Colon is key to O-Line

[whodeawhodat]

Watched the 2nd preseason game again last night and boyitellya.  Big Nasty, as he is known, sure likes to hit.  He has an edge that I havent seen on one of our OL in quite a while.  Hope he can stay healthy because I like the mentality he brings.  Good pick up for Idzik if he can keep playing at this pace.

[flgreen]

It's also the key to staying regular

[bitonti]

huge diff between the line's play against DET, compared to JAC. They were much better. Colon had 2 penalties in game 1, zero in game 2. also check out this peterman block on Powell's big play.

 

 

http://www.ganggreennation.com/2013/8/19/4638338/jacksonville-jaguars-at-new-york-jets-gif-breakdown

[JiFtheOracle]

huge diff between the line's play against DET, compared to JAC. They were much better. Colon had 2 penalties in game 1, zero in game 2. also check out this peterman block on Powell's big play.

 

 

http://www.ganggreennation.com/2013/8/19/4638338/jacksonville-jaguars-at-new-york-jets-gif-breakdown

 

Nice...I thought that was Vlad.   Glad you posted it.

[whodeawhodat]

huge diff between the line's play against DET, compared to JAC. They were much better. Colon had 2 penalties in game 1, zero in game 2. also check out this peterman block on Powell's big play.

 

 

http://www.ganggreennation.com/2013/8/19/4638338/jacksonville-jaguars-at-new-york-jets-gif-breakdown

 

in that GIF you can see Colon throw the Nose to the ground. It looks as if the RT chipped him but I dont think he did more than put a hand on him.  Like I said, big nasty.  Hope that Vlad has really turned the corner.  Is it possible that it took him until year 3 for the light to go off and him to get it?  I know he was a project but...

[bitonti]

  Hope that Vlad has really turned the corner.  Is it possible that it took him until year 3 for the light to go off and him to get it?  I know he was a project but...

 

People have been unfairly bashing Vlad for years. Even when he was "bad" he wasn't a gholston level bust. He played alot over the last few years and last year especially they were basically rotating him and Slauson.  To answer your question, considering he was born in Haiti, lived there until he was 14, it is possible for him to turn it on year 4. 

[Bleedin Green]

People have been unfairly bashing Vlad for years. Even when he was "bad" he wasn't a gholston level bust. He played alot over the last few years and last year especially they were basically rotating him and Slauson.  To answer your question, considering he was born in Haiti, lived there until he was 14, it is possible for him to turn it on year 4. 

 

So I see you're apparently starting to feel a bit better about the prospects of the Jets OL this year, huh?  That's a nice change to see.

[bitonti]

So I see you're apparently starting to feel a bit better about the prospects of the Jets OL this year, huh?  That's a nice change to see.

 

 

not really. the line played terrible against DET and good against JAC. They still aren't as good as last season.

 

But with an actual passing offense, they might not need to be.

 

Look at teams like GB, DET and ATL they have awful OL (much worse than NYJ) but still put up tons of points throwing the ball. 

 

in other words the connection between having a good OL and a good offense is not as straightforward as it used to be.

[Greenseed4]

^ don't take the bait, Bit. 

 

Our OL can be beastly this year. 

[flgreen]

Ducasse hoping to make most of final chance with Jets

• By HOWIE KUSSOY
• Posted: 4:32 PM, August 21, 2013

Anthony J Causi

Vladimir Ducasse.

 

It was 2010 and first-year Jets Mark Sanchez and Rex Ryan had just led the team to their first AFC Championship game appearance in 11 years.

 

That spring, the Jets selected offensive lineman Vladimir Ducasse in the second round to help protect Sanchez, who appeared to be the franchise quarterback the team had longed for since Joe Namath left Broadway.

 

Just over three years later, Ryan may be entering his final season as coach and Sanchez is battling with a new potential franchise quarterback – Geno Smith – for the starting job, while Ducasse has never had the opportunity to do what the team drafted him to do.

And the much-maligned lineman may be seeing his final chance this season as well.

 

In three seasons, Ducasse has started one game, but the Haitian-born big man has impressed Ryan during training camp and the preseason, and could be in consideration to open the season starting at left guard.

