Francesa- "Woody should ask the league office to help find him a GM"

[jgb]

yeah if you ask the NFL for help i guarantee you get a recommendation to hire someone just to fill some quota

[Warfish]

Yep, your being offered a job that pays 10x what your currently making, you know you will never be offered this position again, but your going to dictate your terms to the owner

 

Seems the other candidates did just that.

 

And Idzik's decision not to.....has the entire fanbase wanting him fired after two years, never having hired his own guy.

[Warfish]

How has this translated here...

 

I would bet everything I own it works exactly the same in New York, with Ryan (or M.M.) having "final say" on picks and players.

[Matt39]

Good question. From day one that Idzik arrived it was clear that Rex had been neutered, maybe for good reason?

 

Problem with that dynamic is Carroll seems to have a grasp of selecting players while Rex...

[JustInFudge]

The General Manager......unless over-ruled by the Owner.

 

Now, between woody and Idzik, who do you think mandated we keep Rex Ryan and Terry Bradway on staff after hiring Idzik?

 

if anything, Idzik should be fired for not having the stones to say "No Woody.  if I have to keep these guys, I'd prefer to not have this job" as (it certainly seems) a number of other candidates told Woody, and hence never got offers.

 

I dont pretend to know whats going on behind the scenes but obviously Woody forced Rex on Idzik.  Who's decision was it to retain him?  I dunno.  I think Rex might have won over Idzik last season by making a completely stripped down roster who never had a chance at competing, compete.

 

Either way, the idea of hiring a Football guy as a GM, is that a guy like that wont allow Woody to mandate who stays and who goes because that individual has earned their stripes in the league, unlike Idzik.  And I dont think there is a single person here who thinks a GM operates independently from the rest of his staff.  Or lone-wolf as you described.  

 

I'm confident we all agree, the whole thing needs to be blown up and start over.  I'd like it to be with someone who knows something about the game. So that person can pick his scouting team and Head Coach.  Not a cap guy who's never made a personnel decision in his life.

 

Here's what I fear; the Jets retain Idzik for 2 more years.  He picks his coach, which is frightening.  He gets 2 more drafts, which is frightening.  The team still sucks or possibly gets ever worse and then in 2 years, we're looking for a new GM and a new Head Coach and the cycle continues.

 

FIRE THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  And get a Football who can tell Woody to STFU and get out of the way.

[Matt39]

I would bet everything I own it works exactly the same in New York, with Ryan (or M.M.) having "final say" on picks and players.

 

Im sure it's similar. Idzik's handing over a  cheap Chinese takeout menu and Rex is picking fried cat.

[T0mShane]

Heard the rant. Seemed to be mocking Woody more than blasting Idzik. He actually said Idzik could be fine in the role of a Team President as long as he was buffered by a personnel man.

[imshot]

I believe the league recommended George Young to the Giants years ago, that worked out pretty good.

[SayNoToDMC]

Why ask the league to do it for free when you have Korn Ferry on retainer?

[JustInFudge]

I would bet everything I own it works exactly the same in New York, with Ryan (or M.M.) having "final say" on picks and players.

 

I'd take that bet.  You're crazy if you think Rex felt comfortable entering the season with the corners he has and Geno as the starter, coaching for his job.  Idzik's first move on the job, trade the best player on the team and the player Rex valued the most.  Come'on man.  I get your on a mission to shut all the Rex defenders up or whatever, but this is just being naive. 

 

Rex would have started Vick, brought Revis back and Cro and probably even Sanchez for that matter and no way in hell he would have entered the season with 2 fringe roster players at corner, the position that makes his Defense click, with Rodgers, Stafford, Cutler, Rivers, Manning and Brady on the schedule before the bye week.

[flgreen]

Seems the other candidates did just that.

 

And Idzik's decision not to.....has the entire fanbase wanting him fired after two years, never having hired his own guy.

 

The only candidate I remember the rumors saying turned down the Jets was Tom Gamble.  He also turned down Tampa, and Miami.

