Kirk Cousins- who would want him in a trade?

[CrazyCarl40]

Do you have some inside info as to what the cost might be ?

No but I'd imagine they'd want a 1 or 2 for him.

[Jetlife33]

wait, your saying get Vick at 34 and not Cousins ? Really ? Vick ?

Vick knows the MM system and can be a more than serviceable backup. Cousins can't do anything that Geno already can, imo.

[Sperm Edwards]

the last point was simply that if Cousins had been 1 year older he would have have been drafted ahead of EJ Manuel, Geno Smith, etc... 

 

When you look at a draft in any given year there are only so many teams that can take a QB early on.   A team like JAX whiffed on Gabbert but had to spend 2 years giving him a chance.   The same is true of Ponder, Weeden, Freeman.   I'd put Sanchez in that mix too but the Jets inexplicably gave him a mind-boggling extension.   So basically what I am saying is that given the overall strength of the 2012 QB draft more consideration should be given to Cousins and you shouldn't think of him as 'just' a 4th rd pick.  

 

1 QB was taken in round 1.  I'm saying if someone was interested in Kirk Cousins that badly, one would think they'd have offered Washington that same pick or higher.  Buffalo took Manuel #15 or 16.  If they really liked Cousins better than Manuel, I'd think they would just offer Washington that #15 pick for Cousins.  I can't imagine Washington - who had just given up 3 #1s for RGIII - would turn down the opportunity to get one of them back for their backup QB.

 

Pretend you're a team looking to draft a QB as high as round 1 in 2013.  Wouldn't you just offer Washington your #1 pick for Cousins instead of drafting an EJ Manuel or Geno Smith? I mean, if Cousins easily would have been the #1 QB taken what's the difference? Plus you actually got to see him play at the NFL level and not totally suck (yet).

[joewillie78]

1 QB was taken in round 1.  I'm saying if someone was interested in Kirk Cousins that badly, one would think they'd have offered Washington that same pick or higher.  Buffalo took Manuel #15 or 16.  If they really liked Cousins better than Manuel, I'd think they would just offer Washington that #15 pick for Cousins.  I can't imagine Washington - who had just given up 3 #1s for RGIII - would turn down the opportunity to get one of them back for their backup QB.

 

Pretend you're a team looking to draft a QB as high as round 1 in 2013.  Wouldn't you just offer Washington your #1 pick for Cousins instead of drafting an EJ Manuel or Geno Smith? I mean, if Cousins easily would have been the #1 QB taken what's the difference? Plus you actually got to see him play at the NFL level and not totally suck (yet).

In retrospect, give Buffalo your scenario again, and they JUMP at it. Manuel, like the rest of his "class" has been awful.

[LionelRichie]

1 QB was taken in round 1.  I'm saying if someone was interested in Kirk Cousins that badly, one would think they'd have offered Washington that same pick or higher.  Buffalo took Manuel #15 or 16.  If they really liked Cousins better than Manuel, I'd think they would just offer Washington that #15 pick for Cousins.  I can't imagine Washington - who had just given up 3 #1s for RGIII - would turn down the opportunity to get one of them back for their backup QB.

 

Pretend you're a team looking to draft a QB as high as round 1 in 2013.  Wouldn't you just offer Washington your #1 pick for Cousins instead of drafting an EJ Manuel or Geno Smith? I mean, if Cousins easily would have been the #1 QB taken what's the difference? Plus you actually got to see him play at the NFL level and not totally suck (yet).

 

that's an interesting thought that had not occurred to me.   I look at Cousins as an immediate improvement from both Geno and EJ but I guess either none of the GM's in the NFL did too or maybe Washington turned them down.    As you pointed out earlier there isn't an apples to apples contract comparison to a 1st rd pick but it is closer to a 2nd.  

 

Don't forget there was no guarantee that RG3 would be available week 1 and even then could Shanahan really go into his penultimate season with sexy Rexy, Pat White, and a broken RG3?   My guess was that Shanahan thought he had a playoff team on his hands in 2013 with either Cousins or RG3.   If RG3 didn't blow out his ACL I bet they would have moved Cousins for a 2nd rd pick.  

[LionelRichie]

duplicate

[joewillie78]

that's an interesting thought that had not occurred to me.   I look at Cousins as an immediate improvement from both Geno and EJ but I guess either none of the GM's in the NFL did too or maybe Washington turned them down.    As you pointed out earlier there isn't an apples to apples contract comparison to a 1st rd pick but it is closer to a 2nd.  

