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SE's post on why the Idzik haters are wrong. (aka Crusher's unofficial POTW winner of ever so he never has to name a winner)

Jetsfan80

By Jetsfan80
in NY Jets Forum

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Jetsfan80

Jetsfan80

Posted
Posted

Because this deserved it's own thread.  

 

Fair enough.  Hey, everyone's entitled to an opinion but I think it's a matter of volume.  The # of posts that have been generated every day about how horrible things are has grown exponentially.  The first few times, hey, whatever; Jets fans complaining is nothing that should draw attention.  But it's nonstop.  More and more and more and more and more.  When the same people regurgitate the same opinion it gets on others' nerves.  And to read the way it comes across, one can practically hear the - let's call them "critics" - screaming from their keyboards.

 

And for some, it's based on not spending money for the sake of spending it IMO.  Like I should feel more comfortable about a so-so RT if he cost $6M/year instead of about half that.  Or the barrage of complaints about not signing someone like Pettigrew to a $5M/year contract to make sure his prior team didn't one-up us.  

 

Idzik has 1 year of GMing under his belt.  Even if you like him so far, as I do, you still can't give him a full grade.  I think things he's done that have been very good get brushed aside as though anyone would have done exactly the same thing and gotten exactly the same results (like getting a higher first round pick for Revis, with 1 suitor, when the guy needs a new $16M/year contract to keep him).  I think this is a convenient stance to take, and some of the same complainers were pissed he didn't take a 2nd & something else the next season, as was TB's alleged top offer, when they thought Idzik had overplayed his hand.  Also it's convenient to overlook, by the non-moves, all the bad moves that were not made.  Non-moves are never compared to bad moves in hindsight; they're only compared to moves that would have been tremendous boons to the franchise for years.  Talk about a convenient position to take.

 

I think those complaining - and hey, I complain plenty - are taking no less of a know-everything position than those who don't share the opinion.  That if money is available, then it must be spent right away.  My opinion is this is what got us into a hole that's taking us 3 years to climb out of (when you count the last year of Tannenbaum's tenure).  Top players are worth top money.  Mediocre ones are not.  At the same time, a team that isn't a realistic contender right now has little business forking over $12M/year on a 1 year contract for a CB no matter how many years he once played for the Jets.  I think you are very mistaken that Revis would have jumped on a deal as you described, but that's my opinion.  That if he would have accepted that, then he wouldn't have required even a 1 year team option in NE to cost them some $25M.  He wants to get back up to $16M asap, and is betting on himself on a 1 year deal in NE while 100% healthy the whole season.  If he'd take $12-13M/year for an extended deal NE could have given him that.  If that's truly what he wanted then he wouldn't have jumped at NE's 1 year deal before taking a few days to shop around as a FA.  Last, I think it is an even bigger reach to believe that Idzik made that call - the call to not call - on his own.  It's a non-move I agree with, and it isn't because I have any affinity for the non-self-made man that is Woody Johnson.

 

I think his draft last year was good with the obvious exceptions of his OL picks.  But they were all just rookies, and one of them (Campbell) was known to be a project from day 1.  Smith was a value pick at a position of obvious need.  Mornhinweg thinks he'll turn out ok (or that's what he sold Eric Decker anyway), and it's tough to expect immediate results from him based on his prior experience, limited snaps with starters last summer, and then an injury that limited him in the final weeks of his first NFL summer.  He'll either improve or he won't.  But I can hardly argue with the value of the pick, particularly in a piss poor QB draft.  The rest of the offseason was filling stop-gap players with his limited resources.  Also a rebuilding team needs draft picks, and it seems he wanted to max out on compensatory picks, which means not signing true UFAs when cut players will do as well (e.g. Willie Colon).

 

This year we really had one MASSIVE need, and that was at receiver.  I say only 1 massive need because it was a unit we needed multiple players for.  For that, you have to do better than just drafting, since the odds of drafting and starting 2 rookie WRs is as close to zero as it is for Mark Sanchez to win the NFL MVP award this season (or ever).  We have other areas of need, but they're a lot easier to find productive veterans for later IMO.  Guard, a 3rd corner, a safety, a 3rd down back better than Powell, a TE...these positions I'd rather see what we can get in the draft from our mountain of picks, before we over-commit to huge dollars for a veteran who isn't a long-term solution anyway (like either corner NE signed) or frankly isn't good enough to justify the dollars it would have taken to get him (Howard, Pettigrew, and maybe DRC).  I'm sure we're not done in free agency yet.  I just think he had a plan to really use his loads of draft picks in a loaded draft to further build the team.  What interrupts that is throwing huge dollars at players who aren't really that good, or who are temporary indulgences like Revis.  So we signed the biggest name available at the biggest need position.  We may yet sign another, but if we don't I really won't get into an uproar with such a deep WR draft coming up in a month.

