JetFreak89 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I take Cobb over Harvin every day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Aaron Rodgers disagrees with you. We shall see what FA contracts Cobb commands, also watch who seahawks try to gameplan against Jordy or Cobb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 We shall see what FA contracts Cobb commands, also watch who seahawks try to gameplan against Jordy or Cobb. Rodgers is on record saying Nelson is the best receiver he's ever played with. Cobb isn't even the #1 receiver on his own team; Nelson is. Contract size is a poor indicator of who is better. Particularly since Nelson never hit the open market so it's not an apples to apples comparison. The only apples to apples comparison between the two, contract-wise, is that each was due to hit free agency in 2015. Green Bay chose to extend Nelson over Cobb (despite Cobb having a longer future ahead of him, at 5 years younger). I'm sure if left up to Rodgers he'd rather have both back in 2015. Also, what Seattle does in an upcoming game has little to do with it; they gameplan based on how Green Bay specifically matches up with their team. Just like it appeared Dallas was more concerned about Nelson, putting their (most talented, but admittedly hit or miss) top corner on him. Just like New England put Revis on Nelson and Kyle Arrington on Cobb. BFD. Gun to my head, I expect to see Sherman matching up against Nelson more than vs. Cobb. They're also just different types of receivers anyway. Nelson is an outside receiver and more of a deep threat. Cobb is a slot receiver. They don't typically break the bank in terms of contracts (see Victor Cruz, who didn't exactly have Aaron Rodgers tossing it to him and still put up numbers, and once the phony $ is removed he got under $8M per). That doesn't mean every receiver who got more than Cruz was better either. It's no knock on Cobb, who I'd LOVE to have on the Jets pick up if he's available (and willing to come to a team with no QB). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32EBoozer Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 If the Jets offer Harvin a 3 yr. $24 mil ($16 mil guaranteed) contract, would any other team be willing to match that? I hate to think of us giving up a 4th round pick for Harvin. I wonder how the trade was worded. If he's on the roster at the beginning of the new league year, we give up this years 4th? If we do keep Harvin, can you really afford to take an Amari Cooper at #6 (no way). Tough decision. Idzik screwed the pooch on that deal. Looking to save his job I guess. Rodgers is on record saying Nelson is the best receiver he's ever played with. Cobb isn't even the #1 receiver on his own team; Nelson is. Contract size is a poor indicator of who is better. Particularly since Nelson never hit the open market so it's not an apples to apples comparison. The only apples to apples comparison between the two, contract-wise, is that each was due to hit free agency in 2015. Green Bay chose to extend Nelson over Cobb (despite Cobb having a longer future ahead of him, at 5 years younger). I'm sure if left up to Rodgers he'd rather have both back in 2015. Also, what Seattle does in an upcoming game has little to do with it; they gameplan based on how Green Bay specifically matches up with their team. Just like it appeared Dallas was more concerned about Nelson, putting their (most talented, but admittedly hit or miss) top corner on him. Just like New England put Revis on Nelson and Kyle Arrington on Cobb. BFD. Gun to my head, I expect to see Sherman matching up against Nelson more than vs. Cobb. They're also just different types of receivers anyway. Nelson is an outside receiver and more of a deep threat. Cobb is a slot receiver. They don't typically break the bank in terms of contracts (see Victor Cruz, who didn't exactly have Aaron Rodgers tossing it to him and still put up numbers, and once the phony $ is removed he got under $8M per). That doesn't mean every receiver who got more than Cruz was better either. It's no knock on Cobb, who I'd LOVE to have on the Jets pick up if he's available (and willing to come to a team with no QB). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 If the Jets offer Harvin a 3 yr. $24 mil ($16 mil guaranteed) contract, would any other team be willing to match that? I hate to think of us giving up a 4th round pick for Harvin. I wonder how the trade was worded. If he's on the roster at the beginning of the new league year, we give up this years 4th? If we do keep Harvin, can you really afford to take an Amari Cooper at #6 (no way). Tough decision. Idzik screwed the pooch on that deal. Looking to save his job I guess. I don't think anyone would match that, but it doesn't mean it won't happen. On the one hand, the Jets are flush with cap space. If they want Harvin he'll be integral enough to the offense for the next 2-4 upcoming seasons and they should re-sign him without worrying about a hit or miss 4th round pick (who is statistically unlikely to become even an average starter). As you point out, with Cooper, it means we would then spend the 6th overall pick on a different position. I don't see us having Decker locked up, Kerley locked up, then locking up Harvin, and THEN drafting Cooper (or another WR) #6 overall. It's possible, though. They could just look to unload Kerley or keep him for 1 last year (overpaying still more) and then move Harvin to the slot where he's better-suited anyway, with Cooper and Decker outside and Amaro at TE. On paper a damn dangerous receiving group. If they have it in their minds to draft Cooper if he's