 

Seems like he just doesn't want to be a GM at this point in time

[Matt39]

Heard the rant. Seemed to be mocking Woody more than blasting Idzik. He actually said Idzik could be fine in the role of a Team President as long as he was buffered by a personnel man.

 

Which we'd all be fine with...I've been supportive of Idzik's method for the most part but the deer in headlights look yesterday was bad.

[Matt39]

I'd take that bet.  You're crazy if you think Rex felt comfortable entering the season with the corners he has and Geno as the starter, coaching for his job.  Idzik's first move on the job, trade the best player on the team and the player Rex valued the most.  Come'on man.  I get your on a mission to shut all the Rex defenders up or whatever, but this is just being naive. 

 

Rex would have started Vick, brought Revis back and Cro and probably even Sanchez for that matter and no way in hell he would have entered the season with 2 fringe roster players at corner, the position that makes his Defense click, with Rodgers, Stafford, Cutler, Rivers, Manning and Brady on the schedule before the bye week.

 

I think everyone's included in on the draft....when defense is selected it's coming from Rex and Thurman...offense the scouts have a heavy hand in which have been awful for years now)...and Jalen Saunders was hand picked by someone who needs to be fired yesterday.

 

In the book it seemed like the jets were positioned this way. Wilkerson was Pettines guy, Wilson was Bradways guy, Coples was Rex, Hill was Tannebaum...doesn't seem like much has changed.

[SayNoToDMC]

Heard the rant. Seemed to be mocking Woody more than blasting Idzik. He actually said Idzik could be fine in the role of a Team President as long as he was buffered by a personnel man.

 

I also agree that Idzik would be fine as a glorified accountant. Tanny would have been also but the problem with our franchise, starting with the owner is everything is ass backwards. We fire a coach in Mangini but keep a GM who was meant to be his puppet/cap guy, hire a coach with ADHD and wants a player cause his name is cool and he saw him blow up a linebacker he was watching till he lost his focus. Fire the GM who shouldn't have been a GM under a coach who had no business in personnel decisions but keep the coach and force the new GM who's an accountant to work with him while our main personnel guy is still Terry ******* Bradway who's career highlight after 10+ years is leaking to the press about that one time he liked Russell Wilson.

[Warfish]

Either way, the idea of hiring a Football guy as a GM, is that a guy like that wont allow Woody to mandate who stays and who goes because that individual has earned their stripes in the league, unlike Idzik.

 

I'm open minded.

 

Can you give me a current-generation example (i.e. NOT Charlie Casserly) of this "Football Guy/Owner dominating" person who is or will be available at the end of 2014?

[OuttaSightPF]

First mistake, taking anything Francessa says seriously.

 

He's piling on.  No different than his usual schtick, only now, with us in the toilet, it gains a resonance and is taken seriously far more than it should be.

 

Francessa would say the same thing even if we were 4-4 right now, or 6-2 right now.

 

No owner should ever "ask the NFL to "help" find a GM", the entire idea is a ******* joke.

 

The entire "football guy" vs. "Business guy" is wrongheaded.  Both guys will pick whomever the scouts and coaches say is the best guy to take, often leaning one way (scouts) or the other (coaches) if disagreement exists.

 

No NFL GM is singlehandedly evaluating and picking talent on his lonesome, they ALL depend, entirely, on their talent evaluators, i.e. coaches and scouts.

 

Maybe the guy who needs fired most, more than anyone else, is "Head Scout" Terry "Failed GM" Bradway?

No this is dead balls accurate. Not anything that fat pant load says

+1

[SoFlaJets]

Heard the rant. Seemed to be mocking Woody more than blasting Idzik. He actually said Idzik could be fine in the role of a Team President as long as he was buffered by a personnel man.

