DeMarcus Ware

[Lupz27]

According to NFL Network Jerry Jones said he could be released.

If released do you give him the 16 Million per that we wouldn't give Revis? Also we are not, and will not be paying a QB franchise type money (once the Sanchez contract is cut, or reworked) for at least 3 more years, so we could use it on him instead.

Just imagine a front 7 of Ware, D Davis, D Harris, Coples, Mo Wilk, Snacks/Ellis, and Richardson.

And a long passing down front 5 of Ware, Coples, Mo Wilk, Richardson, and Davis getting after the QB, or drop Davis, and rush a front 4 of Coples, Wilk, Richardson, and Ware!

This would give us that finisher that the Jets D has been missing since Rex got here, should end a lot of those late 4th quarter drives our D always seemed to botch at the end of games.

Thoughts?

[joewillie78]

How Old is Ware?

[Jetsfan80]

What's his REALISTIC market value?  If it's $16M not a chance.  He's 31 years old.

[joewillie78]

What's his REALISTIC market value?  If it's $16M not a chance.  He's 31 years old.

31? and 16 million? No way. offer him 10 and see if he bites.

[Lupz27]

A lot of these elite pass rushers had their best years in their early 30's like Strahan, and R White. Dude is/was the elite of the elite at his position.

[fishing92070]

He will go to the Pats. Mark it!

[joewillie78]

He played for the other crazy Ryan, with the lice infested hairdo, does that mean anything?

[fishing92070]

Maybe but see the Pats really making a hard run at him. Not sure many FA want to come to the Jets with our QB situation.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Wasn't able to stay on the field and when he was on it, he wasn't effective. Unless he's going to take the vet min like pace did last year, I have zero interest in Ware. Maybe 1%, just because I used to love that guy.

[Be_a_Jet]

Is this guy joking. 

[jack48]

I don't see Idzik, who had no money last year, breaking the bank for this guy.

[jgb]

ware is a beast. he has several double-digit sack seasons left in him.

[BroadwayJoe12]

He played for the other crazy Ryan, with the lice infested hairdo, does that mean anything?

 

That you're jealous of men with hair?

[joewillie78]

That you're jealous of men with hair?

And those with all their teeth.

[Lizard King]

You absolutely go after this guy for the right money. Omg

[SayNoToDMC]

**** it, let's just give him $20 million and call it a day

[SenorGato]

I'd love to sign him for something like the 1.75 the Pats signed Andre Carter for in 2011. 

[j4jets]

Wasn't able to stay on the field and when he was on it, he wasn't effective. Unless he's going to take the vet min like pace did last year, I have zero interest in Ware. Maybe 1%, just because I used to love that guy.

Yes, he was very ineffective last year but that's because he was playing with multiple injuries. A healthy Ware is worth the whole $16mil. But vets min? How many players with 6 sacks take vets min? When healthy, which he was at the beginning of the year, he's the best there is. He'll easily command $10mil in the open market, whether it be through incentives, or guaranteed. He's the elite and slightly healthier version of Kris Jenkins at OLB. I'd love the Jets to at least do their due diligence with him and evaluate his physical condition.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Yes, he was very ineffective last year but that's because he was playing with multiple injuries. A healthy Ware is worth the whole $16mil. But vets min? How many players with 6 sacks take vets min? When healthy, which he was at the beginning of the year, he's the best there is. He'll easily command $10mil in the open market, whether it be through incentives, or guaranteed. He's the elite and slightly healthier version of Kris Jenkins at OLB. I'd love the Jets to at least do their due diligence with him and evaluate his physical condition.

 

That's the thing, he wasn't healthy and he's not healthy. If he's healthy, Dallas will make other cap arrangements to keep him. Even if he did hit the open market, we're not a championship caliber team, giving $10 million to a 33 year old breaking down OLB is not a smart move. That's not how you become a better team. 

[RSJ]

A few points on Ware:

 

- He only missed 3 games last year. Other than that he started 16 games every year.

 

- He got beat up more last year due to being undersized for a 4-3 DE. Jerry Jones is an idiot for installing a DC who prefers this defense when his two best players are better suited for a 3-4/multiple front defense.

 

- Ware reportedly loved playing for Rob Ryan. Said he was the best DC he has ever played for. Ware is in a stare down right now because reports are he is unhappy in Dallas and wants to get cut.

 

- If he is cut he will not count against the Jets comp picks. This always seems to be a deciding factor with Idzik.

 

The Jets almost have to go hard after him. He is the one missing piece in our front and easily has 2-3 years of elite play left in the defense we happen to run.

