Everything I am hearing is 2 Horse race: Whisenhunt or Bevel

[Jacked4JetsFB]

let's be honest he's way above average defensively. he's a 3-4 guru who has his own branch on the coaching tree. when guys like Bob Sutton and Mike Pettine experience success it's part of the Rex Ryan (buddy ryan) coaching tree. Jeff Fisher and Mike Munchak are other HC's from that tree. 

 

but all that aside, saying Bevell developed Russell Wilson is neither provable or all that impressive. If he could develop Geno Smith that would be a miracle worker. If he shows up and determines Geno stinks and the need to draft a new QB... well REx can do that.

 

To me a guy who is way above average takes mediocre players and schemes them to a top unit.

 

Terrible players this is impossible, but mediocre with a few good sprinkled in.

 

The past two years his defense has been slightly above average.

 

For all of Rex's time in Baltimore, he had elite talent that won before him and won after him.

 

He had excellent talent with the Jets prior to last year.

 

I have not seen him do anything special defensively this year or last year, and since he has been here his defenses ALWAYS seem to give up the big play at the end of the game.

[ZachEY]

this whole conversation is misguided. There's a reason why coaches make 10x less than QBs. we shouldn't be talking about who to fire to make the Jets better. we should be talking about what players will make the Jets better through draft and FA.

 

cause coaches coach and players play. Firing Idzik doesn't improve this team any more than firing Rex does. But Rex is at least proven to be a great defensive coach. Idzik is proven at nothing. 

 

So, why shouldn't he be a DC?

 

Rex's (vastly overrated) defense has come at the detriment of this team as a whole.  We've invested in it so heavily, brought in first round pick after first round pick, and they're still only "pretty good" at best.  Meanwhile, we have an offense, head coach Rex Ryan's offense, who you'd struggle to make an argument is 2nd worst in the league.

[Jetsfan80]

let's be honest he's way above average defensively. he's a 3-4 guru who has his own branch on the coaching tree. when guys like Bob Sutton and Mike Pettine experience success it's part of the Rex Ryan (buddy ryan) coaching tree. Jeff Fisher and Mike Munchak are other HC's from that tree. 

 

but all that aside, saying Bevell developed Russell Wilson is neither provable or all that impressive. If he could develop Geno Smith that would be a miracle worker. If he shows up and determines Geno stinks and the need to draft a new QB... well REx can do that.

 

Russell Wilson is a rare breed, of this there can be no doubt.  His teammates gush over him so much he could be a cult leader.  He has giant hands and makes plays with his feet.  He's the ultimate game manager, but can launch it too when needed. 

 

But would it be such a horrible idea to pair Idzik with as many people from that Seattle org that took the chance on Wilson and had it pan out? 

 

When it comes to finding the right franchise QB, EVERYTHING comes into play.  From scouting to identifying the QB to developing the QB, it's hard to say what's the most important piece except to say that it is ALL important.  So we need as many competent, offense-minded people as possible to reach that goal.  It's the most important task of any organization, so we'll need to invest in it.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

this whole conversation is misguided. There's a reason why coaches make 10x less than QBs. we shouldn't be talking about who to fire to make the Jets better. we should be talking about what players will make the Jets better through draft and FA.

 

cause coaches coach and players play. Firing Idzik doesn't improve this team any more than firing Rex does. But Rex is at least proven to be a great defensive coach. Idzik is proven at nothing.  if you give Rex or any other HC a better QB,WR etc the team will be better. 

 

Not firing him and giving him another QB, which he has shown zero ability to develop, does not improve this team either.

 

What will improve this team is bringing in someone, anyone, who can identify, and groom a QB.

 

Rex is clearly not that guy.

 

If we could get that guy in here as an OC to work with Rex, fine, but it is very unlikely that someone like that will take an OC job. They will want a HC position.

[Pac]

I also remember him saying that, but because I'm not a moron I also realize that players are also able to be added via free agency and trade: Plaxico Burress, Santonio Holmes

Hand-picked.

Tony Sporano. Hand-picked.

You are outside your mind if you don't think Rex has influenced the hell out of this roster over his 5 years... and naive as sh*t.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Everyone loved getting Holmes for a 5th and plax was being pursued by multiple teams. In fact plax was in san Fran getting ready to visit but cancelled the meeting when the jets called.

Sparano was a disgrace but only lasted a season before getting shown the door.

[#27TheDominator]

Well, I would say there is a rather good chance of that happening. It is going to take a lot to fix this mess.

 

I think at some point next year you need to see signs of hope from the team that better days are ahead. 

 

If they are not 8-8 next year he should be gone. He has a blank slate.  Do something. 