available, but would like Harvin back if he's not, then I think they have to just sit on their hands and bit the bullet on giving up a 4th instead of a 6th: If Cooper's there, draft him and cut Harvin at the end of the summer if a trade partner can't be found by then. (Any pick is better than no pick at that point.) If Cooper isn't there, then float a restructuring offer to Harvin, or just overpay him the $10.5M he's otherwise due. There's an outside chance one of the 2 guys we took in '14 take a giant leap forward in which case he's expendable by the end of August. Also a chance we take a WR after round 1 who is on fire as a rookie all summer long, with the same result. But that 4th rounder is still gone and the $6M or so we paid him last year was officially a total waste. Otherwise we say cut bait now and see what happens. Also depends on what other WRs actually reach free agency. But if we draft a QB at #6 or with our high 2nd, it may be worth it for the new kid just to have Harvin on the roster for 1 more year, and chalk it up as a one-time $2-3M extra cap space as an investment in developing a young QB. We've overpaid more than $3M in a season on one player plenty of times before and barring a miracle we will do so again (as will all teams). Small potatoes if it works out in developing a franchise QB. Sorry for the long reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I don't think anyone would match that, but it doesn't mean it won't happen. On the one hand, the Jets are flush with cap space. If they want Harvin he'll be integral enough to the offense for the next 2-4 upcoming seasons and they should re-sign him without worrying about a hit or miss 4th round pick (who is statistically unlikely to become even an average starter). As you point out, with Cooper, it means we would then spend the 6th overall pick on a different position. I don't see us having Decker locked up, Kerley locked up, then locking up Harvin, and THEN drafting Cooper (or another WR) #6 overall. It's possible, though. They could just look to unload Kerley or keep him for 1 last year (overpaying still more) and then move Harvin to the slot where he's better-suited anyway, with Cooper and Decker outside and Amaro at TE. On paper a damn dangerous receiving group. If they have it in their minds to draft Cooper if he's available, but would like Harvin back if he's not, then I think they have to just sit on their hands and bit the bullet on giving up a 4th instead of a 6th: If Cooper's there, draft him and cut Harvin at the end of the summer if a trade partner can't be found by then. (Any pick is better than no pick at that point.) If Cooper isn't there, then float a restructuring offer to Harvin, or just overpay him the $10.5M he's otherwise due. There's an outside chance one of the 2 guys we took in '14 take a giant leap forward in which case he's expendable by the end of August. Also a chance we take a WR after round 1 who is on fire as a rookie all summer long, with the same result. But that 4th rounder is still gone and the $6M or so we paid him last year was officially a total waste. Otherwise we say cut bait now and see what happens. Also depends on what other WRs actually reach free agency. But if we draft a QB at #6 or with our high 2nd, it may be worth it for the new kid just to have Harvin on the roster for 1 more year, and chalk it up as a one-time $2-3M extra cap space as an investment in developing a young QB. We've overpaid more than $3M in a season on one player plenty of times before and barring a miracle we will do so again (as will all teams). Small potatoes if it works out in developing a franchise QB. Sorry for the long reply. I can say with 99.9% confidence that Cooper will be gone by #4, when the combine comes he will run an EZ 4.4 and quite possibly a 4.35. Maybe I should send an email lol. This kid wants to be the best and nobody can outwork him. As a Bama fan for some 51 yrs, outside of JWN, he is by far the best Bama player I have ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Cobb missed like half the season last year. Harvin wasn't injury prone his first three years. I don't really buy into injury prone sh*t. Unless they have like a degenerative condition or keep hurting the same body part repeatedly, it's mostly just bad luck. There are a ton of guys once labeled as "injury prone" that have proven to be highly durable players (DeMaryius Thomas, Frank Gore, and Matthew Stafford immediately spring to mind). Cobb's a better receiver than Percy is imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 If the Jets offer Harvin a 3 yr. $24 mil ($16 mil guaranteed) contract, would any other team be willing to match that? I hate to think of us giving up a 4th round pick for Harvin. I wonder how the trade was worded. If he's on the roster at the beginning of the new league year, we give up this years 4th? If we do keep Harvin, can you really afford to take an Amari Cooper at #6 (no way). Tough decision. Idzik screwed the pooch on that deal. Looking to save his job I guess. It'll be a matter of what Harvin feels he can get on the open market. Another major factor will be his potential production - which historically has to be better on just about any other NFL team. I think he's currently overpaid. Significantly. But if he's gonna take a pay cut to play anywhere, he'd be smart to take it where he can show off his skills and cash in again. The Jets are where WRs go to die. For the Jets, they have to think about how much money they want to throw at the WR position, and how realistic Amari Cooper is at #6 - if that's something they want to do. Especially with the QB position so unsettled. If