[Sperm Edwards]

That's the thing, he wasn't healthy and he's not healthy. If he's healthy, Dallas will make other cap arrangements to keep him. Even if he did hit the open market, we're not a championship caliber team, giving $10 million to a 33 year old breaking down OLB is not a smart move. That's not how you become a better team. 

 

Question is more if his injuries are things that heal 100% or if he actually is breaking down. Could just be that he'll be totally healthy with a full off-season and all he did was play through injuries when, in a perfect situation, he should have been off the field healing up.

 

If he is healthy, I think it is how you become a better team.  $10M/year isn't going to be a guaranteed $10M per year every year for the next 4-5.  Most likely the first 2 will be guaranteed (less if the doctors don't give their 100% blessing), and after that he's cuttable. The team has suffered through similar money with nothing to show for it (Gholston+Jenkins+Pennington counted almost $14M in 2009; Gholston+Jenkins+Faneca were $14M again in 2010), and still went to championship games both years with Mark Sanchez at QB.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Question is more if his injuries are things that heal 100% or if he actually is breaking down. Could just be that he'll be totally healthy with a full off-season and all he did was play through injuries when, in a perfect situation, he should have been off the field healing up.

 

If he is healthy, I think it is how you become a better team.  $10M/year isn't going to be a guaranteed $10M per year every year for the next 4-5.  Most likely the first 2 will be guaranteed (less if the doctors don't give their 100% blessing), and after that he's cuttable. The team has suffered through similar money with nothing to show for it (Gholston+Jenkins+Pennington counted almost $14M in 2009; Gholston+Jenkins+Faneca were $14M again in 2010), and still went to championship games both years with Mark Sanchez at QB.

 

 

Regardless of his health going forward, I don't think we should be investing big-money contracts into 33+ year old veterans. None of those contracts prove anything besides that we'd be able to weather the storm when Ware sucks and we're stuck paying him.

[RSJ]

Regardless of his health going forward, I don't think we should be investing big-money contracts into 33+ year old veterans. None of those contracts prove anything besides that we'd be able to weather the storm when Ware sucks and we're stuck paying him.

 

He is 31, and will be 32 by the start of the season. No one is going to give him a contract that will make him uncuttable at 35. It will be a 5 year deal with most of the guaranteed money in the first 3 years. Sorry, but the Jets HAVE to go after him if he is available.

[Sperm Edwards]

A few points on Ware:

 

- He only missed 3 games last year. Other than that he started 16 games every year.

 

- He got beat up more last year due to being undersized for a 4-3 DE. Jerry Jones is an idiot for installing a DC who prefers this defense when his two best players are better suited for a 3-4/multiple front defense.

 

- Ware reportedly loved playing for Rob Ryan. Said he was the best DC he has ever played for. Ware is in a stare down right now because reports are he is unhappy in Dallas and wants to get cut.

 

- If he is cut he will not count against the Jets comp picks. This always seems to be a deciding factor with Idzik.

 

The Jets almost have to go hard after him. He is the one missing piece in our front and easily has 2-3 years of elite play left in the defense we happen to run.

 

I don't know what seems to be a deciding factor for Idzik. No one does.  What we saw in 1 cap-strapped offseason is him not signing a lot of UFAs when he figured us to get the full maximum 4 picks in 2014.  Even still, he did sign UFAs in March (Goodson comes to mind) and gave up an immediate draft pick for yet another RB in Ivory. Also the Jets were poised to gain higher compensatory picks because they were losing players that he (correctly) felt other teams would throw millions at (Landry, Keller, DeVito, Greene, and probably thought Slauson would get way more than he did from Chicago, who got a ridiculous bargain).

 

Also the Jets aren't going to gain compensatory picks (not more than 1 maybe) in 2016 anyway, and it would be a low one at that if we let Colon go.  Who else are we going to gain picks for, whose contract only ran through the end of the 2013 season? Austin Howard would be the only one, and we're forgoing a future compensatory pick by trying to re-sign him already. Others include Ducasse, Nick Folk (who we're also supposedly trying to re-sign), Cumberland, Reed, and Pace. Oh yeah, and Kellen Winslow.  I can't think of anyone else that another team is truly willing to give more than the vet minimum for, and none of these would yield even a 4th round pick and maybe not even a 5.  Meanwhile I'm sure the Jets are interested in bringing half of them back.  Re-signing one's own UFAs wipes out a pick the same as newly-signing a UFA from another team.

 

The highest pick we stand to gain is probably a 5 for Howard or Folk, depending on what they sign for elsewhere if we don't reach deals with either one.  Unless Idzik is a great fool, he's not going pass up on a $10M/year 1st-ballot HOF player because of what is effectively the top pick in round 6 in the following year's draft.