 

“There’s no question that Vlad’s pushing for that,” Ryan said after Wednesday’s practice. “I think this is where you wanted him when you drafted him. You might’ve wanted him a year before, but this is where he’s at now. He looks pretty good to me.”

 

On Wednesday, Ducasse practiced at left guard with the first team, while Stephen Peterman played center with the second-unit. Ryan said that rotation was used so he could see both players at both positions, but his confidence in Ducasse peaked with his performance in Saturday’s preseason game against Jacksonville, in which he played left guard, right guard and right tackle.

 

Ducasse, 25, said that while he would’ve liked more opportunities in the past, it is not something that bothers him now. Where he was drafted is not a concern and neither is what position he plays or even if he starts. He just wants to play. He just wants to be the difference-maker he was drafted to be.

 

“Over the years, I’ve definitely gotten more comfortable,” said Ducasse. “The more comfortable I’ve been, the better I’ve played. If the opportunity to start presents itself, I’m gonna go and grab it.”

 

Read more: Ducasse hoping to make most of final chance with Jets http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/jetsblog/ducasse_hoping_to_make_most_of_final_nhSwyogBiCsklAFong353N#ixzz2cdhCOOGx

[Larz]

I think he is a lg. Solid pass protector but

Gets little push in the power run game

I tried to watch him a lot in jags game

Hes better than I thought

[jorge o8]

sorry but i saw him geting beat like a drum   when mack was out there dont like him .needs to get much better  ASAP!!!

[SenorGato]

How's Vlad doing? 

[jbone]

I think he is a lg. Solid pass protector but

Gets little push in the power run game

I tried to watch him a lot in jags game

Hes better than I thought

Playing against the Jags tends to make a lot of players look better than they are in reality.

[Bleedin Green]

not really. the line played terrible against DET and good against JAC. They still aren't as good as last season.

 

But with an actual passing offense, they might not need to be.

 

Look at teams like GB, DET and ATL they have awful OL (much worse than NYJ) but still put up tons of points throwing the ball. 

 

in other words the connection between having a good OL and a good offense is not as straightforward as it used to be.

Oh yeah, I don't disagree with this current assessment, I'm just saying there's a difference between "still aren't as good as last season" and the prior position you took of the Jets' OL situation.  Just last week you were telling me how awful Peterman was and that Ducasse was now a complete bust, but are now making a point of acknowledging the successful contributions of Peterman and going back to your original position (which I had noted to you at the time) of Ducasse splitting time with, and apparently being no worse than, Slauson.

 

If I'm understanding your current position, it would seem you now believe that the Jets only significant difference from last season would be whatever drop-off in play exists between Colon and a now-retired Moore, right?  Also consider that doesn't even account for any improvements that could come on that side of the line from a more experienced Howard.  Not to say they won't see a dropoff, I'm just not sure how significant.

[JiFtheOracle]

People have been unfairly bashing Vlad for years. Even when he was "bad" he wasn't a gholston level bust. He played alot over the last few years and last year especially they were basically rotating him and Slauson.  To answer your question, considering he was born in Haiti, lived there until he was 14, it is possible for him to turn it on year 4. 

 

lolwut?

 

He was a 2nd round pick who took 3 years to see the field, in limited fashion and has been a liability for the most of his career.  He couldnt unseat a 7th round pick.

 

I think the criticism of Vlad is extremely fair.  Is he turning the corner in year 4?  Hopefully, but preseason doesnt tell much.

 

Is he your next terrible player project that you'll defend for no reason until the cows come home? 

[Jetsfan80]

lolwut?

 

He was a 2nd round pick who took 3 years to see the field, in limited fashion and has been a liability for the most of his career.  He couldnt unseat a 7th round pick.

 

I think the criticism of Vlad is extremely fair.  Is he turning the corner in year 4?  Hopefully, but preseason doesnt tell much.

 

Is he your next terrible player project that you'll defend for no reason until the cows come home? 

 

The blame falls on Tannenbaum and company for having a 1st round grade on a raw guard prospect in the 1st place.  It's hard for me to HATE Ducasse like I did, say, Vernon Gholston. 

[JiFtheOracle]

The blame falls on Tannenbaum and company for having a 1st round grade on a raw guard prospect in the 1st place.  It's hard for me to HATE Ducasse like I did, say, Vernon Gholston. 

