joewilly12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 What was wrong with your boy Vick the last three years? He was surrounded by your super-star-speed-burner-all-pro receiver Jackson, as well as Maclin (save for this year), McCoy, Celek, Ertz and Riley Cooper and was mediocre at best. In fact, he lost the job to a sophomore. How could he have not performed with all that talent around him? Not my boy I fully support Geno Smith. Michael Vick is a better QB than he was 5 years ago he has a strong accurate arm that he didn't have early on in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboozer Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 1) Yes, it certainly helps, but if the QB is not good to begin with, no amount of probowl receivers will change that. There's more to developing a QB than just putting good WR talent on the field. You need to make sure the players don't miss meetings, attend practice and won't be in the ear of the QB telling him to "get me the ball" (read: Holmes) or other nonsense. I'm not saying Jackson has done any of this, I don't know if the reports are true, but it's harder than saying, just sign a great WR and our QB will develop. 2) I'm sure it played a part, but Jackson was there for the three following seasons where Vick was adequate at best, what's the excuse there? The bottom line is this team is going to go as far as our QB will take them, regardless of who that is. You could have signed Revis, Byrd, Ware, Jackson and Chris Johnson and their impact would be a fraction of what Geno becoming a top 15 QB would do to this team. If Geno stagnated, those five signings might win us an extra game or two at most, but if Geno or Vick plays like a top 15 QB, they become instant payoff contenders. That's why Idzik is playing it smart, build your team and wait until you find a QB to really go all out on spending. I respect that, but, there are several ways to cook a chicken. I don't think our 2 points of view are self exclusive. Couldn't Idzik pad the roster a bit (G, TE, RT, CB) with reasonable contracts while we're trying to figure out if Geno's the man. Most companies have more than 1 product line to protect against failure.... can't we have we keep adding to the talent pool while we are coaching up Geno? That's not to great of a request, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Michael Vick is a better QB than he was 5 years ago he has a strong accurate arm that he didn't have early on in his career. What are you talking about? If he was better than his best years now he wouldn't have lost his starting job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 What are you talking about? If he was better than his best years now he wouldn't have lost his starting job Didn't he lose job due to an injury? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboozer Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Total bullsh*t. You, Joewilly and the rest of your group on this board is a microcosm of our entire fan-base. Go to any other social media setting and you see people pissing and moaning just as you guys do, but on a grander scale. If anything, those who are saying to be patient, wait until the draft rolls around are by far in the minority. But this would of course get in the way of your martyrdom, so by all means, carry on. Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Didn't he lose job due to an injury? No. Lost his job because Foles was better, Foles was hurt too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Not my boy I fully support Geno Smith. Michael Vick is a better QB than he was 5 years ago he has a strong accurate arm that he didn't have early on in his career. Vick had by far his best year as a Pro in 2010. He is now coming off a season where he was a backup for the majority of the season and coming intoa situation where he will have to compete for a starting job. But yeah, he's better than he was 5 years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 No. Lost his job because Foles was better, Foles was hurt too 4 Tweet0 Comments2 Email Print The best indicator of how well Michael Vick's hamstring was progressing last week was his being active for Week 6, despite not playing a down. The fact that the team was willing to activate him as the emergency quarterback suggests he was healthy enough that he could have stepped in if something had happened to Nick Foles. Last week, Vick participated in practice daily, netting a full practice on what was one of the lightest workdays, but he was still out there on the field and not limited to strictly rehab work. Late in the week, Vick sounded positive about his readiness for Week 7, and if he were to ramp up his activity this week without incident, it would seem he should be ready to go by the time Sunday rolls around. But maybe ramping up is the problem. Vick acknowledged to reporters Tuesday that when he tries to "burst," he can still feel it in his leg. That signals a warning that his hamstring may not be ready for the type of demand Vick would likely place on it in a game situation. "I think another week of rehab can put me in position where I start gaining some confidence in it and doing things that I normally do," he added. Coach Chip Kelly has not tipped his hand, saying only when speaking to reporters Monday that health would play a factor in deciding who starts under center this week. Kelly reiterated what we all know about the role Vick's running ability factors into his particular quarterback style. "Mike's legs are a big, important part of his game," Kelly said. "That's part of the decision in terms of putting the whole thing together, in terms of where he is and what he can do and what's his effectiveness." On Tuesday, it was Foles taking first-team reps at practice. Offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur indicated that once both quarterbacks are considered healthy, Kelly will