 

The rest of your post I agree with.  IF he checks out physically I'd love the idea of adding him for $10M (if he could be had for that money).  Even Ryan must know he can't expect Pace to repeat his 2013 sack numbers again.

[BroadwayJoe12]

He is 31, and will be 32 by the start of the season. No one is going to give him a contract that will make him uncuttable at 35. It will be a 5 year deal with most of the guaranteed money in the first 3 years. Sorry, but the Jets HAVE to go after him if he is available.

 

Fair enough, but I still disagree. I don't want to add 32 year old vets to the team for big money deals, the history hasn't consistently been kind to those who do. If he's healthy, what makes you think he's just going to sign a deal where he can be cut in a couple years?  Either way, it's not a move that I want to make, I'm aware it's a different opinion that most.

[Sperm Edwards]

Regardless of his health going forward, I don't think we should be investing big-money contracts into 33+ year old veterans. None of those contracts prove anything besides that we'd be able to weather the storm when Ware sucks and we're stuck paying him.

 

Except he's not a 33+ year-old veteran.  He is, today, a 31 year-old veteran who will be 32 in August.  It is not nearly the same thing as a "33+ year old veteran" who is 33 now and turns 34 during the season.  Use the interwebz you freaking dinosaur.

[RSJ]

Fair enough, but I still disagree. I don't want to add 32 year old vets to the team for big money deals, the history hasn't consistently been kind to those who do. If he's healthy, what makes you think he's just going to sign a deal where he can be cut in a couple years?  Either way, it's not a move that I want to make, I'm aware it's a different opinion that most.

 

He makes this defense disgustingly good. Even if just for a few years. Also, he was a DE in a 4-3 last season. That position change probably had a lot to do with him being banged up. 

[BroadwayJoe12]

Except he's not a 33+ year-old veteran.  He is, today, a 31 year-old veteran who will be 32 in August.  It is not nearly the same thing as a "33+ year old veteran" who is 33 now and turns 34 during the season.  Use the interwebz you freaking dinosaur.

 

So he's going to be 32, instead of 33, are you guys really quibbling over one year?  Look, he looked beaten down and ineffective whenever I saw him play, I'm not going to be convinced that giving him a $10 million per contract is a good idea.  If he's healthy and you cut that number in half, sure, I can get on board, but I just don't think it's a brilliant idea.  I wouldn't be miserable, but I'd just assume go after a Mack or Ford in the draft and use that money on Sanders and Nicks.

[BroadwayJoe12]

He makes this defense disgustingly good. Even if just for a few years. Also, he was a DE in a 4-3 last season. That position change probably had a lot to do with him being banged up. 

 

The old Ware makes this defense immensely better, but how can you prove that it was the position change and not a decade of football that caused is break down?  His play has been on a decline the last couple of years and I'm not in the habit of rewarding people for past performances. I wouldn't be throwing myself out of a window if it happened, I've always been a big fan, I just don't think it's a smart move.

[slats]

Fair enough, but I still disagree. I don't want to add 32 year old vets to the team for big money deals, the history hasn't consistently been kind to those who do. If he's healthy, what makes you think he's just going to sign a deal where he can be cut in a couple years?  Either way, it's not a move that I want to make, I'm aware it's a different opinion that most.

I tend to agree. This is a move you make if you see your team one pass-rusher away from the Super Bowl in the immediate future. That's not how I'd describe today's Jets. I'd be spending the bigger money on younger players I want to grow with my team, and supplementing that with inexpensive veterans (the Kellen Winslows and Calvin Paces of the world).

I just think the Jets are in a great position here to rebuild the team in one offseason, a position that gets compromised if they spend a quarter of their cap space on a 32 year old Ware.

[RSJ]

I don't know what seems to be a deciding factor for Idzik. No one does.  What we saw in 1 cap-strapped offseason is him not signing a lot of UFAs when he figured us to get the full maximum 4 picks in 2014.  Even still, he did sign UFAs in March (Goodson comes to mind) and gave up an immediate draft pick for yet another RB in Ivory. Also the Jets were poised to gain higher compensatory picks because they were losing players that he (correctly) felt other teams would throw millions at (Landry, Keller, DeVito, Greene, and probably thought Slauson would get way more than he did from Chicago, who got a ridiculous bargain).