That's because Woody Johnson IS the problem bro. He doesn't belong in a position of ownership because he has too many other ventures cutting into his time. How can any one person run a NFL team, a major corporation like Johnson & Johnson, a hospital as well as being hands on building the Florham Park facility and be a player in National as well as local politics? You can't and  he can't either. Jack of all trades master of none seems to be the case with the Jets owner. George Steinbrenner owned the Yankees and also a ship building enterprise in Tampa but when baseball season rolled around he was a baseball guy first and foremost

 

You know Woody Johnson telling us 2 years ago what THE most important thing going on in his life was; (helping to make sure that Mitt Romney beats Obama) DURING FOOTBALL season, and a bad football season to boot, and the owner of the New York Jets had bigger fish to fry, that is when it became all too clear to me exactly WHAT the problem is and where they all stes from, and it had NOTHING to do with my personal political ideology, it was eye-opening and I'm not the only one that saw it either. You guys notice how right around that time a whole lot of the old timers as far as Jets fans started to disappear?

[SoFlaJets]

You know someday when Brady and Belichick both retire (probably at the same time) I really want to read the book that Belichick is going to write. I am really curious as to what was behind the scrawled on napkin resigning of him from the Jets, why DIDN'T he want to work for Woody Johnson? I think I already know the answer to that question. 

[Matt39]

I'm open minded.

 

Can you give me a current-generation example (i.e. NOT Charlie Casserly) of this "Football Guy/Owner dominating" person who is or will be available at the end of 2014?

 

You'd have to find that guy as he's on someone's scouting dept...obvious first move would be to compile a list of names of scouts of franchises who have built strong rosters over the last 5 years.

[Matt39]

That's because Woody Johnson IS the problem bro. He doesn't belong in a position of ownership because he has too many other ventures cutting into his time. How can any one person run a NFL team, a major corporation like Johnson & Johnson, a hospital as well as being hands on building the Florham Park facility and be a player in National as well as local politics? You can't and  he can't either. Jack of all trades master of none seems to be the case with the Jets owner. George Steinbrenner owned the Yankees and also a ship building enterprise in Tampa but when baseball season rolled around he was a baseball guy first and foremost

 

You know Woody Johnson telling us 2 years ago what THE most important thing going on in his life was; (helping to make sure that Mitt Romney beats Obama) DURING FOOTBALL season, and a bad football season to boot, and the owner of the New York Jets had bigger fish to fry, that is when it became all too clear to me exactly WHAT the problem is and where they all stes from, and it had NOTHING to do with my personal political ideology, it was eye-opening and I'm not the only one that saw it either. You guys notice how right around that time a whole lot of the old timers as far as Jets fans started to disappear?

 

Woody could be out saving the whales or playing drums in Jim Dolans band for all I care or ....but for gods sakes take some time to hire a President of Football Ops/GM who knows football.

[Cyberjet]

You'd have to find that guy as he's on someone's scouting dept...obvious first move would be to compile a list of names of scouts of franchises who have built strong rosters over the last 5 years.

Seattle Seahawks

[Matt39]

Seattle Seahawks

 

Seems like Carroll has been the one most involved in building that roster.

[MatthewPLP]

First mistake, taking anything Francessa says seriously.

 

He's piling on.  No different than his usual schtick, only now, with us in the toilet, it gains a resonance and is taken seriously far more than it should be.

 

Francessa would say the same thing even if we were 4-4 right now, or 6-2 right now.

 

No owner should ever "ask the NFL to "help" find a GM", the entire idea is a ******* joke.

 

The entire "football guy" vs. "Business guy" is wrongheaded.  Both guys will pick whomever the scouts and coaches say is the best guy to take, often leaning one way (scouts) or the other (coaches) if disagreement exists.

 

No NFL GM is singlehandedly evaluating and picking talent on his lonesome, they ALL depend, entirely, on their talent evaluators, i.e. coaches and scouts.

 

Maybe the guy who needs fired most, more than anyone else, is "Head Scout" Terry "Failed GM" Bradway?

 

 

I guess you rather hear that everything is FINE AND DANDY in Jet land. Buddy wake up and smell the coffee.

[ylekram]

Seattle Seahawks

who on seattle do you like?