they pay Harvin, or dump him and pay another WR big money, I'd think it would have to mean that Cooper was off the table. If I'm trying to fix this team in a hurry, my biggest splash would be at CB. Biggest need on the team, Milliner and McDougle are both coming off serious injuries, both futures are uncertain. Invest in the OL. Get some speed at LB. And of course, the QB. So many other needs ahead of WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Nice post. Only thing about Jeremy Kerely is we just signed him to another contract before the season ended I would almost b3 on board with going LT with #6.. maybe even moving down and switching D'Brick to RT. DGB is one hell of a receiver and personally has a higher ceiling imo to Cooper and with his track record outside the facility.. he's a risk but a must have in the 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I can say with 99.9% confidence that Cooper will be gone by #4, when the combine comes he will run an EZ 4.4 and quite possibly a 4.35. Maybe I should send an email lol. This kid wants to be the best and nobody can outwork him. As a Bama fan for some 51 yrs, outside of JWN, he is by far the best Bama player I have ever seen. You can't really say that with any confidence until the combine (and likely pro days) are behind us. People have run slower than expected 40 times before at the combine - some even refuse to run out of fear of dropping their stock - and plenty of NFL teams focus on that one metric. Especially in the absence of Cooper possessing a 6'3" to 6'5" tall frame. I think there's an excellent chance he's gone before our pick, but the combine shuffles things up a lot. It may not be because he drops either, so much as another player or two (or more) shooting up higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 You can't really say that with any confidence until the combine (and likely pro days) are behind us. People have run slower than expected 40 times before at the combine - some even refuse to run out of fear of dropping their stock - and plenty of NFL teams focus on that one metric. Especially in the absence of Cooper possessing a 6'3" to 6'5" tall frame. I think there's an excellent chance he's gone before our pick, but the combine shuffles things up a lot. It may not be because he drops either, so much as another player or two (or more) shooting up higher. I can say it with confidence, I may be wrong, he has been timed at Bama in the 4.3's, whether he does it under the combine pressure, remains to be seen. The Kid will blow everyone away during interviews. Never will get in trouble. Work ethic off the charts. Height is overrated, Rice was 6' 2 ran a 4.6 and is greatest to ever play. Coop plays like Rice. Work Ethic is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Nice post. Only thing about Jeremy Kerely is we just signed him to another contract before the season ended I would almost b3 on board with going LT with #6.. maybe even moving down and switching D'Brick to RT. DGB is one hell of a receiver and personally has a higher ceiling imo to Cooper and with his track record outside the facility.. he's a risk but a must have in the 2nd. The franchise LT is generally a safe pick at #6, the problem for the Jets is Brick and what to do with him. He's not a right tackle. You want a mauler in that spot, and Brick is a finesse guy. A quick footed, long armed pass protector. If you grab a tackle that high, he needs to be the mauler that you can put on the right side until you're ready to move on completely from Brick. I know Brick's production has been down, but I think it would improve with a top guard brought in next to him. Free agent guard, draft the big tackle, and the OL is instantly revamped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I can say with 99.9% confidence that Cooper will be gone by #4, when the combine comes he will run an EZ 4.4 and quite possibly a 4.35. Maybe I should send an email lol. This kid wants to be the best and nobody can outwork him. As a Bama fan for some 51 yrs, outside of JWN, he is by far the best Bama player I have ever seen. I'll defer to you as a long time Bama fan,but better than John Hannah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I'll defer to you as a long time Bama fan,but better than John Hannah? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Yes Wow. I did hear Gary Danielson mention that Cooper is the best receiver that he's seen since Larry Fitzgerald, and he sees more college ball than anybody I'm aware of.Certainly more than the Jets scouts, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I can say with 99.9% confidence that Cooper will be gone by #4, when the combine comes he will run an EZ 4.4 and quite possibly a 4.35. Maybe I should send an email lol. This kid wants to be the best and nobody can outwork him. As a Bama fan for some 51 yrs, outside of JWN, he is by far the best Bama player I have ever seen. John Hannah says hi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Wow. I did hear Gary Danielson mention that Cooper is the best receiver that he's seen since Larry Fitzgerald, and he sees more college ball than anybody I'm aware of.Certainly more than the Jets scouts, apparently. I find Danielson great at breaking down players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Cobb isn't getting out of Green Bay. You don't take weapons away from Aaron Rodgers in his prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Cobb isn't getting out of Green Bay. You don't take weapons away from Aaron Rodgers in his prime. Agreed. Just like Dez ain't going anywhere, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Cobb