 

But it's all just opinion.  Some people who come here for a release, or for a break from busy lives, or just for entertainment.  It's annoying to them to see thread after thread about a singular opinion (that we have so much cap room and have no patience to not spend it heavily right away).  How could a person seriously get ANGRY about not signing Austin Howard for over $6M/yr, Brandon Pettigrew for over $4M/yr, or both? Really? That's who some want locked in as the Jets' starter for the next 3 seasons? The same complaint about not signing them will turn into a complaint for having signed & locked into them for so much, and it wouldn't take until mid-season.  Wasn't long ago people were furious with our GM for not sealing the deal on Asomugha. I think we know how that one would have turned out for us.

 

Your last sentence sounds good, but it seems to only be a valid opinion - for critics - if one is critical.  You can know he's terrible but you can't know that he isn't.  It's tough to read this board the past few days and come away with thinking the angry folks feel anything but that.  Maybe I'm just less critical because I don't see the Jets as true contenders until it's known that we have a true asset at the QB position.  Until then, frankly, it's hard for me to get excited about who we supposedly lost out on.  

 

And someday I'll learn to hit the "Post" button in between my thoughts.  Someday.  

 

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eboozer

eboozer

Posted
Posted

I don't like your posting persona very much and feel that if you were a gm you would make alzhemiers al davis and Jerry Jones look amazing.

Lighten up. it was the length of the post I was busting on.... the same as all you "Insiders" were doing when SE posted it. Boy, any new guys question you "old-timers/ holders of all things holy" we catch hell.

 

I guess I'll just have to keep my opinions to myself and join the circle jerk agenda so we won't be called "whiners" when we disagree.

When you "Band of Brothers" bust chops it's fine... someone else does it, crucify them for challenging us.

 

Goodnight. Enjoy the rest of FA and all the great moves the Jets are going to make.

 

Your like Congress.

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Jetsfan80

Jetsfan80

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Lighten up. it was the length of the post I was busting on.... the same as all you "Insiders" were doing when SE posted it. Boy, any new guys question you "old-timers/ holders of all things holy" we catch hell.

 

I guess I'll just have to keep my opinions to myself and join the circle jerk agenda so we won't be called "whiners" when we disagree.

When you "Band of Brothers" bust chops it's fine... someone else does it, crucify them for challenging us.

 

Goodnight. Enjoy the rest of FA and all the great moves the Jets are going to make.

 

Your like Congress.

 

 

Looks it's another Idzik Shill... "SHOCKING" ...

 

In other words you two have no response.  Shocking.

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eboozer

eboozer

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Posted

In other words you two have no response.  Shocking.

I'd be happy to respond, but you have no interest in hearing what I have to say, My point has been made numerous times.... Sperms novel has not changed how I regard Idzik's performance in FA. I'll sit, listen to all you "approved" GM's and all your wisdom and see how it plays out.

 

We'll re-visit this at the end of the season. That will be the ultimate decider of how he performed.

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Maxman

Maxman

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Posted

Lighten up. it was the length of the post I was busting on.... the same as all you "Insiders" were doing when SE posted it. Boy, any new guys question you "old-timers/ holders of all things holy" we catch hell.

 

I guess I'll just have to keep my opinions to myself and join the circle jerk agenda so we won't be called "whiners" when we disagree.

When you "Band of Brothers" bust chops it's fine... someone else does it, crucify them for challenging us.

 

Goodnight. Enjoy the rest of FA and all the great moves the Jets are going to make.

 

Your like Congress.

 

Please don't post about politics.  And it is You are, not your lol.

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slats

slats

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Posted

I agree that we can't give Idzik a final grade, yet. I was hoping that this year we'd see him prove himself and improve the team, but this first week of free agency has been very slow, with Idzik missing out on the majority of players he expressed interest in. There is plenty of time left, and there will be bargains to be had, but like a lot of people, I'd like to see them start coming in. 