 

I also remember him saying that, but because I'm not a moron I also realize that players are also able to be added via free agency and trade: Plaxico Burress, Santonio Holmes

 

Hand-picked.

 

Tony Sporano. Hand-picked.

 

You are outside your mind if you don't think Rex has influenced the hell out of this roster over his 5 years... and naive as sh*t.

 

Rex "hand picked" these guys now?  Give me a break.  He said those guys were tough when he coached against them.  How dare he!

 

While it's possible to turn this ship around in 1 offseason, I don't think it's likely enough to say that a bad 2014 = Idzik should be fired automatically.  His first offseason was spent cleaning up after Tannenbaum's mistakes.  His 2nd offseason is the massive overload.  Unless your expectation is to get a breakout rookie QB in this draft, or for him to go on some spending spree just to shoot for 8-8, I think you have to give Idzik until the end of the 2015 season at minimum and reevaluate at that time. 

 

What is bad?  If they trend upward he should stay.  Mediocre is okay in year two, but they have to take a step up or he sucks.  If they look like this?  He will have money.  He should spend it.  It is one thing not to handcuff the franchise, quite another to leave all the bullets unchambered. 

[bitonti]

So, why shouldn't he be a DC?

 

Rex's (vastly overrated) defense has come at the detriment of this team as a whole.  We've invested in it so heavily, brought in first round pick after first round pick, and they're still only "pretty good" at best.  Meanwhile, we have an offense, head coach Rex Ryan's offense, who you'd struggle to make an argument is 2nd worst in the league.

 

they've invested heavily on the offense too the difference they mad really bad investments. they are still paying Mark Sanchez and Santonio HOlmes massive salaries. they already fired the guy whose fault it is

[ZachEY]

they've invested heavily on the offense too the difference they mad really bad investments. they are still paying Mark Sanchez and Santonio HOlmes massive salaries. they already fired the guy whose fault it is

 

Not in the draft, which is where any good team improves itself.

 

And they're about to fire the guy who blames his lack of super bowl wins on Santonio Holmes.

[Jetsfan80]

What is bad?  If they trend upward he should stay.  Mediocre is okay in year two, but they have to take a step up or he sucks.  If they look like this?  He will have money.  He should spend it.  It is one thing not to handcuff the franchise, quite another to leave all the bullets unchambered. 

 

I think you answered your own question earlier in the same post:

 

If they are not 8-8 next year he should be gone. He has a blank slate.  Do something. 

 

I don't think "8-8 or better" is a good goal, because that would lead to Tannenbaum-esque decisions.  We need to continue to take the BPA in the draft and take great care with our (many) free agent dollars.  If we do that, it should be OK to say that taking a step back so that we can take a step forward is not a terrible thing.

 

Say we bring in a rookie QB and decide not to throw him out there from Week 1.  We bring in a place-holder QB like, say, a Jason Campbell.  We attempt to revamp the offensive line and bring in new weapons and wait until our young QB is ready.  We start the season 1-5 and then turn to our rookie, who does well but we only finish 6-10.  I can only assume you would NOT support firing Idzik in this scenario.

[#27TheDominator]

I think you answered your own question earlier in the same post:

 

 

I don't think "8-8 or better" is a good goal, because that would lead to Tannenbaum-esque decisions.  We need to continue to take the BPA in the draft and take great care with our (many) free agent dollars.  If we do that, it should be OK to say that taking a step back so that we can take a step forward is not a terrible thing.

 

Say we bring in a rookie QB and decide not to throw him out there from Week 1.  We bring in a place-holder QB like, say, a Jason Campbell.  We attempt to revamp the offensive line and bring in new weapons and wait until our young QB is ready.  We start the season 1-5 and then turn to our rookie, who does well but we only finish 6-10.  I can only assume you would NOT support firing Idzik in this scenario.

 

 

Odds of that happening?  Slim to none.  Jason Campbell would have this team better than .500

[Jetsfan80]

Jason Campbell would have this team better than .500

 

Would he now.

[dbatesman]

steele trap

A low-budget Remington Steele spinoff cancelled after four episodes

[ZachEY]

Hindsight is 20/20.

Everyone loved getting Holmes for a 5th and plax was being pursued by multiple teams. In fact plax was in san Fran getting ready to visit but cancelled the meeting when the jets called.

Sparano was a disgrace but only lasted a season before getting shown the door.

 

Getting Holmes for a 5th is still a good move.  It's everything that was done after that that was the problem.

[Integrity28]

Hindsight is 20/20.

Everyone loved getting Holmes for a 5th and plax was being pursued by multiple teams. In fact plax was in san Fran getting ready to visit but cancelled the meeting when the jets called.

Sparano was a disgrace but only lasted a season before getting shown the door.