 

Don't forget there was no guarantee that RG3 would be available week 1 and even then could Shanahan really go into his penultimate season with sexy Rexy, Pat White, and a broken RG3?   My guess was that Shanahan thought he had a playoff team on his hands in 2013 with either Cousins or RG3.   If RG3 didn't blow out his ACL I bet they would have moved Cousins for a 2nd rd pick.  

Very good point. RGIII's health made Cousins basically untradeable 2 years ago. but now?

[JohnnyLV]

I'd rather have VICK and draft a QB this year. BUT if you gave me the simple choice: Cousins or Smith? No brainer, Cousins in a heartbeat.

 

Disagree very strongly with every word of this post

[joewillie78]

Disagree very strongly with every word of this post

So you have 100% complete faith in GENO, I must conclude, right? Fine, many do, BUT many don't?

[JohnnyLV]

So you have 100% complete faith in GENO, I must conclude, right? Fine, many do, BUT many don't?

 

I don't have 100% faith in Geno but I have about the same level of hope that he turns to a franchise guy as Cousins and Geno has the somewhat huge advantage of already being a Jet. Also, why the hell would we want Vick who cannot possibly stay healthy and brings tons of baggage. Geno deserves another year of development with better weapons around him.

[jgb]

jets are lucky in the sense that even in an off year for FA qbs, almost any of them would have a legit shot to win the job. that's all i really care about. incremental improvement better than none at all. just no more 40 year old booger holders please.

 

[Integrity28]

So you have 100% complete faith in GENO, I must conclude, right? Fine, many do, BUT many don't?

 

He could be good, or he could be bad. Amiright? LOL

[joewillie78]

jets are lucky in the sense that even in an off year for FA qbs, almost any of them would have a legit shot to win the job. that's all i really care about. incremental improvement better than none at all. just no more 40 year old booger holders please.

 

I agree. I think all of the following could beat out Geno:

Vick

Orton

Henne

Cousins

Schaub

McCown

[Sperm Edwards]

In retrospect, give Buffalo your scenario again, and they JUMP at it. Manuel, like the rest of his "class" has been awful.

 

No retrospect.  At that time.  If Buffalo (or another team) felt Manuel was worth the #15 pick, then in theory they should have offered that #15 pick (at a minimum) to Washington for Cousins.  That nobody did suggests that no one felt Cousins was worthy of a #1 pick.  And with Geno being nearly a #1 pick (high round 2) it probably means the Jets didn't think Cousins was worth that pick either.  It is doubtful to me that Washington would have turned down either offer.  Possible, with RGIII still relatively early in rehabbing his knee, but unlikely they'd turn down a top 40 (let alone a top 15) pick on the off-chance that they might want Cousins to start for a few weeks or so to begin the season.  You get a backup to do that and go with Griffin when he's ready.

[Sperm Edwards]

that's an interesting thought that had not occurred to me.   I look at Cousins as an immediate improvement from both Geno and EJ but I guess either none of the GM's in the NFL did too or maybe Washington turned them down.    As you pointed out earlier there isn't an apples to apples contract comparison to a 1st rd pick but it is closer to a 2nd.  

 

Don't forget there was no guarantee that RG3 would be available week 1 and even then could Shanahan really go into his penultimate season with sexy Rexy, Pat White, and a broken RG3?   My guess was that Shanahan thought he had a playoff team on his hands in 2013 with either Cousins or RG3.   If RG3 didn't blow out his ACL I bet they would have moved Cousins for a 2nd rd pick.  

 

See my post above.  It's possible, but I don't think so.  A top 40 pick for a little bit of time from Cousins at the start of the season (that they may not - and ultimately did not - even need)? I don't see them turning down our pick that we used on Geno, and I definitely don't think they turn down the #15 pick in the country for him.  That is the same as spending an extra #15 pick on Cousins to be RGIII's backup for part of 1 season.  No one's going to do that.  Therefore I don't think anyone looking for a QB would have taken Cousins in round 1.  If anyone had him rated better than Manuel, Geno, and the rest, then it just means they didn't think any of them were worthy of a top 50 pick.  

 

But more than 1 team, I'm sure, had round 1 grades on both Manuel and Smith.  