 

I dont buy the whole, "we had a first round grade" sh*t we've heard from the Tanny regime.  They said the same thing about Greene and others.  Dont buy it.  I think it was a way to try and make themselves act like they were draft experts getting the steal of the draft or justifying trading picks to move up...but maybe thats just me hoping that people that do this for a living arent that terrible at their jobs.

[bitonti]

Oh yeah, I don't disagree with this current assessment, I'm just saying there's a difference between "still aren't as good as last season" and the prior position you took of the Jets' OL situation.  Just last week you were telling me how awful Peterman was and that Ducasse was now a complete bust, but are now making a point of acknowledging the successful contributions of Peterman and going back to your original position (which I had noted to you at the time) of Ducasse splitting time with, and apparently being no worse than, Slauson.

 

If I'm understanding your current position, it would seem you now believe that the Jets only significant difference from last season would be whatever drop-off in play exists between Colon and a now-retired Moore, right?  Also consider that doesn't even account for any improvements that could come on that side of the line from a more experienced Howard.  Not to say they won't see a dropoff, I'm just not sure how significant.

 

What a difference a week makes. You saw the DET game right? is JAC DL as good as DET? They will struggle with top talent. 

My position from the beginning is this used to be a top 5 line (as recently as last year), it's now a top 16 line (average). The loss of cohesion losing Brandon Moore and Slauson and replacing them both with players who never played that position before is gonna be felt. Colon likely will get hurt. It's not if it's when. He's played 12 of the last 48 possible regular season games. When that happens they will probably be screwed, even healthy he's week to week, one week he's a penalty machine, the next he's big nasty. The line is definately worse the question is can the QB play overcome it? 

[Jetsfan80]

What a difference a week makes. You saw the DET game right? is JAC DL as good as DET? They will struggle with top talent. 

My position from the beginning is this used to be a top 5 line (as recently as last year), it's now a top 16 line (average). The loss of cohesion losing Brandon Moore and Slauson and replacing them both with players who never played that position before is gonna be felt. Colon likely will get hurt. It's not if it's when. He's played 12 of the last 48 possible regular season games. When that happens they will probably be screwed, even healthy he's week to week, one week he's a penalty machine, the next he's big nasty. The line is definately worse the question is can the QB play overcome it? 

 

But you're ignoring that losing Moore and Slauson aren't big losses.  Moore was old and done.  Slauson was a stop-gap type that we were lucky to get the most out of after taking him in the 6th round as a project guy.  Winters is nasty and will should be the real deal.  Oday Aboushi is raw but we'll see.  And Colon/Peterman are not permanent solutions. 

 

We're better off on the offensive line, even in 2013, than we were last year, and we should be really good in 2014 and beyond.

[Stonehands]

When I see Vlad getting time at Left Guard, I am left wondering if this is Rex stacking the deck against Geno.

[whodeawhodat]

I would be more suprised if Vlad has a decent season than if Sanchez has a decent season.  That is how far off I have written Vlad.  That being being said, I hope I am surprised.  Is it possible that with winters back practicing that Vlad could jump over him and peterman?  wow. that would be quite a jump considering I have yet to see a mock 53 man roster with VLAD on it.

[bitonti]

But you're ignoring that losing Moore and Slauson aren't big losses.  

 

We're better off on the offensive line, even in 2013, than we were last year, and we should be really good in 2014 and beyond.

 

offensive line is the sum of 5 players, playing together. Brandon Moore played next to Nick Mangold for 7 years. Slauson for 4.  When you lose that cohesion, and replace it with players who never manned those spots in NFL games, the quality will suffer.

 

the difference is that past offenses asked the OL to open up huge holes even though the D knew it was coming, the new offense is shotgun heavy and running is more like draws and short screen passes. You don't need a HOF quality line to run that offense. 

[dbatesman]

the difference is that past offenses asked the OL to open up huge holes even though the D knew it was coming, the new offense is shotgun heavy and running is more like draws and short screen passes. You don't need a HOF quality line to run that offense.

So even if the OL plays well, it's not actually good, you guys. 

[faba]

Let me get this straight- we can have a mediocre offensive line but rack up points because of the offense scheme we are going to use? Man we should have done this 5 years ago

[Bleedin Green]

offensive line is the sum of 5 players, playing together. Brandon Moore played next to Nick Mangold for 7 years. Slauson for 4.  When you lose that cohesion, and replace it with players who never manned those spots in NFL games, the quality will suffer.