 

I agree, which is why I've been talking about what Holmes is to the this now. Plaxico being brought up is a result of dopes like you saying Rex hasn't had a negative impact on the roster. You can't divert the conversation about Holmes to "not Rex's fault" and not expect intelligent posters to then discuss the cumulative impact of 5 years of Rex getting his way with player acquisition. Plaxico, Holmes, Mason, Connor, Sanchez, the list goes on... they are all part of that story, and there is no way to discuss it other than in hindsight. 

 

But, if you want to use that to sidestep reality, that's fine. Your arguments are about as empty as they get, I've come to expect very little from you.

[Jetsfan80]

Getting Holmes for a 5th is still a good move.  It's everything that was done after that that was the problem.

 

Bingo.

 

JUST IMAGINE HOW MANY WINS IF BRAYLON INSTEAD

[bitonti]

 What will improve this team is bringing in someone, anyone, who can identify, and groom a QB. 

 

marty mornhinweg 

 

1995 and 1996  was the QB coach in GB, Brett Farve was entering his 5th year 

1997 - 2000 marty was the OC for SF, Steve Young was in his swan song. in 2000 they switched to Jeff Garcia, who while 30 years old was only in his 2nd year in the NFL. 

2003-2012 marty was OC for PHI, Donovan McNabb, Jeff Garcia (again), Mike Vick and Nick Foles 

 

 

besides his 2 years as HC in DET, (the Charlie Batch and Joey Harrington era) and his 1 year coaching Geno SMith here, it's safe to say you won't find a coach who has more success coaching QBs than Marty. 

 

the reason i bring this up is not just to make a point.

 

All you guys rooting for Rex to be fired, be prepared for Marty to replace him. He's got the resume, he's got HC experience and he's probably the most famous person who actually wants this job. 

 

be careful what you wish for Jets fans you just might get it 

[#27TheDominator]

Would he now.

 

Kyle Orton?  Hell, Sanchez would.  They are getting sub-human level QB play. Mornhinweg is afraid to let him throw and this dude had Foles throwing as soon as he got off the bus. 

[Integrity28]

 

Rex "hand picked" these guys now?  Give me a break.  He said those guys were tough when he coached against them.  How dare he!

 

 

Articles/interviews/Hard Knocks...

 

Rex flat out said he was asked by Tanny about Plax, put on tape of him from 2-3 years ago, watched one play and said "get this guy".

 

Rex flat out said he was the one that pushed for Holmes happening.

 

Rex flat out said he knew Sporano was the perfect pairing with him, and that Sporano was the OC version of himself.

 

So yeah.

 

I wish I was making it up, but I'm just going by what I've seen come out of his mouth or what he's been quoted as saying.

[Integrity28]

Getting Holmes for a 5th is still a good move.  It's everything that was done after that that was the problem.

 

Yeah, due in large part to Holmes being a divisive figure in the locker room. Undermine the coach, undermine the QB.... BEST WEAPON WE HAVE!!!

[Pac]

A low-budget Remington Steele spinoff cancelled after four episodes

 

phone posting sucks.

[Integrity28]

phone posting sucks.

 

So.... you have the only phone ever made that auto-corrects the properly spelled English words to the last name of fictional 80's TV characters? That esssplains it, at first I thought it was just Spanglish. 

[ZachEY]

Yeah, due in large part to Holmes being a divisive figure in the locker room. Undermine the coach, undermine the QB.... BEST WEAPON WE HAVE!!!

 

This team was desperately in need of talent.  They got that in Holmes.  It paid off in year one as he basically won numerous games for us w/ his big plays.  Giving him that kind of money later on, while bidding against no one, and having no leadership to keep him in check, was the real problem.

[Jetsfan80]

All you guys rooting for Rex to be fired, be prepared for Marty to replace him. 

 

Right because there are no other options.  Marty MAY get an interview, but promoting an OC for a unit that is collectively an absolute joke is not happening.  Marty is closer to getting fired than he is promoted.

[Pac]

I agree, which is why I've been talking about what Holmes is to the this now. Plaxico being brought up is a result of dopes like you saying Rex hasn't had a negative impact on the roster. You can't divert the conversation about Holmes to "not Rex's fault" and not expect intelligent posters to then discuss the cumulative impact of 5 years of Rex getting his way with player acquisition. Plaxico, Holmes, Mason, Connor, Sanchez, the list goes on... they are all part of that story, and there is no way to discuss it other than in hindsight. 

 

But, if you want to use that to sidestep reality, that's fine. Your arguments are about as empty as they get, I've come to expect very little from you.

