M (using the Revis conversion chart, bonus money won't count anymore because in September it will have been in the past). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I'd rather the Jets don't do that because they could end up with nothing (other than 1 year of Revis at $6M in a rebuild year + basically the #1 pick in round 4 two years from now), but why is it epic douchiness? on revis' part, holding out after missing 13 games would be very douchy. he's waaaay beyond the 2009 career year, and a knee injury for a corner is very serious. I am all for the players maxing out their short careers, but he has been given plenty in bonuses he always forgets about. if i'm not mistaken he has 3 years left, but it is his option to become UFA next season ? so if he got hurt, he would still be technically under contract ? all I'm trying to say is these leaks are probably coming from his people, and he doesn't have all the leverage. there is a scenario he doesn't want, and its going into this season with no new deal. the corner market this year must have been a huge bummer for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 on revis' part, holding out after missing 13 games would be very douchy. he's waaaay beyond the 2009 career year, and a knee injury for a corner is very serious. I am all for the players maxing out their short careers, but he has been given plenty in bonuses he always forgets about. if i'm not mistaken he has 3 years left, but it is his option to become UFA next season ? so if he got hurt, he would still be technically under contract ? all I'm trying to say is these leaks are probably coming from his people, and he doesn't have all the leverage. there is a scenario he doesn't want, and its going into this season with no new deal. the corner market this year must have been a huge bummer for him. Oh, I thought you meant it would be dooshy of the Jets to let him play out his contract. He wouldn't hold out. It adds 3 more cheap years. If there is in fact a lot of truth to the idea that trading him is because of a personal thing with Woody, then Woody would be thrilled to let him rot out the rest of his prime playing years in a holdout and he can be free from the Jets for the 2017 season when he's 32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Oh, I thought you meant it would be dooshy of the Jets to let him play out his contract. He wouldn't hold out. It adds 3 more cheap years. If there is in fact a lot of truth to the idea that trading him is because of a personal thing with Woody, then Woody would be thrilled to let him rot out the rest of his prime playing years in a holdout and he can be free from the Jets for the 2017 season when he's 32. txs. this is like a sopa opera. i would love to be able to listen to the negitiations. when i was a headhunter I laid a 2 minute "pregnant pause" on a scummy hosp admin who was trying to cheat me out of money. he caved. I love this stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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