[HessStation]

Heard the rant. Seemed to be mocking Woody more than blasting Idzik. He actually said Idzik could be fine in the role of a Team President as long as he was buffered by a personnel man.

 

Cute. Give him a corner office next to Bradway?

[JustInFudge]

I think everyone's included in on the draft....when defense is selected it's coming from Rex and Thurman...offense the scouts have a heavy hand in which have been awful for years now)...and Jalen Saunders was hand picked by someone who needs to be fired yesterday.

 

In the book it seemed like the jets were positioned this way. Wilkerson was Pettines guy, Wilson was Bradways guy, Coples was Rex, Hill was Tannebaum...doesn't seem like much has changed.

 

This makes sense.  Rex and MM having the final say does not.

 

I'm open minded.

 

Can you give me a current-generation example (i.e. NOT Charlie Casserly) of this "Football Guy/Owner dominating" person who is or will be available at the end of 2014?

 

Casserly is name I liked before Idzik but whatevs.  I'm not going to sit here and act like I know but I dont think its unreasonable to have a profile of what you would like to see running the show.

 

Some names I've heard that could meet the profile:

 

Bill Polian and his former head of scouting Tom Gamble.  2 solid names.

 

I know DeCosta turned down interviews for a promotion with the Ravens, but I'd revisit that.  

Terry McDonough is a guy I like who's led scouting for the Cardinals.  I like Steve Kleim when Idzik as hired too.

[Warfish]

You'd have to find that guy as he's on someone's scouting dept...obvious first move would be to compile a list of names of scouts of franchises who have built strong rosters over the last 5 years.

 

Do you believe that was no, in fact, done by the consultants during the last GM search?

[Warfish]

I guess you rather hear that everything is FINE AND DANDY in Jet land. Buddy wake up and smell the coffee.

 

Lol, no.

 

Everything is far from fine and dandy, same as it was LAST YEAR.

 

The first step to correcting it is to fire the Coaching Staff, and allow our GM to hire his own guy (in my view).

 

Frankly, middle of year 2 is far too early to judge Idzik (although that horrific presser makes me want him fired as well).

[JustInFudge]

You'd have to find that guy as he's on someone's scouting dept...obvious first move would be to compile a list of names of scouts of franchises who have built strong rosters over the last 5 years.

 

Now that you mention it, the Packers Brian Gutekunst was mentioned in years past...even Alonzo Highsmith.

[Matt39]

Do you believe that was no, in fact, done by the consultants during the last GM search?

No because the GM was forced to keep Rex. Idzik wasn't on anyone's radar.

[RSJ]

Do you believe that was no, in fact, done by the consultants during the last GM search?

Probably was and the list was probably scaled way back after the candidates found out they needed to keep Rex. That's how we wound up with the dollar store GM we did.

[Warfish]

No because the GM was forced to keep Rex. Idzik wasn't on anyone's radar.

 

So who is "on everyones radar" now, and is a Football Guy?

[RSJ]

Btw, as I've mentioned a million times already - but no one wants to listen. If you let idzik stay you are going to have a problem finding a good head coaching candidate, in the same way you had a problem finding a Gm before. I said before idzik was selected that this was not a good job and probably the worst in the NFL at the time. I was criticized for saying it at the time. The decision to accept a job as a head coach is the culmination of a guys entire life's work, they are not going to jump in bed with a GM who may get fired in two years and an owner that is a complete idiot. Just like the GM job at the time Idzik took it, It will be the worst job in the NFL if it is Idzik doing the hiring.

[JustInFudge]

If anyone is really interested.  Here's a recent article on top GM candidates:

 

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Top-five-general-manager-candidates.html

 

and one from the Dolphags when they were looking to replace Jeff Ireland:

 

http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/1/8/5287948/jeff-ireland-fired-dolphins-potential-new-general-manager-candidates

[T0mShane]

 

Rex would have started Vick, brought Revis back and Cro and probably even Sanchez for that matter.

 

 

So many missed opportunities here!