[joewillie78]

No retrospect.  At that time.  If Buffalo (or another team) felt Manuel was worth the #15 pick, then in theory they should have offered that #15 pick (at a minimum) to Washington for Cousins.  That nobody did suggests that no one felt Cousins was worthy of a #1 pick.  And with Geno being nearly a #1 pick (high round 2) it probably means the Jets didn't think Cousins was worth that pick either.  It is doubtful to me that Washington would have turned down either offer.  Possible, with RGIII still relatively early in rehabbing his knee, but unlikely they'd turn down a top 40 (let alone a top 15) pick on the off-chance that they might want Cousins to start for a few weeks or so to begin the season.  You get a backup to do that and go with Griffin when he's ready.

I agree, AT THAT TIME, they thought Manuel would be a better prospect than Cousins. Turns out they were wrong. Manuel as I said, like the rest of his class is awful, and none deserved 1st round consideration, and quite frankly high 2nd. They all turned out to be 3rd and 4th rounders.

[Sperm Edwards]

I agree, AT THAT TIME, they thought Manuel would be a better prospect than Cousins. Turns out they were wrong. Manuel as I said, like the rest of his class is awful, and none deserved 1st round consideration, and quite frankly high 2nd. They all turned out to be 3rd and 4th rounders.

 

Huh?

 

All you know of right now is that Manuel had a rough rookie season.  Same with Geno.

 

You have no idea whether or not one or the other or both or neither will end up as superior QBs to Cousins.

[joewillie78]

Huh?

 

All you know of right now is that Manuel had a rough rookie season.  Same with Geno.

 

You have no idea whether or not one or the other or both or neither will end up as superior QBs to Cousins.

Your of course right. Based on what we saw this year (and as you said, that's what we have to go on), they are both awful and really, Glennon showed the most of the 3. Would I take Cousins right now over Geno and Manuel, based on what I saw this year? Of course. Glennon and Cousins would be very close.

[faba]

You do have to realize a rookie QB succeeding at a high level is very rare. Keep that in perspective. They all may turn out to be bad but can not conclude that as of yet

[joewillie78]

You do have to realize a rookie QB succeeding at a high level is very rare. Keep that in perspective. They all may turn out to be bad but can not conclude that as of yet

Hmmmm.....Luck, Wilson, RGIII, Flacco, Newton, Dalton. NOT that rare.

[faba]

Very rare i repeat-one great class compare that to all the other years in history. Cam Newton was going to be run out of town before this year. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Your of course right. Based on what we saw this year (and as you said, that's what we have to go on), they are both awful and really, Glennon showed the most of the 3. Would I take Cousins right now over Geno and Manuel, based on what I saw this year? Of course. Glennon and Cousins would be very close.

 

 

1. 83/218 (38%), 6 TDs, 24 INTs.   

2. 72/138 (52%), 3 TDs, 8 INTs. (Season 2 195/363 (53.7%), 8 TDs, 13 INTs)

3. 155/293 (52.9%), 9 TDs, 18 INTs in 11 games. 

4. 123/259 (47.5%), 7 TDs, 14 INTs in 10 games.

 

Player 1 has 4 SB rings and is in the HOF.

Player 2 retired with the highest passer rating in NFL history and 1 SB ring and is in the HOF.

Player 3 has 3 SB rings and is in the HOF.

Player 4 has 2 SB rings, finished with over 50,000 passing yards, and is in the HOF.

 

 

Neither Manuel nor Geno are likely to sniff at these guys' careers, but you see what I'm getting at?

 

You would have benched, cut, and maybe might have shot each of these QBs in favor of their days' versions of Kirk Cousins.

[LionelRichie]

See my post above.  It's possible, but I don't think so.  A top 40 pick for a little bit of time from Cousins at the start of the season (that they may not - and ultimately did not - even need)? I don't see them turning down our pick that we used on Geno, and I definitely don't think they turn down the #15 pick in the country for him.  That is the same as spending an extra #15 pick on Cousins to be RGIII's backup for part of 1 season.  No one's going to do that.  Therefore I don't think anyone looking for a QB would have taken Cousins in round 1.  If anyone had him rated better than Manuel, Geno, and the rest, then it just means they didn't think any of them were worthy of a top 50 pick.  

 

But more than 1 team, I'm sure, had round 1 grades on both Manuel and Smith.  

 

I get what you're saying but the truth is we'll never know.    At the time all of those players were drafted Cousins was #1 on the depth chart.   Had RG3 not suffered as severe of an injury and been able to participate in OTA's, mini-camp, and training camp the situation would have been different. 

 

If you don't like Cousins, here is another name that will be available for almost nothing:  Blaine Gabbert.    