 

Also the Jets aren't going to gain compensatory picks (not more than 1 maybe) in 2016 anyway, and it would be a low one at that if we let Colon go.  Who else are we going to gain picks for, whose contract only ran through the end of the 2013 season? Austin Howard would be the only one, and we're forgoing a future compensatory pick by trying to re-sign him already. Others include Ducasse, Nick Folk (who we're also supposedly trying to re-sign), Cumberland, Reed, and Pace. Oh yeah, and Kellen Winslow.  I can't think of anyone else that another team is truly willing to give more than the vet minimum for, and none of these would yield even a 4th round pick and maybe not even a 5.  Meanwhile I'm sure the Jets are interested in bringing half of them back.  Re-signing one's own UFAs wipes out a pick the same as newly-signing a UFA from another team.

 

The highest pick we stand to gain is probably a 5 for Howard or Folk, depending on what they sign for elsewhere if we don't reach deals with either one.  Unless Idzik is a great fool, he's not going pass up on a $10M/year 1st-ballot HOF player because of what is effectively the top pick in round 6 in the following year's draft.

 

The rest of your post I agree with.  IF he checks out physically I'd love the idea of adding him for $10M (if he could be had for that money).  Even Ryan must know he can't expect Pace to repeat his 2013 sack numbers again.

 

Good point on the comp picks. I hadn't thought about who we were going to lose this offseason.

 

We agree on signing him. With this cap money we have, signing Ware for 10 million shouldnt be an issue at all. 10 million should get him signed too.

[RSJ]

The old Ware makes this defense immensely better, but how can you prove that it was the position change and not a decade of football that caused is break down?  His play has been on a decline the last couple of years and I'm not in the habit of rewarding people for past performances. I wouldn't be throwing myself out of a window if it happened, I've always been a big fan, I just don't think it's a smart move.

 

He was never built to play 4-3 DE. It was a stupid move. Look at Pace when he played that position with Arizona, then switched. This type of thing happens all the time to small DE's in the NFL.

[Sperm Edwards]

So he's going to be 32, instead of 33, are you guys really quibbling over one year?  Look, he looked beaten down and ineffective whenever I saw him play, I'm not going to be convinced that giving him a $10 million per contract is a good idea.  If he's healthy and you cut that number in half, sure, I can get on board, but I just don't think it's a brilliant idea.  I wouldn't be miserable, but I'd just assume go after a Mack or Ford in the draft and use that money on Sanders and Nicks.

 

Bro, he's not going to get a guaranteed $10M/year for the next 5 years.  He'd be cuttable before his 34th birthday with little residual cap hit or I'm not interested.

 

4 years $40M, $20M guaranteed.  $8M signing bonus, $5M salary in year 1, $7M salary in year 2, $9M salary year 3, $11M salary year 4.

 

Cap hits:

2014: $7M

2015: $9M

 

Cut him in 2016 if he's not productive enough. Dead cap space of $4M total:

2016: $4M (but $7M "net savings")

2017: zero

 

or cut him after June 1, 2016:

2016: $2M (net savings of $9M)

2017: $2M

 

Ultimately, it's 2 years and $20M, and only $16M of it comes off the cap in those first 2 years. And this presumes he passes a physical with flying colors, which he wouldn't have last season.

 

What did you think, he was going to still be guaranteed to count $10M when he's 36?

[BroadwayJoe12]

Bro, he's not going to get a guaranteed $10M/year for the next 5 years.  He'd be cuttable before his 34th birthday with little residual cap hit or I'm not interested.

 

4 years $40M, $20M guaranteed.  $8M signing bonus, $5M salary in year 1, $7M salary in year 2, $9M salary year 3, $11M salary year 4.

 

Cap hits:

2014: $7M

2015: $9M

 

Cut him in 2016 if he's not productive enough. Dead cap space of $4M total:

2016: $4M (but $7M "net savings")

2017: zero

 

or cut him after June 1, 2016:

2016: $2M (net savings of $9M)

2017: $2M

 

Ultimately, it's 2 years and $20M, and only $16M of it comes off the cap in those first 2 years. And this presumes he passes a physical with flying colors, which he wouldn't have last season.

 

What did you think, he was going to still be guaranteed to count $10M when he's 36?

 

Valid argument, but I just don't think we're one player away from a championship within the next two years and as Slats mentioned, I'd rather use that money on younger guys that can be with us for four or 5 years.    e.g Nicks, Sanders...   

 

I still wouldn't be upset with it happening, just wouldn't be thrilled as it's not a move I'd like to make.  I understand all the positives and your contract was well formulated, it's just not the move I hope we make.  

[ylekram]

if healthy, and as much as I think he would improve the defense, I wouldn't pay him 10m a year at 32 years of age. I would rather throw that kinda money at orakpo(3,4 years younger)