 

Holmes, Connor, and Sanchez were part of the greatest story every told by this wretched franchise.  You and the pompous rat pack act as if making it to a championship game is no big deal but let me fill you in on something. In Rex' first 2 years they made it twice.  Guess how many times they made it that far in the prior 41 years?  twice.

 

So who is the one that is sidestepping realty?  The guy who appreciates the accomplishments and wants to see what he can do with an improved roster, or the clowns who act as if playoff wins with this team are commonplace and demands a championship?

[Pac]

So.... you have the only phone ever made that auto-corrects the properly spelled English words to the last name of fictional 80's TV characters? That esssplains it, at first I thought it was just Spanglish. 

 

Not sure why it did that..  my brother is a steelers fan so maybe it was saved in there or something.

 

Either way I can assure it won't auto correct this:  g   f   y

[ZachEY]

Holmes, Connor, and Sanchez were part of the greatest story every told by this wretched franchise.  You and the pompous rat pack act as if making it to a championship game is no big deal but let me fill you in on something. In Rex' first 2 years they made it twice.  Guess how many times they made it that far in the prior 41 years?  twice.

 

So who is the one that is sidestepping realty?  The guy who appreciates the accomplishments and wants to see what he can do with an improved roster, or the clowns who act as if playoff wins with this team are commonplace and demands a championship?

 

You must have a lot of little league participation trophies predominantly displayed.

[bitonti]

Right because there are no other options.  Marty MAY get an interview, but promoting an OC for a unit that is collectively an absolute joke is not happening.  Marty is closer to getting fired than he is promoted.

 

Few people currently coaching have as much success developing NFL QBs than Marty. 

[Pac]

You must have a lot of little league participation trophies predominantly displayed.

 

The only one I have on display is my 13th place finish in the 1983 potato sack race in elementary school.  Wasn't my fault though..  my teammates were all white.

[Integrity28]

Holmes, Connor, and Sanchez were part of the greatest story every told by this wretched franchise.  You and the pompous rat pack act as if making it to a championship game is no big deal but let me fill you in on something. In Rex' first 2 years they made it twice.  Guess how many times they made it that far in the prior 41 years?  twice.

 

So who is the one that is sidestepping realty?  The guy who appreciates the accomplishments and wants to see what he can do with an improved roster, or the clowns who act as if playoff wins with this team are commonplace and demands a championship?

 

I understand how difficult it is to lose 2 AFCC games.

 

It's also something I appreciate.

 

You aren't filling me in on anything, and you sound like a grandmother using phrases like that.

 

I've not side-stepped anything - don't talk to me about reality and then position yourself firmly behind a hypothetical. The reality IS that you can't get to a scenario where Rex has an improved roster IF Rex continues to have influence on the roster. That is the reality I have been discussing. I'm not talking about firing Rex, I'm talking about how we got to the point and saying Rex is hugely responsible, though not solely.

[#27TheDominator]

I hated Burress with a passion, but he was a decent signing.  He did not cost much and was very good in the red zone.  The problem stemmed from him being a cancer in the lockerroom and not being an everydown player.  To the extent he kept them from keeping/getting and developing a younger WR he may have been a problem.  To the extent that he kept them from resigning Braylon he was not. 

[Pac]

Few people currently coaching have as much success developing NFL QBs than Marty. 

 

I see you haven't heard of Darren Bevell.  He's single handidly transformed Russell Wilson into an above average game manager.

[Integrity28]

Not sure why it did that..  my brother is a steelers fan so maybe it was saved in there or something.

 

Either way I can assure it won't auto correct this:  g   f   y

 

 

Steelers is not spelled steele.

 

I think the issue is that you are stupid.

[NCJETSFAN]

Rex best the pats and saints if he squeezes 2 moe wins woody will keep him they need to fire all offensive coaches besides mm

[dbatesman]

marty mornhinweg

1995 and 1996 was the QB coach in GB, Brett Farve was entering his 5th year

1997 - 2000 marty was the OC for SF, Steve Young was in his swan song. in 2000 they switched to Jeff Garcia, who while 30 years old was only in his 2nd year in the NFL.

2003-2012 marty was OC for PHI, Donovan McNabb, Jeff Garcia (again), Mike Vick and Nick Foles

besides his 2 years as HC in DET, (the Charlie Batch and Joey Harrington era) and his 1 year coaching Geno SMith here, it's safe to say you won't find a coach who has more success coaching QBs than Marty.

the reason i bring this up is not just to make a point.

All you guys rooting for Rex to be fired, be prepared for Marty to replace him. He's got the resume, he's got HC experience and he's probably the most famous person who actually wants this job.

be careful what you wish for Jets fans you just might get it

Yeah, the people calling for Bevell are definitely the crazy ones.

[faba]

Yes our offense is pitiful so we will hire the person running it as head coach