address the issue of who is going to start. "At this point," Schurmur said, "we'll go with Nick, and when Mike's healthy we'll have that discussion." All hamstring injuries can be tricky in terms of identifying when the risk of reinjury is low enough to justify a return to play, setting up the scenario where the Eagles could make the case -- at least for another week -- of resting Vick for health reasons, even if they would simply prefer the idea of Foles at quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I respect that, but, there are several ways to cook a chicken. I don't think our 2 points of view are self exclusive. Couldn't Idzik pad the roster a bit (G, TE, RT, CB) with reasonable contracts while we're trying to figure out if Geno's the man. Most companies have more than 1 product line to protect against failure.... can't we have we keep adding to the talent pool while we are coaching up Geno? That's not to great of a request, is it? He did that. He signed a reasonable contract at RT, stop-gap at RG waiting for guys to develop or to draft someone new, resigned our own TE who the staff is high on, signed a big name WR and still has a bunch of space for future moves. We have 12 picks in the upcoming draft, 6 in the first four rounds, which is in comparison to the 13 total draft picks we had in Tanny's first three drafts. Lets just wait a month or two until you guys go off the deep end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 He did that. He signed a reasonable contract at RT, stop-gap at RG waiting for guys to develop or to draft someone new, resigned our own TE who the staff is high on, signed a big name WR and still has a bunch of space for future moves. We have 12 picks in the upcoming draft, 6 in the first four rounds, which is in comparison to the 13 total draft picks we had in Tanny's first three drafts. Lets just wait a month or two until you guys go off the deep end. 13 draft picks how many will be immediate impact NFL starters and give you what a DeSean Jackson or Chris Johnson gives you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboozer Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 He did that. He signed a reasonable contract at RT, stop-gap at RG waiting for guys to develop or to draft someone new, resigned our own TE who the staff is high on, signed a big name WR and still has a bunch of space for future moves. We have 12 picks in the upcoming draft, 6 in the first four rounds, which is in comparison to the 13 total draft picks we had in Tanny's first three drafts. Lets just wait a month or two until you guys go off the deep end. We're getting no where. We'll try again tomorrow. Same time, same Bat Channel?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 4 Tweet0 Comments2 Email Print If he was performing, he would have gotten the job back once he was healthy. After the first two games, he was completing roughly 54% his passes and leading an anemic offense to a 2-4 record (even with all the weopanz around him!), he was hurt, Foles outplayed him and Kelly never looked back as he knew Vick couldn't do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 4 Tweet0 Comments2 Email Print The best indicator of how well Michael Vick's hamstring was progressing last week was his being active for Week 6, despite not playing a down. The fact that the team was willing to activate him as the emergency quarterback suggests he was healthy enough that he could have stepped in if something had happened to Nick Foles. Last week, Vick participated in practice daily, netting a full practice on what was one of the lightest workdays, but he was still out there on the field and not limited to strictly rehab work. Late in the week, Vick sounded positive about his readiness for Week 7, and if he were to ramp up his activity this week without incident, it would seem he should be ready to go by the time Sunday rolls around. But maybe ramping up is the problem. Vick acknowledged to reporters Tuesday that when he tries to "burst," he can still feel it in his leg. That signals a warning that his hamstring may not be ready for the type of demand Vick would likely place on it in a game situation. "I think another week of rehab can put me in position where I start gaining some confidence in it and doing things that I normally do," he added. Coach Chip Kelly has not tipped his hand, saying only when speaking to reporters Monday that health would play a factor in deciding who starts under center this week. Kelly reiterated what we all know about the role Vick's running ability factors into his particular quarterback style. "Mike's legs are a big, important part of his game," Kelly said. "That's part of the decision in terms of putting the whole thing together, in terms of where he is and what he can do and what's his effectiveness." On Tuesday, it was Foles taking first-team reps at practice. Offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur indicated that once both quarterbacks are considered healthy, Kelly will address the issue of who is going to start. "At this point," Schurmur said, "we'll go with Nick, and when Mike's healthy we'll have that discussion." All hamstring injuries can be tricky in terms of identifying when the risk of reinjury is low enough to justify a return to play, setting up the scenario where the Eagles could make the case -- at least for another week -- of resting Vick for health reasons, even if they would simply prefer the idea of Foles at quarterback. Vick was better 3 years ago. Regardless, can't compare when he's been hurt every season. Foles was much better. 