 

In the land of reality the top QBs are likely gone by 18.   That leaves Schaub, Campbell, Derek Anderson, Tavaris Jackson....yuk.    I would actually take Drew Stanton over the above list and the Jets had him signed before the Tebow fiasco.   

[Meddle]

I think he is a QB worth adding, and he could possibly beat out Smith, but I'm not giving up what they paid for him.  Maybe in a weak draft, but the Jets have very good uses for those two 3rd rounders.

[Sperm Edwards]

I get what you're saying but the truth is we'll never know.    At the time all of those players were drafted Cousins was #1 on the depth chart.   Had RG3 not suffered as severe of an injury and been able to participate in OTA's, mini-camp, and training camp the situation would have been different. 

 

If you don't like Cousins, here is another name that will be available for almost nothing:  Blaine Gabbert.    

 

In the land of reality the top QBs are likely gone by 18.   That leaves Schaub, Campbell, Derek Anderson, Tavaris Jackson....yuk.    I would actually take Drew Stanton over the above list and the Jets had him signed before the Tebow fiasco.   

 

I wasn't rendering a personal opinion on him as a QB.  Just that I don't think it's so likely that he'd have been the first QB off the board in this draft, had he come out a year later.

[joewillie78]

1. 83/218 (38%), 6 TDs, 24 INTs.   

2. 72/138 (52%), 3 TDs, 8 INTs. (Season 2 195/363 (53.7%), 8 TDs, 13 INTs)

3. 155/293 (52.9%), 9 TDs, 18 INTs in 11 games. 

4. 123/259 (47.5%), 7 TDs, 14 INTs in 10 games.

 

Player 1 has 4 SB rings and is in the HOF.

Player 2 retired with the highest passer rating in NFL history and 1 SB ring and is in the HOF.

Player 3 has 3 SB rings and is in the HOF.

Player 4 has 2 SB rings, finished with over 50,000 passing yards, and is in the HOF.

 

 

Neither Manuel nor Geno are likely to sniff at these guys' careers, but you see what I'm getting at?

 

You would have benched, cut, and maybe might have shot each of these QBs in favor of their days' versions of Kirk Cousins.

I have seen this argument used before, and it is down right awful. No matter how bad Elway, Luck, Bradshaw, and even Manning looked as rookies, you knew automatically that these guys were special. It was obvious. I remember watching LUCK look just awful as a rookie and NEVER questioning that this guy was special. I remember watching ELWAY, as a rookie and marveling at his talent, no matter how bad he looked, and saying this guy is special. Peyton also, but with the dudes from last years draft, NONE have given that feeling or impression. Stats are great BUT how they look, the feel they give, those special qualities come out, if the dude is special, like they did with Elway etc., but these guys are ordinary, and always will be. Its just different when you know you have something special.

[Sperm Edwards]

I have seen this argument used before, and it is down right awful. No matter how bad Elway, Luck, Bradshaw, and even Manning looked as rookies, you knew automatically that these guys were special. It was obvious. I remember watching LUCK look just awful as a rookie and NEVER questioning that this guy was special. I remember watching ELWAY, as a rookie and marveling at his talent, no matter how bad he looked, and saying this guy is special. Peyton also, but with the dudes from last years draft, NONE have given that feeling or impression. Stats are great BUT how they look, the feel they give, those special qualities come out, if the dude is special, like they did with Elway etc., but these guys are ordinary, and always will be. Its just different when you know you have something special.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about.  Awful is awful.  You're going to seriously tell me you looked at Terry Bradshaw - on the 1 game he was probably televised in NY that year - and his 6 TDs to 24 INTs and 38% completion percentage and say that from your living room on that 1 game you could tell he was a future HOFer?

 

You didn't know sh*t.  You didn't see ANY of these guys play more than a handful of plays - if that - when they were rookies so you are talking out of your ass.

 

Lol.  What a load of bullsh*t.

[joewillie78]

You have no idea what you're talking about.  Awful is awful.  You're going to seriously tell me you looked at Terry Bradshaw - on the 1 game he was probably televised in NY that year - and his 6 TDs to 24 INTs and 38% completion percentage and say that from your living room on that 1 game you could tell he was a future HOFer?

 

You didn't know sh*t.  You didn't see ANY of these guys play more than a handful of plays - if that - when they were rookies so you are talking out of your ass.

 

Lol.  What a load of bullsh*t.