isn't getting out of Green Bay. You don't take weapons away from Aaron Rodgers in his prime. They let James Jones walk last season. Adams and Boykin are both very solid. Rodgers can make either one a lot of money next season. Cobb might get away and I'd heavily prefer him to Harvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 They let James Jones walk last season. Adams and Boykin are both very solid. Rodgers can make either one a lot of money next season. Cobb might get away and I'd heavily prefer him to Harvin. at right price, sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 They let James Jones walk last season. Adams and Boykin are both very solid. Rodgers can make either one a lot of money next season. Cobb might get away and I'd heavily prefer him to Harvin. Yeah, because they had Cobb and Boykin, and were staring at a draft loaded with WRs. I agree though, I'd prefer Cobb to Harvin, slightly. Mostly because of Percy's lockerroom issues and injury history. I just don't see Cobb leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Yeah, because they had Cobb and Boykin, and were staring at a draft loaded with WRs. I agree though, I'd prefer Cobb to Harvin, slightly. Mostly because of Percy's lockerroom issues and injury history. I just don't see Cobb leaving. I don't either, but maybe they really like Abbrederis' grit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I can say it with confidence, I may be wrong, he has been timed at Bama in the 4.3's, whether he does it under the combine pressure, remains to be seen. The Kid will blow everyone away during interviews. Never will get in trouble. Work ethic off the charts. Height is overrated, Rice was 6' 2 ran a 4.6 and is greatest to ever play. Coop plays like Rice. Work Ethic is the same. I read earlier that he claimed (himself) that he timed at or around 4.3 3x. I would love us to pick him up whether he runs that at the combine or not. I'm just saying the combine causes all sorts of movement. Some minor, some major; some justified, and some are just workout warriors. Hard to compare today's players size-wise to players whose heyday was in another era. Klecko was a beastly stud nose tackle at 270 lbs (was still only 275 when he was "fatter"). Today? He wouldn't even be 3rd string as a nose tackle at the pro level (and not a lot of colleges look for 270 lb nose tackles either). Athletes are bigger/stronger/faster today. Training and medicine is better and more advanced. Guys also prepare much harder and much more effectively for the combine than they did in the 80s. Especially once the salaries for rookies got way up there, it became even more of a business move to get selected as highly as possible. Olympic sprinting records don't generally stand for 30 years either; in the last olympics would Carl Lewis take home the gold with a 9.99 time in the 100m? No. While 4.6 or 4.7 certainly wasn't above average WR speed even when Rice came into the league, relative to those covering him it's definitely slower in 2015 than in 1985. In other words, had he come into the league in 2015 he'd still be a guy you want but I wouldn't necessarily expect him to still be the game's best WR ever. Cooper's supposedly 6'1" tall. That's plenty tall for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Straw Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Cobb is better than Jordy and Jordy is a very good player I'll disagree on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
win4ever Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Well this all kinda depends on the price we're going to pay for a WR. We're not going to pay Decker/Harvin/Cobb. That would essentially be either the highest paid trio in the league or very close to it. So, I doubt they invest that kind of money into it. It's either Harvin/Cobb. Cobb is the better player of the two, but Harvin will be cheaper. Most likely Harvin will be willing to take a cheaper deal coming off a bad year as opposed to Cobb, so maybe we can use that money to sure up the OL. I think as others have suggested, I see us going WR in the first or second pick in the draft this year, so maybe we can save some money in that fashion. I'd love to get Dez or Demarius in here, but almost no way either of those teams let the guys get away. The Cowboys will be fine with getting rid of Murray for Dez. And the Broncos will tag Thomas with the franchise tag, which is low enough for a TE that they can then resign Demarius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I'll disagree on this. Both are great WR's, but this Sunday with game on the line, look for Cobb to make the big play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Both are great WR's, but this Sunday with game on the line, look for Cobb to make the big play. that could very well be the case as Sperm noted, Cobb in the slot on fast Seattle track could break a long one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincenzo69 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Cumberland stinks and should be replaced asap, he should have been replaced a year or so ago. Absolutely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincenzo69 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Agreed. Just like Dez ain't going anywhere, either. They already have Cobb replacement Davante Adams and Rodgers can make any wr look good ie James Jones. Cobb would be fine. I would prefer Demariyus Thomas but I doubt Denver lets him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Ditch Harvin. Sign Crabtree. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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