13 draft picks how many will be immediate impact NFL starters and give you what a DeSean Jackson or Chris Johnson gives you? If we can get 4, that's a huge impact. I believe we'll get 5-6 though. Desean and Cj2k can only give you 2-3 tops of maximum numbers, but young guys can give you possibly the same impact, for much, much, much less off the cap. DEPTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 If he was performing, he would have gotten the job back once he was healthy. After the first two games, he was completing roughly 54% his passes and leading an anemic offense to a 2-4 record (even with all the weopanz around him!), he was hurt, Foles outplayed him and Kelly never looked back as he knew Vick couldn't do better. FYI im not a Vick rah rah guy I fully support Geno Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 13 draft picks how many will be immediate impact NFL starters and give you what a DeSean Jackson or Chris Johnson gives you? Well, I'd say that Brandin Cooks could do an adequate job, considering he's faster, quicker and more explosive that Jackson was/is and there's a handful of backs in the draft I'd rather have at this point in time over an aging Johnson. Listen, I like both Jackson and Johnson, but for what they're asking, it's not the prudent move until you know what your QB situation is. This is not to mention the rookies will cost a fraction of what the FAs will and if they bust out, won't leave you on the hook with $9 million per. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 We're getting no where. We'll try again tomorrow. Same time, same Bat Channel?? Nah, we'll try again in May. I can't argue these short-sighted viewpoints much longer, we'll see where the team stands after another month and a full dozen picks in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboozer Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Nah, we'll try again in May. I can't argue these short-sighted viewpoints much longer, we'll see where the team stands after another month and a full dozen picks in the draft. It's a date. Come May, You'll understand my disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 We can't find a back to get 3.9 ypc in the draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I feel like im talking to these guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 1) Yes, it certainly helps, but if the QB is not good to begin with, no amount of probowl receivers will change that. There's more to developing a QB than just putting good WR talent on the field. You need to make sure the players don't miss meetings, attend practice and won't be in the ear of the QB telling him to "get me the ball" (read: Holmes) or other nonsense. I'm not saying Jackson has done any of this, I don't know if the reports are true, but it's harder than saying, just sign a great WR and our QB will develop. 2) I'm sure it played a part, but Jackson was there for the three following seasons where Vick was adequate at best, what's the excuse there? The bottom line is this team is going to go as far as our QB will take them, regardless of who that is. You could have signed Revis, Byrd, Ware, Jackson and Chris Johnson and their impact would be a fraction of what Geno becoming a top 15 QB would do to this team. If Geno stagnated, those five signings might win us an extra game or two at most, but if Geno or Vick plays like a top 15 QB, they become instant payoff contenders. That's why Idzik is playing it smart, build your team and wait until you find a QB to really go all out on spending. a competent qb will have the biggest impact on the field, but you can win without one. look no further than 2009 & 2010. a gm's job is to make the team better at all times, not waite for a qb to become franchise caliber. hell that might not happen anytime soon, or even ever. idziks job this offseason was to 1. improve the oline, 2. improve the wr corps, 3. improve the tight end position, 4. improve the back up qb position on offense. on defense 5. improve the cb position ,and 6. improve the safety position. 1. idzik tried & failed. 2. idzik succeeded. 3. idzik tried & failed 4. idzik succeeded 5. idzik tried & failed 6. not really sure if idzik tried or not(thought there was interest with ward). idzik failed not really broken up about missing out on all of the players idzik was after. there are still many ways to upgrade the roster besides the draft. idziks trials and errors are just that. he is a young gm learning the ropes. he was bound to make mistakes and he has made some already. his inexperience has shown. do I want him fired? no. I think if he could do it all over again, things would be different as I think they will be next year. but to crown this guy the king of new York and belittle anybody that disagrees, well I am not going there, either. he has made some good moves and some bad ones. hopefully the young gm will learn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 a competent qb will have the biggest impact on the field, but you can win without one. look no further than 2009 & 2010. a gm's job is to make the team better at all times, not waite for a qb to become franchise caliber. hell that might not happen anytime soon, or even ever. idziks job this offseason was to 1. improve the oline, 2. improve the wr corps, 3. improve the tight end position, 4. improve the back up qb position on offense. on defense 5. improve the cb position ,and 6. improve the safety position. 1. idzik tried & failed. 2. idzik succeeded. 