 

the difference is that past offenses asked the OL to open up huge holes even though the D knew it was coming, the new offense is shotgun heavy and running is more like draws and short screen passes. You don't need a HOF quality line to run that offense. 

 

Based on your other posts about Vlad, would you not say that if he ends up playing LG the cohesion at that position then becomes a non-issue?  Just curious.

[whodeawhodat]

While I agree about cohesion being one of the top indicators of an OLINE, I think that:

1 having mangold in the middle helps a ton

2 having vets(colon/peterson) as new pieces helps

Mangold is on the record as saying that these 2 new vets see things the same way as him and it only takes them 1 time to see something to get it down.  Seems encoraging. 

[bitonti]

Based on your other posts about Vlad, would you not say that if he ends up playing LG the cohesion at that position then becomes a non-issue?  Just curious.

 

it would be less of an issue sure, because has game experience between Brick and Mangold. Probably 6 full games from last year, if you add up all the series he was on the field. This can be remedied by the way, a few months playing together, they will be fine. Initially I think there might be some issues. The sooner they can get the lineup set, the better. 

[bitonti]

While I agree about cohesion being one of the top indicators of an OLINE, I think that:

1 having mangold in the middle helps a ton

2 having vets(colon/peterson) as new pieces helps

Mangold is on the record as saying that these 2 new vets see things the same way as him and it only takes them 1 time to see something to get it down.  Seems encoraging. 

 

this is a good point, the problem with Peterman is an unhealed foot injury that leaves him playing one-footed out there sometimes. Colon is also injury prone. In other words if these two start the year, id bet money they don't finish it. 

[whodeawhodat]

this is a good point, the problem with Peterman is an unhealed foot injury that leaves him playing one-footed out there sometimes. Colon is also injury prone. In other words if these two start the year, id bet money they don't finish it. 

 

Yeah, peterman, i could live with going down injured although I hope he stays healthy for his own sake.  We have Winters and maybe VLAD @ LG so I think we would be okay.  If Colon goes down I am afraid that we lose that toughness that he has helped to instill so far.  Going against the Gmen's front 7 will be good for us, at least to give us a good test in preseason.  Even if we lose the battle in the trenches we will still come out a better unit, barring injury.

[DJF71]

When I see Vlad getting time at Left Guard, I am left wondering if this is Rex stacking the deck against Geno.

 

I said same thing in another thread.

[Apache 51]

huge diff between the line's play against DET, compared to JAC. They were much better. Colon had 2 penalties in game 1, zero in game 2. also check out this peterman block on Powell's big play.

 

 

http://www.ganggreennation.com/2013/8/19/4638338/jacksonville-jaguars-at-new-york-jets-gif-breakdown

Check out Petermans block, that is the block.

[#27TheDominator]

Check out Petermans block, that is the block.

 

This block is getting a bunch of play, but I don't see the big deal.  It's a good block, but a pulling guard ought to destroy a 240 lb LB.  Especially since the guy is obviously trying to keep the play from going outside. In a bunch of ways, I just see it as sh*tty D.  The DE got sucked in the DT got pancaked and the ILB got sucked way too far inside and is next to the DB who is sucked all the way up.  Peterman did his job, don't get me wrong, but that isn't the OLine equivalent of a circus catch.  I'm actually more impressed with the right side caving in the Jags line. 

[Apache 51]

This block is getting a bunch of play, but I don't see the big deal.  It's a good block, but a pulling guard ought to destroy a 240 lb LB.  Especially since the guy is obviously trying to keep the play from going outside. In a bunch of ways, I just see it as sh*tty D.  The DE got sucked in the DT got pancaked and the ILB got sucked way too far inside and is next to the DB who is sucked all the way up.  Peterman did his job, don't get me wrong, but that isn't the OLine equivalent of a circus catch.  I'm actually more impressed with the right side caving in the Jags line. 

It was the key block  a real RB would have taken it to the house.

[DJF71]

It was the key block  a real RB would have taken it to the house.

Ivory would have taken to house, but Powell is going to make a lot of plays for us this season especially in wildcat.