Not worth discussing this with you, obviously. If you want to discuss it without the cursing, the innuendo, the condescension, then try again, otherwise, have a nice day.

[#27TheDominator]

Not worth discussing this with you, obviously. If you want to discuss it without the cursing, the innuendo, the condescension, then try again, otherwise, have a nice day.

 

What?  Now we can't ******* curse?  Condescension is our main talent around here, though we are usually too blatant to use much innuendo. 

[joewillie78]

What?  Now we can't ******* curse?  Condescension is our main talent around here, though we are usually too blatant to use much innuendo. 

Read the posts in context. I gave a response to his stats on great QBS that struggled as rookies, saying that by basically watching them intently, that you could spot right away that guys like ELWAY, LUCK etc, no matter how much they struggled as rookies, were still going to be huge successes in this league. Just my opinion, and he went off on this CURSE laden, personal attack, with innuendos and condescension dripping from every part of the post.

 

I will discuss, any subject with anyone, but when the response is of the type that he supplied, I find it easier to simply move on and wish the respondent a nice day.

 

If I handled it wrong, so be it, but its better than some childish pissing match, and it appears that was what was about to happen. Sorry.

[#27TheDominator]

Read the posts in context. I gave a response to his stats on great QBS that struggled as rookies, saying that by basically watching them intently, that you could spot right away that guys like ELWAY, LUCK etc, no matter how much they struggled as rookies, were still going to be huge successes in this league. Just my opinion, and he went off on this CURSE laden, personal attack, with innuendos and condescension dripping from every part of the post.

 

I will discuss, any subject with anyone, but when the response is of the type that he supplied, I find it easier to simply move on and wish the respondent a nice day.

 

If I handled it wrong, so be it, but its better than some childish pissing match, and it appears that was what was about to happen. Sorry.

 

You aren't one of the guys reporting posts are you?  If you can't stand the heat get out of hell's kitchen. 

 

You think these guys were going to be huge successes because you saw highlights.  There are plenty of people (non-Jets fans) that told me Sanchez was "special".  Same with your boy Jeff George.  Some kid in Kansas who didn't watch any Jets game besides the night game against Atlanta is telling people the same thing about Geno. 

[joewillie78]

You aren't one of the guys reporting posts are you?  If you can't stand the heat get out of hell's kitchen. 

 

You think these guys were going to be huge successes because you saw highlights.  There are plenty of people (non-Jets fans) that told me Sanchez was "special".  Same with your boy Jeff George.  Some kid in Kansas who didn't watch any Jets game besides the night game against Atlanta is telling people the same thing about Geno. 

Never reported a post and never will. Not my business. Easier to just ignore and move on. Hell, someone changes my SIG just about everyday, and I roll with it. I saw Elway Live (on TV obviously) in college and pro, same with Luck, same with all QB's. You watch and make asessments. Your response is coherent, and sensible, even though you disagree with my premise. This discussion can and will continue. Much different than the response I got from the other respondent. Thanks.

[Jetsfan80]

Insults are why I come here.

[#27TheDominator]

Never reported a post and never will. Not my business. Easier to just ignore and move on. Hell, someone changes my SIG just about everyday, and I roll with it. I saw Elway Live (on TV obviously) in college and pro, same with Luck, same with all QB's. You watch and make asessments. Your response is coherent, and sensible, even though you disagree with my premise. This discussion can and will continue. Much different than the response I got from the other respondent. Thanks.

 

**** you

 

Insults are why I come here.

 

**** you, too

[Sperm Edwards]

Not worth discussing this with you, obviously. If you want to discuss it without the cursing, the innuendo, the condescension, then try again, otherwise, have a nice day.

 

No it isn't.  But carry on with your insinuation that you watched all of Terry Bradshaw's rookie-season games as they unfolded and could tell, with a keen eye, that they really had something there even though he was way worse than Mark Sanchez.  Same thing about how you watched all of Steve Young's early Tampa snaps.  Every one of them.  Ditto Troy Aikman, ditto John Elway.  You watched every one of their rookie snaps and it was obvious to you that their awful play was indicative of a future HOF career.  You realize no one believes this, right?

 

And my point would have been less biting if I said malarkey? I did * out a letter to be a sweet guy and not write out the whole word.

 

The rest of the innuendo is spot-on.  You did not watch every one of these guys' rookie season games/snaps unless you used to live in Pittsburgh, then Denver, then Tampa, then Dallas so you could catch all of those teams' games.  Not while you were watching Namath through O'Brien in NY.