3. idzik tried & failed 4. idzik succeeded 5. idzik tried & failed 6. not really sure if idzik tried or not(thought there was interest with ward). idzik failed not really broken up about missing out on all of the players idzik was after. there are still many ways to upgrade the roster besides the draft. idziks trials and errors are just that. he is a young gm learning the ropes. he was bound to make mistakes and he has made some already. his inexperience has shown. do I want him fired? no. I think if he could do it all over again, things would be different as I think they will be next year. but to crown this guy the king of new York and belittle anybody that disagrees, well I am not going there, either. he has made some good moves and some bad ones. hopefully the young gm will learn No further than 2009 and 2010? I want nothing to do with a team that was built by mortgaging draft picks and signing high price free agents to surround an inept QB in order to just get us to the playoffs. I want Idzik to build a team that's capable of sustained success and you cannot have sustained success without a competent QB. So until he has that, I don't care if he signs zero free agents, because breaking the bank for a second #1 CB is a luxury, not a necessity to build a winning team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSJets Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I really don't get all of the Manish hatred... Yeah, now that's a ******* surprise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj meadowlands Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Yeah, now that's a ******* surprise LOL So Fla has morphed into such a whiner it's no wonder he sympathizes with Manish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 No further than 2009 and 2010? I want nothing to do with a team that was built by mortgaging draft picks and signing high price free agents to surround an inept QB in order to just get us to the playoffs. I want Idzik to build a team that's capable of sustained success and you cannot have sustained success without a competent QB. So until he has that, I don't care if he signs zero free agents, because breaking the bank for a second #1 CB is a luxury, not a necessity to build a winning team. I am sure you were all choked up watching a team that tanny built irresponsibly win 4 road playoff games and playing in 2 conference championship games. must of been brutal for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I am sure you were all choked up watching a team that tanny built irresponsibly win 4 road playoff games and playing in 2 conference championship games. must of been brutal for you Not at all, but they were all road games.You kinda knew sh*t was going to go south. The 2010 offseason stunk going into 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I am sure you were all choked up watching a team that tanny built irresponsibly win 4 road playoff games and playing in 2 conference championship games. must of been brutal for you I enjoyed those wins as much as the next guy, but I'm also able to learn from the mistakes. You think if Napoleon could do it again, he wouldn't say "ya know what, as much as I loved the ride, I own the vast majority of Europe, have a big swiss bank account, let's sit back, grab a beer and live off the interest instead of being exiled to that tiny f*cking island where I'd count the days until my death." I want to get back to the playoffs, but I want to do it repeatedly, which you do by not mortgaging the future like Tanny did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSJets Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 LOL So Fla has morphed into such a whiner it's no wonder he sympathizes with Manish Pretty much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I am sure you were all choked up watching a team that tanny built irresponsibly win 4 road playoff games and playing in 2 conference championship games. must of been brutal for you Brutal is having a grand total of one draft pick from 2008-2010 on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I enjoyed those wins as much as the next guy, but I'm also able to learn from the mistakes. You think if Napoleon could do it again, he wouldn't say "ya know what, as much as I loved the ride, I own the vast majority of Europe, have a big swiss bank account, let's sit back, grab a beer and live off the interest instead of being exiled to that tiny f*cking island where I'd count the days until my death." I want to get back to the playoffs, but I want to do it repeatedly, which you do by not mortgaging the future like Tanny did. God fights on the side with the best artillery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I know I'm a little late to this party, but did I seriously read a post in this thread talking about the supposed clear regression of a unit that lost one starter (who was awful last year mind you), 5+ months before the start of the season? That has to be one of the most asininely idiotic things ever posted on this board, which is really saying something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboozer Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 God fights on the side with the best artillery Shock and Awe!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 fwiw bill polian gave the Cumberland signing a higher grade than DRC booze, you expect to see us all cry about how the team didn't do enough in FA in spetember, I expect you to see in september how silly it is to declare the off season a failure in march Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Maybe I'm being a baby, but I root for a team that has missed the playoffs for three straight years, finished one game from a playoff spot, had glaring needs in the secondary and at receiver and one of the best cap situations in football but is basically punting the season for some free agent bonanza that may or may not materialize next year or the year after when our GM will be FORCED to spend copious amounts of money to just meet the bare minimum standards set by the NFL. Should I BE doing cartwheels? Such a stupid statement. The money would be spent on retaining our YOUNG draft picks for their second contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 God fights on the side with the best artillery Or on the side of those who shoot best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 God fights on the side with the best artillery I just quoted Voltaire... on JN. I'm gonna go take a lap and sleep this one off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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