 

As for Idzik, I remain largely unconvinced. I thought the Garrard signing was terrible from the onset, the Goodson signing looks like it's following suit, and I'm nowhere near as sold on Ivory as the masses - as I think it's rather idiotic to trot out a starting RB who can't catch a pass. Of his one year stop-gaps, Colon is the only one I'd like to see return. Milliner looks promising, and Richardson is a beast, so it was a good first round last year. Geno's incomplete is directly related to Idzik's. The fact that he did that draft with Tannenbaum's scouting department in place I see as more a negative than a positive, as we don't know yet what Idzik's scouting department will produce. I'm not thrill with Rod Graves. If Winters and/or one of the other OL step up this season, that would be a huge plus.  

 

His executive performance on the Revis trade was top-notch, and he's clearly running the team with money in mind this year, but his job is to supply the team with talent. I no longer expect to be wowed this year, but hopefully he can sign enough in quantity and quality the rest of the way to improve the team. There's still plenty of room for improvement. 

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jgb

jgb

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I agree that we can't give Idzik a final grade, yet. I was hoping that this year we'd see him prove himself and improve the team, but this first week of free agency has been very slow, with Idzik missing out on the majority of players he expressed interest in. There is plenty of time left, and there will be bargains to be had, but like a lot of people, I'd like to see them start coming in. 

 

As for Idzik, I remain largely unconvinced. I thought the Garrard signing was terrible from the onset, the Goodson signing looks like it's following suit, and I'm nowhere near as sold on Ivory as the masses - as I think it's rather idiotic to trot out a starting RB who can't catch a pass. Of his one year stop-gaps, Colon is the only one I'd like to see return. Milliner looks promising, and Richardson is a beast, so it was a good first round last year. Geno's incomplete is directly related to Idzik's. The fact that he did that draft with Tannenbaum's scouting department in place I see as more a negative than a positive, as we don't know yet what Idzik's scouting department will produce. I'm not thrill with Rod Graves. If Winters and/or one of the other OL step up this season, that would be a huge plus.  

 

His executive performance on the Revis trade was top-notch, and he's clearly running the team with money in mind this year, but his job is to supply the team with talent. I no longer expect to be wowed this year, but hopefully he can sign enough in quantity and quality the rest of the way to improve the team. There's still plenty of room for improvement. 

 

Everything we have been hearing is that Idzik has "a number" in his head for each player and won't budge from that. That is all well and good if he has the market valued properly. It does seem that he probably underestimated the corner market a bit, but he is new to being in the Big Chair so one would expect him to fine tune his style. The real positive is that a poor deal for big money can hamper the team for a long time while missing out on a deal doesn't carry quite the same potential downside. Sure you miss an opportunity to put the best team on the field but my point is that I'd rather miss out on a couple good signings if the flipside is we avoid cap hell down the line, until we are ready to go all in. Let's also not forget that we could see some trades and there will be guys cut that we can still make a play for. Incomplete grade is the only way to score this one, for now.

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nycdan

nycdan

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Posted

Adding to what you said, Slats...

 

Unlike MLB, every team in the NFL should be able to spend to the cap and earn a profit.  Because of that, every dollar below the cap that a team doesn't spend decreases its competitiveness over time.  Spending too low could actually force a team to overspend on bad contracts to 'catch up' to the floor in fact, but let's ignore that possibility for now.

 

If the Jets don't use every dollar of their cap, including signing new players and/or restructuring or extending current ones, they are not competing as aggressively as they can be and we, as fans, should hold them accountable (in spirit, if not in deed).  At this point, I don't see how Idzik will be able to productively use the entire cap available to him this season.  That's what is disappointing to me.  I'd rather have a slightly overpaid star FA for this season than unused cap.  Even if the guy leaves next year, we get that cap back and we put a better product on the field this year.  Saving money this year does nothing to improve the team now or later. 

 

From what we've seen, it appears that Idzik chased very few players, ignoring some that could have at least plugged holes in case others he wanted didn't sign.  Would spending a few million of our cap to sign Schwartz, Woodley or even (god forbid) Revis have really been such a bad idea?  I want to support Idzik but this smacks of a guy who wasn't creative enough to look into enough contingency plans to make sure something happened.  It's like signing Decker and chasing Davis exhausted all of his energy. If we only had $5-10MM of cap left, I'd be fine but we have much more than that.

 

I hope I turn out to be wrong, and that some really nice pieces hit the market this summer and we are one of the few teams in position to close on them.  But if this is all about 'not overspending', then it's a bad plan.  Because overspending in this league is still likely to be better than not spending at all. 

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